Yea lets the mask the fact that theres more mental health issues in this country than anywhere in the world.

You guys hear about the dudes who stabbed and killed 33 ppl and injured 130 others. ---- OMG lets ban knives!!!!

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/33-dead-130-injured-china-knife-wielding-spree-n41966

Dare I say that if Chinese citizens had guns they could have prevented this atrocity?

Tell me again how guns are the issue.

zuesTell me again how guns are the issue.

This is one of the most pathetic arguments against gun control, but you’re far too stubborn to ever admit that you may, in fact, be incorrect. And that’s the end of the discussion right there.

“In countries without the abundance and ready access to guns, we see perpetrators resorting to what’s available,” Kivisto added. “While knives, automobiles and explosives can inflict significant harm, this study’s findings reinforce what we know - which is that guns provide one of the most efficient means of killing large numbers of people.”

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-terrorism-firearms/terror-attacks-in-u-s-more-likely-than-elsewhere-to-involve-guns-idUSKBN1CE24G

IsitWinterYet17"Theory", but remember how many guns exist already in the USA and how easy it is to get them from Mexico. Remember the fast and furious operation to track guns and how well that worked. Truth is guns are everywhere and are impossible to track. There's more guns than people in the USA. Even if they are banned, they aren't going anywhere. A buyback is fiscally impossible, so guns will still exist and just get shuffled between owners. Even if the USA bans all guns, they will still exist and more will still be smuggled across the border.

Isn't the way it works is that drugs go north (to US) and money and guns go south (to Mexico). We are mexicos gun supply.

I do not believe gun control legislation will have an immediate affect but you gotta start sometime.

TheHamburglar“In countries without the abundance and ready access to guns, we see perpetrators resorting to what’s available,” Kivisto added. “While knives, automobiles and explosives can inflict significant harm, this study’s findings reinforce what we know - which is that guns provide one of the most efficient means of killing large numbers of people.”

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-terrorism-firearms/terror-attacks-in-u-s-more-likely-than-elsewhere-to-involve-guns-idUSKBN1CE24G

Thanks for reinforcing my point. People can do that much damage with knives because guns were unavailable. I don't believe a single school shooting inured / killed as many people as these whackjobs with knives. Lets ban guns so the criminals turn in their weapons. As soon as you can't walk into a store to buy a gun what are you going to do? You're going to get online and order one illegally either on the deep web or not.

**This post was edited on Feb 22nd 2018 at 10:08:23am

I can tell you're one of those people that thinks more government will solve the problem

TheHamburglar“In countries without the abundance and ready access to guns, we see perpetrators resorting to what’s available,” Kivisto added. “While knives, automobiles and explosives can inflict significant harm, this study’s findings reinforce what we know - which is that guns provide one of the most efficient means of killing large numbers of people.”

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-terrorism-firearms/terror-attacks-in-u-s-more-likely-than-elsewhere-to-involve-guns-idUSKBN1CE24G

zuesI can tell you're one of those people that thinks more government will solve the problem

I can tell that you're one of those people who thinks that less government will solve everything. Please.

It should be pretty clear that without government regulation, that businesses/banks would shit all over everything if given the chance if it improved their profitability, which history time and time again shows they do. The free market is a myth, it doesn't work.

If the government actually had the interest of the public/tax payers in mind, then yes government would be a very good thing. But as long as they put business interests ahead of public interest, there will always be a huge problem. And right now, that is exactly what the government is doing.

I think the only solution to this problem is to arm every student k-12. Everyone one in the school issued AR-15's, except the lunch ladies until they tell us what's in their mystery meat. Maybe that'll finally make em spill

zuesThanks for reinforcing my point.

Wow, your reading comprehension must be ineffectual at most, as the point of the article went directly over your head regarding the efficiency in killing with guns versus any other means. You not only failed to provide an adequate argument against stricter gun control, but you continue to evade the question and shift the topic of discussion. Do you see why this discussion is so frustrating for us sane people in the US?

Stilll waiting for an intelligent pro gun boy to provide a solid argument against stricter gun control.

onenerdykidAnd right now, that is exactly what the government is doing.

Absolutely. I think lobbying groups should be the most heavily-regulated private entities. Well actually I think political lobbying should be downright illegal, but that will never happen. The NRA has had its power go unchecked for far too long and now it is a root of corruption in our government whose influence grows larger every day.

