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Disabling Up/Down voting in threads

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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22671 - Karma: 75,830
We just disabled the ability to up/down vote specific posts within a thread.

For now, its an experiment - but if people like it we'll leave it that way.

Up/Down voting in threads was created to give us the data necessary to rank/sort/filter posts based on quality. These views were never finished, and the culture around voting became a signal of whether you agree with the post or not vs. how good it was. That was never the intended purpose... if you want to agree with someone, post up and state your opinion.


The plans for different thread sorting options and filtering were brought up with the community in various discussions and every time they were met with bitter opposition.

Add those two items together and we just made the call to disable them to see what happens.

**This thread was edited on Aug 4th 2016 at 12:37:43pm
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Jul 14 2016 12:35PM
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~Gotama~
Posts: 821 - Karma: 3,160
I know some of you are saying that removing the vote counter will cause more people to comment their opinion, which will serve the same purpose as the vote counter while increasing forum activity. I beg to to differ. With the vote counter, you could see who "won" a thread by checking the scores on everyone's posts in about 20 seconds. Without it, if I want to know which post everyone thought was the best, do I really have to go through and count how many times somebody said "this" for every post in a thread? That is dull, boring, and just an inefficient system.

Furthermore, I disagree with the claim that this will increase the forum activity. What this change might do is increase the number of people who are posting useless comments (This, same, haha), which isn't really growth, its just people filling up a thread with non-statements. It will also remove a very basic reward for making a good post. Think of how some people obsess over creating perfect posts on Instagram or Reddit because they want as many likes as they can get. Modern social media do so well partly because they provide posters with a tangible metric for the quality of their posts. Newschoolers just removed the tangible metric because "that's how it was before."

Which brings me to my final point. Upvotes are not the reason why Newschoolers doesn't get the same traffic it did in 2008. There are a hundred reasons why forums get less activity than they used to, and they've all been discussed on here a hundred times, and it mostly boils down to people expecting the efficiency of other social media and being disappointed by how much time it takes to absorb quality content from a forum. Expecting everyone to post their reaction (this, same, haha) will only create more clutter and spread the quality posts apart. The change takes Newschoolers back to a time when forums were the only social media people knew how to use, which was a great era, but further alienates the majority of people who have moved on to more modern systems of engagement.

I appreciate the experiment and I am willing to have my opinion changed by good data at the end of the testing period, but please, do not let this be an experiment that runs just long enough for everyone to forget about the results. I honestly feel this is a backwards move and will not encourage people to post quality content.
Jul 19 2016 7:37AM
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Sklar
Posts: 8863 - Karma: 31,577
~Gotama~I know some of you are saying that removing the vote counter will cause more people to comment their opinion, which will serve the same purpose as the vote counter while increasing forum activity. I beg to to differ. With the vote counter, you could see who "won" a thread by checking the scores on everyone's posts in about 20 seconds. Without it, if I want to know which post everyone thought was the best, do I really have to go through and count how many times somebody said "this" for every post in a thread? That is dull, boring, and just an inefficient system.

Furthermore, I disagree with the claim that this will increase the forum activity. What this change might do is increase the number of people who are posting useless comments (This, same, haha), which isn't really growth, its just people filling up a thread with non-statements. It will also remove a very basic reward for making a good post. Think of how some people obsess over creating perfect posts on Instagram or Reddit because they want as many likes as they can get. Modern social media do so well partly because they provide posters with a tangible metric for the quality of their posts. Newschoolers just removed the tangible metric because "that's how it was before."

Which brings me to my final point. Upvotes are not the reason why Newschoolers doesn't get the same traffic it did in 2008. There are a hundred reasons why forums get less activity than they used to, and they've all been discussed on here a hundred times, and it mostly boils down to people expecting the efficiency of other social media and being disappointed by how much time it takes to absorb quality content from a forum. Expecting everyone to post their reaction (this, same, haha) will only create more clutter and spread the quality posts apart. The change takes Newschoolers back to a time when forums were the only social media people knew how to use, which was a great era, but further alienates the majority of people who have moved on to more modern systems of engagement.

