When purchasing a new pair of skis, is it wiser to buy from larger more established companies like atomic, armada, k2 ect or smaller ones like on3p, J, or Icelantic. Im wondering because I just bought a new pair of atomics because they were such a good price (13,14 infamous) but Ive heard larger companies design their skis to last maybe 2 years before they enivitably fold to wear and tear, and which point they expect you to buy another pair. This is in contrast to smaller, less established companies that charge at least double per pair but have better reputations when it comes to durability and customer service. What is the truth about this subject and what is the best choice, big companies or small, when all things such as price, durability, morality and performance are concerned??
OregonDeadAs far as morality is concerned it is your moral duty to have as much fun as possible on your new skis. I wouldn't worry about anything else other than being kind and sharing the good vibes.
tru
really, bigger companies are for producing large quantities of skis, while smaller companies are for the quality
imo, smaller companies are kinda better because quality is more for the comsumer and they have better customer service
that's why most people who want the best skis buy from ON3P or J
Realistically, and with all due respect to the smaller companies, the consistency of skis from a larger outfit is always going to be better than a smaller one. When you're using CNC machines to mill your cores and things like that then they're all going to be exactly the same, versus a guy with a jig and a router who might be tired, grumpy, hungover, whatever.
You just hear about big brands skis failing more because there's so many more out there. 1% failure rate on 10000 skis is still a lot more than 5% failure on 100 skis.
The thing about the skis being made to fall apart after a couple of years is pure bollocks, skis are better made and more robust and built from better materials than ever these days. It's more likely that we're just skiing harder and doing things on them that push the limits of the skis. I mean yes, there are "price-point" skis like the Infamous or the K2 Sight and they're not as well built as a top-end ski but they're still well made and built from good materials.
I'm not hating on the small brands at all - usually they build niche products to fill a small market section and they often, due to their size, have the flexibility to build lots of designs and evolve products rapidly whereas the development and tooling costs for mass-production mean you can't go all crazy. The cost more or less comes from them not getting economies of scale that the big brands do - it's not because they're necessarily using better materials or anything like that.
I'd have to disagree with you, at least partially about the consistency thing. The smaller companies like ON3P, Praxis, Kitten Factory, etc have pretty nice equipment. Just because they're not pumping out tens of thousands of skis doesn't mean they are any less consistent. In fact quality control is arguably better with the small brands, because the manufacturing process is much more intimate, and it's a lot harder to have a bad ski slip through.
As far as small vs big ski companies, I'm pretty sold on indy brands. Had the opportunity to mount a lot of ski binding inserts this summer (= drilling a lot of semi large holes in skis). The difference between core quality is pretty surprising honestly. The Rossignol Super 7 core was practically crumbling and splintering away, k2 and line weren't any better. However, ON3P and Praxis were awesome, you could really tell the materials they are using are top notch. The small companies (at least ON3P and Praxis) are considerably more durable that mainstream skis as well IMO. Beefy edges and bases FTW.
On top of, you are not paying "twice as much" for the indy companies. For one thing if you're smart about when you buy, you can save a ton of money on any ski- but more often than not the skis are the same price between Indy and big companies (comparing to the higher end models for big companies). In the upcoming Praxis presale you can get a custom made ski, in the length, core layup, flex, base graphics, and topsheet graphics you want for $500~
ON3Ps are for sale $500-$600 right now too.
IMO that's an insane deal for the price you're paying.
The way I look at it is all skis will break sooner or later so for the most part I don't worry to much about who I'm buying from. I buy the most fun skis I can find regardless of the brand. For pure park skis you may get a day you get 4 years out of them but they will break eventually.
I would agree about better consistency and build quaility from the big brands, the amount they spend on production just does not compare to the smaller brands.
But what the smaller brands can do is innovate quickly. If you are building skis in house it's much easier to experiment and change things. So the small brand often have some pretty cool ideas.
Overall i I enjoy skis from big and small brands. I currently ride salomons and on3p as my park skis and like them both equally. So don't worry about the brand find a ski you like.
There are just as many shitty large scale manufacturers as there are shitty indies. Machines at your disposal do not dictate the end result of the project. The operator of the machine and acceptable end results really dictate how the machine is used. CNC technology is really a game changer in manufacturing but also opens up a whole new can of worms and human error.
ON3P has been profiling cores with a planer crib and a planer since day 1. We are working on developing some new machines and techniques to replace that process with CNC. In the mean time a planer crib passing through a non CNC planer is the method that we use and trust.
For the past 2 years I have profiled the majority of the cores at ON3P. We work within tolerances as tight as CNC tolerances. When we switch profiles we have 40 check points per pair of cores until all those points are dialed in. Profiling cores this way is just as consistent as cores that we profile on our CNC.
Edge and base meets are something that generally make me cringe. Most companies large and small are using edge stock bent to the profile of a ski on a CNC edge bender. A lot of large companies bend their edges in house and others including a lot of indies order their edges pre bent from an edge manufacturer. Most of these companies do fine tune bending before attaching to the base or layup. Next time you are in a ski shop look for gaps along the base edge meets on skis. I guarantee you find these gaps on large manufacturers and indies alike.
Any manufacturer, large or small is capable of having tight edge meets. The truth is it is generally more labor intensive to have solid edge meets.
I could go on for days but the size of the manufacturer really does not dictate the consistency of the final product.
rozboonRealistically, and with all due respect to the smaller companies, the consistency of skis from a larger outfit is always going to be better than a smaller one. When you're using CNC machines to mill your cores and things like that then they're all going to be exactly the same, versus a guy with a jig and a router who might be tired, grumpy, hungover, whatever.You just hear about big brands skis failing more because there's so many more out there. 1% failure rate on 10000 skis is still a lot more than 5% failure on 100 skis.
it all depends. in my experience bigger companies have more sales meaning their skis dont have to be crazy durability wise cause they have sold so many. smaller ones on the other hand are the exact opposite. but this is just in my experience. not all ski companies fit this general rule. any ski company can build a bomber ass ski or a shit ski it just depends. thats why its important to research each ski you buy individually and carefully