Unfortunately, guns are so ingrained in our culture that the NRA has a very easy time pandering to the conservative base, who blindly support it under the guise of 2A rights.

I'm not proposing anarchy because you're right it would be an absolute shit show. But i think too much government intervention makes things worse. It goes both ways. Look at how Obama bailed out the banks in 2009. Billions of dollars lent to irresponsible bankers of which none went to prison. Insanity. I understand if those banks went under it would be absolute chaos and the US would have unfavorable market conditions for quite a while, Faith would be lost in banks and the market / economy would probably have been hit way worse than it was.

Theres so much bullshit / gridlock / waste in our government at all levels and I don't see how anything will be corrected by expanding it. Government needs to be restricted and condensed. There has always been some sort of government in place in mostly all historical examples, It's when the government becomes overbearing and corrupt when the issues arise.

onenerdykidI can tell that you're one of those people who thinks that less government will solve everything. Please.

It should be pretty clear that without government regulation, that businesses/banks would shit all over everything if given the chance if it improved their profitability, which history time and time again shows they do. The free market is a myth, it doesn't work.

If the government actually had the interest of the public/tax payers in mind, then yes government would be a very good thing. But as long as they put business interests ahead of public interest, there will always be a huge problem. And right now, that is exactly what the government is doing.

No my point is that guns are only a fraction of the problems we're facing. It's really hatred and loathing of people because of mental / religious /racial reasons. You're trying to mask a gun problem with a societal problem.

Again you can kill people with trucks, poison, weapons.... whatever you want. Stop trying to make this a gun issue

TheHamburglarWow, your reading comprehension must be ineffectual at most, as the point of the article went directly over your head regarding the efficiency in killing with guns versus any other means. You not only failed to provide an adequate argument against stricter gun control, but you continue to evade the question and shift the topic of discussion. Do you see why this discussion is so frustrating for us sane people in the US?

Stilll waiting for an intelligent pro gun boy to provide a solid argument against stricter gun control.

zuesStop trying to make this a gun issue

IT IS A GUN ISSUE YOU FUCKING RETARD STOP BEING SO GOD DAMN IGNORANT

/endtannerhallfont

This thread is hawwtttttt. People just arguing back and forth saying different versions of the same goddamn thing. This is why no gun control legislation has been passed in addition to gun lobbying. We are too divided and closed minded.

Disclaimer: I'm a gun owner

IsitWinterYet17This thread is hawwtttttt. People just arguing back and forth saying different versions of the same goddamn thing. This is why no gun control legislation has been passed in addition to gun lobbying. We are too divided and closed minded.

Disclaimer: I'm a gun owner

Sure, because one side simply refuses to admit there’s an issue at hand to begin with. Rinse and repeat. Fuck these people.

zuesNo my point is that guns are only a fraction of the problems we're

Again you can kill people with trucks, poison, weapons.... whatever you want. Stop trying to make this a gun issue

Humans, even the crazy ones, take the path of least resistance.

There's a reason why school shooters use guns instead of a pickup or nerve gas.

zuesNo my point is that guns are only a fraction of the problems we're facing. It's really hatred and loathing of people because of mental / religious /racial reasons. You're trying to mask a gun problem with a societal problem.

Again you can kill people with trucks, poison, weapons.... whatever you want. Stop trying to make this a gun issue

You can kill people with a potato, a lawn mower, a grapefruit, an inflatable swimming pool, six inches of syran wrap, a five-foot extension cord.... you can prick someone a thousand times with a paper clip... you can force-feed someone too much water.

It's just, people use guns WAY more often, because it's way, way easier than using a potato, a grapefruit or a paper clip.

ESBYou can kill people with a potato, a lawn mower, a grapefruit, an inflatable swimming pool, six inches of syran wrap, a five-foot extension cord.... you can prick someone a thousand times with a paper clip... you can force-feed someone too much water.

It's just, people use guns WAY more often, because it's way, way easier than using a potato, a grapefruit or a paper clip.

Exactly my point. Lets make them illegal so now only the bad people still have them... makes zero sense to me.

zuesNo my point is that guns are only a fraction of the problems we're facing. It's really hatred and loathing of people because of mental / religious /racial reasons. You're trying to mask a gun problem with a societal problem.

