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So we are six months out from the election.
I was talking to one of my friends about it, and we think current polls aren't really accurate because they arent accounting at all for the youth vote, even though that seems to be Justin Trudeaus targeted audience. I saw him speak in September and would personally definitely prefer him to Harper, but still somewhat supportive of a coalition.
Take the poll /discuss anything relevant here.
also some decent lists of campaign promises for each party:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-election-2015-conservative-election-promises-1.3246185
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-election-2015-liberal-election-promises-1.3246205
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-election-2015-ndp-election-promises-1.3246201
VinnieF3 weeks to go. All 3 main parties have been statistically tied for the past 3 or so weeks. Looking to be a minority no matter what the outcome.One point that really irked my recently:
Conservatives supposedly going to open up the dairy market in Canada. This I just plain out morally oppose, especially in our day and age. Right now we have a quota system for dairy that means small scale farmers (those with as few as 50-60 head of cattle) can actually make a living off their farms. Opening up the dairy market will undermine the quota system by then having cheaper dairy from massive factory farm operations from other countries available on our shelves. This could easily mean the end of small dairy farms. This hits home for me since in my area of eastern Ontario it's almost entirely small family run dairy farms which only exist because of the quota system.
Other issues include
-less eco-friendly dairy products. Right now I go to the grocery store for milk and it comes from farms within about 100km of the city. With an open dairy market the cheapest dairy products could easily be coming from as far away as New Zealand.
-reduced quality. Canada has probably the best quality dairy in the world. factory scale farms will be the only fiscally stable option and quality will suffer, along with all the other issues related to factory farm milk production and long distance shipping
On the other hand, you may save 50 cents when you purchase a gallon of milk.
Forgive me if I'm missing something here, but does opening up the dairy market also mean there are going to be changes in food quality standards?
saskskierForgive me if I'm missing something here, but does opening up the dairy market also mean there are going to be changes in food quality standards?
It's hard to say. The way it is now quality control is done at almost every step of the way.
-the farms themselves have specific standards they need to meet in Canada that may not need to be met in other countries producing milk that, although may not deteriorate the health quality, could easily deteriorate taste or other culinary qualities.
-the milk coming directly from farms is inspected before transportation and mixing with milk of other farms. does that happen in other countries? One uninspected farm may deteriorate the overall quality of a region every so slightly when mixed in with other farms, but will it deteriorate the quality enough for it to not pass the minimum grade?
I doubt this info is easily available, but let's put it in numbers (these don't actually mean anything) so it's easy to visualize what I'm saying:
say the passing grade for milk is 70%. If you grab the average milk from a shelf in the grocery store perhaps right now it scores 90%. So the milk we're drinking is quite a bit higher than the minimum standard. maybe then the milk that we start importing only scores 75%. It passes and can be sold, but still scores 1/4 less than what we're already consuming.
Also just think about it: if I'm buying milk from the store that yesterday was shipped from the Sealtest plant a few km away that a few days earlier was shipped from the surrounding farms within a 50km radius, would you not expect the quality to be higher than that of milk that went from farm to processing plant to shipping facility to being shipped to another shipping facility then finally to the store?
but for me quality isn't the main issue. The disappearance of smallscale family farms and the loss of many thousands of jobs across the country and in my community along with the principle of affordable local food products being accessible to all is what gets me.
Of course we don't know exactly how much of the market will be opened yet. I've heard the number 15%, which apparently will be more than enough to totally change the dynamics of dairy production in the country and will almost certainly result in the end of the quota system.
saskskierForgive me if I'm missing something here, but does opening up the dairy market also mean there are going to be changes in food quality standards?
So from people I've talked to (haven't read any sources though):
hormone and antibiotic use in dairy cattle is incredibly strict here with practically no tolerance (except to treat animals that are sick, in which case they're milk will not be used)
hormone and antibiotic use in dairy is not highly regulated in the US and their milk is of lower quality as a result (certain antibiotics easily carry into the milk)
Since there are strict regulations at production level, there are not strict regulations at sales level on hormones and antibiotics in dairy products.
As the regulations stand now dairy products produced and packaged in the US and sold in Canada will not have to meet any restrictions on levels of hormones and antibiotics.
The large factory farms are the farms where hormone and antibiotic use is greatest and the large factory farms will be the only place US dairy will come from in Canada otherwise it won't be economical.
So yes. The quality of dairy products will absolutely take a dive.
VinnieFSo from people I've talked to (haven't read any sources though):hormone and antibiotic use in dairy cattle is incredibly strict here with practically no tolerance (except to treat animals that are sick, in which case they're milk will not be used)
hormone and antibiotic use in dairy is not highly regulated in the US and their milk is of lower quality as a result (certain antibiotics easily carry into the milk)
Since there are strict regulations at production level, there are not strict regulations at sales level on hormones and antibiotics in dairy products.
As the regulations stand now dairy products produced and packaged in the US and sold in Canada will not have to meet any restrictions on levels of hormones and antibiotics.