I appreciate the experiment and I am willing to have my opinion changed by good data at the end of the testing period, but please, do not let this be an experiment that runs just long enough for everyone to forget about the results. I honestly feel this is a backwards move and will not encourage people to post quality content.



You can up with 3 pretty irrelevant/off base reasons here.

It's not about "winning" a thread, it's about discussion. The attitude of "winners" and "losers" based on votes is a big reason, imo, why votes were bad and led (along with a bunch of other factors) to decreased discussion. Clicking on a thread and scrolling through to see the biggest ups/downs just leads to reinforcing prevailing opinions, it moderates discussions rather than forcing members to interact with opinions.

Will this lead to less people checking the forums? Maybe. Will it lead to more discussion? Maybe. My hope is that even if it turns some folks away, it will help to bring back some of the discussion we used to have, or in other words, those losses won't matter because those people didn't contribute anyways.

This kind of brings me to your later arguments where you're just missing the mark. It's not about changing because "that's how it was before," or to hide data, it's about changing to try and create a more healthy dialogue and interaction between members. I disagree with your diagnosis of traffic decline, pinning it on efficiency is missing the larger point of the social landscape. The self-moderated atmosphere of other social programs is something Doug has discussed in several threads, and as I said early I think forcing people to interact with opinions rather than hiding behind votes, or selectively following as on other platforms, will help.



I haven't made a long post like this in a while, so maybe it's working?
Jul 20 2016 12:43PM
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broto
Posts: 9039 - Karma: 25,659
SklarYou can up with 3 pretty irrelevant/off base reasons here.

It's not about "winning" a thread, it's about discussion. The attitude of "winners" and "losers" based on votes is a big reason, imo, why votes were bad and led (along with a bunch of other factors) to decreased discussion. Clicking on a thread and scrolling through to see the biggest ups/downs just leads to reinforcing prevailing opinions, it moderates discussions rather than forcing members to interact with opinions.

Will this lead to less people checking the forums? Maybe. Will it lead to more discussion? Maybe. My hope is that even if it turns some folks away, it will help to bring back some of the discussion we used to have, or in other words, those losses won't matter because those people didn't contribute anyways.

This kind of brings me to your later arguments where you're just missing the mark. It's not about changing because "that's how it was before," or to hide data, it's about changing to try and create a more healthy dialogue and interaction between members. I disagree with your diagnosis of traffic decline, pinning it on efficiency is missing the larger point of the social landscape. The self-moderated atmosphere of other social programs is something Doug has discussed in several threads, and as I said early I think forcing people to interact with opinions rather than hiding behind votes, or selectively following as on other platforms, will help.



I haven't made a long post like this in a while, so maybe it's working?


+1

These are the points I have been trying to make. Upvotes shift the incentive of posting from creating discussion to getting as many upvotes as possible. Opinions are not right or wrong. Votes create the illusion that they are.

If you don't come here to "read" or just want to see who "wins" the thread with the most popular opinion, youre missing the point and maybe an internet forum isn't for you. When upvotes were first introduced, I felt that a lot of people starting checking back into threads only to see how many upvotes their posts had gotten. I was guilty of it and in my experience i became less engaged in threads because of it. It became another way to get self gratification akin to posting on social media rather than a place to discuss
Jul 20 2016 1:10PM
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~Gotama~
Posts: 821 - Karma: 3,160
SklarThis kind of brings me to your later arguments where you're just missing the mark. It's not about changing because "that's how it was before," or to hide data, it's about changing to try and create a more healthy dialogue and interaction between members. I disagree with your diagnosis of traffic decline, pinning it on efficiency is missing the larger point of the social landscape. The self-moderated atmosphere of other social programs is something Doug has discussed in several threads, and as I said early I think forcing people to interact with opinions rather than hiding behind votes, or selectively following as on other platforms, will help.



I haven't made a long post like this in a while, so maybe it's working?


Obviously, there's no way to know who's right here so I won't try and tell you that you're wrong. I think there are really firm arguments both ways, but I will say this: I do not get the feeling that this will force people to interact, as you said. I see it as removing a dimension of the dialogue and flattening the discussions in the threads. I think that getting people to voice their opinions more will take something drastically different that serves to the expectations of the average joe-bag on the internet and that reinvigorates people's interest in the forums.

