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-eREKTion-PB&Jib looking tempting, how would you describe the hand-flex profile through the ski?
Soft enough to butter with a little effort but sturdy enough for big jumps. I know that's pretty vague but every ski company has a different idea of what a 3 or a 7 flex is, so it's hard to simply give a number.
After hand flexing a pair of Magnus 90's recently I would put them very close to each other in terms of flex.
Damn a commander 98 sounds like it would be a sick little ripper. Might have to cop that ski for my Colorado quiver. How would it hold up as a one ski quiver?
cozzeyDamn a commander 98 sounds like it would be a sick little ripper. Might have to cop that ski for my Colorado quiver. How would it hold up as a one ski quiver?
Maybe on the east coast, but no worry they make a 108 too!
cozzeyDamn a commander 98 sounds like it would be a sick little ripper. Might have to cop that ski for my Colorado quiver. How would it hold up as a one ski quiver?
It's a rad everyday ski. It won't be incredible on a pow day as it is only 98 underfoot. If you were to get one ski for literally everything I'd suggest the 108 for pow as well. However if you're taking it from hardpack to groomers to who knows what then you'll be happy on the 98.
tcurleIt's a rad everyday ski. It won't be incredible on a pow day as it is only 98 underfoot. If you were to get one ski for literally everything I'd suggest the 108 for pow as well. However if you're taking it from hardpack to groomers to who knows what then you'll be happy on the 98.
It seems like the meridian 107 would be a similar but softer ski in comparison to the commander 108. Is that true? I’m thinking that might be a fun allmountain one that’s not as strict as the commander
cozzeyIt seems like the meridian 107 would be a similar but softer ski in comparison to the commander 108. Is that true? I’m thinking that might be a fun allmountain one that’s not as strict as the commander
Yes and no. The Meridian 107 will be ever so slightly softer due to its different construction, but the full rocker nature of it makes it feel significantly more playful since you don't have to flex through any camber. It also has a much more modern recommended mount point of -5cm, compared to the Commander's -8cm.
If you're looking for a big mountain competition ski, or just a ski that can blast through anything at any speed, go with the Commander.
If you're looking for an all mountain ripper that can handle most any situation, but maintains some playfulness and the ability for switch riding on occasion, look at the Meridian 107 or the Deathwish.
zman420PB&Jib seems like the Magnus 102 with a different graphic. Is that true or nah?
Assuming that the Magnus 102 flex caries over from the Magnus 90, they will be a very similar ski, but the PB&J shape has been around for almost a decade now, and the PB&JIB shares the same shape with a more park oriented build.
While it is coming out the same season that the Magnus 102, the PB&JIB is something I've been pushing for for a while now. Traditionally, Moment has made park skis in the mid 80's to low 90's underfoot, and the PB&JIB is our break into the 100+ underfoot park ski category.
nmwninjartTransition looks good to me. Are these only made in the one length of 179 listed on the site?
They will only be made in the 179 length.
J_skisBladezzz are looking awesome this season!
Honestly we're considering shrinking down the entire lineup to snowblade proportions. No more skis over 100cm. Moment Blade Co. Get with it or get outta the way.
SwindleCommander 108 vs the meridian 107 which would be a better one ski quiver?
See above, but both would work great as a one ski quiver and it mostly comes down to the skier.
Commander 108 for the hard charging big mountain rider that has a love for speed and a knack for finding the biggest cliffs on the mountain. Edge hold and a super damp and quiet ride ensure you don't ever have to worry about washing out. More traditional mount point of -8 cm, so definitely a directional ski.
Meridian 107 for the rider that loves a little bit of everything, whether it's speed, bumps, trees, jumps or occasional switch riding. Full rocker makes for a slip and slash ride that'll hold an edge once you tip it over due to the stiff core. More modern mount point of -5 cm, so more of a twin all mountain ski.
Stuff looks awesome. So a 178 Commander 108 has a 19.5M radius and an effective edge of 1345. Can you help someone who doesn't understand much about ski construction understand - how does this ski with little tail rocker have less effective edge than a 172 PB&J? Does this mean it is going to ski short? Also, what's the thinking behind the radius - I thought chargier skis generally came with a longer turn radius and this one seems less than some other Moment models. Does this have something to do with the multiradius sidecut? Just trying to get a sense of how this one skis/turns.
mr.tibblesStuff looks awesome. So a 178 Commander 108 has a 19.5M radius and an effective edge of 1345. Can you help someone who doesn't understand much about ski construction understand - how does this ski with little tail rocker have less effective edge than a 172 PB&J? Does this mean it is going to ski short?
