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skiforce1Resiting arrest doesnt allow a cop to do an illegal chokehold on you that leads to your death.
"Police union officials and Pantaleo's lawyer have argued that the officer used a takedown move taught by the police department, not a chokehold, because he was resisting arrest and that Garner's poor health was the main reason he died."
cooperate with police and you won't find yourself in that situation. there's no way in hell the cop just walked up behind some random dude and choked him out. don't be a dipshit and stuff like this won't happen to you.
cornholio"Police union officials and Pantaleo's lawyer have argued that the officer used a takedown move taught by the police department, not a chokehold, because he was resisting arrest and that Garner's poor health was the main reason he died."
cooperate with police and you won't find yourself in that situation. there's no way in hell the cop just walked up behind some random dude and choked him out. don't be a dipshit and stuff like this won't happen to you.
There are different ways to take down an uncooperative suspect. That guy didn't deserve to lose his life for resisting arrest because he was selling cigarettes unlawfully.
cornholiocooperate with police and you won't find yourself in that situation. there's no way in hell the cop just walked up behind some random dude and choked him out. don't be a dipshit and stuff like this won't happen to you.
You're the dipshit. These fucking jackboot thugs circled around this guy like a pack of wolves to their prey. Then, one of the cunts goes for the neck and starts choking him TO DEATH. There is a difference between attacking a police officer and resisting. This criminal with a badge got away with MURDER.
cornholio"Police union officials and Pantaleo's lawyer have argued that the officer used a takedown move taught by the police department, not a chokehold, because he was resisting arrest and that Garner's poor health was the main reason he died."
cooperate with police and you won't find yourself in that situation. there's no way in hell the cop just walked up behind some random dude and choked him out. don't be a dipshit and stuff like this won't happen to you.
So you like the idea of a police state were a cop can kill a guy on video and get away with it? I'm guessing you havent left your home town much, or if you have it has been to other places in your upper middle class lifestyle.
Cops fuck with people, and I have been fucked by them a lot. one example, a cop trying to break in to my apt because there was a party going on in a few doors down and claiming he spotted "something legal" in my apt. I stood my ground in my door and made him get a search warrant. He called 3 other cops for back up and I was being strong armed to let them illegally search my place. Long story short 5 hours later they got the warrant and didnt find any thing. They wasted my time and the tax payers money.
Cops think they have power to take the law in their hands and bend it to the way that benefits them. When they enter court they strong arm witnesses to say what they want them to say. It is a problem with this country and it is coming to spot light in a big way because it is happening more and more and people like me and million others are sick of them getting away with breaking the law. They are here to protect the public and make people feel safe. How many of you have been pulled over and felt scared when you see the cop walking up? Not knowing what they are going to try to get you for.
Moon_ShoesThere are different ways to take down an uncooperative suspect. That guy didn't deserve to lose his life for resisting arrest because he was selling cigarettes unlawfully.
JeremyClarksonYou're the dipshit. These fucking jackboot thugs circled around this guy like a pack of wolves to their prey. Then, one of the cunts goes for the neck and starts choking him TO DEATH. There is a difference between attacking a police officer and resisting. This criminal with a badge got away with MURDER.
i'm not saying he deserved to lose his life, but i do stand by my point that he would be alive today if he had cooperated
cornholiowhat are you doing where the cops are at you everyday?
For me when that was happening, going back and forth to work and driving the speed limit with a car that was legal. The fact that I was driving an older car past midnight made me a target. After the third DUI check you start wanting to just keep driving when you see the lights turn on behind you.
cornholioi'm not saying he deserved to lose his life, but i do stand by my point that he would be alive today if he had cooperated
you might as well not even try. everyone on here hates the cops because they got in trouble for possessing weed and it should totally be legal man so why would the cop even bother.
skiforce1For me when that was happening, going back and forth to work and driving the speed limit with a car that was legal. The fact that I was driving an older car past midnight made me a target. After the third DUI check you start wanting to just keep driving when you see the lights turn on behind you.
I feel like you probably aren't telling us something.
I've been pulled over only a few times in my 14 years of driving and each time was because I did something wrong. I don't know anyone who has randomly been pulled over for DUI checks, let alone multiple times.
This incident is so much more egregious than Michael Brown and yet I've heard almost nothing about it.
Guy was selling cigs. And now he's dead. Brooke Baldwin on CNN says "well, he didn't comply with police 100%." Fuck you, Brooke Baldwin! Arrest him for resisting then, he doesn't deserve to be choked to death. You can hear him on the tape begging. Saying that he can't breathe.
saskskierI feel like you probably aren't telling us something.