Basically, I don't think the problem is that people are hiding behind votes, I think the problem is that I don't remember the last time I saw more than 100 members online. Gone are the days when the forums were an endlessly scrolling conversation because there were 500 people signed on, and disabling a pretty handy feature is not going to bring that back.

Or maybe it will...
Jul 20 2016 3:43PM
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MikeWeinerONE
Posts: 501 - Karma: 1,215
SlushThis makes NS way less enjoyable.. Like considerably. I can already feel myself shying away from coming online as often as I used to, there's no point in putting effort into posts now. I rarely get replies to things I post, and now with the rating system gone, I feel like everything I do is gonna be another fart in the wind


Why do you care how people rate your posts? Not once have I looked at a post rating. I couldnt give a fuck if people agree or disagree with what I'm saying.

I agree with Bishop, it's super easy to downvote something due to not liking the user by hitting a button. If you don't like something, or like it, explain yourself and your reasons.
Jul 20 2016 3:52PM
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MikeWeinerONE
Posts: 501 - Karma: 1,215
Facebook has a good idea. Like button. You can't dislike. Props for positive posts, and if you don't like then comment. It's discussion and not a rating process. If you care about your ranking/karma etc then you need to get out and do something rad and have fun.
Jul 20 2016 4:00PM
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arnie_grape
Posts: 3432 - Karma: 11,408
MikeWeinerONEFacebook has a good idea. Like button. You can't dislike. Props for positive posts, and if you don't like then comment. It's discussion and not a rating process. If you care about your ranking/karma etc then you need to get out and do something rad and have fun.


this would be better than an up/down system but it still promotes the whole "if I say something funny enough I'll get a bunch of likes" thing. facebook and instagram are riddled with that sort of whoring. idk if I want it here. but on the other hand it seems like everyone on here needs some kind if incentive beyond good conversation to post so I dunno what people want.
Jul 20 2016 4:15PM
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Slush
Posts: 1905 - Karma: 12,901
MikeWeinerONEWhy do you care how people rate your posts? Not once have I looked at a post rating. I couldnt give a fuck if people agree or disagree with what I'm saying.

I agree with Bishop, it's super easy to downvote something due to not liking the user by hitting a button. If you don't like something, or like it, explain yourself and your reasons.


When helping members with advice, learning new tricks, or literally anything, it's nice to have upvotes or down votes to see if the post was a solid post/get some recognition for putting effort into a post. It's not about agreeing or disagreeing, seldom go into those debate threads nor do I care about them, it's about recognition for quality content being produced. People rarely reply to a solid post saying "wow this was informative, thanks!" Or "this helped me a lot!" Or "I appreciate this post". People often criticize posts, but hardly recognize good ones
Jul 20 2016 4:25PM
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arnie_grape
Posts: 3432 - Karma: 11,408
SlushPeople rarely reply to a solid post saying "wow this was informative, thanks!" Or "this helped me a lot!" Or "I appreciate this post".


they did before the voting system was introduced
Jul 20 2016 4:27PM
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MikeWeinerONE
Posts: 501 - Karma: 1,215
SlushWhen helping members with advice, learning new tricks, or literally anything, it's nice to have upvotes or down votes to see if the post was a solid post/get some recognition for putting effort into a post. It's not about agreeing or disagreeing, seldom go into those debate threads nor do I care about them, it's about recognition for quality content being produced. People rarely reply to a solid post saying "wow this was informative, thanks!" Or "this helped me a lot!" Or "I appreciate this post". People often criticize posts, but hardly recognize good ones


Which is why an upvote only system would work to allow you to see posts that are beneficial. People get jealous and downvote to hurt other members posts, when in actuality they may be beneficial. Fuck the haters, and let positivity be what matters. CR style. If you wanna hate, then comment instead of being a non-named pussy that just hit a button.
Jul 20 2016 4:50PM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22671 - Karma: 75,830
SlushWhen helping members with advice, learning new tricks, or literally anything, it's nice to have upvotes or down votes to see if the post was a solid post/get some recognition for putting effort into a post. It's not about agreeing or disagreeing, seldom go into those debate threads nor do I care about them, it's about recognition for quality content being produced. People rarely reply to a solid post saying "wow this was informative, thanks!" Or "this helped me a lot!" Or "I appreciate this post". People often criticize posts, but hardly recognize good ones


That is closer to how the old karma system worked. If you mouse over someone's karma score in the forums, you can boost them up or down depending on how helpful they were.

