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As a special pre-christmas gift, we're going to open up a public beta of a new homepage design that's been in the works for a while now.
We're excited about it, as its a blend of the community-focused concept we've been pushing for two years now, and a nostalgic nod to the homepages that our more senior members will remember.
Its designed to give a much more list-based view of the world, and to feature the exceptional content that comes out on this site to the max.
Please give it a try in your regular visits and let me know how you like it!
Just logged on NS on my phone. And I've gotta say I love it when using the mobile app. So yeah don't like the computer version but love the internet version.
from a functional perspective, I hate the the slider. Everyone thinks sliders are cool.... It really serves very little purpose because the amount of people who are going to watch more than the first 3 slides is very minimal.
One current trend is to grid out the featured content. I like this idea FAR more. It highlights it and makes it interesting and you can see everything and decide where you want to go from there. I love this grid because they put some serious effort into styling it: https://roadtrippers.com/welcome
In regards to the content... I'm just going to leave an image of the very basic things I would do to make it easier to view.
I was never a fan of the new homepage design so this is a welcome sight. My only concern is that it feels a bit cluttered when you start scrolling but other than that me gusta.
Make an option for either new homepage or old home page. I personally dislike the new look, and if there was no escape from it i'd be pretty upset
Why update the homepage when there was nothing wrong with it? That's the one thing that drives me nuts about things like websites. If a website it doing fine, don't go trying to update it to make it look better, it normally looks worse and makes people angry.
For example, the new Skype. I personally hate the new Skype. There was nothing wrong with the old one, but someone decided to change the layout for no good reason. Thank god I know my way around computers and can downgrade from that clunky ugly setup.
I would like it if the little tag that is in the upper right corner that says "pic, video, news, etc." was moved to the corner of the thumbnail, just to make it easier to see what you're seeing as you scroll through.
I'm a professional web developer/designer, so naturally I have a few opinions regarding the new design.
The single best aspect of Newschoolers is its user-created content. The site acts as a hub for ski edits, photos, product reviews, etc produced by members of an awesome community, and I've always loved how the homepage showcases everybody's creativity in one place.
I believe that the new layout falls short in this area -- it just doesn't create the same sense of community that we love so much. Here are a few reasons why (some more nitty gritty than others):
- It looks and feels like a blog. This isn't Powder or Freeskier -- although we have great news articles, our content is user-created (and curated) so, in my opinion, it shouldn't feel like a publication. I know that many of you may disagree, but when I look at the new homepage I don't feel like I've landed on a community website.
- Content gets lost. The dead simplicity of the old (or current?) layout is awesome. I understand the thinking behind the new content structure -- more prominent or popular items are featured (top slider) while less important/older content get sifted to the bottom. This method is great in a lot of situations, but I'm not sure if it works in this case. For instance, I feel the urge to scroll down the page before clicking through the slider items, which means I've already missed some of the most important content on the page. Image sliders like that are often used as a way to display lots of important information in the same place. Personally, I think they suck and are a relic of the days when we believed that people hated scrolling, which simply isn't true. It's a heck of a lot easier to move my scroll wheel than it is to click through a slider, so I definitely prefer to see more content as I move down the page. I don't like when I have to click on something to expose hidden content that should really be visible already.
- Sidebars are awful. On content-based websites, sidebars have long been the go-to method for displaying advertisements. The basic thinking is that we'll put the ads on the side and they won't bug people -- great. This became a standard that people got very used to, which means it's now almost an instinct to ignore the sidebar area altogether. Many sites use them as a dumping ground for items that don't really fit anywhere else (ads, social media links, extra crap that nobody really wants). The problem with our new sidebar is that it actually has important content in it. I know it's "sponsored" content, but it's still great content! Putting it in a place where people tend to ignore things is a disservice to both your users and your advertisers, and I think we'd be better off if it was just mixed into the normal stream (but given a higher ranking among other items).
That's all I have for now. Overall, I just like the way the current design creates a diverse yet ordered mixture of content that really reflects the creative and collaborative nature of the freeskiing community. Feel free to let me know if you disagree with what I've said (wait, who am I kidding? This is Newschoolers) -- I always like to discuss this kind of stuff with other people.
Frankly, Bishop, after a week of using the beta, I don't like it at all. It feels very cluttered and I can't really focus on any particular piece. I don't like the idea of the slider/slideshow at the top of the page, either. I really liked the prominence of the last homepage. It was very simple, aesthetically relaxing, and easy to find cool stuff. There just seems to be stuff everywhere in the new layout and it's really not working for me.
gavinrudyFrankly, Bishop, after a week of using the beta, I don't like it at all. It feels very cluttered and I can't really focus on any particular piece. I don't like the idea of the slider/slideshow at the top of the page, either. I really liked the prominence of the last homepage. It was very simple, aesthetically relaxing, and easy to find cool stuff. There just seems to be stuff everywhere in the new layout and it's really not working for me.
yes! i rescind my statement. I feel stressed when I visit the homepage and it's very busy. I can't focus either and the other one was much more chill and flowy, if that makes sense. i don't like it.
gavinrudyFrankly, Bishop, after a week of using the beta, I don't like it at all. It feels very cluttered and I can't really focus on any particular piece. I don't like the idea of the slider/slideshow at the top of the page, either. I really liked the prominence of the last homepage. It was very simple, aesthetically relaxing, and easy to find cool stuff. There just seems to be stuff everywhere in the new layout and it's really not working for me.