I've been pulled over only a few times in my 14 years of driving and each time was because I did something wrong. I don't know anyone who has randomly been pulled over for DUI checks, let alone multiple times.
Not keeping any from you guys, I ended up selling the old car because of the job and got a newer car and never had a problem after.
But back to the main point, how can a cop get away with killing a guy that was on video? Does this mean when cops are made to wear cams it wont change a thing? Cops can keep on doing illegal things and still get away with it even when it is caught on video?
skiforce1For me when that was happening, going back and forth to work and driving the speed limit with a car that was legal. The fact that I was driving an older car past midnight made me a target. After the third DUI check you start wanting to just keep driving when you see the lights turn on behind you.
ok we'll assume that's what actually happened, and that does suck and is shitty if you were truly doing nothing wrong.
but each time you did pull over and cooperate, right? and you're living to tell the tale?
what happens when you don't cooperate? you floor the gas pedal to try and lose the cop- he chases down your POS car, spins you off the road and wraps you around a tree, killing you. in that instance he should have found a better way to pull you over?
i'll say again that it's terrible the dude had to die, but he was the one with the choice of whether or not to cooperate 100% from the beginning.
that's the only point i'm trying to make, and with that i'm done with this thread
if you watch the video. the guy that actually put him in the choke hold didn't even say why he did it. He was like "It had nothing to do with the fight, it has to do with something else". So if it was to deal with selling loose untaxed cigarettes like it appears that's what they decided to go with here. The man Denied it several times in plain English. From my experience Hearsay doesn't hold up in a court of law.
Well at least from my experience of reporting someone to the police that had stolen an iPod classic($400+ value). Told him I left it someones house and then after the person was kicked out of the party the iPod was missing and I had other friends say they had seen him with it(he was a poor kid with no job and his parents didn't love him enough to spend more than $400+ on him). Over a year later guy admits to stealing it I punch him in the face knock him out and cops arrest me after him and his friends were threatening to kick my ass after I asked him to just give it back(I had messaged him after I first found out on facebook to give it back and he was being a huge douche bag about everything so I told him you either give it back or I take it back). So I had to spend a night in the drunk tank and the guy still got away with stealing my iPod and I punched him in the face when I didn't know cops were right outside of the bar where I punched him in the face. Got a ticket for being drunk in a public place(it was passed 2am) and participation in a fight(it was a bylaw they got me with so I'm kind of glad it wasn't like assault or something, but still bullshit none the less seeing as I was the original victim to begin with). Got $100 off one ticket, but one took over 2 years for it to reach court and by that time I had moved away and no longer lived in the area. Had to pay it off fully before I could get car insurance which pissed me off.
TL;DR:
In short of my story I got fucked over a few times because hearsay isn't a viable source for cops apparently, yet someone gets killed over a bullshit charge which was reported as hearsay. Law system is fucked up and needs some fixing. Mind you my incident was in BC where this is in NYC. I don't think that the cops should have wasted tax payers money on this bullshit.
also on a side note: If the guy was selling loose cigarettes and the law considers them as "untaxed". Isn't that already a fallacy seeing as he had to buy them, and when you buy stuff you pay taxes on it.
DERRRRR I'm a cop and I don't know how to Law...
Watched a news report where the news reporter was pretty much like a lot of people sell loose cigarettes. sooo...?
feel I should clarify that means I would assume it was reported as hearsay(as in someone just claiming they saw someone selling loose cigarettes). Who the fuck does that anyway!?
it's also illegal to film the police murdering someone now, as the guy who filmed it so the whole world could see what these cowards did is now facing an indictment, what a joke.
cornholio"Police union officials and Pantaleo's lawyer have argued that the officer used a takedown move taught by the police department, not a chokehold, because he was resisting arrest and that Garner's poor health was the main reason he died."
cooperate with police and you won't find yourself in that situation. there's no way in hell the cop just walked up behind some random dude and choked him out. don't be a dipshit and stuff like this won't happen to you.
k-robit's also illegal to film the police murdering someone now, as the guy who filmed it so the whole world could see what these cowards did is now facing an indictment, what a joke.
It's fucking NYC. I'm pretty sure existing is an arrestable offense there. I don't see what people think is so great about a town where you can go to jail for minor shit like taking a nap on a train and the NYPD used to have a stated policy of frisking random black folks without reasonable suspicion before the courts forced them to stop.