Something that a lot of you seem to not understand is that these buttons and counts are not just about making people feel good - every site that uses them bases their entire sorting algorithm on it. Its literally the foundation of modern social media. Its the definition of it.

That which is socially liked by who reads it is distributed more than what one editor would decide in the old media.

So these types of things have nothing to do with making you feel good about yourself... they're for re-ordering the content.

That was what always bugged me. We wanted to actually take the voting data and start offering re-ordered threads and the ability to view top rated threads/posts and such. Self moderation - so that the community gets to decide what stays and what goes.

Every time we brought it up though, everyone who participated in the discussion bashed the idea in favor of a more "traditional" forum layout/setup. So that is what we have.

What I have started to agree with though is that if we're not going to start re-ordering the posts... what is the point of voting? Expressing silent dissention does nothing for the conversation. If you're not going to re-order it so that the top conversation threaded with replies is the top voted one and all the shit is hidden.... why not encourage people to simply actually engage in discourse with each other?

Sure, actual non-filtered balanced conversation between humans seems pretty old school these days.... but isn't there also an argument of extreme bias being spread through social media due exactly to the sorting filters and the bubbles it creates?
Jul 20 2016 5:29PM
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-Dan
Posts: 7087 - Karma: 50,494
GORILLAWALLACEwell maybe you're part of the reason the forums are dying then.

it's meant to be a discussion board, not a popularity contest. if you're just posting things to get upvotes you're a shitcunt.

I'm stoked on this change. before the voting people actually had discussions, fights and funny trolls rather than just skimming everything and clicking the arrows or shitposting just to get votes.

example: I just called you a shitcunt and you can't downvote me. what are you going to do about it?

This
Jul 20 2016 6:54PM
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daannnnieel
Posts: 5163 - Karma: 4,293
talking shit to other members of the site is literally what made this site so popular anyways. It started to die when the like button was implemented and now the post count has started to jump again pretty much instantly. I feel like a lot of people don't really see that side of things, but within the week that it was implemented nsg seems like theres way more shit goin on now.


its a good move, fuck it if people don't like it, people are starting to actually post their opinions again.
Jul 21 2016 1:08AM
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Slush
Posts: 1905 - Karma: 12,901
MikeWeinerONEWhich is why an upvote only system would work to allow you to see posts that are beneficial. People get jealous and downvote to hurt other members posts, when in actuality they may be beneficial. Fuck the haters, and let positivity be what matters. CR style. If you wanna hate, then comment instead of being a non-named pussy that just hit a button.


Upvotes only is exactly what I think this site needs. Like you said, no hate, only positivity. Hate has no place on a ski website, it should be about spreading the stoak
Jul 21 2016 12:43PM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22671 - Karma: 75,830
supermagician__talking shit to other members of the site is literally what made this site so popular anyways. It started to die when the like button was implemented and now the post count has started to jump again pretty much instantly. I feel like a lot of people don't really see that side of things, but within the week that it was implemented nsg seems like theres way more shit goin on now.


its a good move, fuck it if people don't like it, people are starting to actually post their opinions again.


I mean I like to hear this kind of feedback. I'm also seeing an uptick in activity after the change was made in my analytics dashboard... though at this point it could be co-incidence. Two weeks of data will show if it is or isn't, but so far so good.

SlushUpvotes only is exactly what I think this site needs. Like you said, no hate, only positivity. Hate has no place on a ski website, it should be about spreading the stoak


We would never do just a post like button. There's no point - honestly that is what people don't get. If you're not going to re-order or highlight posts based off of the voting, you're really taking away from the overall concept to allow people to silently agree.

