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californiagrownReally? When is the last time you donated money to charities helping people survive in 3rd world countries?
Cause for most religious folks that's weekly.
You are an angry young person looking to rebel and prove your intelligence and independence.
It'll take some time, but you will gain perspective on religion and realize you were an ignorant angsty douche in your younger years.
Humans will always struggle for more power, more money, more land. Religion just happens to be a vehicle through which morally corrupt leaders steal scripture and push their own agendas. That's not religion, that's morally bankrupt leaders taking advantage of people. That will always happen, regardless of religion.
There is so much wrong with everything you just said but I don't want to start a long argument.
californiagrownThat is what "offering" is used for- upkeep of the church facilities and money for the various humanitarian causes supported by the church. Ya know, those collection plates that get passed around?
And I define religious people as the 52 times a year people haha
as usual you have no idea what you are talking about when some churches and people get money tax free.
milk_man"There is no absolute truth." I don't think he knows what he's talking about.. At all.. There IS absolute truth, and that is God and his Word.
Truth is not relative. Science is relative. Science is not "truth." Science is observation. Quantum physics is 'proving' that what we see may not actually be what we see. So in a way science is tearing itself apart, because quantum physics is starting to say that even the stuff we observe and know as fact could be completely different..
inb4 "milkman you are the last one to talk about science and quantum physics"
What classes on quantum mechanics are you taking? It sounds like you're taking one sentence someone told you about it way out of context. And yes from that sentence you have no idea what your are talking about.
You exist therefore you are, that is the one absolute true in this world.
nocturnalYou exist therefore you are, that is the one absolute true in this world.
That's merely an analytic truth (tautology) in that your subject has the same exact meaning as the predicate. "You exist therefore you are" is the same thing as saying "you exist therefore you exist". It's also called an identity statement because you are just saying the same thing twice.
You might be trying to say "I think, therefore I exist" as this was Descartes' primary and absolute truth.
According to the American Psychological Association (APA), a strong and passionate belief in a deity or higher power, to the point where it impairs one’s ability to make conscientious decisions about common sense matters, will now be classified as a mental illness.
onenerdykidThat's merely an analytic truth (tautology) in that your subject has the same exact meaning as the predicate. "You exist therefore you are" is the same thing as saying "you exist therefore you exist". It's also called an identity statement because you are just saying the same thing twice.
You might be trying to say "I think, therefore I exist" as this was Descartes' primary and absolute truth.
californiagrownWay to cherry pick. If that's what you have to rely on, you might want to rethink your argument...
That's four examples and yes it's on the extreme side, but you're joking yourself if you think other people don't skin money off the top of an unregulated untax charitable donation. There was a pastor who recently bought a 65 million dollar jet through his church the Vatican has a bank account with billions of dollars in it.
Just look at Scientology another "extreme" example of religious money.
onenerdykidThat's merely an analytic truth (tautology) in that your subject has the same exact meaning as the predicate. "You exist therefore you are" is the same thing as saying "you exist therefore you exist".
And that all you really know Thank you for explaining my point.
onenerdykidThat's merely an analytic truth (tautology) in that your subject has the same exact meaning as the predicate. "You exist therefore you are" is the same thing as saying "you exist therefore you exist". It's also called an identity statement because you are just saying the same thing twice.
You might be trying to say "I think, therefore I exist" as this was Descartes' primary and absolute truth.
Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."
DlCKGive, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."
So you're saying those people that gave away 65 million dollars, so their pastor could buy a jet got back more money by giving away 65 million?
nocturnalSo you're saying those people that gave away 65 million dollars, so their pastor could buy a jet got back more money by giving away 65 million?
na god gave the pastor a bentley for being so helpful. If you slap 1000 people in the forehead with gods love you get a bentley, are they not teaching this in schools?!?!
DlCKna god gave the pastor a bentley for being so helpful. If you slap 1000 people in the forehead with gods love you get a bentley, are they not teaching this in schools?!?!
