Welcome to the Newschoolers forums! You may read the forums as a guest, however you must be a registered member to post.
Register to become a member today!
I don't get this at all. I'm not about to go burn any flags, and some of the "I'm gonna burn a flag on instragram" people are annoying, but it doesn't bother me.
We seem to care more about the precious flag than the country sometimes.
This is absolutely ridiculous. Diehard conservatives swear to uphold and claim to be "Pro constitution" but then are totally fine with blatantly disregarding it when it suits them.
Hardcore conservatives think it's the meaning behind it. Should people burn the flag? No, I don't think so, that's blatantly disrespectful, but the Supreme Court says that people can burn flags as free speech.
I constantly wonder what our country would be like if people on both sides put this effort into their communities. What a waste of time and money burning flags, bitching about being richer than 99% of the world but being more poor than people with Lambo's, and talking about how tough it is to live in America.
Dustin.I constantly wonder what our country would be like if people on both sides put this effort into their communities. What a waste of time and money burning flags, bitching about being richer than 99% of the world but being more poor than people with Lambo's, and talking about how tough it is to live in America.
Ultimate douche move.
Here's the problem with that, then they would axtuakly have to put in hard work to make a difference. By burning flags and bitching they can feel like they're making a difference with very little effort. It requires too much effort to actually fix the problems and create a better community, they would rather "take a stand"
theBearJewHere's the problem with that, then they would axtuakly have to put in hard work to make a difference. By burning flags and bitching they can feel like they're making a difference with very little effort. It requires too much effort to actually fix the problems and create a better community, they would rather "take a stand"
"Those in power should fix things for me". It's an era of entitlement we are living in from the left to the right, old to the young, rich to the poor.
californiagrown"Those in power should fix things for me". It's an era of entitlement we are living in from the left to the right, old to the young, rich to the poor.
I just read an article about surprised pro-$15 citizens reacting to McDonald's automated ordering cash registers. To me this is hilarious, because those exist in pretty much every country I've been to but the US.
Dustin.I just read an article about surprised pro-$15 citizens reacting to McDonald's automated ordering cash registers. To me this is hilarious, because those exist in pretty much every country I've been to but the US.
It doesn't surprise me at all. I've been working as a line cook in fine dining restaurants and we all get paid 12-18 hourly. Meanwhile these fucking cucks who give you attitude and work a job with little to no skill demand $15 hour to press buttons on a microwave.
Sucks the cost of living keeps going up without an increase in the minimum, but on the other hand the market pays you what you're worth.
RedneckGravyIt doesn't surprise me at all. I've been working as a line cook in fine dining restaurants and we all get paid 12-18 hourly. Meanwhile these fucking cucks who give you attitude and work a job with little to no skill demand $15 hour to press buttons on a microwave.
Sucks the cost of living keeps going up without an increase in the minimum, but on the other hand the market pays you what you're worth.
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
An attack on the flag is a symbolic attack on the country itself. Burning the flag is the most idiotic thing you can do. They think this will change things? Besides pollution, what are they trying to accomplish? I am fully aware that people are pissed off about the country...
DirtYStylE"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
An attack on the flag is a symbolic attack on the country itself. Burning the flag is the most idiotic thing you can do. They think this will change things? Besides pollution, what are they trying to accomplish? I am fully aware that people are pissed off about the country...
The pledge of allegiance is stupid.
As if people who don't say some absurd pledge of allegiance to a flag are going to become communist spies and overthrow the government.
The pledge should be abolished asap. I'm honestly amazed it's still recited in schools.
RedneckGravyIt doesn't surprise me at all. I've been working as a line cook in fine dining restaurants and we all get paid 12-18 hourly. Meanwhile these fucking cucks who give you attitude and work a job with little to no skill demand $15 hour to press buttons on a microwave.
Sucks the cost of living keeps going up without an increase in the minimum, but on the other hand the market pays you what you're worth.
they're not demanding 15 dollars an hour because McDonalds work is hard. They're demanding 15 an hour because if at the current rate of inflation the minimum wage would be 18 dollars an hour. See the dilemma here?
Because there are different measures by which an action is moral or immoral, and different people are "tuned" to intuitively believe that some categories are more or less important than others. Conservatives place a higher moral value on authority and loyalty than libertarians or leftists do.
That is why you might think "this is no big deal", while to someone whose moral intuitions are just set up differently from yours, it's shockingly awful. This is also one of a number of reasons that people who adhere to different political ideologies seem to be speaking different languages a lot of the time.