Again you can kill people with trucks, poison, weapons.... whatever you want. Stop trying to make this a gun issue

@ Zues

Do you think that people with proven mental health issues should be able to obtain firearms?

zuesAgain you can kill people with trucks, poison, weapons.... whatever you want. Stop trying to make this a gun issue

But in these countries where guns are hard to obtain and trucks were used to commit an atrocity, the government stepped in to make it harder for this kind of thing to happen again. They installed concrete barriers and bollards that can raise and lower, etc. at entrances of popular pedestrian areas. They are taking measures to protect their citizens, which is arguably job #1 of the government, and what is definitely lacking in the US.

I am not a gun owner, but I fully support your right to own a gun. But there is clearly more that can be done to keep guns out of the hands of people who should not own them. Not only should there be better pre-purchase checks in place, including aptitude tests on the same level as a pilot's license, but also post-purchase checks to ensure that the person who did pass the preliminary tests is still able and fit to do so. Your right is still in place, but clearly this would do a far better chance at preventing people who should not own guns.

Yes, fix the mental health problem. A better, more accessible healthcare system would be a pretty good way about doing that. But also there is CLEARLY more that can be done to educate and train gun owners and prevent people who should not be owning guns from owning them.

Yea people and their gun restriction laws. My point is you can try and put restrictions on guns... It might help initally but ultimately criminals will undoubtedly get them if they wanted to. Then it becomes a slippery slope because as you restrict more and more and it continues to do very little / nothing - now you're at the point of making all guns illegal in which case only the bad people will still have them.

If you don't think this a possibility then i'm done talking to you. What most people don't understand is that automatic weapons are already illegal and banned.

zuesExactly my point. Lets make them illegal so now only the bad people still have them... makes zero sense to me.

No one is suggesting that all guns be made illegal.

People are suggesting that:

- the federal background check apparatus be strengthened

- the people with a proven state of mental illness / threat to others should not be able to acquire firearms

- new minimum age laws should be considered, so that it's not easier to buy a gun than it is to buy cigarettes or alcohol

- Gun owners should undergo mandatory firearms training before acquiring a firearm

Any thoughts on any of that?

zuesWhat most people don't understand is that automatic weapons are already illegal and banned.

Literally everyone understands this.

What everyone also understands its that it's currently fully legal to modify a weapon with a bump stock and an extended clip so that the difference between a full-auto and a semi-auto is negligible.

The classic rebuttal to your argument of "well criminals are just going to do it anyway so why should we make certain things illegal" is this: murder is illegal, but criminals commit murder anyway. Does this mean that a law against murder is futile and should be abolished?

Stephen Pattock was a "law-abiding citizen" up until the point when he wasn't anymore.

These are all great ideas but how would you actually implement them?

Correct me if i'm wrong, but a lot of these school shooters had no criminal back ground, so stronger background checks wouldn't have done anything.

There is training involved when getting your pistol permit - not sure about rifles, but there definitely should be.

How exactly would you evaluate someone mentally before they buy a gun?

ESBNo one is suggesting that all guns be made illegal.

People are suggesting that:

- the federal background check apparatus be strengthened

- the people with a proven state of mental illness / threat to others should not be able to acquire firearms

- new minimum age laws should be considered, so that it's not easier to buy a gun than it is to buy cigarettes or alcohol

- Gun owners should undergo mandatory firearms training before acquiring a firearm

Any thoughts on any of that?

ESBLiterally everyone understands this.

What everyone also understands its that it's currently fully legal to modify a weapon with a bump stock and an extended clip so that the difference between a full-auto and a semi-auto is negligible.

The classic rebuttal to your argument of "well criminals are just going to do it anyway so why should we make certain things illegal" is this: murder is illegal, but criminals commit murder anyway. Does this mean that a law against murder is futile and should be abolished?

I hear what you're saying and bump stocks will be illegal soon

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/20/us/politics/trump-bump-stocks.html

But you honestly think that's going to solve the problem? Ultimately making guns illegal will be the last step and it'll be a failure

zuesI hear what you're saying and bump stocks will be illegal soon

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/20/us/politics/trump-bump-stocks.html

But you honestly think that's going to solve the problem? Ultimately making guns illegal will be the last step and it'll be a failure

History never lies. Alcohol was illegal... drugs are still illegal and more people are dying now from overdoses than ever before. So go ahead amend the laws you'll never fix the problem, we're far too into this for anything to be done.

zuesThese are all great ideas but how would you actually implement them?

