You sound a lot like TBK . . .

https://www.newschoolers.com/forum/thread/803345/Help-us-make-a-crazy-set-of-skis

Shoey-SkiDude they are starting out, who wants to buy a 500 dollar ski from a brand new company? No one, you want to offer a good product for the low to keep your customers comming back, you gotta start at the bottom and build a reputation for your brand and work your way up

" who wants to buy a 500 dollar ski from a brand new company". Your not making any sense. Like seriously what were you thinking when you typed that. Every other ski company with a good reputation sells their skis for 500+ dollars. Companies like moment, ON3P etc all get tons of business with skis way over that price-point. Why would it matter if its a new company or not? Thousands of other skiers are willing to pay 800 bucks for new skis that are top-notch. " you want to offer a good product for low to keep your customers comming back". They way to make sure your companies keep "comming" back is to have a quality product, and quality skis cost more money to build. If you don't price those skis higher, then you wont make any money. There is just no way these skis are more than half-decent if they are being sold for that cheap. Just take a look at the other companies that have gone under with the same business plan as these guys.

Jcamotts" who wants to buy a 500 dollar ski from a brand new company". Your not making any sense. Like seriously what were you thinking when you typed that. Every other ski company with a good reputation sells their skis for 500+ dollars. Companies like moment, ON3P etc all get tons of business with skis way over that price-point. Why would it matter if its a new company or not? Thousands of other skiers are willing to pay 800 bucks for new skis that are top-notch. " you want to offer a good product for low to keep your customers comming back". They way to make sure your companies keep "comming" back is to have a quality product, and quality skis cost more money to build. If you don't price those skis higher, then you wont make any money. There is just no way these skis are more than half-decent if they are being sold for that cheap. Just take a look at the other companies that have gone under with the same business plan as these guys.

If the brand isn't established with a good reputation, they could have the sickest skis out, but no one will know that because who wants to take the risk on an $800 pair of skis that could break day 1? "Like seriously what were you thinking when you typed that." I'd say hes thinking like a reasonable person who doesn't have money to blow.

reputation is a huge factor in selling skis. No rep means minimal sales, if any.

Jcamotts" who wants to buy a 500 dollar ski from a brand new company". Your not making any sense. Like seriously what were you thinking when you typed that. Every other ski company with a good reputation sells their skis for 500+ dollars. Companies like moment, ON3P etc all get tons of business with skis way over that price-point. Why would it matter if its a new company or not? Thousands of other skiers are willing to pay 800 bucks for new skis that are top-notch. " you want to offer a good product for low to keep your customers comming back". They way to make sure your companies keep "comming" back is to have a quality product, and quality skis cost more money to build. If you don't price those skis higher, then you wont make any money. There is just no way these skis are more than half-decent if they are being sold for that cheap. Just take a look at the other companies that have gone under with the same business plan as these guys.

Read what you just said " every other ski company with a GOOD REPUTATION" the reason they are sellling them for cheap is to build there reputation so they can eventually sell them for a higher price point. Right now almost no one has actually skied their skis, no big published reviews, and not enough people to give different views of feed back, the lower price point gives you the opportunity to try them, that way if you hate them you didn't just spend 500+ on something you hate. But if you love them, then you become a happy customer. idk about you but if I'm given the opportunity to buy from a brand new company or a company that has been around for 10+ years for the same price, what makes me want to pick the brand new brand?

parkplaygroundIf the brand isn't established with a good reputation, they could have the sickest skis out, but no one will know that because who wants to take the risk on an $800 pair of skis that could break day 1? "Like seriously what were you thinking when you typed that." I'd say hes thinking like a reasonable person who doesn't have money to blow.

reputation is a huge factor in selling skis. No rep means minimal sales, if any.

Shoey-SkiRead what you just said " every other ski company with a GOOD REPUTATION" the reason they are sellling them for cheap is to build there reputation so they can eventually sell them for a higher price point. Right now almost no one has actually skied their skis, no big published reviews, and not enough people to give different views of feed back, the lower price point gives you the opportunity to try them, that way if you hate them you didn't just spend 500+ on something you hate. But if you love them, then you become a happy customer. idk about you but if I'm given the opportunity to buy from a brand new company or a company that has been around for 10+ years for the same price, what makes me want to pick the brand new brand?

