Lawsuits. Will this be the end of Terrain Parks?

Why does everyone feel like they're entitled to everything these days?

“You won’t have to worry about litigation if you’re doing things right.”

see all of the following
http://www.loweringthebar.net/lawsuits-baffling/
http://www.loweringthebar.net/lawsuits-ridiculous/
http://www.loweringthebar.net/lawsuits-unlikely/
http://www.loweringthebar.net/lawsuits_unnecessary/

What would I say? I would say this thread is clearly about skiing, yet it is in non-ski gabber.

How the fuck do people even sue mountains? Aren't they protected when you sign the waiver or whatever? Or are mountains going to have to start writing in their contracts you sign when you purchase a pass that you will not sue if you injure yourself on the mountain.

pretty sure resorts cant get sued in michigan, but fuck people who want to sue resorts. it was probably your fault if it only happened to you and if they close the mountain or make the terrain park less extreme youre ruining it for everybody else. suing is kinda ruining america.

Honestly thought that with the salvini case. I think a lot of people were just kind of waiting to see what would happen. Life in the park goes on though.

I was very worried that insurance would cut creative freedom of those working in the park, and attempt to standardize everything in an area where it's really tough to.

There is a wrong way to build a park, but more than one right way for every feature. If so much time was spent focussed on making sure your taking was exactly X amount of degrees, that it was x feet long for every foot in height. Etc.

Luckily terrain park building has come a long way in the last 10-15 years, as the sports have grown. The fact that more people who know what the hell they're doing are the ones building parks, is really helping things. I'm hoping if this continues things will be alright.

That said there have already been talked for years trying to curb the liability side of freestyle skiing/snowboarding by standardizing everything. I hope it never happens. I feel like I know what I'm doing in the park, I overthink small details regularly to try and make things perfect, but if I had a forum a had to follow perfectly to build a park or it would get shut down(maybe that's way overkill for anything proposed but still) I don't think I would want that job anymore.

There needs to be standards in terrain parks. When you look at the random mountains that have a sketchy park because they don't know what they're doing, this is the reason why. That said most parks are moving to build things a certain way because that's what works, not because some insurance person says that they have to.

I honestly try not to worry about it too much anymore. I do the best I can to keep the parks I work in, and the guests that ride them safe, that's honestly all I can do. Whether things stay open for years, or committees and rules come in to police park building, I have no idea. If it happens to whatever extent, it is what it is. Too me I can't really do anything to change that other than do the best I can, and just trucking on.

The trend in the last 5 years of DIALED is something I always hoped I'd see. Something I always though was achievable but was something that still wasn't happening for a while.

Unfortunately no matter how well built a jump or park is, if somebody get's hurt and decides they're going to sue, it's going to cause some major problems. If it's serious or they have $$$, it's bad.

Luckily insurance groups have gained some serious experience through battling some of these cases and I just hope that we can continue to have fun in terrain parks.

A world where everything is so bubble wrapped that we can't have terrain parks, skateparks, playgrounds, trampolines, or anything else fun because somebody could sue, is a world I don't want to live in.

Thankfully it's the end of summer 15, we're rolling into winter 15/16, and there are TONS of awesome established parks, as well as a bunch of smaller hungry parks trying to move up the ranks.

Stay safe out there, and pray for some motherfucking snow!

YoungGun.What would I say? I would say this thread is clearly about skiing, yet it is in non-ski gabber.

Sorry, I thought it was not about skis but about law. News? Anyway, just felt the need to share it to the community.

yungsteezepretty sure resorts cant get sued in michigan, but fuck people who want to sue resorts. it was probably your fault if it only happened to you and if they close the mountain or make the terrain park less extreme youre ruining it for everybody else. suing is kinda ruining america.

Bachelor is doing a whole new deal this season. Along with your season pass you will need an additional pass ID card.

I know it sounds strange, but the lawyers are trying to invalidate the waiver that has been in place forever.

All the parks have huge signs at all the entries and are roped off from the sides.
We all know what those signs say as well.

There's something in the law called assumption of risk. Unless they can prove there was actual negligence on the up keeping of the park or they built something intentionally to hurt patron. They will not win this claim, this is amarica I could sue you because the color of your hair stresses me out doesn't mean I'll win. We live in a litigious society nothing has changed.