Effective edge refers to the length of edge between the two widest points of the ski, so the rocker doesn't play into this spec. For example, a full rocker ski still has a good amount of effective edge, even though the entire length is rockered. The smaller effective edge on the Commander 178 (vs a PB&J 172) is due to the tip and tail taper. The widest point of the tip and tail on the Commander is closer to the center of the ski when compared to the PB&J, thus making the length of the effective edge shorter.
You can also see an example of this in the Transition 179 vs the Governor 196, in which the Transition has more effective edge because it has virtually no tip or tail taper, while the Governor has a hefty amount of taper at both ends.
The Commander won't feel like a short ski, the stiff core, Titanal and directional shape allow it to charge. Our resident athlete Tyler Curle can attest to this, as he usually rides 190+ cm skis for big mountain, yet felt right at home charging on the Commander 178.
mr.tibblesAlso, what's the thinking behind the radius - I thought chargier skis generally came with a longer turn radius and this one seems less than some other Moment models. Does this have something to do with the multiradius sidecut? Just trying to get a sense of how this one skis/turns.
The 19.5 m turn radius is a combination of a few radii throughout the ski, which all average out to 19.5 m. Charging skis used to have larger turn radii, but that trend has changed recently due to improvements in materials, design and the expansion of taper / rocker combinations. You can see evidence of this by looking at some of the other charging skis out on the market right now:
> Blizzard Bonafide 187: 20 m radius
> Black Crows Navis 187: 19 m radius
> Nordica Enforcer 185: 18.5 m radius
> JSkis Master Blaster 181: 17 m radius
The only one that really stands out to me that isn't following this trend is the ON3P Wrenegade 184, which has a 24 m radius. This is mostly due to the lack of tail taper in the design (If I'm wrong, I'm sure iggyskier's spidey senses will go off and he'll come correct me).
Due to the combination of tip / tail taper, the multi-radius sidecut and the rocker profile of the Commander series, the ski will still be able to make big sweeping turns and charge hard at high speeds, yet maintain an ability to be nimble and quick from turn to turn for those tight chutes and trees. Another benefit to the rocker profile is the ability to kick them sideways without much effort at all, which makes scrubbing speed an easy task.
Overall we're very excited about the Commander series. I generally steer clear of skiing extremely fast and aggressive, and usually stick to tight trees and goofing around on more progressively mounted skis, but after testing the Commander towards the end of last season I might have to change my ways. I'll probably ride that ski more than anything else this coming season as it inspired confidence in me, and for the first time I was suddenly looking for bigger and bigger cliffs to jump off and faster chutes to fly out of every run.
The Commander won't feel like a short ski, the stiff core, Titanal and directional shape allow it to charge. Our resident athlete Tyler Curle can attest to this, as he usually rides 190+ cm skis for big mountain, yet felt right at home charging on the Commander 178.
Can you or Tyler expand on this a bit more to assist me with length decision? In other words, Does TCurle still ride 190s, but felt comofortable on the 178 because of the construction, or has now switched from longer lengths to shorter with the Commander? I'm just shy of 5'11" and 157 lbs if that helps with any suggestions.
Chrisc70The Commander won't feel like a short ski, the stiff core, Titanal and directional shape allow it to charge. Our resident athlete Tyler Curle can attest to this, as he usually rides 190+ cm skis for big mountain, yet felt right at home charging on the Commander 178.
Can you or Tyler expand on this a bit more to assist me with length decision? In other words, Does TCurle still ride 190s, but felt comofortable on the 178 because of the construction, or has now switched from longer lengths to shorter with the Commander? I'm just shy of 5'11" and 157 lbs if that helps with any suggestions.
Thanks.
I was only on the 178 because we were doing a demo. I still prefer the 188 because you can open it up more due to the fact that it's a longer ski. with your height and weight I might suggest the 178. Also, if you ride in an area with good tree skiing and some tight terrain that would make sense. However, if you're a cool guy at Jackson who wants to make two turns down the mountain go with a longer ski.
tcurleI was only on the 178 because we were doing a demo. I still prefer the 188 because you can open it up more due to the fact that it's a longer ski. with your height and weight I might suggest the 178. Also, if you ride in an area with good tree skiing and some tight terrain that would make sense. However, if you're a cool guy at Jackson who wants to make two turns down the mountain go with a longer ski.
Not sure how cool a guy I am, but these skis would see the most use on open terrain like Squaw, AK and Europe so even though I'm on the lighter side, I think the extra few CMs won't hurt. Also, I grew up skiing longer, cambered race skis so a longer ski doesn't scare me or make me hesitate that way it might for some folks, and as you say, it lets you open them up without any second thoughts. My shortest ski right now is 181 so your input helped. Thanks.
Chrisc70Not sure how cool a guy I am, but these skis would see the most use on open terrain like Squaw, AK and Europe so even though I'm on the lighter side, I think the extra few CMs won't hurt. Also, I grew up skiing longer, cambered race skis so a longer ski doesn't scare me or make me hesitate that way it might for some folks, and as you say, it lets you open them up without any second thoughts. My shortest ski right now is 181 so your input helped. Thanks.