I agree with this sentiment. Not going to lie my NS usage has gone down probably 40% due to this new layout. Granted I am on all the time but you see the issue.
i think its way better. The last page had videos that would only be up in the top of the news feed for a total of a 12 hour period and then dissapear. The style of having the top 8 things in rotation at the top also is really helpful especially to small edit makers such as myself if a normal video of ours would only get 5,000 views on the old homepage then go down on the page and be lost. here if it makes vid of the day it will be displayed for a few more days allowing re watches and a lot more views to the video
I really don't like it, preferred the other one a lot more, seems like there's just to much in a page, not as easy to watch and spot things that interest you, and its more ugly imo...
also sponsored section is mostly old content but takes a big part of the page, i prefer seeing more new content than old sponsored content
psiemensI'm a professional web developer/designer, so naturally I have a few opinions regarding the new design.
The single best aspect of Newschoolers is its user-created content. The site acts as a hub for ski edits, photos, product reviews, etc produced by members of an awesome community, and I've always loved how the homepage showcases everybody's creativity in one place.
I believe that the new layout falls short in this area -- it just doesn't create the same sense of community that we love so much. Here are a few reasons why (some more nitty gritty than others):
- It looks and feels like a blog. This isn't Powder or Freeskier -- although we have great news articles, our content is user-created (and curated) so, in my opinion, it shouldn't feel like a publication. I know that many of you may disagree, but when I look at the new homepage I don't feel like I've landed on a community website.
- Content gets lost. The dead simplicity of the old (or current?) layout is awesome. I understand the thinking behind the new content structure -- more prominent or popular items are featured (top slider) while less important/older content get sifted to the bottom. This method is great in a lot of situations, but I'm not sure if it works in this case. For instance, I feel the urge to scroll down the page before clicking through the slider items, which means I've already missed some of the most important content on the page. Image sliders like that are often used as a way to display lots of important information in the same place. Personally, I think they suck and are a relic of the days when we believed that people hated scrolling, which simply isn't true. It's a heck of a lot easier to move my scroll wheel than it is to click through a slider, so I definitely prefer to see more content as I move down the page. I don't like when I have to click on something to expose hidden content that should really be visible already.
- Sidebars are awful. On content-based websites, sidebars have long been the go-to method for displaying advertisements. The basic thinking is that we'll put the ads on the side and they won't bug people -- great. This became a standard that people got very used to, which means it's now almost an instinct to ignore the sidebar area altogether. Many sites use them as a dumping ground for items that don't really fit anywhere else (ads, social media links, extra crap that nobody really wants). The problem with our new sidebar is that it actually has important content in it. I know it's "sponsored" content, but it's still great content! Putting it in a place where people tend to ignore things is a disservice to both your users and your advertisers, and I think we'd be better off if it was just mixed into the normal stream (but given a higher ranking among other items).
That's all I have for now. Overall, I just like the way the current design creates a diverse yet ordered mixture of content that really reflects the creative and collaborative nature of the freeskiing community. Feel free to let me know if you disagree with what I've said (wait, who am I kidding? This is Newschoolers) -- I always like to discuss this kind of stuff with other people.
Rachyfrom a functional perspective, I hate the the slider. Everyone thinks sliders are cool.... It really serves very little purpose because the amount of people who are going to watch more than the first 3 slides is very minimal.
One current trend is to grid out the featured content. I like this idea FAR more. It highlights it and makes it interesting and you can see everything and decide where you want to go from there. I love this grid because they put some serious effort into styling it: https://roadtrippers.com/welcome
In regards to the content... I'm just going to leave an image of the very basic things I would do to make it easier to view.
I like some of your suggestions for design, and we can definitely take a few passes at making the thing prettier. We really wanted to get a test of concept out there in the wild before we went too much further with it.
As for the grid, I know these things can work. The main problem is they are very reliant on the image associated vs. the text. What we've found over time is that since NS is User content for the most part, the thumbnails are totally inconsistent. THreads they are non-existent.
Most of what makes NS content attractive is the text associated with it. Who created it, who is in it, title, info, score, comments, etc give you a lot more of a compelling story to find something good.
When we designed the grid it looked amazing . It wasn't until the live data flowed into it that we started seeing challenges with a much more visual image-based layout.
That is the logic anyway.
Also, as for the slider data, we're going to watch that pretty closely in this testing phase and see if people are clicking on it or just bypassing.
PDegI was never a fan of the current homepage but can say that I really like what you're doing with this new one. Thumbs up from me
Awesome man! I'm happy to hear that. The community was very divided on the current homepage, and it seems as though we're pretty divided once again. One of the biggest problems in these discussions is that only the angry people tend to participate. So we get a very skewed view by just listening to the chatter. Same thing happened with the current page, all arguments always went negative and the people who loved it have stayed silent until now.