The large factory farms are the farms where hormone and antibiotic use is greatest and the large factory farms will be the only place US dairy will come from in Canada otherwise it won't be economical.
So yes. The quality of dairy products will absolutely take a dive.
A) The US was pushing to open up 9-10% of the market. Is that enough to drastically change the product quality Canadian consumers get? If it's a crappy product, don't buy it? I get it would be tough for producers, but not sure about a drastic change in quality (although I admit I'm no expert on the dairy market)
B) At this point, it's not happening:
saskskierA) The US was pushing to open up 9-10% of the market. Is that enough to drastically change the product quality Canadian consumers get? If it's a crappy product, don't buy it? I get it would be tough for producers, but not sure about a drastic change in quality (although I admit I'm no expert on the dairy market)B) At this point, it's not happening:
maybe you or I wouldn't change the milk we buy, but what about all the milk products made in canada? would the producers not want to start using the cheaper options to make more money?
Also everyone should read this:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-election-2015-saudi-arabia-neil-macdonald-1.3251239
Honestly the amount of bullshit being thrown around just drives me nuts. I can't wait for this election to be over. I honestly want to punch Harper in the face for calling the election so early and making us slog through this shit.
That being said I think they are all idiots. Basically just having to pick the lesser of all the evils which in my case I think will be the NDP.
I think the conservative's use of fear tactics is just disgraceful, and I can overlook all the corruption in that party. (Senate scandal, KPMG tax fraud, F-35 issues). Honestly it's just time to move on.
As much as I like Trudeau....the party he represents is just rotting away. Same old liberals....same old shit. Some of the policies are new to try and make the party seem progressive but in you look at who he wants to put into his cabinet it's the same song and dance. I will say that the cons need to shut the fuck up about his experience. Hell....he has been in Ottawa longer then most of Harpers bum buddies.
I think the NDP just have the most common sense of all the three parties. I honestly am not super fond of Muclair but the platform and the party seem solid and not crazy.
VinnieFlol Harper"Tobacco is a product that does a lot of damage. Marijuana is infinitely worse"
how many deaths a year due to tobacco? how many deaths a year due to cannabis? tell me again which is worse
Marajauna. If we as a society have to live with people dying earlier because of their own decision to smoke tobacco, when they've already paid the tax on their cigarettes to cover the health care costs, then that's fine.
But if we have to live with the long term effects of dulled senses and lowered productivity for people who smoke weed then that isn't something we can quantify or tax, and the Canadian economy will ultimately take the hit.
dbchiliMarajauna. If we as a society have to live with people dying earlier because of their own decision to smoke tobacco, when they've already paid the tax on their cigarettes to cover the health care costs, then that's fine.But if we have to live with the long term effects of dulled senses and lowered productivity for people who smoke weed then that isn't something we can quantify or tax, and the Canadian economy will ultimately take the hit.
hold up. who said businesses would allow smoking weed/being high at work? Alcohol is legal but I can't think of many jobs where you won't get fired being drunk at work. So no, the economy will not take a hit.
Also how many work hours are lost each year due to smoke breaks? If a person takes 4 smoke breaks a day at 5 minutes each then that's 86 hours a year or about 1800 dollars lost by the employer at an average wage.
somewhere around 17% of Canadians smoke, 18 million people in the Canadian workforce, so about 3 million smokers.
5.4 BILLION dollars lost to smoke breaks alone if smokers take on average four 5 minutes breaks.
I suppose many jobs don't allow smoke breaks, but how much productivity is lost by those sitting at their desk craving a cigarette?
Points being:
1- Legalizing weed =/= allowing people to be high at work. Alcohol is a good example to look at.
2- If you're worried about lost productivity then you should really look at cigarettes and push for them to be illegal.
I'm voting liberal. Policies fit best with my personal needs and my riding's MP (Ralph Goodale) I have met personally and really like.
He was also voted best MP in canada for 2006 and I can see why.
http://www.macleans.ca/politics/parliamentarian-of-the-year-2006-ralph-goodale/
The NDP and Conservatives are both making some serious last minute jabs at the Liberals as they see their chances fading away.
Wasn't expecting a majority, but pleased enough I supposed.
Canadians went straight for their comfort zone this election. There's a reason the Liberals are called Canada's natural ruling party and were in power for 70% of the last century.
Now let's see how many promises they follow through on. They have no excuses not to with a majority (barring the Senate being a stick in their spokes)
VinnieFWasn't expecting a majority, but pleased enough I supposed.Canadians went straight for their comfort zone this election. There's a reason the Liberals are called Canada's natural ruling party and were in power for 70% of the last century.
Now let's see how many promises they follow through on. They have no excuses not to with a majority (barring the Senate being a stick in their spokes)
Honestly, I'm wouldn't be surprised if tons of people voted Liberal because they didn't want Harper, not because they are comfortable with Trudeau and the Liberals.
saskskierHonestly, I'm wouldn't be surprised if tons of people voted Liberal because they didn't want Harper, not because they are comfortable with Trudeau and the Liberals.