Mr_pretzelThe new line looks so good! Excited to give the 190 deathwish a try now thats it a bit stiffer:)
Everyone who we put on the prototype stiffer pair has said that they are by and large a significant improvement over the original 190 flex, stoked for you to try them out.
BeetleJuice196 Governor, 190 Wildcat, and 188 PB&J all just joined my quiver for this upcoming season. Stoked!
SofaKingSickhey can you explain to me what you guys mean by multi radius sidecut? my uh friend doesnt understand. does it mean like a 5 point thing?
The sidecut of the ski is built out of multiple arcs that all have different radii, instead of a single arc from the widest point of the tip to the widest point of the tail. It's something that you'll see on a lot of models throughout the ski industry, from 2 different arcs (like on our Commander series) up to 5+ (like some Dynastar models). The idea behind it is you can make a larger variety of turns, as well as allowing easier entry into turns and easier exiting out of turns.
For example, on our Commander series, the sidecut radius in front of the boot is slightly shorter than the sidecut radius behind the boot. Shorter in the front allows the skier to initiate and crank into shorter turns when needed, while a larger sidecut radius behind the boot allows the skier to ride out larger turns and keeps the ski from getting too 'hooky' when exiting turns. The sidecut radius listed on our website is an average across the two radii.
Similar to pretty much all other ski design choices, multi radius sidecut really shines when it's used in conjunction with the other design aspects [like our front rocker camber profile]. Multi radius has more or less only being used on our more directional lineup (Commander), but other companies use it across multiple lineups and in a multitude of different ways.
hot.pocketThe sidecut of the ski is built out of multiple arcs that all have different radii, instead of a single arc from the widest point of the tip to the widest point of the tail. It's something that you'll see on a lot of models throughout the ski industry, from 2 different arcs (like on our Commander series) up to 5+ (like some Dynastar models). The idea behind it is you can make a larger variety of turns, as well as allowing easier entry into turns and easier exiting out of turns.
For example, on our Commander series, the sidecut radius in front of the boot is slightly shorter than the sidecut radius behind the boot. Shorter in the front allows the skier to initiate and crank into shorter turns when needed, while a larger sidecut radius behind the boot allows the skier to ride out larger turns and keeps the ski from getting too 'hooky' when exiting turns. The sidecut radius listed on our website is an average across the two radii.
Similar to pretty much all other ski design choices, multi radius sidecut really shines when it's used in conjunction with the other design aspects [like our front rocker camber profile]. Multi radius has more or less only being used on our more directional lineup (Commander), but other companies use it across multiple lineups and in a multitude of different ways.
okay gotcha, thanks. i'm a little gun shy about these kinds of things because ive skied JJs and Norwalks and couldn't stand the way they turned due to the 5 point radius. so maybe it's wiser for me to stick with traditional single arcs... or better yet, demo...
SofaKingSickokay gotcha, thanks. i'm a little gun shy about these kinds of things because ive skied JJs and Norwalks and couldn't stand the way they turned due to the 5 point radius. so maybe it's wiser for me to stick with traditional single arcs... or better yet, demo...
thanks man!
No problem! Demo is always the way to go with new skis, but don't be turned away from multi-radius skis. As stated above, a lot goes into the design, and looking at the JJ and the Norwalk, some other designs [aside from the 5 point radius] that they implemented into those models more than likely contributed to you not enjoying the way they turned...
hot.pocketNo problem! Demo is always the way to go with new skis, but don't be turned away from multi-radius skis. As stated above, a lot goes into the design, and looking at the JJ and the Norwalk, some other designs [aside from the 5 point radius] that they implemented into those models more than likely contributed to you not enjoying the way they turned...
Yeah that's what's frustrating, I can't say for certain what it is that made me hate them so much. 5 point? Taper? Just too small a radius? Something else? All I know is I gave it some time and absolutely hated them. They didn't seem to want to go straight or bite into big turns, they just wanted to pivot and bounce around. After skiing them I honestly have no clue how people can charge big lines with them
We recently rushed a pair of 108 Commander 188's through production for a customer that had the pleasure of flying down to Chile to ski for the past week. Below is his review, hopefully it'll give you guys a feel for the ski from someone who isn't biased like myself and tcurle. He also compares it to a lot of other skis in the 108-ish charging category.