I haven't really read through any of this thread so I didn't know if you were being sarcastic or not.
nocturnalThat's four examples and yes it's on the extreme side, but you're joking yourself if you think other people don't skin money off the top of an unregulated untax charitable donation. There was a pastor who recently bought a 65 million dollar jet through his church the Vatican has a bank account with billions of dollars in it.
Just look at Scientology another "extreme" example of religious money.
I'm sorry that the very small minority have biased you so much.
californiagrownI'm sorry that the very small minority have biased you so much.
Those are cherry picked examples.
So are yours I don't here about too many churches that have given money to any of the non profits I've worked for. Do some churches give 100% of their donations away I'm sure they do. But most churches go on trips have paste that live in a house bought by the church. And 1,000,000,000's stored away by a major religion can't just be swept under the rug by your comment
I like atheism because I can live with good morals and not have to worry about being called a fake or non believer for not hating gays, or other religions or people who sin. When you think about religion is just human self preservation. As a species our biggest underlying instinct is self preservation. I would rather do good things, than do good things to get in to heaven and be accepted by a community also filled with so much hate. Religion became so popular because it was salvation, it's the pill that lets you live forever at God's side. You do all your good work, just so you can put yourself above others and ultimately preserve yourself. That is Christianity for ya.
nocturnalSo are yours I don't here about too many churches that have given money to any of the non profits I've worked for. Do some churches give 100% of their donations away I'm sure they do. But most churches go on trips have paste that live in a house bought by the church. And 1,000,000,000's stored away by a major religion can't just be swept under the rug by your comment
What charities and non profits have you worked for? In what role?
The fact you think that a charity or a church can give away 100% of donations makes me think you have never actually worked at a charity or non profit.
californiagrownWhat charities and non profits have you worked for? In what role?
The fact you think that a charity or a church can give away 100% of donations makes me think you have never actually worked at a charity or non profit.
There are things called operating costs lol.
For church that has to live on property tax free there really isn't much upkeep my old church constantly would have renovations and extensions put on though so i guess thats "up keep" I think the most expensive thing my church used to spend its money on was trips for the youth group, and probably a few events they hosted there. I know however the pastor bought a house and was taking a salary from the church. In my position at nonprofits donsent matter what does matter is I know most of the donations come from individual people and local drives ran by school not from religious organizations. And what I do know is we would be better off if churches started to get taxed instead of keeping money for tax free.
My local Red Cross and Boys and Girls Club and food drives (the way a local church would help out with the food drive was they would mainly send people to help pack. every now and again they would give us some money, but it never really was that much. ShopRite was our main contributor and without our local shop right most of the food drives would have shut down.)
So do churches donate some of their earnings, yes they absolutely do. But you're joking yourself if you think if we got rid of all religious organizations today, all non profits would crumble because that's where the majority of big donations come from. All you would have is a lot of pastors who no longer take a salary and have to get a real job. And the world would probally be in a better place.
nocturnalFor church that has to live on property tax free there really isn't much upkeep my old church constantly would have renovations and extensions put on though so i guess thats "up keep" I think the most expensive thing my church used to spend its money on was trips for the youth group, and probably a few events they hosted there. I know however the pastor bought a house and was taking a salary from the church. In my position at nonprofits donsent matter what does matter is I know most of the donations come from individual people and local drives ran by school not from religious organizations. And what I do know is we would be better off if churches started to get taxed instead of keeping money for tax free.
My local Red Cross and Boys and Girls Club and food drives (the way a local church would help out with the food drive was they would mainly send people to help pack. every now and again they would give us some money, but it never really was that much. ShopRite was our main contributor and without our local shop right most of the food drives would have shut down.)
So do churches donate some of their earnings, yes they absolutely do. But you're joking yourself if you think if we got rid of all religious organizations today, all non profits would crumble because that's where the majority of big donations come from. All you would have is a lot of pastors who no longer take a salary and have to get a real job. And the world would probally be in a better place.