S.J.WHow the fuck do people even sue mountains? Aren't they protected when you sign the waiver or whatever? Or are mountains going to have to start writing in their contracts you sign when you purchase a pass that you will not sue if you injure yourself on the mountain.

Sadly signing a waiver doesn't make much of a difference anymore. It's making companies and resorts more nervous so they are being more restrictive. My mountain got rid of it's jumps are some woman broke her collar bone or something on one of them.

theabortionatorHonestly thought that with the salvini case. I think a lot of people were just kind of waiting to see what would happen. Life in the park goes on though.

I was very worried that insurance would cut creative freedom of those working in the park, and attempt to standardize everything in an area where it's really tough to.

There is a wrong way to build a park, but more than one right way for every feature. If so much time was spent focussed on making sure your taking was exactly X amount of degrees, that it was x feet long for every foot in height. Etc.

Luckily terrain park building has come a long way in the last 10-15 years, as the sports have grown. The fact that more people who know what the hell they're doing are the ones building parks, is really helping things. I'm hoping if this continues things will be alright.

That said there have already been talked for years trying to curb the liability side of freestyle skiing/snowboarding by standardizing everything. I hope it never happens. I feel like I know what I'm doing in the park, I overthink small details regularly to try and make things perfect, but if I had a forum a had to follow perfectly to build a park or it would get shut down(maybe that's way overkill for anything proposed but still) I don't think I would want that job anymore.

There needs to be standards in terrain parks. When you look at the random mountains that have a sketchy park because they don't know what they're doing, this is the reason why. That said most parks are moving to build things a certain way because that's what works, not because some insurance person says that they have to.

I honestly try not to worry about it too much anymore. I do the best I can to keep the parks I work in, and the guests that ride them safe, that's honestly all I can do. Whether things stay open for years, or committees and rules come in to police park building, I have no idea. If it happens to whatever extent, it is what it is. Too me I can't really do anything to change that other than do the best I can, and just trucking on.

The trend in the last 5 years of DIALED is something I always hoped I'd see. Something I always though was achievable but was something that still wasn't happening for a while.

Unfortunately no matter how well built a jump or park is, if somebody get's hurt and decides they're going to sue, it's going to cause some major problems. If it's serious or they have $$$, it's bad.

Luckily insurance groups have gained some serious experience through battling some of these cases and I just hope that we can continue to have fun in terrain parks.

A world where everything is so bubble wrapped that we can't have terrain parks, skateparks, playgrounds, trampolines, or anything else fun because somebody could sue, is a world I don't want to live in.

Thankfully it's the end of summer 15, we're rolling into winter 15/16, and there are TONS of awesome established parks, as well as a bunch of smaller hungry parks trying to move up the ranks.

Stay safe out there, and pray for some motherfucking snow!

I feel Bachelor has done a fine job with their parks.

The problem is people who don't check it first!

Here is a good example. They even had EXTRA signs that said CAUTION DROP and these two did not CHECK THE FEATURE! That's their fault!

https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/645868/Look-BEFORE-You-Leap---Terrain-Park-Skiing-Fail-

The guy went off the jump and took the risk, most parks these days even have the safety sign with the whole "check yoself before you wreck yoself" type shit. I'm pretty sure on tickets they say stuff like "you are willing to risk injury" and stuff like that. Everyone is just suing whoever they can these days

if parks survived the sketchy days of late 90s-early 2000s they wont be shut down by this

DominatorJacquesI feel Bachelor has done a fine job with their parks.

The problem is people who don't check it first!

Here is a good example. They even had EXTRA signs that said CAUTION DROP and these two did not CHECK THE FEATURE! That's their fault!

I wasnt arguing against that at all honestly.

theabortionatorI wasnt arguing against that at all honestly.

Oh don't get me wrong. I did not think you were arguing at all.

I found your input very insightful. I appreciate your input as one who works in the industry.

Let's hope somehow all this crap can be put to rest once and for all.

Riders assume all risk. Be it park or otherwise unless some company truck, snowmobile, or snowcat runs you over etc. That's another story.

Take care man, and best to you.

DominatorJacquesOh don't get me wrong. I did not think you were arguing at all.