Review of 108 Commander 188: I was fortunate enough to take a 108 Commander 188cm to Valle Nevado in Chile last week. I also had my Blizzard 185cm Cochise with me. I like the Cochise, and I currently have a lot of other skis (2016 Spur, 190 Bibby, 187 Brahma, 187 Bonafide), but I’ve still been looking for a 108 all mountain ski that is a go-to in difficult and variable conditions. I like the dampness of the Cochise, and while it’s easy to break the tail free in tighter places when needed, I thought it would be great to have similar dampness while being able to hold an edge in a tighter than 27 m radius. (towards that ideal I tried the J Skis186cm Metal, which had good qualities but ultimately felt short to me and did not exhibit good edge hold in firm, icy conditions, and the 2018 Black Crows Atris in 189cm, which also exhibited some good qualities but felt brittle and wasn’t nearly damp enough. First day of 5 on the trip I took the Cochise and Commander out, and I started on the Cochise until I had my legs back under me after the summer off.
After switching to the Commander, I didn’t take the Cochise back out again, nor did I take out the Brahma I brought – even though conditions were pretty firm everywhere and best on groomers, perfect conditions for the Brahma -- just enjoyed using the Commander the whole 5 days.
I never found the 185cm Cochise a difficult ski, but the Commander is an easier, more intuitive ski. It wants to be ridden from a more centered position and requires much less input to drive the tips and is also really easy to drift and slarve. The tails hold up well, and while you don’t want to get in the back seat, if you do, it's pretty easy to get back in position. Held an edge on firm and icy groomers and wind scoured packed powder, far better than the Cochise, and I felt more comfortable getting air on bumps and jumping turns on the Commander, which was quicker edge to edge. If bases are flat at speed on run outs that are roughed up at all, I would say the additional weight of the Cochise, my 185 was roughly 225 grams, or .5 lbs., per ski heavier than the 188 Commanders, made the Cochise feel more damp.
However, stability at speed on the Commander is enhanced by another 3 centimeters of length and less tip splay than the Cochise so despite a little less dampness, run outs at speed felt more stable on the Commander. When on edge, whether on roughed up groomers or in crud, or jumping in bumps, the difference in dampness wasn’t as noticeable and what feels like a longer effective edge on the Commander gives it more stability.
Most really damp skis don’t offer much in the way of quickness or liveliness. In contrast, I think the Commander was engineered to combine edge to edge quickness, lightness in the air, and a very solid dampness that is still lively enough to offer lots of rebound out of turns.
For me, someone who doesn’t need a 108 ski to be a powder ski, the 185 Cochise had pretty clearly beaten out the new ON3P Wrenegade 189 108, (felt much more locked into its radius and did not feel very lively), J’s Skis The Metal 186, 2018 Black Crows Atris 189, and 2017 Volkl 108 189.
Now, the 188 Commander pretty soundly beat out the Cochise and is clearly the best 108 ski for me. Great ski.
I miss the Donner Party and the Night Train, as bad as I miss the Line Mothership and the Prophet 130. But I also miss the awesome Volkl Explosiv, the Shiro, and the Kuro (195cm).
These graphics are ridiculous. I love them. The graphics on the Deathwish, Hot Mess, and Wildcat are my favorites. The Governor gives me Berserk chills. Like if you bleed on those skis, everyone around you gets sucked into a hell dimension and eaten by demons. Sweet spooky aesthetics.
http://www.skiburger.com is our value menu, and you can always find older Moment's on there. We're in the process of uploading all the 17/18 models that were left over as well. If you're looking for the 178, email info@momentskis.com and we'll look through old stock on Tuesday, never know what we might find.
_newschooler_720Any chance you guys will be restocking the c snowblades? Would cash for those in a heartbeat
Unfortunately we made so many that we ran through all the materials required to make them (mainly the bamboo) and we'll have to wait for more to come in before we can produce more.
Keep an eye out, they'll be back in stock sometime soon.
http://www.skiburger.com is our value menu, and you can always find older Moment's on there. We're in the process of uploading all the 17/18 models that were left over as well. If you're looking for the 178, email info@momentskis.com and we'll look through old stock on Tuesday, never know what we might find.
I'm looking for a 178. I will send an email. Thanks!
$15 gets you in and free beer from a multitude of local craft breweries [21+ / $10 for under 21 and non-drinking attendees]
Factory tours, sales and other fun stuff before the movie. We'll also be premiering our new ski shop contained within the factory, offering everything from skis to boots to bindings to outerwear and accessories, along with a full boot fitting service.
$15 gets you in and free beer from a multitude of local craft breweries [21+ / $10 for under 21 and non-drinking attendees]
Factory tours, sales and other fun stuff before the movie. We'll also be premiering our new ski shop contained within the factory, offering everything from skis to boots to bindings to outerwear and accessories, along with a full boot fitting service.
$15 gets you in and free beer from a multitude of local craft breweries [21+ / $10 for under 21 and non-drinking attendees]
Factory tours, sales and other fun stuff before the movie. We'll also be premiering our new ski shop contained within the factory, offering everything from skis to boots to bindings to outerwear and accessories, along with a full boot fitting service.