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NinetyFourWax your bases with a warm temp wax, and scrape them while they're still hot. Repeat until clean, then wax them with the appropriate temperature wax.
thanks man, if it's just a couple of mud spot should I still do this or there an easier route?
-notch-thanks man, if it's just a couple of mud spot should I still do this or there an easier route?
If there is visible mud on your bases, then take a wet rag and wipe off all of it off. This will not mean that the mud is gone, as it will be deep in your base, and you will need to do what NinetyFour has described in order to get it all out.
Do not use chemical products called "base cleaners" on your bases as they will dry them out, and dissolve any wax that may be in your bases. Always clean your bases via the hot scrape method described above.
WillowsYou could use a brass brush and brush the dirt out and then wax you skis
onenerdykidIf there is visible mud on your bases, then take a wet rag and wipe off all of it off. This will not mean that the mud is gone, as it will be deep in your base, and you will need to do what NinetyFour has described in order to get it all out.
Do not use chemical products called "base cleaners" on your bases as they will dry them out, and dissolve any wax that may be in your bases. Always clean your bases via the hot scrape method described above.
I'll try using the brass brush, thanks homie.
I'll try the wet rag also and do the hot scrape method later this week. Wasn't planning on using any base cleaners either, but thanks for the help. would give karma but already at 10/10
NinetyFourWax your bases with a warm temp wax, and scrape them while they're still hot. Repeat until clean, then wax them with the appropriate temperature wax.
WillowsYou could use a brass brush and brush the dirt out and then wax you skis
onenerdykidIf there is visible mud on your bases, then take a wet rag and wipe off all of it off. This will not mean that the mud is gone, as it will be deep in your base, and you will need to do what NinetyFour has described in order to get it all out.
Do not use chemical products called "base cleaners" on your bases as they will dry them out, and dissolve any wax that may be in your bases. Always clean your bases via the hot scrape method described above.
alright so it was my first day skiing on them yesterday, so there should still be a solid amount of wax on them.
the new problem is I was using a rag to wipe the bases, ON3P, and the rag was an old black shirt or something and the dye kind of rubbed off in the white on the base. will this come out? purely cosmetic and probably doesn't affect the ski but I really hate having the black streak
That is kind of a weird one. I would think it would come out with time if you're skiing them and waxing/tuning whenever is necessary. I'll admit though, I'm not 100% on that.
-notch-alright so it was my first day skiing on them yesterday, so there should still be a solid amount of wax on them.
the new problem is I was using a rag to wipe the bases, ON3P, and the rag was an old black shirt or something and the dye kind of rubbed off in the white on the base. will this come out? purely cosmetic and probably doesn't affect the ski but I really hate having the black streak
Is it deeply embedded in the soles. If not you could try a soft brush and soap
onenerdykidIf there is visible mud on your bases, then take a wet rag and wipe off all of it off. This will not mean that the mud is gone, as it will be deep in your base, and you will need to do what NinetyFour has described in order to get it all out.
Do not use chemical products called "base cleaners" on your bases as they will dry them out, and dissolve any wax that may be in your bases. Always clean your bases via the hot scrape method described above.
Well, I just learned something new about base cleaners. I've never used them on my own skis but some of my friends have on theirs. Thanks for sharing
NinetyFourThat is kind of a weird one. I would think it would come out with time if you're skiing them and waxing/tuning whenever is necessary. I'll admit though, I'm not 100% on that.
WillowsIs it deeply embedded in the soles. If not you could try a soft brush and soap
DingoSeanIt's mud. Just use a hose.
Hose won't work, it's not just sitting on the top sheet, it's in the base and the wax.
The brush kind of just spread the mud around, it went from a mud spot to like a dirty area. I'm just going to do the hot scrape method instead.
94 I'm hoping it will come out after a couple hot scrapes but you never know.
chuckmartyWell, I just learned something new about base cleaners. I've never used them on my own skis but some of my friends have on theirs. Thanks for sharing
Apparently, there are some new chemical base cleaners that will not eat your wax but I don't trust them. Base cleaners definitely do clean your base, but they dissolve the wax that is in your base too. If you have nice sintered bases that you regularly hot wax, then stay away from the base cleaners. You'll never do any harm to your bases by hot scraping, while the same cannot be said for using base cleaners.
onenerdykidApparently, there are some new chemical base cleaners that will not eat your wax but I don't trust them. Base cleaners definitely do clean your base, but they dissolve the wax that is in your base too. If you have nice sintered bases that you regularly hot wax, then stay away from the base cleaners. You'll never do any harm to your bases by hot scraping, while the same cannot be said for using base cleaners.