When you're a 400lb asthmatic, you shouldn't be resisting arrest. You think he died because someone put an arm around his neck? No. It wasn't an effort to choke him, it was an effort to subdue him and bring him down. The officer knows he's being filmed, you really think he'd be stupid enough to choke the guy out? No, of course not. He died because he was, as stated above, a 400lb asthmatic.
And if you believe the officers, or any officer for that matter, would get up because the guy said he couldn't breathe, then you're dead wrong. If a police officer did get off someone who was complaining, they'd be putting their own life at risk. I've seen videos of people complaining about how they were in pain or can't breathe during a forced arrest, and they're always full of shit. I'm not saying that this guy is, but maybe he shouldn't have resisted police. You can't win in that situation, especially when you're literally surrounded. The force they used was necessary and even perhaps required.
skiforce1For me when that was happening, going back and forth to work and driving the speed limit with a car that was legal. The fact that I was driving an older car past midnight made me a target. After the third DUI check you start wanting to just keep driving when you see the lights turn on behind you.
that's just stupid... I was put on a police watch list because my car was too low, got pulled over every time I drove, not once did I feel the urge to keep driving. once cops realize I'm not a skid and just drive a stupid low car, they just hit me with an improper tires ticket and move along. cops are people, show them respect and you'll get it back
What in the FUCK?! FUCKING WATCH THAT VIDEO!! That guy had his and up and was surrounded but FUCKING 5 COPS.. What the FUCK was he going to do?! It looked like he was at least 250 so running is far from the question! On top of that, when he was on the ground the FUCKING COP was STILL choking his ass! Talk about brutality!
Disclaimer, I haven't watched any videos on this or read into it, but isn't a choke hold a fairly common way to subdue someone non- lethally.it clearly didn't work that way this time, but it has a fairly proven tract record of just knocking the person out
This case is complete police brutality and bullshit. No one deserves to die for selling cigarettes. He did not resist or attack the officers unlike the case in MO. this should not be an excuse for blacks vs. cops/whites, this is the battle of police abusing their force in this country and getting away with it.
I say fuck the police for many reasons. Im not some kid who got in trouble for possession or anything, nor have I gotten a ticket. The reason I say fuck the police is the way they go about their business. They are there to protect and serve not harass and bully.
An example in my experience is that I was "speeding" and got pulled over for it. Mind you I was correct about the signage and completely got off because I knew what I was talking about. But the issue seemed to be I was a young teenager. I was profiled for driving a nice car at a young age. Then during the stop I was nothing but nice and cooperative but was met with interrogations of "being on drugs or up to something illegal" as the officer worded it. He called 3 cars to come and attempted to force his way into my car. I was not put in restraints at this time, (I was outside the car) so as the officer went to illegally search my car I closed the door as he reached for it and demanded a warrant.
Why was I held and questioned for an hour when I had explained my story and that I wasn't speeding in the first 5 minutes of the stop? Because the officer abused his power and imagined charges he thought we're going to happen.
It seems to be a reacurring theme in this country. certain Cops attempting to overstep their boundaries of what they are there for. Sure they have the right to detain this man and charge him. However they take it to an extreme and think they will find more than what is present.
This his does not include the the brown shootingand decision. this is about the departments and officers who are abusing a system and getting away it scotch free.
cool_nameDisclaimer, I haven't watched any videos on this or read into it, but isn't a choke hold a fairly common way to subdue someone non- lethally.it clearly didn't work that way this time, but it has a fairly proven tract record of just knocking the person out
and this comes back to part of the problem, which is that these officers either aren't trained correctly, or are ignoring their training. i personally have been tazered twice in the chest while surrendering and crying and freezing outside in minus 30 degrees celsius, and then while i was unconscious my hand was stomped on and broken. however, that was canadian cops, and instead of just murdering me like an american cop would have have, they broke protocol in two ways, one being that they aimed for my torso, the other being that they hit me twice at the same time. i got the bill for the ambulance, which i wouldn't have needed if it wasn't for them, but the thing is, they can only send the bill to the police if i'd actually been charged with something, according to the stupid fucking law, so because i hadn't done anything wrong, i'm supposed to foot the bill. my mom wrote to our mayor and he got it paid off (i love my mom). anyway the point is that i could tell you 4 other times where cops have broken protocol and hospitalized me but canadian cops just aren't dumb or mean or racist enough to actually shoot me in the fucking head so thank glob my parents stayed here. i imagine that if i did live in the states i'd be too busy protesting to waste my time on newschoolers.
i was expecting the cop to be holding him till he passed out the way everyone is all up in arms. he had him in the chokehold for 15 seconds and the guy never said "i cant breathe" until after the chokehold was released...