Correct me if i'm wrong, but a lot of these school shooters had no criminal back ground, so stronger background checks wouldn't have done anything.

There is training involved when getting your pistol permit - not sure about rifles, but there definitely should be.

How exactly would you evaluate someone mentally before they buy a gun?

We would do so like other countries that allow gun ownership but have more stringent background checks and post-sale yearly checks. It would clearly improve the scenario. Not to the point of 0, no one thinks that. No on also thinks the law against murder should keep the murder rate to 0. But it would certainly catch people who aren't fit to own guns, and it would at least make a lot of would-be lawbreakers rethink their decision knowing they'd have to pass 1,000 hours of training, test taking, mental health exams, and yearly check ups/exams.

Owning a deadly weapon should not be an easy thing. We are far too cavalier and relaxed about owning items whose inherent purpose is to cause destruction and bodily harm. And our government, whose job it is to protect its citizens, should be helping to ensure that gun owners are properly fit to do so.

**This post was edited on Feb 22nd 2018 at 1:50:46pm

Different topic kinda but.... I also have to say before anyone uses this as rational for gun training, the CCW "training class" is a fucking joke that needs improved. It's less than 8 hours of rudimentary level garbage and basically is a "how to use a gun for dummies" or better yet "how to own a gun and not shoot yourself". This dude in my class (prime example of who shouldn't own a gun) had his pistol for 6 months and hadn't once cleaned it with hundreds of rounds or more ran through it, and didn't even know how to disassemble it either. He said something else I forget but it was so stupid even the instructor called him out for being a moron. The target requirement was to shoot 25 rounds or something similar and hit a 12"x12" sheet of paper from 10ft away. Some of the people struggled even with that. Then at the end you get a fancy NRA certificate to take to your sheriff's office and fill out your CCW application. They make it seem like that class is so informative, but really it's a joke as well and a waste of time. Also guns do not "go off"; people are just stupid. I'd be in favor for a more in depth training class for noobs, that allows more skilled people to test out of and just do the law and qualifications part. The range qualifications need to be stricter too. They're a joke. There's also no continuing skills required. Once you pass and get your license, you're good to go forever even if you never practice with your gun again. Such a fallacy.

Just some more wood for the fire.

zuesThese are all great ideas but how would you actually implement them?

Correct me if i'm wrong, but a lot of these school shooters had no criminal back ground, so stronger background checks wouldn't have done anything.

There is training involved when getting your pistol permit - not sure about rifles, but there definitely should be.

How exactly would you evaluate someone mentally before they buy a gun?

Currently under federal law, it's illegal to acquire firearms if you've been involuntarily committed to a mental institution, or if a court has declared you mentally incompetent. In those case, state officials are supposed to report information to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System; but they are not legally mandated to do so and often don't, creating cracks in which people slip through. Federally mandating that this information be reported would be a great first step.

Currently there's no federal requirement to acquire a license before purchasing a firearm. There are 14 states with legislation requiring you to acquire some kind of license before purchasing a gun—in the rest, you need no license or any kind of check of your ability to handle a firearm before you can buy one. So a federally mandated licensing system, in which everyone has to pass a test before buying a gun (just like a drivers license) would be a very practical first step.

Mandated firearms training and licensing would create a system that makes it more difficult for potentially dangerous / inept/ mentally impaired people to acquire firearms, even if they haven't been flagged before via the current federal law mentioned above (which you'll have noticed is very loose).

How do you evaluate someone mentally before they buy a gun? Well, you make an attempt to—with mandatory classes, training and licensing. Don't you agree that that's better than doing nothing at all?

As a further note, this system would be far closer to the "well regulated militia" referred to in the 2nd Amendment—so 2A folks should be pretty hyped on it.

zuesUltimately making guns illegal will be the last step and it'll be a failure

You continually assume that because people want to make it more difficult to acquire firearms, that the end result will be a total ban.

This is 100% false, and you should stop assuming it. It's a favorite talking point of the NRA, but it's not true.

A great example of this is the dozens of other industrialized nations that have stricter gun laws, like the one where I live (Switzerland). You can still acquire firearms, it's just not as easy as responding to a Craigslist ad.