DirtYStylEThe pledge was abolished for the most part. If you don't stand for your country you are standing against it. Ever heard of a Mantra?
Standing for your country and recite some archaic pledge are not the same thing.
Shockingly you can care about your country without having 75 flags on your property and blasting god bless america everywhere you drive.
Also it's kind of fucked up that people have cared so much about the pledge, which says things like "liberty and justice for all" unless you're a different ski color, gay or even a woman.
But oh god don't forget to take your hat off during the anthem, recite the pledge, buy that 50' flag for your yard, all the while oppressing people that are different.
Gotta love america. People get all bent out of shape about the symbols, but don't seem to care as much about the actually country or the people living within it.
theabortionatorStanding for your country and recite some archaic pledge are not the same thing.
Shockingly you can care about your country without having 75 flags on your property and blasting god bless america everywhere you drive.
Also it's kind of fucked up that people have cared so much about the pledge, which says things like "liberty and justice for all" unless you're a different ski color, gay or even a woman.
But oh god don't forget to take your hat off during the anthem, recite the pledge, buy that 50' flag for your yard, all the while oppressing people that are different.
Gotta love america. People get all bent out of shape about the symbols, but don't seem to care as much about the actually country or the people living within it.
Physically standing and verbally expressing your patriotism is not enough? Please enlighten me on the other ways that you can "care" about your county.
English 101: symbols are the basis for communication. Symbolism is the use of symbols to signify ideas and qualities by giving them symbolic meanings that are different from their literal sense. Symbolism can take different forms. Generally, it is an object representing another to give it an entirely different meaning that is much deeper and more significant.
DirtYStylEPhysically standing and verbally expressing your patriotism is not enough? Please enlighten me on the other ways that you can "care" about your county.
English 101: symbols are the basis for communication. Symbolism is the use of symbols to signify ideas and qualities by giving them symbolic meanings that are different from their literal sense. Symbolism can take different forms. Generally, it is an object representing another to give it an entirely different meaning that is much deeper and more significant.
Why don't you go start a USA chant somewhere and punch anyone who doesn't join in for not being american enough.
Freedom and eagles and stuff
I had a sick mullet a few years ago. Is that not patriotic enough for you?
theabortionatorWhy don't you go start a USA chant somewhere and punch anyone who doesn't join in for not being american enough.
Freedom and eagles and stuff
I had a sick mullet a few years ago. Is that not patriotic enough for you?
I would gladly punch someone for disgracing the sovereignty of my nation if I didn't face jail time.
You do you man haha mullets are pretty rad
brotoYo did you steal this poster off my seventh grade English teachers wall?
You caught me. I am a thief of knowledge.
and to further my argument...
The flag is a symbol of our nation. The deeper meaning (for me at least) is the pledge of allegience. When I look at the flag, the pledge is always at the forefront of my mind.
S.J.Wthey're not demanding 15 dollars an hour because McDonalds work is hard. They're demanding 15 an hour because if at the current rate of inflation the minimum wage would be 18 dollars an hour. See the dilemma here?
If we were taxed less, the livable wage would be lower. Raising wages is essentially inflation.. Not to mention that according to economics there will be an oversupply of labor if you raise the wage..less people working, more people wanting to work
milk_manNot to mention that according to economics there will be an oversupply of labor if you raise the wage..less people working, more people wanting to work
What? That's the problem dude... there's already too many people and not enough jobs. That's why companies can extort the shit out of their employees, because they know some other desperate dude will be willing to come in and do it for lower pay. Human labor is being devalued by automation very quickly. Wait til driverless trucks hits the shipping industry or until every fast food worker is replaced by a machine. Arguing that fast food workers don't deserve the minimum wage hikes they're fighting for is missing the point entirely. Jobs are disappearing to automation and they're not coming back. It's an employers maket and it has been for decades.
milk_manIf we were taxed less, the livable wage would be lower. Raising wages is essentially inflation.. Not to mention that according to economics there will be an oversupply of labor if you raise the wage..less people working, more people wanting to work
Even if we taxed at 0% for minimum wage workers. Do you seriously think you can live on $320 a week for a full time weeks worth of work? Or $640 for two people? And no, not according to economics there will be an oversupply of labour. That is a gross over simplification of economics. An employer needs X amount of staff to cover Y amount of orders to make $ profit. If the minimum wage was raised depending on the price elasticity of an item the employer could either rise the price, or take less profit. According to calculations Purdue University, it would raise the price of menu items 4.16%. That's around 2 years worth of inflation for a product. And people don't really notice inflation on Big Macs, but rather on larger investments like cars and houses. Don't tell me you're going to notice a 14 cents increase in the price of your big mac.