So if you're out there reading this and like the direction we're going in, its vital that you add your positive opinion to the debate.
TwinipzMake an option for either new homepage or old home page. I personally dislike the new look, and if there was no escape from it i'd be pretty upset
Why update the homepage when there was nothing wrong with it? That's the one thing that drives me nuts about things like websites. If a website it doing fine, don't go trying to update it to make it look better, it normally looks worse and makes people angry.
We won't be able to support this permanently. Eventually once all the testing is done we're going to have to pick one or the other. I woud love to support multiple layouts, but its just not realistic given the development resources we have.
We made the decision to change because of the usage data. The old homepage was having a lot of challenges driving views into content. It was great for displaying a shitload of it, but it was starting to appear to not be enticing people into clicking.
So the main 'broken' thing was that it was great for causally browsing, but not driving nearly the engagement numbers with content we want to have.
Diraclooks like you just wanted a way to display more ads...
Its not really more ads than before. The sponsored column sure is a big one, but currently all the ad content is just blended into the normal view. We wanted to separate it to have a more clear definition.
As well, we want to come up with something that isn't just more gigantic flashing blatant advertising. Companies really want to share their content, so this is an attempt to offer a product that just links people to good content.
~Gotama~I would like it if the little tag that is in the upper right corner that says "pic, video, news, etc." was moved to the corner of the thumbnail, just to make it easier to see what you're seeing as you scroll through.
Yeah we can totally play around with that. There's a few people making different suggestions that we'll look at but I agree it isn't quite right yet.
psiemensI'm a professional web developer/designer, so naturally I have a few opinions regarding the new design.
The single best aspect of Newschoolers is its user-created content. The site acts as a hub for ski edits, photos, product reviews, etc produced by members of an awesome community, and I've always loved how the homepage showcases everybody's creativity in one place.
I believe that the new layout falls short in this area -- it just doesn't create the same sense of community that we love so much. Here are a few reasons why (some more nitty gritty than others):
- It looks and feels like a blog. This isn't Powder or Freeskier -- although we have great news articles, our content is user-created (and curated) so, in my opinion, it shouldn't feel like a publication. I know that many of you may disagree, but when I look at the new homepage I don't feel like I've landed on a community website.
- Content gets lost. The dead simplicity of the old (or current?) layout is awesome. I understand the thinking behind the new content structure -- more prominent or popular items are featured (top slider) while less important/older content get sifted to the bottom. This method is great in a lot of situations, but I'm not sure if it works in this case. For instance, I feel the urge to scroll down the page before clicking through the slider items, which means I've already missed some of the most important content on the page. Image sliders like that are often used as a way to display lots of important information in the same place. Personally, I think they suck and are a relic of the days when we believed that people hated scrolling, which simply isn't true. It's a heck of a lot easier to move my scroll wheel than it is to click through a slider, so I definitely prefer to see more content as I move down the page. I don't like when I have to click on something to expose hidden content that should really be visible already.
- Sidebars are awful. On content-based websites, sidebars have long been the go-to method for displaying advertisements. The basic thinking is that we'll put the ads on the side and they won't bug people -- great. This became a standard that people got very used to, which means it's now almost an instinct to ignore the sidebar area altogether. Many sites use them as a dumping ground for items that don't really fit anywhere else (ads, social media links, extra crap that nobody really wants). The problem with our new sidebar is that it actually has important content in it. I know it's "sponsored" content, but it's still great content! Putting it in a place where people tend to ignore things is a disservice to both your users and your advertisers, and I think we'd be better off if it was just mixed into the normal stream (but given a higher ranking among other items).
That's all I have for now. Overall, I just like the way the current design creates a diverse yet ordered mixture of content that really reflects the creative and collaborative nature of the freeskiing community. Feel free to let me know if you disagree with what I've said (wait, who am I kidding? This is Newschoolers) -- I always like to discuss this kind of stuff with other people.
Love to hear more opinions! What kind of sites do you usually work with? The challenges of every category of website are way different, so we could probably get some awesome ideas out of you if we can get you in-line with the thinking of a massive community/media site.
Couple of points:
It looks/feels like a blog - Yes! It most certainly does.
One of the challenges we've faced is the perception of newschoolers within the industry. I know, you know and this community knows that above and beyond all else we're a social platform through and through. However, we have taken a drastically different approach to this community, where we have an enormous element of content producers who are part of our system. We want to support these content contributors, and give them as much external exposure as is humanly possible. The people that silently consume content on Newschoolers is enormous, and we've been trying to work on ways that they can see the content in the same light as we do - that its of an extremely high calibre.
So part of the reason we're applying a somewhat 'old-school' feeling vibe to the new layout is just that... to drive our community principle but to display it in a way that an outsider can put it in that box they put the other types of sites in. The display of the top content in the slider gives an extremely easy touch point for a once-a-week NSer to just grab all the super hot stuff. The rest of the page is there to give those who come every day a constantly updating list of the fast flowing awesome stuff going on every day.
