Not exactly like K2, but close. While Lange's boots do have tech inserts directly in the shell, the soles are WTR not Alpine ISO/DIN and (as pictured) will not work in true alpine bindings. As pictured, they will need to work with WTR, MNC, or touring bindings.

Also, isn't there already a 16/17 thread started?

onenerdykidNot exactly like K2, but close. While Lange's boots do have tech inserts directly in the shell, the soles are WTR not Alpine ISO/DIN and (as pictured) will not work in true alpine bindings. As pictured, they will need to work with WTR, MNC, or touring bindings.

Also, isn't there already a 16/17 thread started?

I didn't see it, not that I looked too hard for it.

I assume you have gotten your hands on them then. Are they basically their XT with tech soles then?

Interesting choice if they did.

.MASSHOLE.I didn't see it, not that I looked too hard for it.

I assume you have gotten your hands on them then. Are they basically their XT with tech soles then?

Interesting choice if they did.

Haven't had my hands on them yet and only seen them from this picture. Lange just launched the updated XT last year, so I don't think there are any real mold changes beside the tech insert update.

onenerdykidHaven't had my hands on them yet and only seen them from this picture. Lange just launched the updated XT last year, so I don't think there are any real mold changes beside the tech insert update.

Odd given that there are better AT boots out there in terms of downhill and uphill performance.

Who knows, maybe it will kill it.

.MASSHOLE.Odd given that there are better AT boots out there in terms of downhill and uphill performance.

What tech boot would you say offers better downhill performance than an XT 130?

KyleAWhat tech boot would you say offers better downhill performance than an XT 130?

For PURE AT use (which is what this seems to be going for seeing as it is not a DIN certified sole) the Mountain Lab, Khion, and Vulcan off the top of my head.

you can most likely take the WTR sole off and put a ISO 5355 sole on those, just like you can with this year's Lange XT WTR and Rossi Alltrack WTR boots.

The reality is, Amer and Rossignol group are looking to make WTR the most prominant boot sole spec on the market. Their goal appears to make it the standard for anyone who is not racing (solid plastic lug that has been canted) or using a backcountry specific boot.

They walk better, and have less people making an attempt at staring in Warren Miller's frozen granular segment. You can still cant them using cantology soles. It will take a couple years but my guess is you will soon see WTR soles (or something similar) as the new standard across skiing in everything from tech compatible side country boots to rentals, to your high end weekend warrior front side skier. Basically, anyone who does not need a solid stiff lug or a full rubber walk sole.

I always thought the K2 idea was genius. Is there truly a downside to putting tech inserts onto Alpine DIN soles? Seems like it loses almost no performance and opens up a ton of options. Why don't all companies stick inserts on boots that have big mtn/sidecountry features? (i.e. Dalbello Lupo, Salomon Quest Max)

MartianManI always thought the K2 idea was genius. Is there truly a downside to putting tech inserts onto Alpine DIN soles? Seems like it loses almost no performance and opens up a ton of options. Why don't all companies stick inserts on boots that have big mtn/sidecountry features? (i.e. Dalbello Lupo, Salomon Quest Max)

It does not meat ISO 5355.

Rossi does not currently indemnify their bindings to work with K2 boots with the tech insert. Marker does, not sure if Amer does.

It also costs money and pushes the cost of the boot up. If you are using a tech binding why not just swap soles and use a rocker sole that walks better with improved traction? K2 released a rocker rubber sole for the Pinnacle this year.

cobra_commanderIt does not meat ISO 5355.

Rossi does not currently indemnify their bindings to work with K2 boots with the tech insert. Marker does, not sure if Amer does.

It also costs money and pushes the cost of the boot up. If you are using a tech binding why not just swap soles and use a rocker sole that walks better with improved traction? K2 released a rocker rubber sole for the Pinnacle this year.

No one wants to swap soles all the time though. The k2 just works. I love the fact I can take those boots out and ride any possible binding without changing anything.

Doesn't ON3P launch a "youth line" during 16-17? If so, the kids will be hyped. #4thakidz

Also I made a comment about the older Jeffrey's (108/110 versions) and he said (in a forum) that we might see something like that again. If so I'd buy it.

tomPietrowskiNo one wants to swap soles all the time though. The k2 just works. I love the fact I can take those boots out and ride any possible binding without changing anything.

sure, and you save 5 minutes to get a boot that doesn't scramble or walk near as well. It takes a lot more time to wax and tune that second ski every five-ten days you ski it.

cobra_commandersure, and you save 5 minutes to get a boot that doesn't scramble or walk near as well. It takes a lot more time to wax and tune that second ski every five-ten days you ski it.

I see it more like I know I can ski any possible ski in that boot without doing anything. Quite often I'll be just testing somthing for a day an it could have tech or alpine or really anything else. To save me taking multiply boots and extra soles te k2 just works. And other then the issue with cuff movement they ski really well.

