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Why are people going to vote for bernie?

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brov1
Posts: 1826 - Karma: 8,837
It honestly makes no sense to me, and i am a democrat. his ideas don't align with the party at all. he just yells to please in a similar way to trump. bernie is a smart guy and i agree with him 100% from a moral perspective but the logical reason to support him just isn't there at all. He couldn't pass any of his unrealistic plans through a right leaning congress. for most of his ideas the math isn't even there. he underestimates the greed of society and he can't run a country through executive orders and yelling. he has less foreign policy experience than anyone and isn't trying to fix that. he honestly thinks that the rich will let him take their money. our military one of the most reliable and sizable sources of fighting terrorism in the world and downsizing the military on such a massive scale will not only stop aid from reaching those who need it but will shift economic and combat power elsewhere.even if you over exaggerated the shit out of what he plans to tax and say i don't know tax the highest tax bracket 100% it wouldn't pay for even a fraction of his ambitious endeavours. free college, lets be honest here that would never ever happen in this age. not all billionaires are inherently bad look at gates and buffet two of the richest who donate the majority of their income to charity and those who need it. i just can't find a convincing pro bernie argument anywhere. he feels to me like a leftist trump who just spouts unrealistic gibberish because people like to hear it.

only real pros are weed, and payed maternity leave
Feb 3 2016 1:05AM
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Peter.
Posts: 23796 - Karma: 13,012
californiagrownMy biggest issue with fully socialized healthcare is the quality of care...


as a medical student, this is a huge issue I see with the universal health care system. gone is the motivation to try and see more patients, and retain patients. If i'm making the same amount of money if i see 2 patients a day, or 50, why would i put in all that extra work? makes no sense. The smart people you want becoming doctors will start to choose other careers, leading to the downfall of medicine. (hint: this is why socialism fails)
Feb 4 2016 7:30PM
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madchronic
Posts: 460 - Karma: 324
S.J.WBernies ideas for universal health care and college are literally a reality in every other developed nation in the world. B

1) Socialism won't work in U.S.
2) You will end up paying for the whole tuition with the super high tax rates
Feb 4 2016 10:43PM
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S.J.W
Posts: 7609 - Karma: 31,182
madchronic1) Socialism won't work in U.S.
2) You will end up paying for the whole tuition with the super high tax rates


Socialism won't work in the US? But it already is in many many forms. Military, police, fire dpt, roads, border patrol, parks, public land like Alta ski resort, federal disaster relief, and the list continues. And no you won't. Bernie's plan is to propose a half a percent tax on wall street trades, and the state will provide the other half. For the middle class your taxes will rise a few %, nothing noticeable. I suggest you read Sanders plan here.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonynitti/2016/01/17/bernie-sanders-releases-tax-plan-nations-rich-recoil-in-horror/#d7e809e7340d
Feb 4 2016 10:54PM
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zakattack66
Posts: 185 - Karma: 577
Peter.as a medical student, this is a huge issue I see with the universal health care system. gone is the motivation to try and see more patients, and retain patients. If i'm making the same amount of money if i see 2 patients a day, or 50, why would i put in all that extra work? makes no sense. The smart people you want becoming doctors will start to choose other careers, leading to the downfall of medicine. (hint: this is why socialism fails)


People seem to forget that socialized healthcare works (canada, Sweden, Denmark). Why do you think it won't work in the United states?
Feb 4 2016 11:10PM
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Snazzy
Posts: 212 - Karma: 852
Shree Fit


must I say it more

Oh, and Hillary Clinton.

I would rather drink my own pea than vote for that lying cunt
Feb 4 2016 11:16PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
zakattack66People seem to forget that socialized healthcare works (canada, Sweden, Denmark). Why do you think it won't work in the United states?


It doesnt work as well. You have to wait months and months to get "non-essential" surgery and procedures. The best and the brightest do not neccessartily go into medecine- why do you think many of the best hospitals in the world are in the USA?

Any fucking day of the week if cost was equal, everybody would rather be in america for health care... because the quality is just better.
Feb 4 2016 11:58PM
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Peter.
Posts: 23796 - Karma: 13,012
zakattack66People seem to forget that socialized healthcare works (canada, Sweden, Denmark). Why do you think it won't work in the United states?


californiagrownIt doesnt work as well. You have to wait months and months to get "non-essential" surgery and procedures. The best and the brightest do not neccessartily go into medecine- why do you think many of the best hospitals in the world are in the USA?