Again I'm not saying we nailed it, but this is the idea.
Content gets lost - Any time you're ramming this much content into a page its going to get lost. Things very much get lost in the current system if they don't have a stellar thumbnail, so our goal is to level the playing field a bit. We had hoped over the years that we'd be able to solve the image-based issue, but it seems as though we haven't had success in this. Its both a technical and cultural problem, but the bottom line is it is a problem that needs to be addressed. The current layout works flawlessly with awesome images, but we just can't rely on that being the case with the content coming out of the community.
The slider is there for the less frequent visitors, and the list is there for those who are willing to scroll. I'm pretty sure that we'll see an uptick in scroll depth as people adjust to the habit of scrolling down that left column looking for black links they haven't yet clicked on. The data will help us see if this is infact the case.
Sidebars are awful - I'd highly debate that this is a blanket statement. Facebook still very successfully uses sidebars, so does Reddit, Mashable and many others. I know exactly what you mean and I'm not personally incredibly crazy about them, but they serve a purpose. Even aside from that point though, NS is a site built with columns. I'd love to re-design the whole thing, but again that is a lot more than we can do right now. The current homepage mashed content across all three columns, but time and time again we saw difficulty with how much the eye had to jump around the page. Having content blend into the 3rd column really got people's browsing quite lost - which maybe was a challenge of our specific design or perhaps something else - but very much a real issue.
We're trying to get people to use more of the mindset they use when browsing forums - its a vertical scroll where you're looking for new interesting text that catches your eye.
gavinrudyFrankly, Bishop, after a week of using the beta, I don't like it at all. It feels very cluttered and I can't really focus on any particular piece. I don't like the idea of the slider/slideshow at the top of the page, either. I really liked the prominence of the last homepage. It was very simple, aesthetically relaxing, and easy to find cool stuff. There just seems to be stuff everywhere in the new layout and it's really not working for me.
Please give it another week. When we launched the current homepage two years ago we had a ton of people give the exact same feedback as you just did here except for the opposite design philosophy. Though this may feel less ordered to you, many testers have felt it is much more linear and organized.
Debate by no means closed, but keep giving it a try. I want to see if the flow lines catch.
DoakI like it but i think the highlight tab thing moves too quickly, that could be just me though.
Very easy to change. We have slowed it down once already, and may do more of it.
NH_OPERATORI agree with this sentiment. Not going to lie my NS usage has gone down probably 40% due to this new layout. Granted I am on all the time but you see the issue.
This sounds pretty dramatic. What about the old layout made you use the site 40% more? Did you just spend 40% of your time sitting there on the homepage scrolling through content, and now that its gone you have completely stopped? People really easily jump to freak out mode when change happens, but to not throw the baby out with the bathwater we need you to try embracing the new layout and seeing if new usage patterns kick in.
Again, this is all designed around a person like you scrolling through that left list looking for black links you haven't yet visited. Try thinking this way, and seeing if the mindset takes. If in another week it hasn't please go into further detail about exactly what isn't working for you.
OGoriginal-gaperi dislike it
More info would be very helpful. Just saying you don't like it gives me very little to go on and I'll just end up ignoring your feedback as a sidenote. Information is absolutely critical at this juncture, so please elaborate!
FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO LIKE IT
Please also speak up about what you do like. These conversations can easily spiral in the direction of the detractors if those who like it don't say anything.
Are you going to bring back the ability to choose between content. So have the video, news, photos etc tab ever again? Because I felt like that was a very easy way for me to find content I felt like seeing. Now it's luck of the draw to if a thread or photo or anything else takes my fancy.
I often find myself now just partaking in bumped threads rather than looking at all of them and same goes with photos.
ChubbyBoyAre you going to bring back the ability to choose between content. So have the video, news, photos etc tab ever again? Because I felt like that was a very easy way for me to find content I felt like seeing. Now it's luck of the draw to if a thread or photo or anything else takes my fancy.
I often find myself now just partaking in bumped threads rather than looking at all of them and same goes with photos.
We may, yes.
However also try the individual sections up top. News, Photos, Videos. It might be better worth our time to invest in making those displays better.
I know that at least the top rated video page is used dramatically more than the homepage sorter for top rated videos. Same data, but that page is one of our best performers out of all content pages.
However also try the individual sections up top. News, Photos, Videos. It might be better worth our time to invest in making those displays better.
I know that at least the top rated video page is used dramatically more than the homepage sorter for top rated videos. Same data, but that page is one of our best performers out of all content pages.
Give that a shot and see how it works.
Oh yeah, the top rated of day and hot tabs are very useful for quickly finding great content. However using this, excludes other content that may of been lost in the scramble of content.
The "endless scroll" ends way too early. I feel like by the time I get to the bottom of where it will give me more content I would have been maybe 2 pages down on the old page, so there is simply less there it seems. Also having the "sponsored" things stand apart really grates on me. Alot of these seem to be things I would be interested in but because they are labeled as "sponsored" I pretty much ignore them as being advertising. I would remove the sponsored sidebar and throw them back into the main feed. I seriously hardly look at that sidebar because I disregard it as being advertising. I really think the whole thing is just really damn ugly too. I think using the scrolling top bar with the old layout below it would be the best of both worlds.