If the skis are selling for 350, then they obviously are making the skis for very cheap or else they wouldnt be making any money by selling them that low. Reputation comes from making the best quality skis, not the cheapest.

JcamottsIf the skis are selling for 350, then they obviously are making the skis for very cheap or else they wouldnt be making any money by selling them that low. Reputation comes from making the best quality skis, not the cheapest.

Dude your beating a dead horse, skis aren't insanely expensive to make, you can have a quality price point ski, but you can't have a quality pricpoint ski that takes 30 hours to make by hand in America, when it's way cheaper to do it in China

JcamottsIf the skis are selling for 350, then they obviously are making the skis for very cheap or else they wouldnt be making any money by selling them that low. Reputation comes from making the best quality skis, not the cheapest.

I bet you they will make more money off of their skis than say Salomon, Line, K2, or Armada does. Honestly, What do you think those company's are selling their skis to shops for?

Shops mark up the skis after they buy them from the company anywhere from 50%-150%, Reps are also taking 10-30% of the sale. (Possibly more, this is just what I have heard from local reps as to what they make.)

So realistically, with these guys selling direct, they are probably selling for the same price as other company's are, They also on Instagram about a week or two ago claimed to be using 2.5mm edges, those are the same size as On3p,

You stating they couldn't make a nice ski and sell it for that price is ridiculous.

stormtrooperI bet you they will make more money off of their skis than say Salomon, Line, K2, or Armada does. Honestly, What do you think those company's are selling their skis to shops for?

Shops mark up the skis after they buy them from the company anywhere from 50%-150%, Reps are also taking 10-30% of the sale. (Possibly more, this is just what I have heard from local reps as to what they make.)

So realistically, with these guys selling direct, they are probably selling for the same price as other company's are, They also on Instagram about a week or two ago claimed to be using 2.5mm edges, those are the same size as On3p,

You stating they couldn't make a nice ski and sell it for that price is ridiculous.

the facts are in this thread already. He chose not to read them or believe them. Either way, its not worth arguing with someone who still denies it.

stormtrooperYou stating they couldn't make a nice ski and sell it for that price is ridiculous.

But at the end of the day they arent making a ski - thats the job of someone in China.

GnarcoSo you'd never buy a car before its been made? Never order a new model that hasnt been delivered to dealers yet? Im pretty sure this is how most supercars are sold. You'd never have someone make you a custom dining table or piece of furniture? Or is "unproven and new company" the kicker that separates these?

Yes, Duh.

Shoey-SkiDude your beating a dead horse, skis aren't insanely expensive to make, you can have a quality price point ski, but you can't have a quality pricpoint ski that takes 30 hours to make by hand in America, when it's way cheaper to do it in China

You're right. Go on Skilab and fill a cart with one ski worth of materials. It comes to about $180 USD including or allowing for high quality stuff like 4001 base material or fat edges. Now take away retail mark up and buying materials at scale and you're probably at about $120 per pair of skis, $150 absolute max I'd say.

The BOM cost is actually really damn low - it's the R&D of putting together a design, paying the bloke who actually builds the ski, graphics, shop space rental, equipment purchase and maintenance, utilities bills, marketing, offering free shipping, etc. that contribute the majority of the final amount it costs a manufacturer to take a ski from conceptualisation to ready for bindings. Maybe take it with a grain of salt, but J says he sells his blemish skis 'at cost', which is $400. For a small company like J, ON3P, Moment, whatever, who are all around that $7-800 range, I think it's safe to say they make about $300 per ski (less in the early stages to pay off loans though, or if they're pouring lots into reinvestment). For the big manufacturers it's probably less. The comparisons are impossible to make though because their are so many variables and non compatible differences.

What about Malitia? Not sure. If they're going to sell at around $350 then I would assume they've got plenty of capital to play with and a low expectation from the lender of return, done very little R&D, cheap build and hardly any ability for customer support/warranty. Maybe they're funded by someone within the business, who knows - but I'd say no. They could be making good gear but IMO they've done a shit job of introducing themselves.