.Hugo.i was expecting the cop to be holding him till he passed out the way everyone is all up in arms. he had him in the chokehold for 15 seconds and the guy never said "i cant breathe" until after the chokehold was released...
It could be because when you are REALLY choking, you actually cannot talk. There is no air coming out of your lungs for you to make words with. Now imagine being in that situation... Just FUCKED.
MiomoWhen you're a 400lb asthmatic, you shouldn't be resisting arrest. You think he died because someone put an arm around his neck? No. It wasn't an effort to choke him, it was an effort to subdue him and bring him down. The officer knows he's being filmed, you really think he'd be stupid enough to choke the guy out? No, of course not. He died because he was, as stated above, a 400lb asthmatic.
And if you believe the officers, or any officer for that matter, would get up because the guy said he couldn't breathe, then you're dead wrong. If a police officer did get off someone who was complaining, they'd be putting their own life at risk. I've seen videos of people complaining about how they were in pain or can't breathe during a forced arrest, and they're always full of shit. I'm not saying that this guy is, but maybe he shouldn't have resisted police. You can't win in that situation, especially when you're literally surrounded. The force they used was necessary and even perhaps required.
I haven't read too much into it, but the story is the cops didn't know they were even being filmed. The dude has his hands up. He was getting harassed for selling cigarettes. He was making upto a 100 a day tax free. And that results in getting harassed by cops and getting choked out. For earning money tax free!?!?! I know he had priors, but petty crimes should not result in death. I know he was unhealthy, but getting choked out for selling lucys... really? You know much cigs cost in NYC right? Fucking crazy.
.Hugo.i was expecting the cop to be holding him till he passed out the way everyone is all up in arms. he had him in the chokehold for 15 seconds and the guy never said "i cant breathe" until after the chokehold was released...
I also like how the video cuts out in the middle of it. What happened in the part that was cut out? I'm sure it wasn't something that would've helped Mr. Eric Garners case.
.Hugo.i was expecting the cop to be holding him till he passed out the way everyone is all up in arms. he had him in the chokehold for 15 seconds and the guy never said "i cant breathe" until after the chokehold was released...
His hands were up in the air while he is getting choked. That is why people are up in arms. Not to mention he was just selling lucys. Cigs are expensive as fuck in NY.
Steezy.jpegIt could be because when you are REALLY choking, you actually cannot talk. There is no air coming out of your lungs for you to make words with. Now imagine being in that situation... Just FUCKED.
cornholio"Police union officials and Pantaleo's lawyer have argued that the officer used a takedown move taught by the police department, not a chokehold, because he was resisting arrest and that Garner's poor health was the main reason he died."
Funny they say this because the NYC coroner clearly stated he died from a combination of pressure around his neck and pressure on his chest...
.Hugo.i was expecting the cop to be holding him till he passed out the way everyone is all up in arms. he had him in the chokehold for 15 seconds and the guy never said "i cant breathe" until after the chokehold was released...
the fact that the guy is 400 pounds and asthmatic probably means that even after the officer let go of his neck he still was having a really hard time breathing. even after the chokehold was released you can see the cops are all on top of him, pushing his face onto the ground and shit.
some people can try to water down what went on here, and obviously the cop wasnt intentionally trying to "murder" him. i would say this is a case of excessive force, mixed with a huge dude with breathing problems. the death was a completely avoidable tragedy, no matter what.
jon stewart had an interesting piece on this whole thing. he was overwhelmingly not happy
louie.miragsHis hands were up in the air while he is getting choked. That is why people are up in arms. Not to mention he was just selling lucys. Cigs are expensive as fuck in NY.
Yup. I agree it is fucked
His hands are up because he keeps pulling them away when the officers are trying to handcuff him. If a 350 lb man was resisting arrest and previously said "this ends today", would you let go of him before you get him under control and on the ground?
And cigarettes are expensive everywhere. Its illegal to sell loose cigs, whether you think its a big deal or not.
Bottom line, if he doesnt resist he is living today. Do i think he deserved to die? No, but he could have prevented it just as easy or easier than the cops could have
Volkl_OneThis incident is so much more egregious than Michael Brown and yet I've heard almost nothing about it.