Mr.BishopIt looks/feels like a blog - Yes! It most certainly does.
One of the challenges we've faced is the perception of newschoolers within the industry. I know, you know and this community knows that above and beyond all else we're a social platform through and through. However, we have taken a drastically different approach to this community, where we have an enormous element of content producers who are part of our system. We want to support these content contributors, and give them as much external exposure as is humanly possible. The people that silently consume content on Newschoolers is enormous, and we've been trying to work on ways that they can see the content in the same light as we do - that its of an extremely high calibre.
So part of the reason we're applying a somewhat 'old-school' feeling vibe to the new layout is just that... to drive our community principle but to display it in a way that an outsider can put it in that box they put the other types of sites in. The display of the top content in the slider gives an extremely easy touch point for a once-a-week NSer to just grab all the super hot stuff. The rest of the page is there to give those who come every day a constantly updating list of the fast flowing awesome stuff going on every day.
Again I'm not saying we nailed it, but this is the idea.
Content gets lost - Any time you're ramming this much content into a page its going to get lost. Things very much get lost in the current system if they don't have a stellar thumbnail, so our goal is to level the playing field a bit. We had hoped over the years that we'd be able to solve the image-based issue, but it seems as though we haven't had success in this. Its both a technical and cultural problem, but the bottom line is it is a problem that needs to be addressed. The current layout works flawlessly with awesome images, but we just can't rely on that being the case with the content coming out of the community.
The slider is there for the less frequent visitors, and the list is there for those who are willing to scroll. I'm pretty sure that we'll see an uptick in scroll depth as people adjust to the habit of scrolling down that left column looking for black links they haven't yet clicked on. The data will help us see if this is infact the case.
Sidebars are awful - I'd highly debate that this is a blanket statement. Facebook still very successfully uses sidebars, so does Reddit, Mashable and many others. I know exactly what you mean and I'm not personally incredibly crazy about them, but they serve a purpose. Even aside from that point though, NS is a site built with columns. I'd love to re-design the whole thing, but again that is a lot more than we can do right now. The current homepage mashed content across all three columns, but time and time again we saw difficulty with how much the eye had to jump around the page. Having content blend into the 3rd column really got people's browsing quite lost - which maybe was a challenge of our specific design or perhaps something else - but very much a real issue.
We're trying to get people to use more of the mindset they use when browsing forums - its a vertical scroll where you're looking for new interesting text that catches your eye.
First of all, I want to apologize for coming across as overly critical of the new design. There are definitely things I do like about it -- namely the concentration of content into a single stream. Much like Reddit, it's easy to scroll down the new homepage without missing anything.
To give a bit of background about myself: I've been doing web development for ~5 years. I've worked independently and for several digital agencies doing client-based work, but right now I'm halfway through a CS degree, so most of what I've done lately has been freelance. However, I'm currently working full-time at my school's student newspaper (the largest in Canada) as the web developer, and was given the task of redesigning a news website (with the help of 3-4 volunteers) that is used by roughly 40,000 students + faculty. The content isn't community-produced, but we still rely on a large pool of volunteers to write most of our stories, so it's at least somewhat comparable to your situation. We're still only about halfway through the whole process and I'd be really keen to talk with you to compare design/development ideas.
It's cool that you want to give content producers a platform to share their work beyond the NS community -- I really dig this idea. I applaud you guys for this and I'm really excited to see how you continue to go about accomplishing it. I guess the question is: how do you appeal to silent consumers while still preserving our own community? Obviously you've had more time to think about it than I have, but I definitely see the challenge.
I totally get the technical/cultural problems around using a system that relies so heavily on thumbnails. I built a news wire app for Canadian campus newspapers last year and ran into the same issue -- content with a great thumbnail will almost always stand out against those with a less interesting/no thumbnail. I still think there might be a better way to do it.
You're right, saying that sidebars are awful was definitely a blanket statement. What I should have said was that I don't think sidebars are a place for content to live. Take Facebook for example -- it makes use of two sidebars on either side of the news feed, but neither of them hold much changing content and remain relatively static. They're functional areas with buttons and links to different parts of the site, and the little content they do display (events, birthdays, trends) is somewhat extraneous. All of the main content exists in the central feed -- the only part of the page that actually moves. Reddit is arguably the same. With NS, I just worry that users will focus on the main stream of content (especially as they scroll) and may not pay so much attention to the sidebar. That being said, I love that you guys are collecting data on this and would be very interested to see what you find.
NH_OPERATORThe "endless scroll" ends way too early. I feel like by the time I get to the bottom of where it will give me more content I would have been maybe 2 pages down on the old page, so there is simply less there it seems. Also having the "sponsored" things stand apart really grates on me. Alot of these seem to be things I would be interested in but because they are labeled as "sponsored" I pretty much ignore them as being advertising. I would remove the sponsored sidebar and throw them back into the main feed. I seriously hardly look at that sidebar because I disregard it as being advertising. I really think the whole thing is just really damn ugly too. I think using the scrolling top bar with the old layout below it would be the best of both worlds.