Any fucking day of the week if cost was equal, everybody would rather be in america for health care... because the quality is just better.


californiagrown gets it. the level and quality of care in those countries is not great. the wait times for some procedures is absurd. why do you think canadians are coming across the border into NY for care?
Feb 5 2016 12:32AM
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Abu_Hajaar
Posts: 2747 - Karma: 3,890
Peter.as a medical student, this is a huge issue I see with the universal health care system. gone is the motivation to try and see more patients, and retain patients. If i'm making the same amount of money if i see 2 patients a day, or 50, why would i put in all that extra work? makes no sense. The smart people you want becoming doctors will start to choose other careers, leading to the downfall of medicine. (hint: this is why socialism fails)


The smartest minds go where the money is. This is why investment banks only hire from top schools
Feb 5 2016 12:48AM
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7springsprod
Posts: 2661 - Karma: 3,181
ITT
A bunch of college kids expecting Bernie Sanders to pay for their college.
Feb 5 2016 12:53AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
californiagrownIt doesnt work as well. You have to wait months and months to get "non-essential" surgery and procedures. The best and the brightest do not neccessartily go into medecine- why do you think many of the best hospitals in the world are in the USA?

Any fucking day of the week if cost was equal, everybody would rather be in america for health care... because the quality is just better.


FYI - just because a universal healthcare system is in place, it doesn't rule out the possibility of private insurance and private doctors. Germany & Austria are good examples of this- there is basic coverage for everyone but if you want to pay for private insurance so you can go to private doctors you can. But the basics are covered for everyone. If a similar system were in place in the USA it would only get better for people.
Feb 5 2016 6:49AM
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.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7408 - Karma: 11,040
onenerdykidFYI - just because a universal healthcare system is in place, it doesn't rule out the possibility of private insurance and private doctors. Germany & Austria are good examples of this- there is basic coverage for everyone but if you want to pay for private insurance so you can go to private doctors you can. But the basics are covered for everyone. If a similar system were in place in the USA it would only get better for people.


Agreed. Too many people associate Universal Healthcare with a Single Payer System. A Single Payer System is a type of Universal Healthcare, but there are other forms.

The question is, how can the US best implement one? What form would it take? How would it be financed? Etc.

Unfortunately, Bernie has chosen the most "radical" form of one that will generate a lot of backlash.
Feb 5 2016 7:56AM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
onenerdykidFYI - just because a universal healthcare system is in place, it doesn't rule out the possibility of private insurance and private doctors. Germany & Austria are good examples of this- there is basic coverage for everyone but if you want to pay for private insurance so you can go to private doctors you can. But the basics are covered for everyone. If a similar system were in place in the USA it would only get better for people.


Yeah I covered that last page.
Feb 5 2016 9:21AM
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Brule.
Posts: 3848 - Karma: 5,658
Wow this thread has gotten out of hand within the past 3 days.
Feb 5 2016 3:50PM
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zakattack66
Posts: 185 - Karma: 577
Peter.californiagrown gets it. the level and quality of care in those countries is not great. the wait times for some procedures is absurd. why do you think canadians are coming across the border into NY for care?


Why do you think all the rich people in the south go to Mexico for treatments?
Feb 5 2016 10:15PM
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zakattack66
Posts: 185 - Karma: 577
californiagrownIt doesnt work as well. You have to wait months and months to get "non-essential" surgery and procedures. The best and the brightest do not neccessartily go into medecine- why do you think many of the best hospitals in the world are in the USA?

Any fucking day of the week if cost was equal, everybody would rather be in america for health care... because the quality is just better.