Also as far as the argument for inflation goes, a lot of these fast food workers are already on food stamps. However, instead of the government feeding these people, the onus will now shift to the incredibly over paid CEO's and board members that make up restaurants like McDonald's. It's not the government's responsibility to feed people, however the current failing system makes it the government's responsibility. Would you rather have McDonalds make less profit/ pay 16 cents more for a big mac. Or a section of the budget dedicated to putting food on people's tables? That's money that could be spent on better things, like a big wall.
S.J.WEven if we taxed at 0% for minimum wage workers. Do you seriously think you can live on $320 a week for a full time weeks worth of work? Or $640 for two people? And no, not according to economics there will be an oversupply of labour. That is a gross over simplification of economics. An employer needs X amount of staff to cover Y amount of orders to make $ profit. If the minimum wage was raised depending on the price elasticity of an item the employer could either rise the price, or take less profit. According to calculations Purdue University, it would raise the price of menu items 4.16%. That's around 2 years worth of inflation for a product. And people don't really notice inflation on Big Macs, but rather on larger investments like cars and houses. Don't tell me you're going to notice a 14 cents increase in the price of your big mac.
Also as far as the argument for inflation goes, a lot of these fast food workers are already on food stamps. However, instead of the government feeding these people, the onus will now shift to the incredibly over paid CEO's and board members that make up restaurants like McDonald's. It's not the government's responsibility to feed people, however the current failing system makes it the government's responsibility. Would you rather have McDonalds make less profit/ pay 16 cents more for a big mac. Or a section of the budget dedicated to putting food on people's tables? That's money that could be spent on better things, like a big wall.
According to economics when wages are forced higher there is even more of an oversupply of labor and less people looking to hire. McDonald's is already looking into having people order through a screen instead of a person. They would have an incentive to do that if wages were pushed to $15/hour. Your theory is that existing jobs will stay the same and no one will get fired. That's simply not true.. My aunt owns a small business and I know for a fact they can't afford to pay all their employees $15/hour.
And yeah, if you have an inelastic product you can simply raise your price to cover the extra wages. Let's talk about how expensive healthcare already is. And let's talk about the multitude of businesses that don't have inelastic products and could very well go out of business.
DirtYStylEPhysically standing and verbally expressing your patriotism is not enough? Please enlighten me on the other ways that you can "care" about your county.
Hmm how about actively ensuring that there is liberty and justice for all in this country through activism?
Reciting an antiquated but not very traditional pledge of allegiance may soothe your conscience, but it doesn't do shit to help this country.
DirtYStylE"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
Call me old fashioned, but I prefer the original US pledge- "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all".
If you want to have a patriotic pledge, this is one is simpler, more succinct, and more in-line with the Founding Fathers' wishes.
It's great people can do whatever they want; that's a really awesome thing. If I saw someone in public trampling or burning Old Glory I would most certainly kick them in the genitals though.
Twinjibber77It's great people can do whatever they want; that's a really awesome thing. If I saw someone in public trampling or burning Old Glory I would most certainly kick them in the genitals though.
Why is that. Obviously you do not believe in first amendment rights i guess, huh. Don't infringe on another person's rights.
DirtYStylEI would gladly punch someone for disgracing the sovereignty of my nation if I didn't face jail time.
You do you man haha mullets are pretty rad
You caught me. I am a thief of knowledge.
and to further my argument...
The flag is a symbol of our nation. The deeper meaning (for me at least) is the pledge of allegience. When I look at the flag, the pledge is always at the forefront of my mind.
So if you don't believe in God does that make the pledge invalid?
milk_manAccording to economics when wages are forced higher there is even more of an oversupply of labor and less people looking to hire. McDonald's is already looking into having people order through a screen instead of a person. They would have an incentive to do that if wages were pushed to $15/hour. Your theory is that existing jobs will stay the same and no one will get fired. That's simply not true.. My aunt owns a small business and I know for a fact they can't afford to pay all their employees $15/hour.