I found your input very insightful. I appreciate your input as one who works in the industry.

Let's hope somehow all this crap can be put to rest once and for all.

Riders assume all risk. Be it park or otherwise unless some company truck, snowmobile, or snowcat runs you over etc. That's another story.

Take care man, and best to you.

Word word. I just didn't want you to think I was hating on their parks.

I agree unfortunately as a society we seem to be going the other direction, and quickly.

The world owes you everything, everything that happens is someone elses fault etc.

Personal accountability went out the window.

As far as the snowmobiles and snowcat thing. That's one of the reasons a lot of places are strict about ducking ropes. Generally places run a cats working sign or two in addition to a trail being closed but if somebody hits a snowmobile or a cat that's bad news all around.

Somebody in the small town I grew up in rolled their ankle in a pot hole and sued the town for 80k and won i believe. And this was like 15 years ago. In a town with 400 year round residents, no stoplights in the entire county, but because there was a small pothole in this tiny bumfuck town, that this person couldn't walk around, they pretty much got a free house.

I understand in some situations, there really is some serious bullshit, but a lot of times it's just people trying to exploit their injuries to get rich, or switch the blame to pay for their injuries.

bummer

^ Truth is sometimes sad. You are right on. ^

DominatorJacquesOh don't get me wrong. I did not think you were arguing at all.

I found your input very insightful. I appreciate your input as one who works in the industry.

Let's hope somehow all this crap can be put to rest once and for all.

Riders assume all risk. Be it park or otherwise unless some company truck, snowmobile, or snowcat runs you over etc. That's another story.

Take care man, and best to you.

Word word. I just didn't want you to think I was hating on their parks.

I agree unfortunately as a society we seem to be going the other direction, and quickly.

The world owes you everything, everything that happens is someone elses fault etc.

Personal accountability went out the window.

As far as the snowmobiles and snowcat thing. That's one of the reasons a lot of places are strict about ducking ropes. Generally places run a cats working sign or two in addition to a trail being closed but if somebody hits a snowmobile or a cat that's bad news all around.

Somebody in the small town I grew up in rolled their ankle in a pot hole and sued the town for 80k and won i believe. And this was like 15 years ago. In a town with 400 year round residents, no stoplights in the entire county, but because there was a small pothole in this tiny bumfuck town, that this person couldn't walk around, they pretty much got a free house.

I understand in some situations, there really is some serious bullshit, but a lot of times it's just people trying to exploit their injuries to get rich, or switch the blame to pay for their injuries.

bummer

yungsteezepretty sure resorts cant get sued in michigan, but fuck people who want to sue resorts. it was probably your fault if it only happened to you and if they close the mountain or make the terrain park less extreme youre ruining it for everybody else. suing is kinda ruining america.

Crystal got sued
We lost our jump line last year

They don't have to win, they just have get the ski area's insurance company to decide its a safer bet to settle.

What else is there to say? Another suit-and-tie douchebag that probably shouldnt have been in the park in the first place that is now frustrated with the choice of his actions, refuses to take responsibility like a big boy does, and now people get to deal with the consequences of his very frivolous lawsuit.

Its really shocking the lawsuit culture we have here. Fucking eh, lawyer ads on TV pretty much tell people to frivolously sue regardless of who is at fault. YOU deserve money and SOMEONE has to pay the consequence. Shit is all fucked up and idk how people can be lawyers in the society we have today, at least in the states.

yungsteezesuing is kinda ruining america.

Lawsuits RUIN(ED) America. People bitch about the high cost of medical. You know why? Doctors having to carry multimillion dollars of malpractice insurance just to take somebody's blood pressure for starters...

LonelyCrystal got sued
We lost our jump line last year

I hope for the love of god you found out who filed the suit and beat the living shit out of them/their parents/grandmother/first born child....

We lost our jump line in 2010, place is doing a park over haul this summer, hoping jumps are getting back in the picture.

You know why? Doctors having to carry multimillion dollars of malpractice insurance just to take somebody's blood pressure for starters...

That is a totally and completely false statement a lot of very independent researchers have researched and look into this. They concluded if they got rid of malpractice suits it would make up for less than 3% of American health care costs.

nocturnalThat is a totally and completely false statement a lot of very independent researchers have researched and look into this. They concluded if they got rid of malpractice suits it would make up for less than 3% of American health care costs.