However - what we might do is revamp the karma system. So if you really like a member's post, you blast them a few karma points on each post. Right now, you can only rate a member up and down with a maximum of 10 - though that acts as a multiplier on their overall score. This idea (which we have thought about in the past) would allow you to give bonus karma every time you like what someone did.
Jul 21 2016 3:34PM
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arnie_grape
Posts: 3432 - Karma: 11,408
I don't get why posting requires some kind of incentive for you guys.

in real life, do you speak only for the purpose of having someone pat you on the head and say "hey nice words bro I agree"?

cause the argument for everyone who wants the voting system back seems to just be that since nobody can give you quantitative feedback on your post there is no point in making it. why?

people think they deserve recognition for everything they do these days. pro tip: you don't.
Jul 21 2016 3:36PM
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a_burger
Posts: 5206 - Karma: 20,187
Mr.BishopHowever - what we might do is revamp the karma system. So if you really like a member's post, you blast them a few karma points on each post. Right now, you can only rate a member up and down with a maximum of 10 - though that acts as a multiplier on their overall score. This idea (which we have thought about in the past) would allow you to give bonus karma every time you like what someone did.


this seems like it could be a good middle ground, replace the upvote with a +karma button, but have the amount of karma given to a post hidden to everyone but the poster.

poster still gets feedback but u gotta post in the thread still for people to know you agree/disagree with them
Jul 21 2016 6:58PM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22671 - Karma: 75,830
a_burgerthis seems like it could be a good middle ground, replace the upvote with a +karma button, but have the amount of karma given to a post hidden to everyone but the poster.

poster still gets feedback but u gotta post in the thread still for people to know you agree/disagree with them


You know, you might be onto something there.

We had similar rough ideas back when we were only working with the karma system. However once we went with upvotes we abandoned simple karma transfers in favor of rankings based on upvotes.

If you got private props for good posting (and Karma continued to lead to stuff) but it wasn't used as public agreement.... that could be pretty cool.
Jul 21 2016 9:46PM
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casual
Posts: 6712 - Karma: 6,746
baby_HCI think I deserve a black username for all the downvotes I've gotten. I've earned those, and want recognition. Ideally, I'd like to see who gave me the most downvotes so I can ask for some feedback, 'cos otherwise solely downvoting is a coward/moron's way to interact.


No, no, no. I'm oldschool. And, I might add that I regularly quote your inane, idiotic, rambling, barely coherent but all the way dumb posts and tell you they suck.

Like I do every dumb ass post.

I find it funny that EVERYONE who is crying for the vote back has joined the site since that system was implemented, and almost assuredly are young kids who don't know a version of social media or forum culture where you actually discuss shit instead of mindlessly clicking little arrows. Up and down votes brought nothing to the table, and only made ns a popularity contest instead of the meritocracy it was always meant to be.
Jul 25 2016 8:23PM
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el_mn_op
Posts: 577 - Karma: 1,175
I liked the up/down votes in threads, but after reading this thread I can see how it could be beneficial to get rid of them. Regardless, anyone who uses the site consistently will probably get used to not having them pretty quick. I'd be curious to see how that affects post count in the long term.
Jul 25 2016 9:01PM
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The.Fish
Posts: 2269 - Karma: 4,985
it used to be funny to see a comeback and it having like 90 upvotes vs an average of like 10. It helped show what was funny for those that don't know the trends.
Jul 25 2016 10:27PM
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Zimmy
Posts: 1258 - Karma: -1,327
Maybe a Slashdot voting where people rank a post between 0 - 5 (default 1) with a word attached to it. (eg funny, insightful.)

I honestly don't give 2 shits, the rankings are only as good as the people who do the ranking, and in large parts I'm seeing large amounts of douchebaggery there -- that's the real problem.
Jul 26 2016 9:37AM
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SKIU4EA
Posts: 2387 - Karma: 2,072
all i'm gonna say is, it's nice to receive credit if you contribute decent/good content. And if your contribution is complete shit, you get credit for said "complete shit".
Jul 26 2016 1:45PM
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treebeard
Posts: 3590 - Karma: 1,065
SKIU4EAall i'm gonna say is, it's nice to receive credit if you contribute decent/good content. And if your contribution is complete shit, you get credit for said "complete shit".