And yeah, if you have an inelastic product you can simply raise your price to cover the extra wages. Let's talk about how expensive healthcare already is. And let's talk about the multitude of businesses that don't have inelastic products and could very well go out of business.
holy shit, McDonalds have risen prices before. No one is going to notice 16 cents on their big mac. It's 16 fucking cents. In 2008 a box of corn flakes cost 3 dollars. Now for the same box one year later they cost $3.79. Did kellogg's go out of a business? No because it's such a minimal increase in price. Let's have a look at the Big Mac. It cost 4.07 in 2011, now costs $4.20 (according to big mac index). Where is the supposed failure of McDonald's business you seem to be implying if they push prices up.
And as far as your aunt. Great anecdotal claim. Maybe if the US government did their job and raised the minimum wage with inflation we wouldn't be in this mess of choosing between a small business and people putting food on the table. But who do you think is more important? Your grandma who will go out of business, or the millions of Americans who work for companies like Wal-Mart, McDonald's and other multi billion dollar companies? But since you like using case studies. I find it funny how you'll say Walmart and other companies will put people out of work, when those giant megastores are the ones who put alot of small business owners out of work in the first place.
milk_manAccording to economics when wages are forced higher there is even more of an oversupply of labor and less people looking to hire. McDonald's is already looking into having people order through a screen instead of a person. They would have an incentive to do that if wages were pushed to $15/hour. Your theory is that existing jobs will stay the same and no one will get fired. That's simply not true.. My aunt owns a small business and I know for a fact they can't afford to pay all their employees $15/hour.
And yeah, if you have an inelastic product you can simply raise your price to cover the extra wages. Let's talk about how expensive healthcare already is. And let's talk about the multitude of businesses that don't have inelastic products and could very well go out of business.
Among many things, you're neglecting the change in business turnover rates. The basic S/D model for W/L costs is too basic to account for this. You need to remember microeconomic efficiency matters.
Consider the worker at McDonalds for instance. He is paid $10/hr in MA, the minimum wage. He hates his job, and quits. McDonalds now has to higher someone new, train them to do the work the original worker did, and then pay them. That isn't efficient, that loses a company money ($4,700 per worker actually).
because they are brought up with such forced patriotism that the flag becomes so sacred to them that they lose their minds whenever its not treated perfectly.
S.J.Wholy shit, McDonalds have risen prices before. No one is going to notice 16 cents on their big mac. It's 16 fucking cents. In 2008 a box of corn flakes cost 3 dollars. Now for the same box one year later they cost $3.79. Did kellogg's go out of a business? No because it's such a minimal increase in price. Let's have a look at the Big Mac. It cost 4.07 in 2011, now costs $4.20 (according to big mac index). Where is the supposed failure of McDonald's business you seem to be implying if they push prices up.
And as far as your aunt. Great anecdotal claim. Maybe if the US government did their job and raised the minimum wage with inflation we wouldn't be in this mess of choosing between a small business and people putting food on the table. But who do you think is more important? Your grandma who will go out of business, or the millions of Americans who work for companies like Wal-Mart, McDonald's and other multi billion dollar companies? But since you like using case studies. I find it funny how you'll say Walmart and other companies will put people out of work, when those giant megastores are the ones who put alot of small business owners out of work in the first place.
I don't care about the higher prices. That isn't what puts them out of business.
It's interesting how the people who say big corporations are bad are the same ones who are in favor of raising the minimum wage.. because raising the minimum wage more or less puts small businesses out of business and gives a larger market share to big corporations. Like, is that what you really want? That's definitely not what I want.
Minimum wage is livable for awhile. If you plan to live your entire life on minimum wage, you should probably get used to a sucky lifestyle. Or move somewhere with better wages? Or stay with one company, be a productive worker, and get raises? It's not rocket science
milk_manI don't care about the higher prices. That isn't what puts them out of business.
It's interesting how the people who say big corporations are bad are the same ones who are in favor of raising the minimum wage.. because raising the minimum wage more or less puts small businesses out of business and gives a larger market share to big corporations. Like, is that what you really want? That's definitely not what I want.
Minimum wage is livable for awhile. If you plan to live your entire life on minimum wage, you should probably get used to a sucky lifestyle. Or move somewhere with better wages? Or stay with one company, be a productive worker, and get raises? It's not rocket science
Are you in favor of raising minimum wages in relation to the cost of living in an area?
Milk_Man you're thinking of the economy like a chess board, static. An increase in minimum wages will result in higher prices goods. Now, the level is almost certainly not 1:1, wages will increase more than prices (I'll dig up the paper later if you want). So sure, wage rates now are cutting into bottom line meaning people are laid off.