Did you know that the quality of of hospitals is much better in Madrid? It is cheaper to book a first class return flight to Spain, get treatment, and stay in a hotel for two weeks than to get treatment in the US. I went in to my tiny hometown hospital last year because of a compound fracture in my wrist. They gave me a CAT scan and a cast. For free. Service was fucking excellent. Also, our best and brightest DO go to medicine; however there's a huge amount of doctors because the money is quite good. So many people now are going into other STEM research areas. Please educate yourself before you speak.
Feb 5 2016 10:25PM
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iH8pow
Posts: 1728 - Karma: 7,220
I'm not, but I registered as a democrat so I can go to caucus and vote for him. After that, I intend on voting for Gary Johnson. Republicans mostly are kinda whack and Bernie is too far left.
Feb 6 2016 1:35AM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
zakattack66Did you know that the quality of of hospitals is much better in Madrid? It is cheaper to book a first class return flight to Spain, get treatment, and stay in a hotel for two weeks than to get treatment in the US. I went in to my tiny hometown hospital last year because of a compound fracture in my wrist. They gave me a CAT scan and a cast. For free. Service was fucking excellent. Also, our best and brightest DO go to medicine; however there's a huge amount of doctors because the money is quite good. So many people now are going into other STEM research areas. Please educate yourself before you speak.


I dont know of a country with socialized healthcare where i can go into my doctor on tuesday at lunch complaining of knee pain but showing no outword symptoms, have an MRI scheduled for that afternoon, and then have surgery two days later to scrape a meniscus and do general cleanup. It would take weeks if at all to go through that proccess.


You had a medical emergency that REQUIRED immediate treatment. that is why it was so quick. And i never said socialized healthcare creates a poor standard of care. I said it will lower the standard of care my family and I receive right now. And if you got your treatment for "free" then i my last knee surgury only cost me $150 from first visit to post op haha.

And yes, the best hospitals in the world are overwhelmingly in the good ol USA.
Feb 6 2016 2:09AM
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*MASSHOLE*
Posts: 224 - Karma: -80
californiagrownI dont know of a country with socialized healthcare where i can go into my doctor on tuesday at lunch complaining of knee pain but showing no outword symptoms, have an MRI scheduled for that afternoon, and then have surgery two days later to scrape a meniscus and do general cleanup. It would take weeks if at all to go through that proccess.


not at all how the process typically goes. You got lucky. A good doctor in a big city would never be able to schedule you two days after finding out. Bad example. Certainly not typical, especially for the poor.


But who cares right?!? when you have a nice big bubble of rich white privilege to protect you nothing can bring you down!
Feb 6 2016 10:59AM
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Mingg
Posts: 13936 - Karma: 48,466
onenerdykidFYI - just because a universal healthcare system is in place, it doesn't rule out the possibility of private insurance and private doctors. Germany & Austria are good examples of this- there is basic coverage for everyone but if you want to pay for private insurance so you can go to private doctors you can. But the basics are covered for everyone. If a similar system were in place in the USA it would only get better for people.


I'll probably get a bunch of shit for this but oh well. Why would you force someone into paying for something they can't/ won't/ don't want ? Not everyone wants to or will go to college, why should they pay more for that? Not everyone wants basic health insurance. Why should they have to pay for that if they aren't going to use it? Not trying to argue or anything but I'm genuinely interested in the reasoning behind that.
Feb 6 2016 1:00PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
MinggI'll probably get a bunch of shit for this but oh well. Why would you force someone into paying for something they can't/ won't/ don't want ? Not everyone wants to or will go to college, why should they pay more for that? Not everyone wants basic health insurance. Why should they have to pay for that if they aren't going to use it? Not trying to argue or anything but I'm genuinely interested in the reasoning behind that.


It has been said that taxes are the price we pay for living together in a civilized society. Some societies believe that the government exists to do more than simply keeping us from killing each other. They believe that the government exists to promote human flourishing and well being. In this light, they have shown that a healthier and better educated public are steps to achieving that.

Not everyone will use it or take advantage of it, but the vast majority in many of these countries do. Just as I have never had to call the police to save me or call the fire department to put out a fire in my house. But I pay for in my taxes nonetheless. The greater good is served by my taxes going to fund the police force and fire department, even if I have not needed their services. European countries that have free university and free healthcare say the same thing- their greater good is being served even if a percentage of its citizens don't take advantage of it.
Feb 6 2016 1:11PM
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Mingg
Posts: 13936 - Karma: 48,466
onenerdykidJust as I have never had to call the police to save me or call the fire department to put out a fire in my house. But I pay for in my taxes nonetheless. The greater good is served by my taxes going to fund the police force and fire department, even if I have not needed their services. European countries that have free university and free healthcare say the same thing- their greater good is being served even if a percentage of its citizens don't take advantage of it.