The karma system achieves the exact same thing
Jul 26 2016 1:50PM
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.CJ.
Posts: 1507 - Karma: 3,657
Mr.BishopWe just disabled the ability to up/down vote specific posts within a thread.

For now, its an experiment - but if people like it we'll leave it that way.

Up/Down voting in threads was created to give us the data necessary to rank/sort/filter posts based on quality. These views were never finished, and the culture around voting became a signal of whether you agree with the post or not vs. how good it was. That was never the intended purpose... if you want to agree with someone, post up and state your opinion.


The plans for different thread sorting options and filtering were brought up with the community in various discussions and every time they were met with bitter opposition.

Add those two items together and we just made the call to disable them to see what happens.


I'm not sure if you've thought of this yet, instead of removing comment voting altogether, why not just remove downvoting? Just a thought.

I would be sad to see it go but I'm sure most of NS will get used to it.
Jul 26 2016 2:09PM
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arnie_grape
Posts: 3432 - Karma: 11,408
.CJ.I'm not sure if you've thought of this yet, instead of removing comment voting altogether, why not just remove downvoting?


reading is rewarding
Jul 26 2016 3:38PM
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.CJ.
Posts: 1507 - Karma: 3,657
GORILLAWALLACEreading is rewarding


Yep, I just realized that
Jul 26 2016 6:02PM
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kami
Posts: 537 - Karma: 4,177
MikeWeinerONEhate on them, then comment instead of being a non-named pussy that just hit a button.

v This sounds like a good idea to me and if you want to call someone out for being irrelevant to the discussion or ^
a_burgerthis seems like it could be a good middle ground, replace the upvote with a +karma button, but have the amount of karma given to a post hidden to everyone but the poster.

poster still gets feedback but u gotta post in the thread still for people to know you agree/disagree with them
Jul 26 2016 10:54PM
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S.Ki
Posts: 2171 - Karma: 3,212
please bring back the up/downvotes
Jul 27 2016 11:27AM
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Turd.Ferguson
Posts: 1437 - Karma: 2,713
Just to add my two cents into this,

Yeah, Downboming posts is SUUUPEERRR annoying and makes it easy to turn any argument into a 3rd Grade playground word-fight, but I think it could be handled slightly differently. Maybe instead of totally getting rid of the up down voting system for in thread posts, you let users have the ability to up-vote a comment, kinda like facebook comments. So that way if someone sees a post they like they can still up-vote it and the user can see that people may agree with him/her, and it will still force people with a different opinion to explain themselves rather than just down-voting.
Jul 27 2016 11:32AM
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Julius_Steezer
Posts: 776 - Karma: 4,527
Turd.FergusonJust to add my two cents into this,

Yeah, Downboming posts is SUUUPEERRR annoying and makes it easy to turn any argument into a 3rd Grade playground word-fight, but I think it could be handled slightly differently. Maybe instead of totally getting rid of the up down voting system for in thread posts, you let users have the ability to up-vote a comment, kinda like facebook comments. So that way if someone sees a post they like they can still up-vote it and the user can see that people may agree with him/her, and it will still force people with a different opinion to explain themselves rather than just down-voting.


Yeah we could just have upvotes. Kinda removes negativity and still promotes debate as you can't just downvote stuff you disagree with. There's been a lot of stuff I've seen on NS which made me laugh. I dont wanna comment "haha" or "lol" as thats not worth the time spent writing it out and it turns the thread into a clusterfuck. However, a well earned upvote is always good to throw out to someone
Jul 28 2016 5:52AM
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Shoey-Ski
Posts: 1649 - Karma: 6,190
Julius_SteezerYeah we could just have upvotes. Kinda removes negativity and still promotes debate as you can't just downvote stuff you disagree with. There's been a lot of stuff I've seen on NS which made me laugh. I dont wanna comment "haha" or "lol" as thats not worth the time spent writing it out and it turns the thread into a clusterfuck. However, a well earned upvote is always good to throw out to someone