MartianManI always thought the K2 idea was genius. Is there truly a downside to putting tech inserts onto Alpine DIN soles? Seems like it loses almost no performance and opens up a ton of options

cobra_commanderIt does not meat ISO 5355.

Emphasis on the meat. According to Alpine ISO 5355, you cannot have any interference on the surface of the boot's interface to the binding. So, on paper, tech inserts violate this. From there, it just depends on how much of a legal risk a brand wants to take. Brands have always known this, which is why they have gone with the Touring ISO 9523 or WTR or swappable norm grip pads.

onenerdykidEmphasis on the meat. According to Alpine ISO 5355, you cannot have any interference on the surface of the boot's interface to the binding. So, on paper, tech inserts violate this. From there, it just depends on how much of a legal risk a brand wants to take. Brands have always known this, which is why they have gone with the Touring ISO 9523 or WTR or swappable norm grip pads.

What is the actuall issue with having the inserts out of interest. I get they are changing the surface but is it a strength issue or more of one that it could potentially catch or somthing. And how is it differnt then say a wtr sole with inserts whic could still be used in a warden for example. Just interested and figure you're the man to ask.

tomPietrowskiWhat is the actuall issue with having the inserts out of interest. I get they are changing the surface but is it a strength issue or more of one that it could potentially catch or somthing. And how is it differnt then say a wtr sole with inserts whic could still be used in a warden for example. Just interested and figure you're the man to ask.

It's just the rules of the Alpine norm and such restrictions are not present in the Touring norm or WTR norm. Providing a safe, consistent release is the main goal of the TÜV (the norm testing organization) and the norm is incredibly strict and detailed in regards to what you can and can't do.

onenerdykidIt's just the rules of the Alpine norm and such restrictions are not present in the Touring norm or WTR norm. Providing a safe, consistent release is the main goal of the TÜV (the norm testing organization) and the norm is incredibly strict and detailed in regards to what you can and can't do.

do you maybe think that will change? when was the norm put in place by the TUV? could it be as things change they update it do you think

Last update was 2005 I believe, before that 1997.

I doubt they will change it. Amer, Rossi, and whomever else they can get on board (Marker{Dalbello} comes to mind) will likely attempt to work with TUV to create a new standard (using WTR as a guide). TUV can then test new bindings and boots against that standard.

Or they could change it, but that would be complex with the push for a non horizontal boot sole surface.

cobra_commanderLast update was 2005 I believe, before that 1997.

I doubt they will change it. Amer, Rossi, and whomever else they can get on board (Marker{Dalbello} comes to mind) will likely attempt to work with TUV to create a new standard (using WTR as a guide). TUV can then test new bindings and boots against that standard.

Or they could change it, but that would be complex with the push for a non horizontal boot sole surface.

Yeah will be interesting to see what happens in the coming years. I would like to know more about the TUV thoughts on tech inserts as although on paper its not allowed I really had no issues what so ever using many different bindings. Having said that I did have an issue with one tech binding so i wonder if that is more the downside rather then alpine bindings but then you would think that would not be covered by the same norm anyway

tomPietrowskiYeah will be interesting to see what happens in the coming years. I would like to know more about the TUV thoughts on tech inserts as although on paper its not allowed I really had no issues what so ever using many different bindings.

The short answer is that there is currently no norm for tech insert shape or design- almost every boot company has their own unique shape. This means that there could be a tech insert in a boot that does not agree with the alpine binding in some way (for example, the tech insert could get hung up on the little rollers in the toe piece during a lateral release).

onenerdykidThe short answer is that there is currently no norm for tech insert shape or design- almost every boot company has their own unique shape. This means that there could be a tech insert in a boot that does not agree with the alpine binding in some way (for example, the tech insert could get hung up on the little rollers in the toe piece during a lateral release).

Do you think there ever will be a norm?

.MASSHOLE.Do you think there ever will be a norm?

I hope so. It would definitely make things easier.

onenerdykidI hope so. It would definitely make things easier.

As brands can you guys ever have any kind of power in this respect. For example (and I realize it's not likely) but say you guys, salomon, Rossi, k2 etc all came together and created analpine sole with inserts you were all happy with, could you then have some pressure over TUV to consider changes or are you more pressured to not go outside what the TUV want.

tomPietrowskianalpine

Possibly my new favourite autocorrect. Alpine that should say haha

tomPietrowskiAs brands can you guys ever have any kind of power in this respect. For example (and I realize it's not likely) but say you guys, salomon, Rossi, k2 etc all came together and created analpine sole with inserts you were all happy with, could you then have some pressure over TUV to consider changes or are you more pressured to not go outside what the TUV want.