IsitWinterYet17Different topic kinda but.... I also have to say before anyone uses this as rational for gun training, the CCW "training class" is a fucking joke that needs improved. It's less than 8 hours of rudimentary level garbage and basically is a "how to use a gun for dummies" or better yet "how to own a gun and not shoot yourself". This dude in my class (prime example of who shouldn't own a gun) had his pistol for 6 months and hadn't once cleaned it with hundreds of rounds or more ran through it, and didn't even know how to disassemble it either. He said something else I forget but it was so stupid even the instructor called him out for being a moron. The target requirement was to shoot 25 rounds or something similar and hit a 12"x12" sheet of paper from 10ft away. Some of the people struggled even with that. Then at the end you get a fancy NRA certificate to take to your sheriff's office and fill out your CCW application. They make it seem like that class is so informative, but really it's a joke as well and a waste of time. Also guns do not "go off"; people are just stupid. I'd be in favor for a more in depth training class for noobs, that allows more skilled people to test out of and just do the law and qualifications part. The range qualifications need to be stricter too. They're a joke. There's also no continuing skills required. Once you pass and get your license, you're good to go forever even if you never practice with your gun again. Such a fallacy.

Just some more wood for the fire.

You're absolutely right: many or most of the "training classes" currently mandated by some states are doing little or nothing to teach people how to handle their firearms responsibly, or to weed out those who perhaps shouldn't own a gun at all. From what I've heard, it's basically impossible to fail a training course unless you do something like accidentally shoot your instructor.

So does this mean that training is stupid and should be abolished? Or does it mean that we should go about it in a more uniform (federally mandated) and strict (more demanding, more critical, with the actual possibility that someone is denied a permit) manner?

All great points and I agree with you on some of them.

onenerdykidWe would do so like other countries that allow gun ownership but have more stringent background checks and post-sale yearly checks. It would clearly improve the scenario. Not to the point of 0, no one thinks that. No on also thinks the law against murder should keep the murder rate to 0. But it would certainly catch people who aren't fit to own guns, and it would at least make a lot of would-be lawbreakers rethink their decision knowing they'd have to pass 1,000 hours of training, test taking, mental health exams, and yearly check ups/exams.

Owning a deadly weapon should not be an easy thing. We are far too cavalier and relaxed about owning items whose inherent purpose is to cause destruction and bodily harm. And our government, whose job it is to protect its citizens, should be helping to ensure that gun owners are properly fit to do so.

**This post was edited on Feb 22nd 2018 at 1:50:46pm

zuesAll great points and I agree with you on some of them.

Hey Zues just want to say I'm glad we're having this discussion and that you're open to hearing other viewpoints.

yea man it's pointless to name call.... honestly it's disgusting whats going on in America with the violence and all...I hope something can be done to prevent it. I'm a realist, a libertarian and somewhat conservative. I like guns but i definitely see flaws in the laws to acquire them. Mostly it boils down to my lack of trust in our government.

ESBHey Zues just want to say I'm glad we're having this discussion and that you're open to hearing other viewpoints.

zuesyea man it's pointless to name call.... honestly it's disgusting whats going on in America with the violence and all...I hope something can be done to prevent it. I'm a realist, a libertarian and somewhat conservative. I like guns but i definitely see flaws in the laws to acquire them. Mostly it boils down to my lack of trust in our government.

Amen brotha. I understand the perspective of people who lack trust in government and the American gov't in general; they've certainly pulled some shenanigans in the past that have warranted mistrust.

However at the end of the day, governments are the only institutions that actually have the mandate to protect their citizens. Private companies and organizations do not have that mandate.

Gov't is entrusted (and should be held to account by a watchful populace and media) in ensuring that transportation systems, buildings and public infrastructure is safe.

Gov'ts are entrusted with creating laws that protect their citizens. Gun legislation is no different.

ESBYou're absolutely right: many or most of the "training classes" currently mandated by some states are doing little or nothing to teach people how to handle their firearms responsibly, or to weed out those who perhaps shouldn't own a gun at all. From what I've heard, it's basically impossible to fail a training course unless you do something like accidentally shoot your instructor.

So does this mean that training is stupid and should be abolished? Or does it mean that we should go about it in a more uniform (federally mandated) and strict (more demanding, more critical, with the actual possibility that someone is denied a permit) manner?

In a more strict manner

This is despicable: USA TODAY: 'It's devastating': Cop stayed outside during Florida massacre while students died

https://usat.ly/2oqMZ4R

What a coward.

IsitWinterYet17This is despicable: USA TODAY: 'It's devastating': Cop stayed outside during Florida massacre while students died

https://usat.ly/2oqMZ4R

What a coward.