So you have extremely limited experience but are making wide ranging generalizations.
nocturnalFor church that has to live on property tax free there really isn't much upkeep my old church constantly would have renovations and extensions put on though so i guess thats "up keep" I think the most expensive thing my church used to spend its money on was trips for the youth group, and probably a few events they hosted there. I know however the pastor bought a house and was taking a salary from the church. In my position at nonprofits donsent matter what does matter is I know most of the donations come from individual people and local drives ran by school not from religious organizations. And what I do know is we would be better off if churches started to get taxed instead of keeping money for tax free.
My local Red Cross and Boys and Girls Club and food drives (the way a local church would help out with the food drive was they would mainly send people to help pack. every now and again they would give us some money, but it never really was that much. ShopRite was our main contributor and without our local shop right most of the food drives would have shut down.)
So do churches donate some of their earnings, yes they absolutely do. But you're joking yourself if you think if we got rid of all religious organizations today, all non profits would crumble because that's where the majority of big donations come from. All you would have is a lot of pastors who no longer take a salary and have to get a real job. And the world would probally be in a better place.
You realize that churches aren't the only non-profits that have employees who take a salary, right? Why shouldn't a church pay it's pastor and secretary and caretaker if they work there full time?
While there are crappy, selfish people who operate out of the church, there are tons of people within the church (and other religious organizations) who put money and volunteers both into the local community (homeless shelters, orphanages/child care facilities, food banks, etc) and internationally (disaster relief, community development such as hospitals and schools and wells, etc).
saskskierYou realize that churches aren't the only non-profits that have employees who take a salary, right? Why shouldn't a church pay it's pastor and secretary and caretaker if they work there full time?
While there are crappy, selfish people who operate out of the church, there are tons of people within the church (and other religious organizations) who put money and volunteers both into the local community (homeless shelters, orphanages/child care facilities, food banks, etc) and internationally (disaster relief, community development such as hospitals and schools and wells, etc).
Because those nonprofits you speak of that take salary get regulated by the irs, under non-profit codes. My friend used to work for an autism non-profit that recently got shut down because the president of the company was taking a $600,000 yearly salary. Guess what happens when those people misuse the funds they go to jail. Now guess what happens when a church miss uses the funds? Nothing, because they they are unregulated, thank you for supporting my point.
nocturnalBecause those nonprofits you speak of that take salary get regulated by the irs, under non-profit codes. My friend used to work for an autism non-profit that recently got shut down because the president of the company was taking a $600,000 yearly salary. Guess what happens when those people misuse the funds they go to jail. Now guess what happens when a church miss uses the funds? Nothing, because they they are unregulated, thank you for supporting my point.
So obviously regulation doesn't stop corruption....
californiagrownSo you have extremely limited experience but are making wide ranging generalizations.
Good for you.
You're doing the same thing, post up any proof where the fuck are you getting that religious people donate and churches donate substantial amount of money 52 times a year to non profits every year. Most of it is spent on the church and things they don't need which is why most churches are built like castles, and constantly getting renovations. I went to 3 different churches growing up worked for 2 of them, and worked for more than five nonprofits over my lifetime. I have way more experience and validity than you do in your empty statements that religion is good because they donate money, and therefore they shouldn't be regulated.
nocturnalYou're doing the same thing, post up any proof where the fuck are you getting that religious people donate and churches donate substantial amount of money 52 times a year to non profits every year. Most of it is spent on the church and things they don't need which is why most churches are built like castles, and constantly getting renovations. I went to 3 different churches growing up worked for 2 of them, and worked for more than five nonprofits over my lifetime. I have way more experience and validity than you do in your empty statements that religion is good because they donate money, and therefore they shouldn't be regulated.