The TÜV is more or less an independent 3rd party that tests the norms that are given by ISO (the International Organization for Standardization). The problem with changing a norm is more about the pragmatic costs associated with all of the boot companies having to launch all new molds for all sizes for all models and the binding world to do the same.

It for sure can happen and WTR is a great example of the process: Salomon had an idea for a new grip pad shape and a binding that accepted that shape. It passed the tests done by the TÜV and boom a new norm was created. The question is will it be embraced by the entire industry and render the current Alpine ISO obselete? Who knows... but at least Salomon, Atomic, Lange, Rossi, and Scott are on board with it. There just needs to be more boot and binding options for that to fully happen.

onenerdykidI hope so. It would definitely make things easier.

Anything cool in the pipeline that you have been hearing rumors about and want hint to us?

.MASSHOLE.Anything cool in the pipeline that you have been hearing rumors about and want hint to us?

There might be a new alpine boot from us that you might be interested in :)

onenerdykidThere might be a new alpine boot from us that you might be interested in :)

I am listening..

so the other day someone posted a picture of some camo and yellow full tilts which a rep supposedly showed them that are the new Tom Wallisch pro model.

I was skeptical after that nike ski boots thread a while back but the thread appears to be deleted soooooo...

w_skierso the other day someone posted a picture of some camo and yellow full tilts which a rep supposedly showed them that are the new Tom Wallisch pro model.

I was skeptical after that nike ski boots thread a while back but the thread appears to be deleted soooooo...

https://www.newschoolers.com/news/read/What-Full-Tilt#PLxuVBWP0yBVUQbY.97

tomPietrowskihttps://www.newschoolers.com/news/read/What-Full-Tilt#PLxuVBWP0yBVUQbY.97

awesome!!! Great read!

We're making new skis! Shiny colors and all!

Line_SkisWe're making new skis! Shiny colors and all!

Heck yes!!!! Exactly what I wanna hear.

Line_SkisWe're making new skis! Shiny colors and all!

Dibs on the red ones.

Rossi will stop selling rebranded Look bindings... So less FKS color choices for those who color match all their gear...... Hurray!

GhiniRossi will stop selling rebranded Look bindings... So less FKS color choices for those who color match all their gear...... Hurray!

interesting... I wonder what this means for pivot/fks prices cause it seems like fks are always a bit cheaper online

GhiniRossi will stop selling rebranded Look bindings... So less FKS color choices for those who color match all their gear...... Hurray!

Interesting, where did you see this?

Line_SkisWe're making new skis! Shiny colors and all!

But will they match my boots, bindings, and outerwear? That's what's important

.MASSHOLE.Interesting, where did you see this?

Heard on ISPO..

GhiniHeard on ISPO..

Too bad. I wonder if Rossi will just put all their athletes on Look bindings then.

.MASSHOLE.Too bad. I wonder if Rossi will just put all their athletes on Look bindings then.

Good question, I wonder if Rossignol themselves will distribute Pivots now. Can't see the team on another binding...

in the BLACK & WHITE edit from stubai that was just posted, are the guys riding new atomic park skis?

gapersarefriendsin the BLACK & WHITE edit from stubai that was just posted, are the guys riding new atomic park skis?

Grab a screen shot and post it here. I bet OneNerdyKid can confirm or deny

gapersarefriendsin the BLACK & WHITE edit from stubai that was just posted, are the guys riding new atomic park skis?

.MASSHOLE.Grab a screen shot and post it here. I bet OneNerdyKid can confirm or deny

Pretty sure it's just a custom ski graphic maker promo-thing that Atomic is doing. Europe only atm if if I'm not mistaken.

Arcteryx are making a tourin boot aparently. Any amer boot designers able to fill us in with some details?

gapersarefriendsin the BLACK & WHITE edit from stubai that was just posted, are the guys riding new atomic park skis?

Carl_the_LlamaPretty sure it's just a custom ski graphic maker promo-thing that Atomic is doing. Europe only atm if if I'm not mistaken.

They're Atomic 'Custom Studio' skis. Europe exclusive.

https://customstudio.atomic.com/#en-GB/ski_models

tomPietrowskiArcteryx are making a tourin boot aparently. Any amer boot designers able to fill us in with some details?

WHAT?

Their own or just a rebrand from another Amer sports company?

.MASSHOLE.WHAT?

Their own or just a rebrand from another Amer sports company?

From the small amount of info I got it's a new development maybe based on their mountaineering boot. That is all I know, onenerdy got any insights

not an arcteryx boot designer, but can fill you in. It will walk a little 'differently' than other tech boots on the market.

cobra_commandernot an arcteryx boot designer, but can fill you in. It will walk a little 'differently' than other tech boots on the market.

Are they going for the mountaineering crowd then? Or ski-mo?

I can't see them going for freeride/traditional BC skier...But I could be wrong