If I was revealing a ski company I would be giving away WAY more details about who I was and what I was offering; showing ski testing results, manufacturing details, a half decent website (so easy and costs nothing but a bit of time to put together), endorsement from some skiers - and no bullshit. No 'taking back skiing' or whatever that shit is. Customers in skiing are extremely speculative and breaking into the market is hard as hell, the mistakes are easy to pick and avoid in my opinion and lots of these guys make themselves look really amateurish. Do you want to be the next JLev or Scott Andrus? You need to work really fucking hard and be more passionate than you can imagine. This isn't easy and offering a low cost ski isn't how you win. You're gonna go out of business and your wife/girlfriend will hate you.

freshiesbrahYou're right. Go on Skilab and fill a cart with one ski worth of materials. It comes to about $180 USD including or allowing for high quality stuff like 4001 base material or fat edges. Now take away retail mark up and buying materials at scale and you're probably at about $120 per pair of skis, $150 absolute max I'd say.

The BOM cost is actually really damn low - it's the R&D of putting together a design, paying the bloke who actually builds the ski, graphics, shop space rental, equipment purchase and maintenance, utilities bills, marketing, offering free shipping, etc. that contribute the majority of the final amount it costs a manufacturer to take a ski from conceptualisation to ready for bindings. Maybe take it with a grain of salt, but J says he sells his blemish skis 'at cost', which is $400. For a small company like J, ON3P, Moment, whatever, who are all around that $7-800 range, I think it's safe to say they make about $300 per ski (less in the early stages to pay off loans though, or if they're pouring lots into reinvestment). For the big manufacturers it's probably less. The comparisons are impossible to make though because their are so many variables and non compatible differences.

What about Malitia? Not sure. If they're going to sell at around $350 then I would assume they've got plenty of capital to play with and a low expectation from the lender of return, done very little R&D, cheap build and hardly any ability for customer support/warranty. Maybe they're funded by someone within the business, who knows - but I'd say no. They could be making good gear but IMO they've done a shit job of introducing themselves.

If I was revealing a ski company I would be giving away WAY more details about who I was and what I was offering; showing ski testing results, manufacturing details, a half decent website (so easy and costs nothing but a bit of time to put together), endorsement from some skiers - and no bullshit. No 'taking back skiing' or whatever that shit is. Customers in skiing are extremely speculative and breaking into the market is hard as hell, the mistakes are easy to pick and avoid in my opinion and lots of these guys make themselves look really amateurish. Do you want to be the next JLev or Scott Andrus? You need to work really fucking hard and be more passionate than you can imagine. This isn't easy and offering a low cost ski isn't how you win. You're gonna go out of business and your wife/girlfriend will hate you.

+1

freshiesbrahDo you want to be the next JLev or Scott Andrus? You need to work really fucking hard and be more passionate than you can imagine. This isn't easy and offering a low cost ski isn't how you win. You're gonna go out of business and your wife/girlfriend will hate you.

.

freshiesbrahWhat about Malitia? Not sure. If they're going to sell at around $350 then I would assume they've got plenty of capital to play with and a low expectation from the lender of return, done very little R&D, cheap build and hardly any ability for customer support/warranty. Maybe they're funded by someone within the business, who knows - but I'd say no. They could be making good gear but IMO they've done a shit job of introducing themselves.

If I was revealing a ski company I would be giving away WAY more details about who I was and what I was offering; showing ski testing results, manufacturing details, a half decent website (so easy and costs nothing but a bit of time to put together), endorsement from some skiers - and no bullshit. No 'taking back skiing' or whatever that shit is. Customers in skiing are extremely speculative and breaking into the market is hard as hell, the mistakes are easy to pick and avoid in my opinion and lots of these guys make themselves look really amateurish. Do you want to be the next JLev or Scott Andrus? You need to work really fucking hard and be more passionate than you can imagine. This isn't easy and offering a low cost ski isn't how you win. You're gonna go out of business and your wife/girlfriend will hate you.

Breaking into the market this way is what other companies have done successfully. The only difference is that these prices are only for pre-orders instead of in-season purchase. I don't see as much of a problem with this as you do considering I trust what Militia has said and they have a product that actually holds up.

The last part you said is 100% true though.

parkplaygroundBreaking into the market this way is what other companies have done successfully. The only difference is that these prices are only for pre-orders instead of in-season purchase. I don't see as much of a problem with this as you do considering I trust what Militia has said and they have a product that actually holds up.

The last part you said is 100% true though.