But... but... he was a good guy with a gun! And he didn't stop a mass shooting? Wow no way

So if I am understanding the concept correctly, we are looking at the following situation:

We have a president who is incompetent and un trustworthy, so we should give all of our weapons to him so that he can protect the law abiding citizens. Said citizens will the affectively live inside of a nation wide gun-free zone, similar to the schools and government buildings which are already gun-free zones and are victims of shootings regularly.

It may be time for people to realize that, of course there needs to be changes implemented in our current situation. The fact that a person who was reported to the FBI can still be allowed to PURCHASE an AR-15 is ludicrous and there are actually simple ways of preventing that which is what sickens me. The gun debate is so hopeless because nobody is thinking logically. Men and Women in America need to put aside their feelings and use their collective ability to generate actual change. Too many people in the world are so quick to deem each other idiots and fools and too few are willing to unite towards the common goal of actually FIXING the problem at hand, which so tragically is DEAD CHILDREN. Please you guys let's stop this bipartisan ridiculousness. Can anybody here honestly say that they back any political figure 100%? It seems to me that that is impossible, so let's take the good with the bad and try to amplify the positives istead of the opposite. We can have an enormous effect on our world if we are able to look past each other's differences and just focus on solving problems. Calling people names and words like trumpsters and libtards and idiots and racists, sexists, etc. does nothing but widen the riff.

My biggest fear is that one day America will collapse entirely and our force of good will be impossible to rekindle. We have power as the People of one of the strongest nations on Earth.

But above all else, let us remember we are all ONE RACE, and can be united through ONE LOVE and ONE GOAL which is equal opportunity and kindness.

If you feel passionate about a political standpoint, then I urge you to enact means to the end that go beyond name calling and complaining. Our newest generations have so much potential being wasted by idle talk and not enough action. Be the change you wish to see, and please do not widen the gap even more.

CambrewskiSo if I am understanding the concept correctly, we are looking at the following situation:

We have a president who is incompetent and un trustworthy, so we should give all of our weapons to him so that he can protect the law abiding citizens. Said citizens will the affectively live inside of a nation wide gun-free zone, similar to the schools and government buildings which are already gun-free zones and are victims of shootings regularly.

It may be time for people to realize that, of course there needs to be changes implemented in our current situation. The fact that a person who was reported to the FBI can still be allowed to PURCHASE an AR-15 is ludicrous and there are actually simple ways of preventing that which is what sickens me. The gun debate is so hopeless because nobody is thinking logically. Men and Women in America need to put aside their feelings and use their collective ability to generate actual change. Too many people in the world are so quick to deem each other idiots and fools and too few are willing to unite towards the common goal of actually FIXING the problem at hand, which so tragically is DEAD CHILDREN. Please you guys let's stop this bipartisan ridiculousness. Can anybody here honestly say that they back any political figure 100%? It seems to me that that is impossible, so let's take the good with the bad and try to amplify the positives istead of the opposite. We can have an enormous effect on our world if we are able to look past each other's differences and just focus on solving problems. Calling people names and words like trumpsters and libtards and idiots and racists, sexists, etc. does nothing but widen the riff.

My biggest fear is that one day America will collapse entirely and our force of good will be impossible to rekindle. We have power as the People of one of the strongest nations on Earth.

But above all else, let us remember we are all ONE RACE, and can be united through ONE LOVE and ONE GOAL which is equal opportunity and kindness.

If you feel passionate about a political standpoint, then I urge you to enact means to the end that go beyond name calling and complaining. Our newest generations have so much potential being wasted by idle talk and not enough action. Be the change you wish to see, and please do not widen the gap even more.

I'm absolutely okay with us losing our power as one of the strongest nations. Honestly, fuck our empire. Let's fix America before trying to run the world, and I'd like us to stop running the world regardless.

As far as guns, nothing will ever change because rabble rabble dont take my freedoms people are delusional as fuck.

Don't believe the media... I've learned my lesson and you should too.

TheHamburglarBut... but... he was a good guy with a gun! And he didn't stop a mass shooting? Wow no way

As incompetent and dumb as America is do you really want Russia, China and India calling the shots?

theabortionatorI'm absolutely okay with us losing our power as one of the strongest nations. Honestly, fuck our empire. Let's fix America before trying to run the world, and I'd like us to stop running the world regardless.