The more I use the new layout the less I like it.
The endless scroll (which isn't and never has been endless) is actually far, far longer than it ever was on the old layout. Use two browsers, set one to beta and the other to current. You'll see just how much longer the new version was.
The problem we saw was that people almost never scrolled very deep with the thumbnail-style layout.
You can't say you 'hardly ever' look at the sponsored content when its this early. The content hasn't been shuffling much there and you have very limited time using it. So hold off on such strict blanket statements, and we'll look at the data to see how many people are using what.
Does sponsored content grate on you more than a gigantic 250 wide and 1000 pixel tall ad at the top of the page?
Mr.BishopThe endless scroll (which isn't and never has been endless) is actually far, far longer than it ever was on the old layout. Use two browsers, set one to beta and the other to current. You'll see just how much longer the new version was.
The problem we saw was that people almost never scrolled very deep with the thumbnail-style layout.
You can't say you 'hardly ever' look at the sponsored content when its this early. The content hasn't been shuffling much there and you have very limited time using it. So hold off on such strict blanket statements, and we'll look at the data to see how many people are using what.
Does sponsored content grate on you more than a gigantic 250 wide and 1000 pixel tall ad at the top of the page?
After a quick comparison the new view let me scroll down 32 stories. The old view got me to 37.
As far as the sponsored ads, banner adds do not bother me. I dont click them. Having stories labeled as sponsored makes my brain think, oh thats an ad, dont click on it. So I dont click on them at all even though they may be things like the TAFT or something. Its not something I am doing on purpose really unless I really conisder the story content itself. On the net you are bombarded with shit, I have been trained to completely ignore sidebars with sponsored content via places like facebook. I think if you remove the sponsored tag and blend them into the main feed it would go alot better.
NH_OPERATORAfter a quick comparison the new view let me scroll down 32 stories. The old view got me to 37.
As far as the sponsored ads, banner adds do not bother me. I dont click them. Having stories labeled as sponsored makes my brain think, oh thats an ad, dont click on it. So I dont click on them at all even though they may be things like the TAFT or something. Its not something I am doing on purpose really unless I really conisder the story content itself. On the net you are bombarded with shit, I have been trained to completely ignore sidebars with sponsored content via places like facebook. I think if you remove the sponsored tag and blend them into the main feed it would go alot better.
Add together the stuff in the slider and its exactly the same. I'm telling you, its the same data - but to the point of scrolling down the new layout occupies a lot more vertical space. Its supposed to be linear and more organized creating a better scroll flow.
You didn't ignore the sidebar though, you know the top story is TAFT which is exactly what it is. So it caught your eye. Maybe you didn't click, but if you'd have been into the content I'd bet my life you would have - or at least that a lot of people will.
90053it puts more emphasis on written content and on the last homepage there was too much stuff
90053as in the last one was like a collage of videos, this seems more like a hompage
You are very correct that we're trying to make it both feel like more of a homepage and put some emphasis on the hard work that the journalists have been doing. I've heard the 'collage of videos' complaint from a great deal of people, and it took away from what some of the other content actually was.
Mr.BishopAdd together the stuff in the slider and its exactly the same. I'm telling you, its the same data - but to the point of scrolling down the new layout occupies a lot more vertical space. Its supposed to be linear and more organized creating a better scroll flow.
You didn't ignore the sidebar though, you know the top story is TAFT which is exactly what it is. So it caught your eye. Maybe you didn't click, but if you'd have been into the content I'd bet my life you would have - or at least that a lot of people will.
You are very correct that we're trying to make it both feel like more of a homepage and put some emphasis on the hard work that the journalists have been doing. I've heard the 'collage of videos' complaint from a great deal of people, and it took away from what some of the other content actually was.
I know it is that because it I have been asked to think about it specifically. When I find my self scrolling and not thinking about it I lose all track of the sidebar.
what are the analytic's on people reading the 50th post on a forum topic?HA either way most of it has been answered/explained.
the whole blue/black content you have seen/new content was not something i noticed at all until i read one of your comments. making this more prominent seems ideal. and in my mind makes the homepage seem way less stagnant and less catered to weekly users rather than daily users.
psiemensIt's cool that you want to give content producers a platform to share their work beyond the NS community -- I really dig this idea. I applaud you guys for this and I'm really excited to see how you continue to go about accomplishing it. I guess the question is: how do you appeal to silent consumers while still preserving our own community? Obviously you've had more time to think about it than I have, but I definitely see the challenge.
I totally get the technical/cultural problems around using a system that relies so heavily on thumbnails. I built a news wire app for Canadian campus newspapers last year and ran into the same issue -- content with a great thumbnail will almost always stand out against those with a less interesting/no thumbnail. I still think there might be a better way to do it.