Why do you keep talking as if all of the money donated to a church should be going to a different non-profit. That's like saying UNICEF should be using the money donated to them to donate to the Red Cross or something like that.
Why do you give the church a hard time for things like building maintenance and renovations, but not other non-profits, which also have the same issues (like any organization that has a building they work out of). Why don't you give other non-profits for ceo's taking huge salaries (i.e. - American Cancer Society - $2.1 mil, Boys and Girls Club - $1.8 mil, etc) a hard time? Corruption and greed and unnecessarily large salaries exist everywhere and the church is not immune to this.
Yes, there are pastor's out there that take far bigger salaries than that and those that support them, but I would there are likely a far larger group of church goers who are not okay with that. There are far more pastors out there that take modest salary (they have families too) and there are lots that just scrape by.
nocturnalYou're doing the same thing, post up any proof where the fuck are you getting that religious people donate and churches donate substantial amount of money 52 times a year to non profits every year. Most of it is spent on the church and things they don't need which is why most churches are built like castles, and constantly getting renovations. I went to 3 different churches growing up worked for 2 of them, and worked for more than five nonprofits over my lifetime. I have way more experience and validity than you do in your empty statements that religion is good because they donate money, and therefore they shouldn't be regulated.
what were these positions you held that allowed you to see the financials and inner workings of each organization?
saskskierWhy do you keep talking as if all of the money donated to a church should be going to a different non-profit. That's like saying UNICEF should be using the money donated to them to donate to the Red Cross or something like that.
Why do you give the church a hard time for things like building maintenance and renovations, but not other non-profits, which also have the same issues (like any organization that has a building they work out of). Why don't you give other non-profits for ceo's taking huge salaries (i.e. - American Cancer Society - $2.1 mil, Boys and Girls Club - $1.8 mil, etc) a hard time? Corruption and greed and unnecessarily large salaries exist everywhere and the church is not immune to this.
Yes, there are pastor's out there that take far bigger salaries than that and those that support them, but I would there are likely a far larger group of church goers who are not okay with that. There are far more pastors out there that take modest salary (they have families too) and there are lots that just scrape by.
People from non profits go to jail for misusing fawns all the time my point is church money should be regulated which its not and that's an issue one that you're not addressing.
californiagrownwhat were these positions you held that allowed you to see the financials and inner workings of each organization?
Please, do tell!
Why don't you give me the proof that I asked for my last post instead of just trying to personally insult me. Sounds like you've never worked for a nonprofit volunteer or ever worked for a church. Still waiting for you to post up some proof of your claims that we all know are bullshit.
nocturnalPeople from non profits go to jail for misusing fawns all the time my point is church money should be regulated which its not and that's an issue one that you're not addressing.
Why don't you give me the proof that I asked for my last post instead of just trying to personally insult me. Sounds like you've never worked for a nonprofit volunteer or ever worked for a church. Still waiting for you to post up some proof of your claims that we all know are bullshit.
Hahaha you want pay stubs? Are you actually serious, lol.
I have worked with the finances at 3 separate churches and 2 charities. I additionally know executives at 2 other charities very well and have had drunk convos with them about the inner workings of those charities.
Regulation seems to deter corruption about as well as church self discipline, huh? Regulation won't solve anything.
nocturnalPeople from non profits go to jail for misusing fawns all the time my point is church money should be regulated which its not and that's an issue one that you're not addressing.
When you say church money is not regulated, what do you mean by that? Churches still need to follow tax-exempt guidelines as set out by the IRS and can be audited if/when things aren't lining up. What would you like to see happen?
I don't disagree that those who misuse funds (both in and out of the church) should go to jail, I just suspect that your opinion of what misuse and my opinion of misuse probably differ. Obviously things like 6 figure salaries, mansions, private jets and Bentley's are all out of the question. In your opinion, where is the line?
californiagrownHahaha you want pay stubs? Are you actually serious, lol.
