That could help a bit, one thing that I see that is different is that a dummy cant 'swim and kick' to help get to the surface. Also, a dummy is going to be a stand still object when its getting hit by the avy, whereas a skier/rider is normally in motion, riding away from the slide. I would like to see a BCA/ABS/Mammut/Snowpulse/Mystery Ranch/All other bags side by side competition. All dummies are waiting with deployed bags, patrol sends a big slide and we get to see if any stay at the surface.

japanadadummy cant 'swim and kick' to help get to the surface.

agreed pretty much.

at least both dummies would be in a similar disposition with not being able to swim and kick, so comparing the two groups would highlight the effect of purely the ABS relative to nothing. But yeah, thats another legit comparison in itself... does swim and kick alone work similarly as well as ABS pack (and does the combination lead to an even better outcome).

not to be all conspiracy-ish, but i wonder if the companies avoid doing these studies in fear of negative results hurting their business

Couldnt they just do a study on the survivability but have it done by a third party. Take 1000 slides that caught people. Figure out the number who had ABS bags and the number that didnt. Then take that and find the probability of surviving an avalanche with the use of ABS or not.

don't the packs also help decrease the initial impact, as well as increase the chance of getting an air pocket in a burial?

chickendon't the packs also help decrease the initial impact, as well as increase the chance of getting an air pocket in a burial?

What do you mean? the point is for you not to get buried in the first place...

This is the only more "academic" research I know of pertaining to airbags.

It's a good read and points out what should be obvious: technology isn't just going to magically save you in the mountains.

http://utahavalanchecenter.org/blog-avalanche-airbag-effectiveness-something-closer-truth

GnarcotiksCouldnt they just do a study on the survivability but have it done by a third party. Take 1000 slides that caught people. Figure out the number who had ABS bags and the number that didnt. Then take that and find the probability of surviving an avalanche with the use of ABS or not.

Yeah your totally right. Metadata studies are a really good place to start. They are cheap. Provided you get some really good data it can go a long way. But the problem is that metadata studies is that, by their very nature, struggle with controlling for/ eliminating confounding variables.

For example... more serious and talented skiers may be more likely to use air bags AND encounter more dangerous train then the non-air bag counter-parts. So Better skiers (that wear air bags more often) may have more experience in getting away safe in avey situations. As you might be able to see, theres lots of factors that can skew stats when looking at previous numbers.

Also, we cannot be sure if people were using air bags appropriately. even though that is relevant, numbers representing user outcomes may speak more to proper use rather than the effectiveness of a properly deployed air bag itself

Dr.DealgoodThis is the only more "academic" research I know of pertaining to airbags.

It's a good read and points out what should be obvious: technology isn't just going to magically save you in the mountains.

Word, ill read this guy tomorrow when i have time. Looks pretty interesting

HughesWhat do you mean? the point is for you not to get buried in the first place...

I realize this. but say that you get hit by an avalanch, would a big airbag around your back and head not help lessen the impact?

also if you do end up under the snow, don't you think that an airbag might increase the chance you get an air pocket to give you more time?

I am very curious as I plan on buying an airbag next season after being burried in an avalanche this past season. Some of the things I noticed is it was like sliding down in concrete, it was very difficult to move while going down, I think getting my avalung in my mouth while sliding would have been impossible, maybe once stopped It might even be tough to pull a handle. I was only burried a foot or two and was able to pull myself out but I would imagine it would have been much more difficult with an airbag.

anybody have any experience with ABS packs, Are they heavy and bulky? what is the best bang for your buck? Anybody have the north face vest with the ABS system??