Cool to hear you're working on a newspaper site. That area is actually really interesting right now because there's such a revival of news flowing around the internet. The biggest challenge you'll face is getting people to actually visit the site - right now news distribution is dominated by facebook shares so the successful guys are really putting most of their effort into the page/content sharability vs. the actual layout. Jury is still out, I can definitely share whatever opinions i've got, but note that even the big boys like Powder are still trying to handle this challenge.
You've touched on a very important point - How do you appeal to solent consumers while preserving the community? I'll tell you one thing... its a god damn hard thing to address. :)
Less than 10% of Newschooolers' visitors ever log into their accounts. Our goal when we designed the 'metro' style page (which is the current thumbnail-based layout) was actually to weigh the design drastically in the favor of the community user experience. We completely dumped all the elements that the casual visitor would like and basically had the idea that we'd just convert everyone to the community style NSer. Loads of referrals were coming from social anyway, so we figured if we stoked the fuck out of the community that they'd just share the content automatically - and that casual user would get used to the idea that they could just click on anything at the top of the homepage and be guaranteed that its good. If they didn't like something in particular, filter it out and boom.
It sort of half worked and half backfired. The people in this thread who are really passionate about the metro layout obviously got it and fell in love. The data has shown that over time the casual NSer however absolutely did not get it. Instead of just trusting to click something at the top more and more they just sat there on facebook waiting for something of interest, or bypassed clicking on the homepage entirely on their way to the forums.
Overall views didn't drop either, they have grown immensely over time. The problem is that we completely spread out the view count - so content as a whole is being viewed more than it ever has, but that lightning rod effect where if you make it to the top you get a view bomb has dramatically decreased.
I didn't anticipate how much it would affect morale and content contributions where the idea of being the overnight big success was diminished. As well, I didn't anticipate how much someone who felt confused on the homepage would simply abandon ship vs. click on something. I've run enormous amounts of user testing and compared huge quantities of data - and the same conclusion keeps coming up... that super casual NSer needs one thing to click on which feels curated for them.
Anyway, all this is why we're going with a hybrid approach of something that can feel like a safe, traditional content site, yet if you want to peel back a layer you've still got all the community elements baked right into it. I know its a drastic change for someone who has developed patterns, but I'm confident that the patterns will come back to you with a bit of time, and we'll see an overall net benefit to everyone with a user experience designed to be a little more in the middle.
The thumbnail issue - I think everyone is battling with that right now. Pinterest came along and its explosion basically made everyone jump on the 'thumbnails are GOD' bandwagon. As well it solved so many design issues of trying to fit tonnes of different sized content into a small space. Easy for responsive design, etc. But it just doesn't work when you aren't solely an image sharing site. Pinterest works because its just about the pictures. Thumbnails don't work for news and videos because what you're going to like about that piece of content can't be expressed in a thumbnail - at least not easily.
I actually bet you're going to see a real sweep back to more text-focused and gridded layout. People's brains have gotten fatigued with the shit-absolutely-fucking-everywhere on the screen approach that pinterest really popularized. Everyone and their cat jumped on it, and I'm pretty sure still hasn't been able to make it work for news sites.
Black.BirdI really like it. Good job.
I hope it brings back the good old "FIRSTs!!!!" at every news story.
Dude, me too! We're going to be really pumping the news program back up. Its time for it to be reborn.
I don't know, it feels older? in some ways, like it is outdated. I think that the current version is great and it should stay forever. I feel like I get a bigger view on everything and can scan the page easier for the content I am interested in. Therefore I don't like the new layout as much.
KakdegI don't know, it feels older? in some ways, like it is outdated. I think that the current version is great and it should stay forever. I feel like I get a bigger view on everything and can scan the page easier for the content I am interested in. Therefore I don't like the new layout as much.
It definitely has throwback elements to NS of old. That is what we're going for.
I bet you can scan easier, but its only thumbnails that catch your eye. Try reading the text, scrolling through the list and looking for black links you haven't yet visited.
Ive added some pix. The line represents how I read the page. As you can see here, on the old page I scan left to right, giving equal eye time to all stories not about cars.
On the new page, I feel drunk when trying to read everything, as I have to sweep in and out of both columns to see all of it. So instead I do this.
Seeing the sponsored tags, and it being a sidebar that is not lining up with the main bar makes me completely ignore it most of the time.
I like the old one better but I'm an old dinosaur who is resistant to changes.
And, an addendum to what Harvey said about Pop up window messaging. I happen to like it the way it is. It's what makes NS please don't change it's one of the things that makes NS>NS.com
jackdonovanMore confusing than the layout now, and i feel like its harder to see as much as the normal layout. Maybe im just used to the old layout
Try just locking into that left column and looking for black links - these represent new content you haven't yet clicked on.
NH_OPERATOR
Seeing the sponsored tags, and it being a sidebar that is not lining up with the main bar makes me completely ignore it most of the time.
1337 ms paint skillz.
So this is exactly what we want. We want that straight line down the left to be the critical part of your NS homepage experience. If this is what you're doing, then I actually feel its working.