Lol do you guys not read? Bishop just said in a few posts up it would not be benificial to the site unless the comments were reordered based on the likes,(side note) I never under stood the old karma system, someone could easily make a thread about something dumb, and if people liked it and engaged in conversation on it (and other people lurked and upvoted and down voted if the agreed/disagreed) then the person who created the threads karma would be instantly boosted, even if they don't talk at all, that's just my 2 cents I feel like karma should be based on the members qualities, so maybe have a different "score" for different categories like content posted, replies , buying , selling etc. I also think someone needs to make a noob video for ns so that when you make an acct it explains all of this so everyone knows how it works. For example I am a member on a shoe website (basically Newschoolers for sneakers) and every time someone posts a good link etc, if another person likes it they will "rep" them which boosts their karma, not the thread creators karma, Hopefully that made sense also hopefully I'm not wrong and am sounding really stupid rn haha
Jul 29 2016 2:31AM
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Julius_Steezer
Posts: 776 - Karma: 4,527
Shoey-SkiLol do you guys not read? Bishop just said in a few posts up it would not be benificial to the site unless the comments were reordered based on the likes,(side note) I never under stood the old karma system, someone could easily make a thread about something dumb, and if people liked it and engaged in conversation on it (and other people lurked and upvoted and down voted if the agreed/disagreed) then the person who created the threads karma would be instantly boosted, even if they don't talk at all, that's just my 2 cents I feel like karma should be based on the members qualities, so maybe have a different "score" for different categories like content posted, replies , buying , selling etc. I also think someone needs to make a noob video for ns so that when you make an acct it explains all of this so everyone knows how it works. For example I am a member on a shoe website (basically Newschoolers for sneakers) and every time someone posts a good link etc, if another person likes it they will "rep" them which boosts their karma, not the thread creators karma, Hopefully that made sense also hopefully I'm not wrong and am sounding really stupid rn haha


I hear what you and bishop are saying for sure. Private +k would be better than no vote definitely. But being able to skim read but have the funny comments highlighted by displayed upvotes is something which I'm sure a lot of members do. Plus with stuff like gear talk/media/trick tips etc, upvotes indicate that a particular contribution is a good tip/reliable source. Only having private upvotes would mean that sorting through the shit could be trickier for rookies
Jul 29 2016 6:12AM
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Shoey-Ski
Posts: 1649 - Karma: 6,190
Julius_SteezerI hear what you and bishop are saying for sure. Private +k would be better than no vote definitely. But being able to skim read but have the funny comments highlighted by displayed upvotes is something which I'm sure a lot of members do. Plus with stuff like gear talk/media/trick tips etc, upvotes indicate that a particular contribution is a good tip/reliable source. Only having private upvotes would mean that sorting through the shit could be trickier for rookies


Very true, I also used to enjoy reading the post with the most upvotes haha
Jul 29 2016 11:39AM
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fries
Posts: 2978 - Karma: 7,515
Shoey-SkiFor example I am a member on a shoe website (basically Newschoolers for sneakers) and every time someone posts a good link etc, if another person likes it they will "rep" them which boosts their karma, not the thread creators karma, Hopefully that made sense also hopefully I'm not wrong and am sounding really stupid rn haha


yes. this 100 percent.
Jul 29 2016 11:42PM
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Holte
Posts: 10730 - Karma: 7,744
I said I'd never comment on a change to the forums again, since my initial reaction has pretty much always been wrong, but I still think this is a good idea. It removes passive disagreement and promotes conversation. Conversation is fun.
Jul 30 2016 6:26PM
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yungcigsmoker
Posts: 785 - Karma: 5,922
This decision was lame as fuck yo. K -
Jul 31 2016 1:32PM
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Mingg
Posts: 13936 - Karma: 48,466
Alright so I get why you got rid of them.. because there was no purpose if your intention was to order threads by rating which is totally fine. But I honestly don't see it increasing the quality of posts at all and claiming that it will is super lame.
Jul 31 2016 5:37PM
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Mingg
Posts: 13936 - Karma: 48,466
That being said, please do not ever order threads by rating. ever. That would be the definition of a shit show/posting for likes/votes/whatever you want to call it. It would also fuck up the flow of conversation to the point where so many things could and would be misunderstood. It would be a disaster.
Jul 31 2016 5:41PM
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Yung_Jimmy
Posts: 342 - Karma: 554
Mr.BishopWe just disabled the ability to up/down vote specific posts within a thread.