Agreed....I never put any chemicals on my base to clean it (base cleaner, very neutral cleaners, etc).
I wax quite often so it never gets that dirty...but if it does i'll just wax and scrape a couple times and it usually cleans.
onenerdykidApparently, there are some new chemical base cleaners that will not eat your wax but I don't trust them. Base cleaners definitely do clean your base, but they dissolve the wax that is in your base too. If you have nice sintered bases that you regularly hot wax, then stay away from the base cleaners. You'll never do any harm to your bases by hot scraping, while the same cannot be said for using base cleaners.
OP did say he was doing "Grass and Mud riding" So i dont think the bases matter that much haha. but if he did use a base cleaner couldnt he just clean them after with a brush and warm water to get rid of that residue?
onenerdykidApparently, there are some new chemical base cleaners that will not eat your wax but I don't trust them. Base cleaners definitely do clean your base, but they dissolve the wax that is in your base too. If you have nice sintered bases that you regularly hot wax, then stay away from the base cleaners. You'll never do any harm to your bases by hot scraping, while the same cannot be said for using base cleaners.
I recently talked to one of my snowboarder friends about base cleaners and told him what you said- that they dry out the bases and dissolve the wax and his response was "yeah, that's the point". I didn't really have a response for that since it seemed pretty stupid. I basically told him, "no, that's the opposite of what you want". FYI this guy likes to think he knows everything about everything and if he doesn't, he lies and pretends he does.
What's a good, educated rebuttal to his "yeah, that's the point" statement?
onenerdykidApparently, there are some new chemical base cleaners that will not eat your wax but I don't trust them. Base cleaners definitely do clean your base, but they dissolve the wax that is in your base too. If you have nice sintered bases that you regularly hot wax, then stay away from the base cleaners. You'll never do any harm to your bases by hot scraping, while the same cannot be said for using base cleaners.
This, I've worked with a few of wax developers and they all think base cleaners are best avoided. The stuff can say in the pores of the base and ins't easy to remove.
chuckmartyI recently talked to one of my snowboarder friends about base cleaners and told him what you said- that they dry out the bases and dissolve the wax and his response was "yeah, that's the point". I didn't really have a response for that since it seemed pretty stupid. I basically told him, "no, that's the opposite of what you want". FYI this guy likes to think he knows everything about everything and if he doesn't, he lies and pretends he does.
What's a good, educated rebuttal to his "yeah, that's the point" statement?
Your friend is the kind of stupid that can't be fixed.
chuckmartyI recently talked to one of my snowboarder friends about base cleaners and told him what you said- that they dry out the bases and dissolve the wax and his response was "yeah, that's the point". I didn't really have a response for that since it seemed pretty stupid. I basically told him, "no, that's the opposite of what you want". FYI this guy likes to think he knows everything about everything and if he doesn't, he lies and pretends he does.
What's a good, educated rebuttal to his "yeah, that's the point" statement?
Base cleaners will definitely do a good job at removing dirt from your base, but they also remove the wax. This is bad because creating a fast base requires a lot of hot waxing and this takes time. Your sintered base is like a sponge and it will absorb wax, thus making your base faster and more durable. The more you wax, the faster your base will be. It takes lots of time and money to do this.
So: more wax = faster base = a lot of time waxing. If you use base cleaner to clean your base, yes they will be clean but then all of wax is dissolved. You just negated all of the time & money you spent on waxing your base and now you have to start all over again.
rozboonTell me more about these pores in ski bases.......
This won't be the most detailed explanation but from my understanding the base of a ski is like a sponge. Heat it up with the iron (with wax on the ski, duh) and the base expands and absorbs the wax as it cools. Imagine putting a sponge underwater, squeezing it, and watching it absorb water as it expands. That's how bases work (correct me if I'm totally off my nut, but I think that's right).
As the wax/base of the ski cools, the wax condenses and works its way into all the tiny pores of the base. It's important to let the ski cool at room temperature because if you toss it outside in the cold hoping for it to cool quicker it will do just that, but that won't give the wax adequate time to get absorbed into the base. This means the wax won't last as long and you'll just have to re-wax your skis sooner than if you'd let them cool at room temp.
rozboonTell me more about these pores in ski bases.......
