Mr.BishopExactly. This whole thing started from the conversation of whether up/down votes were the harbinger of doom for conversation. We'll have to see if there's an effect and then look at it from there.

From all the discussions it seems like things are pretty split. Some people love it, some people hate it.

Maybe we should even run an experiment of removing downvotes entirely... they seem to be the thing that everyone bitches about so much.

Mr.BishopYeah that is kind of where I'm at with this. The voting really doesn't have much effect on conversation as far as I can tell. Its a separate kind of thing for people... those who want to have discussion will do so.

The only thing I have gotten out of this though is that we've taken a massively deep dive into the voting system, and it really seems that a lot of people use the downvoting system to disagree vs. rate the quality of a post. It seems that upvoting is far less so - people will upvote and post.... but love silently downvoting to show their disagreement.

I'm pretty close to saying we should just abandon downvoting entirely. Too many silent angry people out there who just throw a downvote to either disagree or fuck with someone else's post. It doesn't affect the ranking algorithms, but it sure seems to hurt people's feelings when they get downvoted.

I'm definitely somewhat intrigued by removing downvoting. The good content will still rise because it will get upvotes, and the haters will either comment to express being upset or do nothing at all. People are more likely to speak out when their emotions are stirred, so when there's a banger video or something funny you see so many positive comments, but forcing people to state their negative comments by it being their only way to do so could be interesting.

For example, there's an individual who downvotes pretty much everything in the news section that isn't a story or interview. Now are my feelings hurt when my story about record snowfall is downvoted? Not at all, but it certainly impacts the order of top content which is annoying.

ericaI'm definitely somewhat intrigued by removing downvoting. The good content will still rise because it will get upvotes, and the haters will either comment to express being upset or do nothing at all. People are more likely to speak out when their emotions are stirred, so when there's a banger video or something funny you see so many positive comments, but forcing people to state their negative comments by it being their only way to do so could be interesting.

For example, there's an individual who downvotes pretty much everything in the news section that isn't a story or interview. Now are my feelings hurt when my story about record snowfall is downvoted? Not at all, but it certainly impacts the order of top content which is annoying.

Yeah I mean I was being a touch sarcasting with the "feelings hurt" comment - but what you're saying is exactly it. There's so few downvotes that actually get used properly, it would likely be far better for the person sitting there in angry silence at the piece of shit they feel needs to be punished if they had to contribute a comment to get their anger out.

As well, we've been running tests on the ranking system, and it seems like the math behind it checks out if we were to stop having downvotes to be tabulated.

It actually would work far better with downvotes if people used them properly, but so far the research is showing that it isn't being used in the fashion intended.

Its also kind of funny because the downvotes don't actually have nearly as much effect on the rankings as people think, but it really throws off trust of the system when you get one improperly used downvote and it *seems* like it threw off the ranking.

Mr.BishopReally the problem with downvotes is that it's supposed to mark a lack of quality, but it seems to be rarely used for this.

Besides... shouldn't we be wanting more pussy on the site?

Unfortunately, the pussy you are referring to in this post is much different than the pussy being discussed in my post.. The pussy we want more of can only be found in the donator's forums ;)

I think you may be narrow minded in what dictates quality. A downvoted post could simply be a shitty post, or it could be an unpopular opinion, or false information (think gear talk), it could be a shitty troll, etc.. No?

Randy_QuenchUnfortunately, the pussy you are referring to in this post is much different than the pussy being discussed in my post.. The pussy we want more of can only be found in the donator's forums ;)

I think you may be narrow minded in what dictates quality. A downvoted post could simply be a shitty post, or it could be an unpopular opinion, or false information (think gear talk), it could be a shitty troll, etc.. No?

I've been doing analysis of all the posts for the last few years. That's literally one of my job functions every single day.

So I recognize the difference between a shitty post and people who exhibit patterns of mass downvoting for personal gain or to specifically target users.

Mr.BishopSo I recognize the difference between a shitty post and people who exhibit patterns of mass downvoting for personal gain or to specifically target users.

I understand the drawbacks of people downvoting media related content for personal gain, but really what are people personally gaining by downvoting a forum post? Isn't the voting on forum posts unrelated to karma?

I guess I really just have a strong opinion that users need to own up to their posts, brilliant or bullshit. Learn from your shitty posts rather than bitch and complain about being downvoted.

Randy_QuenchI guess I really just have a strong opinion that users need to own up to their posts, brilliant or bullshit. Learn from your shitty posts rather than bitch and complain about being downvoted.

I'm with you - and I actually think we agree in the end.

The downvote is such a cop out way of calling out a shitty post. If it's really that shitty, you should get in there and pwn that n00b for it with words. Much more effective than a silent downvote.

Really, the silent downvote is the bitch made way to go about making a user own up to a post. That is one of the reasons I've been thinking we should get rid of it. The upvote is just a nice little karma boost, but if someone should go down they should be brought down like a fucking man... not in some pussified silent downvoting bullshit.

Mr.BishopI'm with you - and I actually think we agree in the end.

The downvote is such a cop out way of calling out a shitty post. If it's really that shitty, you should get in there and pwn that n00b for it with words. Much more effective than a silent downvote.

Really, the silent downvote is the bitch made way to go about making a user own up to a post. That is one of the reasons I've been thinking we should get rid of it. The upvote is just a nice little karma boost, but if someone should go down they should be brought down like a fucking man... not in some pussified silent downvoting bullshit.

im with ya there

i dont care if downvotes go away but yeah you should def leave upvotes. otherwise, lots of good and/or informative posts go unsupported unless someone quotes it just to say they agree, which is unnecessary with upvotes

SofaKingSickim with ya there

i dont care if downvotes go away but yeah you should def leave upvotes. otherwise, lots of good and/or informative posts go unsupported unless someone quotes it just to say they agree, which is unnecessary with upvotes

That is both where I'm leaning with this, and what the data is looking like it says. People for the most part either add something or give it quiet props (which Gives Karma) and the downvotes are only used for disagreement or personal gain.

Im kinda hyped they are both back, good call bishop

So we're back into the slow months of NS. Bishop, mods, thoughts on everything? Did you see any kind of change in forum posting between no upvotes and their reintroduction?

I was very much in favor of keeping up/downvotes gone forever, but honestly once we got into the height of the season I didn't feel like they took away from discussion enough to notice.

treebeardSo we're back into the slow months of NS. Bishop, mods, thoughts on everything? Did you see any kind of change in forum posting between no upvotes and their reintroduction?

I was very much in favor of keeping up/downvotes gone forever, but honestly once we got into the height of the season I didn't feel like they took away from discussion enough to notice.

The Data basically is inconclusive as to what is better... though in a way that is conclusive because nothing much really in aggregate over time has seemed to happen after we've tried both having them and not having them.

So my feeling is that basically this is a non-issue. Having or not having up/down voting on forum posts has nothing to do with conversation.

Mr.BishopThe Data basically is inconclusive as to what is better... though in a way that is conclusive because nothing much really in aggregate over time has seemed to happen after we've tried both having them and not having them.

So my feeling is that basically this is a non-issue. Having or not having up/down voting on forum posts has nothing to do with conversation.

good shit