I have worked with the finances at 3 separate churches and 2 charities. I additionally know executives at 2 other charities very well and have had drunk convos with them about the inner workings of those charities.
Regulation seems to deter corruption about as well as church self discipline, huh? Regulation won't solve anything.
I'm related to Peter Lewis you should probably look up who is and the charitable organizations that he used to run. And good point regulation won't do anything so lets just throw it all out the window and not solve the problem. I think we're both on the same sides by saying as much money as possible should be going to these nonprofits.
nocturnalI'm related to Peter Lewis you should probably look up who is and the charitable organizations that he used to run. And good point regulation won't do anything so lets just throw it all out the window and not solve the problem. I think we're both on the same sides by saying as much money as possible should be going to these nonprofits.
What does being related have to do with anything? I know I don't talk about work at thanksgiving or Xmas haha.
And fwiw, I still give money to, and volunteer with my parents church... And I've been athiest for 10 years. I give money directly to charities as well, but the most charitable people I know are folks who are involved in a church. I want to support that, and that charitable behavior.
californiagrownWhat does being related have to do with anything? I know I don't talk about work at thanksgiving or Xmas haha.
And fwiw, I still give money to, and volunteer with my parents church... And I've been athiest for 10 years. I give money directly to charities as well, but the most charitable people I know are folks who are involved in a church. I want to support that, and that charitable behavior.
californiagrownWhat does being related have to do with anything? I know I don't talk about work at thanksgiving or Xmas haha.
And fwiw, I still give money to, and volunteer with my parents church... And I've been athiest for 10 years. I give money directly to charities as well, but the most charitable people I know are folks who are involved in a church. I want to support that, and that charitable behavior.
LonelyYou sound like a good knowledgeable person!
What does having a family member who started, not donated or worked for, actually started, multiple charities have to do with anything? Are you serious after he passed away he gave over 800 million dollars to charity. But I'm sure you know more than me because you volunteer at a church. I also find most good-hearted charitable people don't go around talking about the money they donate. So that great the people at your church boast about money they give.
nocturnalWhat does having a family member who started, not donated or worked for, actually started, multiple charities have to do with anything? Are you serious after he passed away he gave over 800 million dollars to charity. But I'm sure you know more than me because you volunteer at a church. I also find most good-hearted charitable people don't go around talking about the money they donate. So that great the people at your church boast about money they give.
Yeah, you never talked to him in depth about the inner workings of the charities. So, yeah, what does it matter you're related.
And who boasts about the money donated? Huh? I work with the church's finances, like I said haha. That's how I know.
nocturnalWhat does having a family member who started, not donated or worked for, actually started, multiple charities have to do with anything? Are you serious after he passed away he gave over 800 million dollars to charity. But I'm sure you know more than me because you volunteer at a church. I also find most good-hearted charitable people don't go around talking about the money they donate. So that great the people at your church boast about money they give.
californiagrownI have worked with the finances at 3 separate churches and 2 charities. I additionally know executives at 2 other charities very well and have had drunk convos with them about the inner workings of those charities.
First off I call bs on this. Really vague. And I guess since they were drunk these "exuctives" know everything and you are above us with your knowledge. What charities pray tell?
LonelyFirst off I call bs on this. Really vague. And I guess since they were drunk these "exuctives" know everything and you are above us with your knowledge. What charities pray tell?
I have helped audit quarterly expenditures for 3 separate churches, yes.
Generally, when drunk your inhibitions are lowered and you are a bit more forthcoming than normal.
californiagrownI have helped audit quarterly expenditures for 3 separate churches, yes.
Generally, when drunk your inhibitions are lowered and you are a bit more forthcoming than normal.
And no, I will not be naming names.
What has this conversation turned into? All I said was the church should be more regulated and taxed.
You then turn this into a whose dick is bigger game bla bla bla assumption assumption assumption, and now I don't even know why you are posting anymore. Churches are not the same as non profits all religion from Christianity to Scientology should pay taxes.
nocturnalWhat has this conversation turned into? All I said was the church should be more regulated and taxed.