I used a simple word so people would understand the concept of how wax bonds to ultra high molecular weight plastics. But since you seem set on being pedantic / stupid / difficult. I shall re phrase it, base cleaner can become trapped in the bases structure and interfere with the way it works.
The base structure is designed to retain wax and depending on how the wax compound works the structure of the base will interact differently with the snow. for instance some structures and waxes work on a hydrophilic level and some on a hydrophobic level. Solvents such as those found in base cleaners disrupt the process as they break down the compounds in waxes and render the base inert. I could go on...
chuckmartycorrect me if I'm totally off my nut, but I think that's right
I was just being painful, yes, off your nut.
LamafamaI used a simple word so people would understand the concept of how wax bonds to ultra high molecular weight plastics. But since you seem set on being pedantic / stupid / difficult. I shall re phrase it, base cleaner can become trapped in the bases structure and interfere with the way it works.
Rather you used a simple word that perpetuates a myth continued by wax companies.
Film adhesion and an extremely low level of surface dilution are completely different concepts to the continually believed "pores" myth, as evidenced by the post above.
LamafamaThe base structure is designed to retain wax and depending on how the wax compound works the structure of the base will interact differently with the snow. for instance some structures and waxes work on a hydrophilic level and some on a hydrophobic level. Solvents such as those found in base cleaners disrupt the process as they break down the compounds in waxes and render the base inert. I could go on...
The base structure, as you say, is designed to either repel or retain water to maximise glide in different snow conditions. Nothing to do with wax.
I'd love to hear more about this "render the base inert" bit. As opposed to what? Is the base normally reactive? Wouldn't rendering it inert be a good thing?
There is so much witchcraft and bollocks associated with this area of skiing, from a whole lot of people who should know better.
rozboonRather you used a simple word that perpetuates a myth continued by wax companies. Film adhesion and an extremely low level of surface dilution are completely different concepts to the continually believed "pores" myth, as evidenced by the post above.
The base structure, as you say, is designed to either repel or retain water to maximise glide in different snow conditions. Nothing to do with wax.
I'd love to hear more about this "render the base inert" bit. As opposed to what? Is the base normally reactive? Wouldn't rendering it inert be a good thing? There is so much witchcraft and bollocks associated with this area of skiing, from a whole lot of people who should know better.
Which craft or balls it is not old chap, its pretty simple. You don't seem to understand how wax and structure are linked. The base won't do that on its own, it needs a friction activated wax to enable it act as a hydrophilic. Same reason in fresh snow you want the base to act as a hydrophobic & anti static.
Different structures affect how wax performs and are needed for different conditions. Same way for man made snow you would polish your edges more than for fresh snow. To be utterly pedantic the base does have pores as that is what retains the wax in the structure, the main purpose of structure is to remove any vacuum effect from under the base.
LamafamaWhich craft or balls it is not old chap, its pretty simple. You don't seem to understand how wax and structure are linked. The base won't do that on its own, it needs a friction activated wax to enable it act as a hydrophilic. Same reason in fresh snow you want the base to act as a hydrophobic & anti static.
Different structures affect how wax performs and are needed for different conditions. Same way for man made snow you would polish your edges more than for fresh snow. To be utterly pedantic the base does have pores as that is what retains the wax in the structure, the main purpose of structure is to remove any vacuum effect from under the base.
The base absolutely will act in a hydrophobic/hydrophilic manner solely through the use of structuring. How do you think car tyres work to displace water? They don't require wax to do it, the principles at work are exactly the same. On the contrary, I don't think you understand it, and you're just repeating years of wax industry dogma.
rozboonThere is so much witchcraft and bollocks associated with this area of skiing, from a whole lot of people who should know better.
I'll definitely say that I don't know enough about the chemical/molecular nature of a sintered base. But even if I don't know the exact nature of it, I don't think it is a mistake to describe the application of wax to a ski base with the metaphors that have been used above.
For example, if I have an unwaxed/dry sintered base and I apply a coat of melted fluronated/hydrocarbon wax to it, I notice that the melted wax does get absorbed by the base material. Whether it's due to "pores" (which I don't think there are pores like my skin in the base material) or a sponge-like action, the wax is going into the base. And the more I wax, the faster my base gets. The less I wax, the slower my base becomes. These are the basic principles of waxing a ski and the albeit simple observations of what happens and what works.
onenerdykidI'll definitely say that I don't know enough about the chemical/molecular nature of a sintered base. But even if I don't know the exact nature of it, I don't think it is a mistake to describe the application of wax to a ski base with the metaphors that have been used above.