However, what about the increase in consumption? The increased investment? Don't just look at the increase through the scope of job gains or losses, look at the greater economy. Yes lower skill workers will be squeezed and that needs to be accounted for, but increasing consumption is great for the economy. It means there may be positions opening up in other areas for these low skilled workers.
milk_manI don't care about the higher prices. That isn't what puts them out of business.
It's interesting how the people who say big corporations are bad are the same ones who are in favor of raising the minimum wage.. because raising the minimum wage more or less puts small businesses out of business and gives a larger market share to big corporations. Like, is that what you really want? That's definitely not what I want.
Minimum wage is livable for awhile. If you plan to live your entire life on minimum wage, you should probably get used to a sucky lifestyle. Or move somewhere with better wages? Or stay with one company, be a productive worker, and get raises? It's not rocket science
Did you read the case study I posted? It outlined in there that small businesses are more or less not affected by an increase in wages. There's a few reasons for this. Small business usually pay more than the required minimum wage.
And holy slippery slope fallacy. You can't base your entire argument on grade 11 economics class. Just because we increase wages doesn't mean unemployment will rise. This is shown by seattle, and there's not even a a consensus among economists what a 10 dollar minimum wage will do. Yes 15 is too high. Most economists will agree on that. But that's how bargaining works, when you talk to your boss about increasing your wage, do you tell him you want 15 cents increase per hour, knowing he'll go halves in that. Or do you tell her, you want 7 cents an hour increase. It's the same with the back packer tax here in Australia the LNP wanted 30% and settled on 15% which was what they wanted. I'd be very surprised if the people behind fight for 15 actually thought they could get 15 dollars an hour, and weren't just over estimating what they wanted knowing the power of bargaining.
Minimum wage should be a livable wage, and yes your life will be shit. But there is no reason a mum working 44 hours a week shouldn't be able to put food on the table, pay rent and pay her bills. How is a person who is living pay check to paycheck going to scrape enough money to move to somewhere like Seattle? No job, no house, no money, nothing. How is someone with nothing to their name going to find money to move?
And my last point is about crime. What causes crime? Majority of crime is caused by poverty, if you increase the people living outside of poverty you decrease crime. And this is probably the biggest point everyone over looks. Look at the crime rates in Chicago, New York and other incredibly expensive cities to live in. If you decrease poverty, you decrease crime.
californiagrownAre you in favor of raising minimum wages in relation to the cost of living in an area?
Maybe. They usually follow the cost of living anyway, a lot of times. My sister lives in San Francisco and they have to pay more than minimum wage at mcdonalds (I believe) because it's absurdly expensive to live there. I live in an area that's very good for workers. Most places are thriving and pay more than minimum wage. This is the way it should be.
As for a single mom working over 40 hours a week, it would make more sense to have tax dollars go specifically to them, to increase their wage. Not like welfare. But added onto their paycheck. This would make way more sense because it would help the ones who need help, while not really hurting anyone.
Yeah a $10 minimum wage would probably be fine. I'm not saying that any increase is terrible. I was mostly addressing $15/hour. That's absurd.
milk_manMaybe. They usually follow the cost of living anyway, a lot of times. My sister lives in San Francisco and they have to pay more than minimum wage at mcdonalds (I believe) because it's absurdly expensive to live there. I live in an area that's very good for workers. Most places are thriving and pay more than minimum wage. This is the way it should be.
As for a single mom working over 40 hours a week, it would make more sense to have tax dollars go specifically to them, to increase their wage. Not like welfare. But added onto their paycheck. This would make way more sense because it would help the ones who need help, while not really hurting anyone.
Yeah a $10 minimum wage would probably be fine. I'm not saying that any increase is terrible. I was mostly addressing $15/hour. That's absurd.
So instead of food stamps you would rather give the single mom more money on her paycheck? Seriously?
FWIW I think that minimum wage should be adjusted to be a percentage of the standard cost of living in the city where the job is. That would mean if your grandma has her store in a nicer area, she would likely have to pay more in wages, and also charge more. Curiously what does her store sell?
californiagrownSo instead of food stamps you would rather give the single mom more money on her paycheck? Seriously?
FWIW I think that minimum wage should be adjusted to be a percentage of the standard cost of living in the city where the job is. That would mean if your grandma has her store in a nicer area, she would likely have to pay more in wages, and also charge more. Curiously what does her store sell?
Wait, I'm confused.. My grandma doesn't own any store? My aunt owns a small ski area though