You then turn this into a whose dick is bigger game bla bla bla assumption assumption assumption, and now I don't even know why you are posting anymore. Churches are not the same as non profits all religion from Christianity to Scientology should pay taxes.
How are they different from other non profits if they use the money that comes in (beyond overhead expenses, JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER NON PROFIT) to help individuals, families or things like food banks, shelters, etc in their community or other international projects such as building schools, hospitals and clean water projects?
nocturnalWhat has this conversation turned into? All I said was the church should be more regulated and taxed.
You then turn this into a whose dick is bigger game bla bla bla assumption assumption assumption, and now I don't even know why you are posting anymore. Churches are not the same as non profits all religion from Christianity to Scientology should pay taxes.
People asked me, no one asked you. You name dropped as your argument haha.
I disagree about the taxes. Govt shouldn't be involved with religon, and religon shouldn't be involved with govt.
saskskierHow are they different from other non profits if they use the money that comes in (beyond overhead expenses, JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER NON PROFIT) to help individuals, families or things like food banks, shelters, etc in their community or other international projects such as building schools, hospitals and clean water projects?
Because not 100% of religon and the people who follow them do that. If a church donates enough then they can get it deducted off there taxes. There's a reason sinctology and the Catholic Church have 1,000,000,000's with a B in their bank acounts it's not because they donate it all. And if thats what they want to do then they can make a charity not make them the charity. Why do churches in my town have to not pay taxes that could benafit me and my town?
saskskierHow are they different from other non profits if they use the money that comes in (beyond overhead expenses, JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER NON PROFIT) to help individuals, families or things like food banks, shelters, etc in their community or other international projects such as building schools, hospitals and clean water projects?
Non-profits aren't connected with any kind of religious denomination. Churches generally are. Many non-profits exist under some larger, government affiliated organization, or receive some sort of government funding.
And the primary function of a church isn't to do some sort of good for the community, while non-profits exist to do this and only this.
Not to mention the fact that not all churches are even charitable.
nocturnalBecause not 100% of religon and the people who follow them do that. If a church donates enough then they can get it deducted off there taxes. There's a reason sinctology and the Catholic Church have 1,000,000,000's with a B in their bank acounts it's not because they donate it all. And if thats what they want to do then they can make a charity not make them the charity. Why do churches in my town have to not pay taxes that could benafit me and my town?
Again, I'm not entirely sure if it's the way you are phrasing it or if there it's just some kind of miscommunication, but when you talk about the church donating enough, are you saying the church should be donating to other charities?
The churches I've gone to have different veins donations go through.
Some stays local. Sometimes it's helping out individual or families. That money is helping those in need (purchasing food, paying bills, vehicle repairs, rent or other needs on a case by case basis), but isn't 'donated' per se. Used in practical ways. Other times it is used for purchasing goods or outright financial contributions for things like shelters/food banks, etc.
Some goes national or international. The church has workers or volunteers that are working as teachers/doctors/nurses/community development/etc in communities in need (high risk neighborhoods in Canada/States, remote communities such as northern reserves, etc) or in third world countries. These people volunteer, but often receive some financial contribution to help meet their practical needs while helping out. Sometimes they work with organizations and sometimes not.
Other times money goes into a large 'pot' so to speak. This money is reserved for things like disaster relief (Nepal earthquake, tsunami's, Katrina, etc) or other major projects (ending human trafficking/slavery, water/food crisis, conflict areas/refugee camps, etc)
I can't speak for the Catholic church (I know they aren't particularly forthcoming with their finances), but every church I've gone to has external audits completed every year with full and complete financial disclosure. Anyone can walk in and find out where all the money goes each year.