Well damn. I never thought about it like that. That makes a lot of sense actually. Healthcare makes sense since almost everyone will use it in some form. Specifying which one you get though is a little shady imo but oh well. And we already pay for grades K-12 through taxes so I guess it's kind of the same.

Not sure if this is on topic, but I'll throw it out there anyways. Would 4 years of college become the same standard that a high school diploma is now? Meaning that you'd have to continue on even farther in school(phd for example) to get an equivalent average/above average job? Would those added years be covered by the government or would they become the equivalent of college now where you have to continue to pay out of pocket?
Feb 6 2016 1:22PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
MinggNot sure if this is on topic, but I'll throw it out there anyways. Would 4 years of college become the same standard that a high school diploma is now? Meaning that you'd have to continue on even farther in school(phd for example) to get an equivalent average/above average job? Would those added years be covered by the government or would they become the equivalent of college now where you have to continue to pay out of pocket?


That's basically happening anyways. If you look back to the 60s & 70s, having a high school diploma was an achievement and going to college was pretty fancy stuff. Back then, a college degree really helped distinguish people in the job marketplace. Now, a college degree is as common as a high school diploma was back then. People are going for MAs, MBAs, and PhDs to help distinguish themselves (less on the PhD side, MAs and MBAs are getting more and more common).

Added years would most likely not be covered, but they might be. As of right now, I don't foresee it being part of the plan, just like healthcare in many European countries- everyone gets the basics but if you want more or "special care", then you have to pay for it privately. They want to ensure that everyone has a good basic level of education and health, and I see Bernie's university plan as going more to raise the standard of education not turn everyone into PhD astrophysicists.
Feb 6 2016 1:30PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
B1tchnot at all how the process typically goes. You got lucky. A good doctor in a big city would never be able to schedule you two days after finding out. Bad example. Certainly not typical, especially for the poor.


But who cares right?!? when you have a nice big bubble of rich white privilege to protect you nothing can bring you down!


Soooo that example was from the Seahawks surgeon up here in seattle, and the raiders surgeon down in the bay area. Its very common. Regardless, the wait times for "non essential" procedures are less in a privatized healthcare system... that is a fact.

The aspect of socialized healthcare i like is that everyone has access to neccessary treatment. The part i dont like is that i will either recieve a lower standard of care(timliness largely), or will have to pay more for the same standard of care.
Feb 6 2016 8:53PM
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zakattack66
Posts: 185 - Karma: 577
californiagrownI dont know of a country with socialized healthcare where i can go into my doctor on tuesday at lunch complaining of knee pain but showing no outword symptoms, have an MRI scheduled for that afternoon, and then have surgery two days later to scrape a meniscus and do general cleanup. It would take weeks if at all to go through that proccess.


You had a medical emergency that REQUIRED immediate treatment. that is why it was so quick. And i never said socialized healthcare creates a poor standard of care. I said it will lower the standard of care my family and I receive right now. And if you got your treatment for "free" then i my last knee surgury only cost me $150 from first visit to post op haha.

And yes, the best hospitals in the world are overwhelmingly in the good ol USA.


Yeah I'll just leave this here. It might help you realize how wrong you are. http://www.forbes.com/2009/09/11/medical-emergency-abroad-evacuation-personal-finance-hospitals.html
Feb 6 2016 9:18PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
zakattack66Yeah I'll just leave this here. It might help you realize how wrong you are. http://www.forbes.com/2009/09/11/medical-emergency-abroad-evacuation-personal-finance-hospitals.html


That's why Forbes asked HTH Worldwide to provide us with a list of the top-ranked hospitals in popular retirement and travel destinations. To do so, HTH tapped into its global network of 5,500 English-speaking, top-quality doctors. All hospitals in our slideshow are facilities of choice for patients medically evacuated from countries with substandard health care.