For example, if I have an unwaxed/dry sintered base and I apply a coat of melted fluronated/hydrocarbon wax to it, I notice that the melted wax does get absorbed by the base material. Whether it's due to "pores" (which I don't think there are pores like my skin in the base material) or a sponge-like action, the wax is going into the base. .
I'm certainly not claiming that waxing a base is utterly without merit. It definitely has observed and measurable benefits, it just annoys me that large numbers of people continue to spout (and vehemently defend) the "pores" myth.
I've waxed enough skis to know that when you do a hot wax it certainly has the appearance of absorption but it's more along the lines of the changing reflectivity of the very thin layer of wax as it solidifies, which happens from the edge as it cools inward.
As one of the scientific papers on the subject states, if a liquid with the viscosity and containing molecules as large as a complex hydrocarbon (wax) was able to be absorbed by Ptex then they would also absorb water and quickly become sodden/waterlogged - whereas we all know that ski bases don't absorb water.
onenerdykidAnd the more I wax, the faster my base gets. The less I wax, the slower my base becomes. These are the basic principles of waxing a ski and the albeit simple observations of what happens and what works
As you say, this is an extreme simplification of the effects of waxing, and it's entirely true.
The problem I have is that this is the limit of most people's fundamental understanding of waxing, and yet from this they somehow divine that ski bases are this mystical porous wax absorbing and distributing substance.
Some of the effect of waxing is placebo, and is most noticeable because the application of wax is binary - you go from having no wax at all to a freshly waxed base and the increased glide is quite tangible. The loss of glide as the wax comes off the ski is gradual, and hence is no where near as tangible to such imprecise machines as human beings - plus you factor in the nice fresh clean structure you've got from scraping and brushing and you will definitely have faster bases for quite a while, but for different reasons to what most people think.
The other argument often posited by pro-waxing people is that racers do it so it must be worthwhile, and it absolutely is, but even if it only provided improved glide for 50 metres (it's more like 2-4km from what I've read) racers would still do it.
rozboonThe base absolutely will act in a hydrophobic/hydrophilic manner solely through the use of structuring. How do you think car tyres work to displace water? They don't require wax to do it, the principles at work are exactly the same. On the contrary, I don't think you understand it, and you're just repeating years of wax industry dogma.
Your the one whos having trouble, I said the base structure would act that way it just works far far better in each application with wax for the correct conditions. Also you don't understand how car tyres work.
Having helped develop some car tyres in my previous line of work and having worked in suspension development I can tell you... A mixture of tread patterns, how the compounds in the rubber work and how its tied to the cars axle loadings. The rubber promotes grip and adhesion and makes up part of your suspension travel, the compounds in the rubber are structured for different uses and adjusted accordingly. The tyes tread patterns are balanced between grip, ability to clear water (which differs from grip as grip is affected by all manner of surface conditions and temperature).
For and example when we raced if there was a lot of water on the track but the track temps were still high we would cut extra grooves in the semi slicks we used to allow them to clear more water as even in the wet the higher track temps would have been too much for the tyres we had for lower temp days. On my clients cars we would take into account their use, axle weights and a few other factors before suggestion tyre and suspension combinations. I for instance drove on full race suspension on my road car with road legal semi slicks, to make the tyres work you needed to run higher spring and damper rates than most normal coilover set ups would work.
onenerdykidI'll definitely say that I don't know enough about the chemical/molecular nature of a sintered base. But even if I don't know the exact nature of it, I don't think it is a mistake to describe the application of wax to a ski base with the metaphors that have been used above.
For example, if I have an unwaxed/dry sintered base and I apply a coat of melted fluronated/hydrocarbon wax to it, I notice that the melted wax does get absorbed by the base material. Whether it's due to "pores" (which I don't think there are pores like my skin in the base material) or a sponge-like action, the wax is going into the base. And the more I wax, the faster my base gets. The less I wax, the slower my base becomes. These are the basic principles of waxing a ski and the albeit simple observations of what happens and what works.
So question, what should i do pre wax just wipe the bases with a wet rag or?
-notch-did some grass and mud riding today at my local mountain, got some dirt bases and not really sure how to get it out.
Don't hot scrape those skis! Way too much crap on those bases! You have a few choices. This first one will not remove all the wax from the base and I see this as the best choice.
The second choice is a wax remover such as Toko HC-3 wax remover.