The sponsored content will only catch your eye when there is something really interesting to you that pops up there. So in an ideal world I'd love your last diagram which 95% of the time is a straight view line down the left. Then there would be 5% of the time where you do a quick zig to the right to check something cool posted there. The content on the right will flow a lot slower than the stuff on the left, which in initial testing is the reason we were trying to make it scroll slower than the rest of the content. Haven't yet been able to make that work smoothly on all browsers.
CraigskisI like the old one better but I'm an old dinosaur who is resistant to changes.
And, an addendum to what Harvey said about Pop up window messaging. I happen to like it the way it is. It's what makes NS please don't change it's one of the things that makes NS>NS.com
If you were a true dinosaur, you would see the 'new' homepage as a throwback to the NS of years past, and the way its been for about 8 years of the last decade. Its tough to really establish something that is what makes NS>NS.com - as that has changed a lot over the years. Admittedly though, the new homepage is a ton closer to the way its always been and the current one a massive departure.... so you could even go so far as to argue that we're getting back to our roots.
So this is exactly what we want. We want that straight line down the left to be the critical part of your NS homepage experience. If this is what you're doing, then I actually feel its working.
The sponsored content will only catch your eye when there is something really interesting to you that pops up there. So in an ideal world I'd love your last diagram which 95% of the time is a straight view line down the left. Then there would be 5% of the time where you do a quick zig to the right to check something cool posted there. The content on the right will flow a lot slower than the stuff on the left, which in initial testing is the reason we were trying to make it scroll slower than the rest of the content. Haven't yet been able to make that work smoothly on all browsers.
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Wait, your are aiming for that? Not to come off rude but thats stupid. These 'Sponsored' stories can have good stuff in them, but I am almost completely ignoring them 99% of the time now because I view them as advertisements. Since these are sponsored stories, I assume someone is paying for them to be put in the side bar. Wouldn't you want to drive clicks to them as much as possible? When the stories just blend in line with everything else and are not labeled as sponsored I give them much more consideration. I will read the text associated with it because it would be inline with all the other stories, and ideally be labeled as NEWS, VIDEO, ect... I realize keeping them in the sidebar keeps them on the page longer, but would it not be better to disguise them as normal stories and put in some code on the back end to try to keep them in endless scroll, but spread out?
The old icons for "video" and "picture" looked better than text, and I liked how they were overlayed on the content so you could judge from the thumbnail what it was. The "discussion" tag might not even be necessary since the snapshot view itself is distinct from the other types of content (no image on the left)
Personally I dont care about seeing the score number or bar, but its not distracting.
Might be nice to say "By username in Ski Gabber" or wherever the thread was posted.
The comment count for threads isn't working for me, says "undefined comments"
The new page is awesome for bigger screens such like pc or ipad, for smartphones ist way to unclear! I would suppose that you either keep the old design for smartphones or finally create a ns app! :)
NH_OPERATORWait, your are aiming for that? Not to come off rude but thats stupid. These 'Sponsored' stories can have good stuff in them, but I am almost completely ignoring them 99% of the time now because I view them as advertisements. Since these are sponsored stories, I assume someone is paying for them to be put in the side bar. Wouldn't you want to drive clicks to them as much as possible? When the stories just blend in line with everything else and are not labeled as sponsored I give them much more consideration. I will read the text associated with it because it would be inline with all the other stories, and ideally be labeled as NEWS, VIDEO, ect... I realize keeping them in the sidebar keeps them on the page longer, but would it not be better to disguise them as normal stories and put in some code on the back end to try to keep them in endless scroll, but spread out?
If you're going to go to calling me stupid, then I'm going to call you ignorant for thinking you know how website interface design works. We can name call all day long, though I'd prefer you just walk away from this so I can have intelligent balanced debate about this with others.
We're trying out the idea of keeping the main content feed clean and having the ads get their own display. More of a separation of content vs. advertising, which is the way philisophically it *should* be. We may play around with the idea of having ads that get rated really high pop up in the feed, as that would show interest.
I'd like the ads to be ads though, so people can get much heavier in their promotional messages without offending the content feed.
extravertI like it more so far. Some thoughts:
The old icons for "video" and "picture" looked better than text, and I liked how they were overlayed on the content so you could judge from the thumbnail what it was. The "discussion" tag might not even be necessary since the snapshot view itself is distinct from the other types of content (no image on the left)
Personally I dont care about seeing the score number or bar, but its not distracting.
Might be nice to say "By username in Ski Gabber" or wherever the thread was posted.
The comment count for threads isn't working for me, says "undefined comments"
Hmmmm.... we debated the little icons for a bit. Though I do agree they looked much better, my eye really couldn't quickly separate what was what. Heard the same thing from a few people, and have been suspicious of the data showing me the same.
I'd like to stick with the text for now, but we can certainly look at moving it. Its critical that we have one smooth eye motion through the scrolling process.
There are a few bugs, thanks for pointing this one out. We'll make another pass at bugs and should catch that before we go any further.
Clayton_WilliThe new page is awesome for bigger screens such like pc or ipad, for smartphones ist way to unclear! I would suppose that you either keep the old design for smartphones or finally create a ns app! :)
What don't you like about the new smartphone experience? We actually REALLY tried to keep it exactly the same.