For now, its an experiment - but if people like it we'll leave it that way.


If you do end up reinstating the upvote/downvote system, would all the upvote and downvote data from the past save as the same amount from before, or would votes on every post automatically reset to 0?

It was cool to see hilarious responses from old threads with hundreds of upvotes, it would kind of suck to see all those gone.
Jul 31 2016 7:18PM
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Shoey-Ski
Posts: 1649 - Karma: 6,190
Yung_JimmyIf you do end up reinstating the upvote/downvote system, would all the upvote and downvote data from the past save as the same amount from before, or would votes on every post automatically reset to 0?

It was cool to see hilarious responses from old threads with hundreds of upvotes, it would kind of suck to see all those gone.


This. But I'm pretty sure they would all come back, bishop said that rn they are just hidden by still there
Jul 31 2016 8:01PM
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arnie_grape
Posts: 3432 - Karma: 11,408
so far I haven't noticed any increase in activity, but no decrease, and there is a lot less shitposting and attention whoring if you ask me.

I like the idea of a rep system. you can up/downvote a post but it will affect karma rather than the post itself. less direct than voting on individual posts, less passive than a one-time karma rating.
Jul 31 2016 10:40PM
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Yung_Jimmy
Posts: 342 - Karma: 554
Shoey-SkiThis. But I'm pretty sure they would all come back, bishop said that rn they are just hidden by still there


Thanks bro good look 💯
Aug 1 2016 7:47AM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22671 - Karma: 75,830
Yung_JimmyIf you do end up reinstating the upvote/downvote system, would all the upvote and downvote data from the past save as the same amount from before, or would votes on every post automatically reset to 0?

It was cool to see hilarious responses from old threads with hundreds of upvotes, it would kind of suck to see all those gone.


We didn't delete anything, so absolutely everything is still there.

GORILLAWALLACEso far I haven't noticed any increase in activity, but no decrease, and there is a lot less shitposting and attention whoring if you ask me.

I like the idea of a rep system. you can up/downvote a post but it will affect karma rather than the post itself. less direct than voting on individual posts, less passive than a one-time karma rating.


There has been a noticeable increase in forum traffic which I can see from Analytics - but its not immense by any means. Still should see how it plays out over a few more weeks before making any concrete statements about it.

Yes the rep system is the key to all of it I really think. People always say Karma is meaningless, but its not - and something like this might do a better job of reinforcing quality posting.
Aug 1 2016 11:04AM
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Randy_Quench
Posts: 5447 - Karma: 4,342
Dennis_Reynoldsbring it back- people say stupid shit and need to get downvoted


I honestly feel a loss in life not being able to downvote every one of your comments.
Aug 1 2016 12:36PM
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broto
Posts: 9039 - Karma: 25,659
bishop, have you discussed or analyzed at all the impact that the "Post what's on your mind" thread has on NSG? People would probably be up in arms if it was deleted, or even temporarily removed, but sometimes I feel like it's sucking the life out of NSG. It's like a separate forum within a forum and discourages creating new threads. Isn't NSG basically just "post what's on your mind" anyways?

food for thought in these attemped forum revivals
Aug 1 2016 2:20PM
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.Hugo.
Posts: 17360 - Karma: 28,469
brotobishop, have you discussed or analyzed at all the impact that the "Post what's on your mind" thread has on NSG? People would probably be up in arms if it was deleted, or even temporarily removed, but sometimes I feel like it's sucking the life out of NSG. It's like a separate forum within a forum and discourages creating new threads. Isn't NSG basically just "post what's on your mind" anyways?

food for thought in these attemped forum revivals


They did that a couple years ago and everyone started crying
Aug 2 2016 8:57AM
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1kewldewd
Posts: 795 - Karma: 1,143
THis is fucking retarded and was the only fun part of newschoolers.
Aug 2 2016 1:27PM
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kung_powpow
Posts: 1990 - Karma: 3,669
1kewldewdTHis is fucking retarded and was the only fun part of newschoolers.


2nd this. Ns stepped backwards
Aug 2 2016 5:04PM
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