Lol.
Feb 6 2016 10:20PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
zakattack66Yeah I'll just leave this here. It might help you realize how wrong you are. http://www.forbes.com/2009/09/11/medical-emergency-abroad-evacuation-personal-finance-hospitals.html


I think what you were looking for is something like this list... http://hospitals.webometrics.info/en/world
Feb 6 2016 10:23PM
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rememberscott
Posts: 1291 - Karma: 5,199
if someone votes for bernie sanders it means they're living in fairy tale land. /thread
Feb 6 2016 10:25PM
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rememberscott
Posts: 1291 - Karma: 5,199
onenerdykidIt has been said that taxes are the price we pay for living together in a civilized society. Some societies believe that the government exists to do more than simply keeping us from killing each other. They believe that the government exists to promote human flourishing and well being. In this light, they have shown that a healthier and better educated public are steps to achieving that.

Not everyone will use it or take advantage of it, but the vast majority in many of these countries do. Just as I have never had to call the police to save me or call the fire department to put out a fire in my house. But I pay for in my taxes nonetheless. The greater good is served by my taxes going to fund the police force and fire department, even if I have not needed their services. European countries that have free university and free healthcare say the same thing- their greater good is being served even if a percentage of its citizens don't take advantage of it.


there's a difference between paying taxes for a police force or fire department (necessary for a community) and paying taxes for "free college for everyone" "free healthcare for everyone" not even close to necessary. ----> wrong path for this country

ok mr. socialist do you know how socialism works? it works if everyone works together and plays their part. have you ever had to work on a group project at school? did everyone in your group put forth effort ? didn't think so.

if everyone can't be rich, then we shall be equally poor as a country right? just work for the government and let them take care of us? do you derpfucks even know about the our history? the revolution? how this country was created? how we demanded freedom from the British government?

it's funny how in a country already filled with entitlement, we demand more. you lib fucks should be ashamed
Feb 6 2016 10:45PM
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*MASSHOLE*
Posts: 224 - Karma: -80
HP123there's a difference between paying taxes for a police force or fire department (necessary for a community) and paying taxes for "free college for everyone" "free healthcare for everyone" not even close to necessary. ----> wrong path for this country

You just said that a having a healthy and educated population is the wrong path for this country....
Feb 6 2016 10:59PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
HP123there's a difference between paying taxes for a police force or fire department (necessary for a community) and paying taxes for "free healthcare for everyone" not even close to necessary.



do you derpfucks even know about the our history? the revolution? how this country was created? how we demanded freedom from the British government?


I disagree with the first part. i think healthcare is neccessary for a society- just as neccessary as police or fire. Health and safety are incredibly important and are hallmarks of a flourishing society.


So does the second part have to do with the USA revolting against taxation without representation? Is that what you were going for? I honestly am asking.
Feb 6 2016 11:38PM
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Black.Bird
Posts: 2566 - Karma: 684
zakattack66Did you know that the quality of of hospitals is much better in Madrid? It is cheaper to book a first class return flight to Spain, get treatment, and stay in a hotel for two weeks than to get treatment in the US. I went in to my tiny hometown hospital last year because of a compound fracture in my wrist. They gave me a CAT scan and a cast. For free. Service was fucking excellent. Also, our best and brightest DO go to medicine; however there's a huge amount of doctors because the money is quite good. So many people now are going into other STEM research areas. Please educate yourself before you speak.


The average hip replacement in the US costs $40,364. In Spain, it costs $7,371. I can literally fly to Spain, live in Madrid for two years, learn Spanish, run with the bulls, get trampled, get my hip replaced again, and fly home for less than the cost of a hip replacement in the US.
Feb 6 2016 11:44PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
HP123if someone votes for bernie sanders it means they're living in fairy tale land. /thread


Interesting... so if I live in a country that already has many of Bernie's proposals in full effect, then I live in fairy tale land? Austria has had in place for years free university and universal healthcare and it has not caused their society to become lazy or ill motivated, rather the opposite. Also, having used their healthcare system for exams, injury treatment/prevention, and minor surgery I can say that it is far better than what I received back in the States given the health insurance I could afford. Real life, not fantasy.