Guy was selling cigs. And now he's dead. Brooke Baldwin on CNN says "well, he didn't comply with police 100%." Fuck you, Brooke Baldwin! Arrest him for resisting then, he doesn't deserve to be choked to death. You can hear him on the tape begging. Saying that he can't breathe.
This is so insane.
Agreed, it's not worthy of death, maybe a taser or a takedown to arrest, but not a chokehold. If the guy had cooperated he would have survived, a real shame. Rip
.Hugo.His hands are up because he keeps pulling them away when the officers are trying to handcuff him. If a 350 lb man was resisting arrest and previously said "this ends today", would you let go of him before you get him under control and on the ground?
And cigarettes are expensive everywhere. Its illegal to sell loose cigs, whether you think its a big deal or not.
Bottom line, if he doesnt resist he is living today. Do i think he deserved to die? No, but he could have prevented it just as easy or easier than the cops could have
I just brought up the petty crime because who doesn't break petty crimes? Cops love to speed in their personal vehicles. I know a cop who drives plastered! I mean so fucking wasted. Some cops play illegal poker games... We all do something illegal.. And he is getting harassed by cops for selling lucys. Where there are tons and tons of people selling lucys in NYC. I know there was a complaint about him but the way the cops act is crazy. They have this mentality that it is them verses the civilians. My opinion is based on having cop friends and working as a dispatcher at a police station while in college. The cops would joke around about their new tasers and say they couldn't wait to tase someone. I have buddies who at once were stoners and now bust stoners. I am not afraid to admit that because if I know a few multiply that by thousands of cops across the US. The system is just ass backwards....
Off topic - people should be able to do what they want if it doesn't interfere with anybody else's well being. That will solve a lot of problems..
louie.miragsI just brought up the petty crime because who doesn't break petty crimes? Cops love to speed in their personal vehicles. I know a cop who drives plastered! I mean so fucking wasted. Some cops play illegal poker games... We all do something illegal.. And he is getting harassed by cops for selling lucys. Where there are tons and tons of people selling lucys in NYC. I know there was a complaint about him but the way the cops act is crazy. They have this mentality that it is them verses the civilians. My opinion is based on having cop friends and working as a dispatcher at a police station while in college. The cops would joke around about their new tasers and say they couldn't wait to tase someone. I have buddies who at once were stoners and now bust stoners. I am not afraid to admit that because if I know a few multiply that by thousands of cops across the US. The system is just ass backwards....
Off topic - people should be able to do what they want if it doesn't interfere with anybody else's well being. That will solve a lot of problems..
Joking around about wanting to taze someone is completely different than actually wanting to.
I'm a social worker and we joke around about all kinds of abuse and apprehending kids, but that doesn't mean anyone actually wants to do it or be involved in those situations.
When you work a high risk, high stress job dealing with the worst side of humanity, humour comes out in different ways and it often ends up being pretty dark. It's just a coping mechanism.
.Hugo.Bottom line, if he doesnt resist he is living today. Do i think he deserved to die? No, but he could have prevented it just as easy or easier than the cops could have
man, its not like resisting arrest is uncommon, or a life-threatening action. cops are very very used to arresting people against their will and keeping them alive throughout the whole process.
saskskierJoking around about wanting to taze someone is completely different than actually wanting to.
I'm a social worker and we joke around about all kinds of abuse and apprehending kids, but that doesn't mean anyone actually wants to do it or be involved in those situations.
When you work a high risk, high stress job dealing with the worst side of humanity, humour comes out in different ways and it often ends up being pretty dark. It's just a coping mechanism.
Yeah, sometimes it could be a coping mechanism. However, this dude is a young cop and he was pretty serious. He was already in trouble for something he did arresting somebody. As far as I know it was just a warning and told not to do it again. He had a hot head.
Personally I'd like to taze half the people in this thread.
Here is what apparently happened.
1. Dude was committing a minor criminal offence.
2. Police attempted to detain dude.
3. Dude resisted arrest.
4. Police officer subdued dude, using the method he was trained to use in these situations.
5. By some fluke (i.e. he had a health problem), this resulted in dude dying.
SCENE.
I'm not sure what you expect an officer to do other than exactly what he was trained to do in that situation. Unfortunately, sometimes even when you follow the correct procedures to the letter and do everything by the book, bad results occur. That's life.
yuckman, its not like resisting arrest is uncommon, or a life-threatening action. cops are very very used to arresting people against their will and keeping them alive throughout the whole process.
And this dude would have lived, but he happened to be overweight and was asthmatic. 99% of people would not have died if put in the same situation