That's what won them the majority for sure. Just a shit ton of people really not wanting Harper who decided to vote Liberal over NDP because they had the better chance of winning.
Still, not pleased that they can win a majority with less than 40% of the vote. Not pleased at all. Should be a minority.
VinnieFThat's what won them the majority for sure. Just a shit ton of people really not wanting Harper who decided to vote Liberal over NDP because they had the better chance of winning.Still, not pleased that they can win a majority with less than 40% of the vote. Not pleased at all. Should be a minority.
Well if the liberals follow through (ha), this should be the last first past the post election.
Now Harper can finally take his place in history as one of the worst Prime Ministers for Canada. I guess he'll be remembered how someone like Thatcher is remembered. Mostly with hate and disgust, but loved by the very few who were his core following.
Vincent's updated list of Prime Minister who were the best for this country:
Laurier
Mackenzie King
MacDonald
Pearson
St Laurent
Trudeau
Borden
Cretien
Diefenbaker
Bennett
.
.
.
21. Harper
22. Turner
23. Campbell
erikKBlows my mind that a Prime Minister can completely fuck over half the country and still be considered goodHere's to hoping his son has a little more empathy
I don't have high hopes that he'll be much better for Western Canada. I mean at the very least, Harper was from Alberta and we've got an NDP gov't right now. There was next to no love for him here in the election yesterday. Back to the good ol' days of Ontario/Quebec being the only parts of Canada that matter to the feds.
Prove me wrong JT.
saskskierI don't have high hopes that he'll be much better for Western Canada. I mean at the very least, Harper was from Alberta and we've got an NDP gov't right now. There was next to no love for him here in the election yesterday. Back to the good ol' days of Ontario/Quebec being the only parts of Canada that matter to the feds.Prove me wrong JT.
No doubt, I hope he does prove me wrong.
PoLaRpEaKA part of me likes massive economic and social experiments.
You do realize the party that was just elected is pretty much the same party that's been in power for something like 2/3rds of Canada's history, right?
This isn't some crazy new party with crazy ideas, this is the same old Liberal party that Canada always elects with very similar policies and ideologies to every other Liberal government.
There really is no experimentation going on here. It's the party that's had the single largest hand in shaping Canada into what it is today.
saskskierI don't have high hopes that he'll be much better for Western Canada. I mean at the very least, Harper was from Alberta and we've got an NDP gov't right now. There was next to no love for him here in the election yesterday. Back to the good ol' days of Ontario/Quebec being the only parts of Canada that matter to the feds.Prove me wrong JT.
Trudeau went to school in Vancouver and lived in Whistler teaching snowboarding for a number of years. He's got some roots in western Canada. Here's hoping he puts those to good use.
Why does western canada always have to act like the rest of canada is out to get them? I've lived in Alberta and BC my whole life and that perception drives me nuts.
Trudeau and the libs aren't stupid, they aren't going to take away your precious tar sands or your fugly white pickup truck. They know the tarsands is a precious resource going into the future. But they also know that it can't go as unregulated as it has for too much longer. It's time respect was given not only to the oil companies, but to the thousands of hectares of destroyed forests, the polluted local waters, and the First Nations peoples in the area. It's about balance, and balance is why the Libs always come back to power.
Trudeau is the perfect face on a strong liberal party right now, and I have high hopes.
Save the CBC, save Parks Canada, save the libraries, save Canada post.
will_powderWhy does western canada always have to act like the rest of canada is out to get them? I've lived in Alberta and BC my whole life and that perception drives me nuts.Trudeau and the libs aren't stupid, they aren't going to take away your precious tar sands or your fugly white pickup truck. They know the tarsands is a precious resource going into the future. But they also know that it can't go as unregulated as it has for too much longer. It's time respect was given not only to the oil companies, but to the thousands of hectares of destroyed forests, the polluted local waters, and the First Nations peoples in the area. It's about balance, and balance is why the Libs always come back to power.
Trudeau is the perfect face on a strong liberal party right now, and I have high hopes.
Save the CBC, save Parks Canada, save the libraries, save Canada post.
Why do we need door to door mail service? Make exceptions for people who are elderly or disabled and unable to walk a block to the box, but otherwise I don't see any need for it.
I'm pretty happy even if I didn't vote Liberal. Getting Harper out was the number 1 priority. I don't agree with all of his party's policies but Trudeau strikes me as a really genuine guy who has the best interest of all Canadians in mind; he's not some old fuck corrupt politician. He campaigned on some promises that were politically difficult like ganja and deficit spending, let's hope he sticks to them all. Anyways, much of the good work the Liberals can do will be in fixing the mess Harper has left us.
saskskierForgive me if I'm missing something here, but does opening up the dairy market also mean there are going to be changes in food quality standards?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trans-pacific-partnership-milk-imports-hormones-1.3276739