HP123there's a difference between paying taxes for a police force or fire department (necessary for a community) and paying taxes for "free college for everyone" "free healthcare for everyone" not even close to necessary. ----> wrong path for this country

ok mr. socialist do you know how socialism works? it works if everyone works together and plays their part. have you ever had to work on a group project at school? did everyone in your group put forth effort ? didn't think so.

if everyone can't be rich, then we shall be equally poor as a country right? just work for the government and let them take care of us? do you derpfucks even know about the our history? the revolution? how this country was created? how we demanded freedom from the British government?

it's funny how in a country already filled with entitlement, we demand more. you lib fucks should be ashamed


Right now, the USA ranks 15th in personal freedom, 11th in entrepreneurship, and 11th in economy, and 11th overall in the Legatum Prosperity Index. While we are for sure in a good spot, we are hardly the beacon of freedom you claim us to be and democratic socialism is hardly the pitfall you think it is, since ALL of the countries that rank higher than us are versions of democratic socialism. Real examples that show your rhetoric is empty and not based on sufficient evidence.

I don't think you know how socialism works and how it is different from democratic socialism. No one is talking about not having rich people and not having poor people. Its about creating a better balance between the rich & poor, instead of the top 400 people earning more than the bottom 150 million. EVERY major economist thinks that the current disparity in our distribution of wealth is a bad direction to continue down (they just differ on how to solve it). And don't worry- as EVERY other democratic socialist countries proves, you'll still be able to become rich in democratic socialism. You'll still be able to start any business you want. There will just be more government programs in place to ensure that the common good has more potential to flourish. It's not about giving simple handouts, it's about investing in your country's well being. It's about giving citizens more education and the ability to stay healthy- two things that every country will be better off with.

Democratic socialism is not about giving everyone an equal share or forcing people to work in groups. It is a democratic system that simply uses tax payer money to fund more programs to promote the flourishing of the common good. All of your personal freedoms would still be in place and arguably you would gain personal freedoms. All of your current economic opportunities would still be in place and you would arguably gain economic opportunities. I think you need to do a bit more research on the subject.
Feb 7 2016 4:29AM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
Black.BirdThe average hip replacement in the US costs $40,364. In Spain, it costs $7,371. I can literally fly to Spain, live in Madrid for two years, learn Spanish, run with the bulls, get trampled, get my hip replaced again, and fly home for less than the cost of a hip replacement in the US.


Is that out of pocket cost, or is that how much the hospital charges?

Is it hospitals, big pharma, or someone else that sees tiny profit in comparison to the American counterpart? Who loses out on the 33k per surgery
Feb 7 2016 11:09AM
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.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7408 - Karma: 11,040
Any Brits reading this thread? I am curious to know your take on the Junior Doctors Strike going on right now.
Feb 7 2016 11:49AM
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philipc
Posts: 6651 - Karma: 1,286
KravtZAll of his free ideas involve spending...and taking that money from hard working americans. I dont care if you make 100 million or 1000 a year. You deserve to keep what you make.

I paid for college on my own with NO help through hard work, smarts, and good grades which ledme into some high paying internships which led into a decent paying job which let me live a good life.

I dont want to be enslaved forever in school debt because this moron wants to let everyone off the hook. The problem isn't colleges...they are just opportunistic.

The problem is GOVERNMENT. They are the ones who caused tuition to massively rise by pushing degrees on everyone when most shouldnt have it and guaranteeing colleges the money 100% with no bankruptcy option in the future.


I pay a higher tax rate working here in Utah than when I work in New Zealand in their winter. I get free healthcare in NZ and minimum wage is $15 an hour. The facts are people that are making billions of dollars a year don't need it and society is much better when the lower income earners can afford to pay their bills. Billionaires who are making these salaries now aren't earning it either, they are exploiting the customer facing workers at the bottom.
Feb 7 2016 12:48PM
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philipc
Posts: 6651 - Karma: 1,286
Peter.as a medical student, this is a huge issue I see with the universal health care system. gone is the motivation to try and see more patients, and retain patients. If i'm making the same amount of money if i see 2 patients a day, or 50, why would i put in all that extra work? makes no sense. The smart people you want becoming doctors will start to choose other careers, leading to the downfall of medicine. (hint: this is why socialism fails)