Maybe things are different up here in Canada? I don't know. There certainly doesn't seem to be the same kind of money scandals there are down in the States (not saying it doesn't exist. There are sketchy, greedy folks everywhere who will take advantage of everyone).
Sorry for the long reply, but I can only speak for the churches I've been involved in. I haven't held any kind of special positions, but they have operated under a full disclosure kind of model. I know of a ton of others who operate in a similar fashion. I imagine reality is somewhere in between what you've experienced and what I have (hopefully closer to what I have as it would mean more people are out there receiving practical help from the church and less people are abusing the system).
WattsNon-profits aren't connected with any kind of religious denomination. Churches generally are. Many non-profits exist under some larger, government affiliated organization, or receive some sort of government funding.
And the primary function of a church isn't to do some sort of good for the community, while non-profits exist to do this and only this.
Not to mention the fact that not all churches are even charitable.
Sass too long to quote but yes I understand some churches do great charity but the thing is some people use it as a tax haven to not pay money and get free land tax free. You should probably look into how much money a year were losing by having churches across the country not paying taxes. Even with their charitable donations were still losing a lot more money than we could gain by not taxing them.
Bibles in schools are a bad idea, period. There are good parts (there were bound to be a few) but most of it is superstitious crap with little to no basis in reality, along with philosofies that have aged poorly at best and are outright immoral at worst. Even the main tenet of Christianity is horrible when you think about it. I'm refering to vicarious redemption, which is essentially scapegoating.
If kids are indoctrinated from a young age and actually take even some of the rubbish in that overrated book seriously then that is a huge problem.
GrabsForFunBibles in schools are a bad idea, period. There are good parts (there were bound to be a few) but most of it is superstitious crap with little to no basis in reality, along with philosofies that have aged poorly at best and are outright immoral at worst. Even the main tenet of Christianity is horrible when you think about it. I'm refering to vicarious redemption, which is essentially scapegoating.
If kids are indoctrinated from a young age and actually take even some of the rubbish in that overrated book seriously then that is a huge problem.
Your first claim is an absolute statement that is simply not correct. By your claim then, there could not be a world religion class in which school kids learn about religion and that would be a huge mistake. They are better off learning what is going on than not being told anything at all and left to their own interpretations or complete ignorance.
Secondly, there are many good moral rules in the Bible. I would argue, however, that moral/ethical philosophy deals with them anyway and they could be 100% learned without the Bible, but you would be mistaken to say that the Bible is completely and assuredly out of date with the modern world. Many many points in the Bible are foolish and absurd, but there are some good points in there for sure. The problem is if kids are not taught which ones are absurd, then they could believe the whole damn thing and that is a real problem.
What we should not do is attempt to say the Bible should be 100% left out of a classroom discussion. If it becomes banned in schools, then that would only lead to people seeking it out on their own and up to their own potentially flawed interpretation of it. In order to be understood and understood properly, it should be taught in schools (along with other world religions).
GrabsForFunBibles in schools are a bad idea, period. There are good parts (there were bound to be a few) but most of it is superstitious crap with little to no basis in reality, along with philosofies that have aged poorly at best and are outright immoral at worst. Even the main tenet of Christianity is horrible when you think about it. I'm refering to vicarious redemption, which is essentially scapegoating.
If kids are indoctrinated from a young age and actually take even some of the rubbish in that overrated book seriously then that is a huge problem.
Christianity is responsible for the morality of almost all of western civilization as we know it. The way you act in public and how you treat others is a result of christian morality whether you believe in the bible or not.
DlCKChristianity is responsible for the morality of almost all of western civilization as we know it. The way you act in public and how you treat others is a result of christian morality whether you believe in the bible or not.
A lot of western civilization morality is fucked up. And I think that you are making an overstatement. There are a lot of people who were raised with no religious influence at all. To say they act the way they do due to Christianity is just not true. I wish we could move past religion as a society. At the same time I have no problem with people believing what they want to ease the mind. As long as they're not teaching this as fact to children.