Their mantra is 'affordable, quality skis'. These two things are mutually exclusive in my opinion. There are so many things that need to go right and be present in the equation for successfully​ skis this way. How much will their next set be? $450? $550? How much is 'affordable'? What's your differentiator in the market? When you aren't making enough margin to pay your bills, your staff, your debts, for your customer support, your reinvestment, and ultimately yourself, the business quickly falls apart. How long will you work without pay? If it's your side gig is the business getting enough attention to grow it effectively? Listen to Scott or Stephan Drake or Luke Jacobson on the Blister podcast and do an entry level accounting and finance class. It's not easy. It can be boring as fuck but there are real questions and demands that need to be answered to keep a business running. Just paying the rent and your staff is a massive expense. If you don't have to pay for any of the things that a normal manufacture does then good for you and good luck. I just don't want to see a 'Malitia messed up' thread on ski gabber in a year or two.

freshiesbrahTheir mantra is 'affordable, quality skis'. These two things are mutually exclusive in my opinion. There are so many things that need to go right and be present in the equation for successfully​ skis this way. How much will their next set be? $450? $550? How much is 'affordable'? What's your differentiator in the market? When you aren't making enough margin to pay your bills, your staff, your debts, for your customer support, your reinvestment, and ultimately yourself, the business quickly falls apart. How long will you work without pay? If it's your side gig is the business getting enough attention to grow it effectively? Listen to Scott or Stephan Drake or Luke Jacobson on the Blister podcast and do an entry level accounting and finance class. It's not easy. It can be boring as fuck but there are real questions and demands that need to be answered to keep a business running. Just paying the rent and your staff is a massive expense. If you don't have to pay for any of the things that a normal manufacture does then good for you and good luck. I just don't want to see a 'Malitia messed up' thread on ski gabber in a year or two.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there in season price 400 and 350 for the 2 skis that's affordable in my mind

freshiesbrahTheir mantra is 'affordable, quality skis'. These two things are mutually exclusive in my opinion. There are so many things that need to go right and be present in the equation for successfully​ skis this way. How much will their next set be? $450? $550? How much is 'affordable'? What's your differentiator in the market? When you aren't making enough margin to pay your bills, your staff, your debts, for your customer support, your reinvestment, and ultimately yourself, the business quickly falls apart. How long will you work without pay? If it's your side gig is the business getting enough attention to grow it effectively? Listen to Scott or Stephan Drake or Luke Jacobson on the Blister podcast and do an entry level accounting and finance class. It's not easy. It can be boring as fuck but there are real questions and demands that need to be answered to keep a business running. Just paying the rent and your staff is a massive expense. If you don't have to pay for any of the things that a normal manufacture does then good for you and good luck. I just don't want to see a 'Malitia messed up' thread on ski gabber in a year or two.

I agree with most of what you said besides your affordable point

Cole9I agree with most of what you said besides your affordable point

You can produce high quality skis and sell them cheap, sure, but that doesn't mean your business is sustainable.

freshiesbrahYou can produce high quality skis and sell them cheap, sure, but that doesn't mean your business is sustainable.

I agree with that

So many cynical people in here. Just use your common sense guys, at least they have contact information and are responding to comments at the moment. Pre orders don't necessarily seem like the most viable option for buying skis but when you can at least call them and talk to a person it makes you feel a bit more comfortable I feel

MurdockPre orders don't necessarily seem like the most viable option for buying skis but when you can at least call them and talk to a person it makes you feel a bit more comfortable I feel

Yeah, but you used to be able to call Revision and talk to Bill or another associate... until all of a sudden you couldn't

SharkoYeah, but you used to be able to call Revision and talk to Bill or another associate... until all of a sudden you couldn't

Very true lol

so no website yet?

wrichmondso no website yet?

Uh oh. Looks like the site and gram are no more.

Skora89Uh oh. Looks like the site and gram are no more.

This had to be the saddest start-up ski company yet.

Hopefully nobody pre-ordered from them lol

Uh oh.... website expired. Wonder if anyone who preordered got skis? I honestly didn't know people actually paid full price for skis these days anyway. Perhaps someone saw that nothing bad happened to Revision owners yet so they did the same thing again, with a twist. This sucks for skiing startups because who is gonna believe you're legit anymore, even if you are...

This whole preorder deal and argument for it seems bogus. How bout having smart accounting and managing money so you aren't living ski season to ski season and relying on preorders. No one likes a company with no cash reserves.

And their IG page is down too. Yup. Scammed em. Can't blame it on forgetting to pay the domain bill. That sucks so much for anyone who bought skis....

Hilarious

This is great