I have worked with a lot of successful doctors and nearly 100% do it because they love helping people. Not everyone is in it for the money, bruh. Have you ever received healthcare in a more socialized country? It has been very good for me and the costs are much cheaper for almost everyone. Even after factoring in taxes.
Feb 7 2016 1:00PM
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Charlie_Kelly
Posts: 11953 - Karma: 12,296
Peter.as a medical student, this is a huge issue I see with the universal health care system. gone is the motivation to try and see more patients, and retain patients. If i'm making the same amount of money if i see 2 patients a day, or 50, why would i put in all that extra work? makes no sense. The smart people you want becoming doctors will start to choose other careers, leading to the downfall of medicine. (hint: this is why socialism fails)


Considering my gf is a semester away from becoming a RN, id say youre way off with this. Like mentioned above, most medical students are in it because they loving helping others and/or are fascinated with the science. Like she said " I wouldnt put myself through all that if I didnt love what I did". Plus all youre doing is spitting your own personal theory on how socialized medicine COULD fail. You really have no idea how bernies policy would effect the U.S.

Personally I want to see a system in place that garuntees a certain level of care for all its citizens. If you want better treatment you should have the option to pay more for it. I also dont want insurance companies to have the ability to deny a patient for preexisting conditions or drop a patient when they require too much treatment. The privitized system, though spurring medical advancment, also denies millions and millions of people access to adequate medical treatment. In a first world country, and supposedly the "best country in the world" thats fucking pathetic and unacceptable...
Feb 7 2016 3:46PM
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*MASSHOLE*
Posts: 224 - Karma: -80
I'm voting for Bernie because I'm poor.
I grew up in a trailer with a recovering meth addicted step-father 19 miles from a gas station. I still consider myself privileged when compared to how horrid living conditions are in the darkest corners of this country. If I were given the ability to choose where my tax dollars go, it would be towards education and healthcare.
Millions of hard working Americans agree with me.
Feb 7 2016 5:05PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
Granite_StateLike she said " I wouldnt put myself through all that if I didnt love what I did"

I dont really like engineering much at all but i do it largely for the money and lifestyle it provides . But then again, becoming a doctor is much, much different than becoming a nurse or an engineer (neither require nearly the effort or time). Lots of people do their job because its not awful and they can make lots of money and have free time.
B1tchI'm voting for Bernie because I'm poor.
I grew up in a trailer with a recovering meth addicted step-father 19 miles from a gas station. I still consider myself privileged when compared to how horrid living conditions are in the darkest corners of this country. If I were given the ability to choose where my tax dollars go, it would be towards education and healthcare.
Millions of hard working Americans agree with me.


why not choose to be taxed less and give directly to charities/organizations you like?
Feb 7 2016 8:05PM
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HornyOrphan
Posts: 150 - Karma: 145
HP123there's a difference between paying taxes for a police force or fire department (necessary for a community) and paying taxes for "free college for everyone" "free healthcare for everyone" not even close to necessary. ----> wrong path for this country

ok mr. socialist do you know how socialism works? it works if everyone works together and plays their part. have you ever had to work on a group project at school? did everyone in your group put forth effort ? didn't think so.

if everyone can't be rich, then we shall be equally poor as a country right? just work for the government and let them take care of us? do you derpfucks even know about the our history? the revolution? how this country was created? how we demanded freedom from the British government?

it's funny how in a country already filled with entitlement, we demand more. you lib fucks should be ashamed


I can't deal with the unintelligence in the political threads on NS oh ma god
Feb 7 2016 8:10PM
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Charlie_Kelly
Posts: 11953 - Karma: 12,296
californiagrownI dont really like engineering much at all but i do it largely for the money and lifestyle it provides . But then again, becoming a doctor is much, much different than becoming a nurse or an engineer (neither require nearly the effort or time). Lots of people do their job because its not awful and they can make lots of money and have free time.


why not choose to be taxed less and give directly to charities/organizations you like?


Oh I'm sure, I'm just saying that the medical field generally attracts a certain type of person, people who either like and want to help others, and people who enjoy the science. And I would bet the vast majority in the medical field put that before how much money they can make. I'm not saying that's not a factor, just that it isn't the most important one.
Feb 7 2016 8:32PM
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foolmetwice
Posts: 600 - Karma: 1,008
KravtZBecause honestly I dont care about the vast majority of other people. I get great healthcare through my company at a very very reasonable price and good deductibles. So now I have to pay more for others even though I am good in my current situation. You see the problem? Its not my problem others have issues...its there own problem.