As far as guns, nothing will ever change because rabble rabble dont take my freedoms people are delusional as fuck.

zuesDon't believe the media... I've learned my lesson and you should too.

What the hell does the media have to do with it? Literally a good guy with a gun did not stop a bad guy with a gun. There’s nothing more to it than that. He failed to do his job, even with a firearm and years of training and service. End of story. Good guys with guns do not save the day in the vast majority of mass shootings. You simply cannot deny that, but you will anyway.

Also you know you spelled Zeus wrong, yeah?

TheHamburglarWhat the hell does the media have to do with it? Literally a good guy with a gun did not stop a bad guy with a gun. There’s nothing more to it than that. He failed to do his job, even with a firearm and years of training and service. End of story. Good guys with guns do not save the day in the vast majority of mass shootings. You simply cannot deny that, but you will anyway.

Also you know you spelled Zeus wrong, yeah?

It's all allegedly bro chill out. People love to hear shit and just believe it immediately. Go ask Russia about the election rigging or Hillary about her presidency. Take a chill pill and stop letting the internet make you angry.

95% of news media is owned by 6 corporations that prey on people like you to believe what they want you to believe.

Question - Are you 12 years old or dumb??? Because I know its one of those choices.

And i'm not trying to spell Zeus yea? it's part of my last name.

Awaiting your angry response trying not smile XD

CambrewskiSo if I am understanding the concept correctly

I agree with everything you posted. It just gets so damn frustrating to see these mass shootings happen over and over again, one of which was in the hometown I grew up in, and nothing ever changes, we just wait until the next one.

What really irritates me is that the NRA, who is financially backed by every single gun-toting white boys in the USA (who have no idea they're being played), is continuing to deny deny deny that guns bear any responsibility in mass shootings. They blame everything else; video games, lack of jesus in schools, lack of capital punishment, whatever, it's literally anything BESIDES the fact that these shooters seem to be legally acquiring firearms either through loopholes or because they were improperly vetted. What we need is stricter gun control, but the "other side" of this unfortunately quite bipartisan argument refuses to begin that conversation, let alone take steps toward action. That's what infuriates me, especially on this site with members who just refuse to acknowledge any viewpoint they disagree with. Name-calling is petty, refusal to acknowledge someone's position on a very serious issue is downright despicable and should be brought to public attention.

We need gun control now. STILL waiting on a good argument AGAINST gun control besides but a knife, but a bomb, but a car. I have provided statistics as to WHY guns are the easiest and most efficient way to kill a large number of people quickly, and THATS what the fuck we're talking about here.

zuesTake a chill pill and stop letting the internet make you angry.

I'll do this once you admit that guns are a big part of the problem in American mass shootings, and provide some steps on how better to address that problem, rather than shifting to a different topic.

Allegedly? There is video, the sheriff made a statement about if and he resigned. How much more proof do you need?

zuesIt's all allegedly bro chill out. People love to hear shit and just believe it immediately. Go ask Russia about the election rigging or Hillary about her presidency. Take a chill pill and stop letting the internet make you angry.

95% of news media is owned by 6 corporations that prey on people like you to believe what they want you to believe.

Question - Are you 12 years old or dumb??? Because I know its one of those choices.

And i'm not trying to spell Zeus yea? it's part of my last name.

Awaiting your angry response trying not smile XD

TheHamburglarBut... but... he was a good guy with a gun! And he didn't stop a mass shooting? Wow no way

A little simplistic to say good guy with a gun. He was a freaking cop who opted to do nothing and could have saved many lives. It said he arrived 30 seconds or a minute after the 4-5min shooting spree started, but stayed outside rather than doing his job and entering the building. He was previously a sheriff's deputy, then moved to school resource officer that is still employed by the sheriff's department.

Youre a douche trying to spin this into an argument for gun control.

Hold up... you want me to admit that guns are a problem in mass shootings? NO SHIT what else would be the problem is mass SHOOTINGS? bows and arrows? HAHAHA...

Guns don't cause mass shootings People wielding guns do. If we wanted to stop mass shootings we should just ban murder... why only focus on guns?

Thats it we've solved the problem!!!?? lets pass a bill to make murder illegal!!!

TheHamburglarI'll do this once you admit that guns are a big part of the problem in American mass shootings, and provide some steps on how better to address that problem, rather than shifting to a different topic.