Wow thats fucked up
Feb 7 2016 9:07PM
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*MASSHOLE*
Posts: 224 - Karma: -80
KravtZBecause honestly I dont care about the vast majority of other people. I get great healthcare through my company at a very very reasonable price and good deductibles. So now I have to pay more for others even though I am good in my current situation. You see the problem? Its not my problem others have issues...its there own problem.


You are a dumb cunt.
Feb 7 2016 11:17PM
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rememberscott
Posts: 1291 - Karma: 5,199
B1tchI'm voting for Bernie because I'm poor.
I grew up in a trailer with a recovering meth addicted step-father 19 miles from a gas station. I still consider myself privileged when compared to how horrid living conditions are in the darkest corners of this country. If I were given the ability to choose where my tax dollars go, it would be towards education and healthcare.
Millions of hard working Americans agree with me.


ladies and gentleman here is a prime example of a bernie sanders voter. lmao
Feb 8 2016 12:05AM
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*MASSHOLE*
Posts: 224 - Karma: -80
HP123ladies and gentleman here is a prime example of a bernie sanders voter. lmao


are you ridiculing me because of the situation I was born into?

It must be nice knowing you'll always have a home to go to.
Feb 8 2016 12:27AM
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rememberscott
Posts: 1291 - Karma: 5,199
B1tchare you ridiculing me because of the situation I was born into?

It must be nice knowing you'll always have a home to go to.


considering I work and pay my own bills, yes it's very nice to go home to the duplex I pay for.

you're just an example of a small-minded individual that will vote for whatever "free" shit you can get your hands on. it sounds nice but when you see all of our tax dollars go down the drain it's a damn shame.

NO EVERYONE DOES NOT NEED TO GO TO COLLEGE DUMB FUCKS
Feb 8 2016 12:32AM
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K-Dot.
Posts: 3703 - Karma: 7,375
HP123considering I work and pay my own bills, yes it's very nice to go home to the duplex I pay for.

you're just an example of a small-minded individual that will vote for whatever "free" shit you can get your hands on. it sounds nice but when you see all of our tax dollars go down the drain it's a damn shame.

NO EVERYONE DOES NOT NEED TO GO TO COLLEGE DUMB FUCKS


At the top of the screen, just to the right of your icon is a button that says 'logout'. You should try clicking on it more
Feb 8 2016 12:57AM
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S.J.W
Posts: 7609 - Karma: 31,182
HP123considering I work and pay my own bills, yes it's very nice to go home to the duplex I pay for.

you're just an example of a small-minded individual that will vote for whatever "free" shit you can get your hands on. it sounds nice but when you see all of our tax dollars go down the drain it's a damn shame.

NO EVERYONE DOES NOT NEED TO GO TO COLLEGE DUMB FUCKS


If you just read the graph on page 2 of this study you will see that the US is pretty much average with the OECD for tertiary education. And the rest of those countries have much much cheaper tertiary education compared to America. But you don't see millions getting a pointless degree. I hope what Bernie will do if he does manage to pass a bill reforming college is that he will also focus on trade schools, apprenticeships and other pathways to a career. I agree with you that college should be a privilege that not everyone needs/ should get into.



http://www.oecd.org/australia/EAG2012%20-%20Country%20note%20-%20Australia.pdf
Feb 8 2016 1:12AM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
The growing gap between the richest and poorest in this country is the greatest travesty of our generation, and it's fed by superpacs and money shot like heroin into the democratic and republican parties.

Feel the bern, trump the fatcats, but at the end of the day, burn it all down.
Feb 8 2016 1:22AM
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*MASSHOLE*
Posts: 224 - Karma: -80
HP123considering I work and pay my own bills, yes it's very nice to go home to the duplex I pay for.

you're just an example of a small-minded individual that will vote for whatever "free" shit you can get your hands on. it sounds nice but when you see all of our tax dollars go down the drain it's a damn shame.

NO EVERYONE DOES NOT NEED TO GO TO COLLEGE DUMB FUCKS


There is much for you to learn young Padawan.

My tax $$$ is already going down the drain. Do you have an idea what a subsidy is?????
Feb 8 2016 1:35AM
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