Yea, this thread had nothing to do with doctors insurance.
If a doctor screwed up my knee surgery I might have wanted to do something about that.
If I hurt myself skiing all on my own, then that's my own fault. Be it park or not.

Well, threads drift. Your input is appreciated.

DominatorJacquesYea, this thread had nothing to do with doctors insurance.
If a doctor screwed up my knee surgery I might have wanted to do something about that.
If I hurt myself skiing all on my own, then that's my own fault. Be it park or not.

Well, threads drift. Your input is appreciated.

That was a very passive aggressive post we're talking about lawsuits this all falls under the same category. And we don't know the details of what actually happened, from what I read that guy got insanely messed up from that jump, and it could have been the mountains fult.

nocturnalThat was a very passive aggressive post we're talking about lawsuits this all falls under the same category. And we don't know the details of what actually happened, from what I read that guy got insanely messed up from that jump, and it could have been the mountains fult.

It's not the Mt.'s fault! Did you read the sign! There are big signs at all the park entrances.

BTW I did not dis anyone here. I said I appreciated you input and that threads drift.

It's all good!

DominatorJacquesIt's not the Mt.'s fault! Did you read the sign! There are big signs at all the park entrances.

BTW I did not dis anyone here. I said I appreciated you input and that threads drift.

It's all good!

There are a thousand and one different ways a ski mountain can be held liable for injury. IANAL but I know quite a bit more than the average person on this topic.

nocturnalThere are a thousand and one different ways a ski mountain can be held liable for injury. IANAL but I know quite a bit more than the average person on this topic.

Are you like totally a lawyer dude? #suits

nocturnalThat was a very passive aggressive post we're talking about lawsuits this all falls under the same category. And we don't know the details of what actually happened, from what I read that guy got insanely messed up from that jump, and it could have been the mountains fult.

I have a good idea of what feature it was: it was like a road gap type feature where it was a totally flat takeoff with a 5-6 ft drop and you aired over the width of a cattrack to the SUUUUUPER long landing. It was actually really fun and super easy to stop once you saw that you werent going to clear. normal cruising speed(of an average skier) was all the speed that was needed to clear it.

what likely happened is this guy skied up to it, saw it was a drop, went to stop and crossed his tips falling off the end awkwardly. it could have also been braille visibility at the time. Point it is, people need to take responsibility for their own safety- if you cannot see dont go fast. If you arent hitting jumps and rails, dont go in the park. if you cant ski steep cliffy terrain, dont go past the skull and crossbones signs.


Frankly, it sucks to pay for injuries, but this is another example of a gaper acting like a lemming and fucking himself up by his own lack of skill/common sense.

Ammmmeerrrricccaaaaaaaaa

californiagrownI have a good idea of what feature it was: it was like a road gap type feature where it was a totally flat takeoff with a 5-6 ft drop and you aired over the width of a cattrack to the SUUUUUPER long landing. It was actually really fun and super easy to stop once you saw that you werent going to clear. normal cruising speed(of an average skier) was all the speed that was needed to clear it.

what likely happened is this guy skied up to it, saw it was a drop, went to stop and crossed his tips falling off the end awkwardly. it could have also been braille visibility at the time. Point it is, people need to take responsibility for their own safety- if you cannot see dont go fast. If you arent hitting jumps and rails, dont go in the park. if you cant ski steep cliffy terrain, dont go past the skull and crossbones signs.


Frankly, it sucks to pay for injuries, but this is another example of a gaper acting like a lemming and fucking himself up by his own lack of skill/common sense.

Amen brother!

S.J.WAre you like totally a lawyer dude? #suits

I wasn't aware that to understand anything about American law torts and personal injurie cases I had to pass the bar. As usual you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Most of this stuff is covered in very basic undergrad classes if you choice to take them.

Just stick to the things you're good at like thinking Putin has evidence that 911 was an inside job. I'm never going to let you live that down.

nocturnalThere are a thousand and one different ways a ski mountain can be held liable for injury. IANAL but I know quite a bit more than the average person on this topic.

nocturnalI wasn't aware that to understand anything about American law torts and personal injurie cases I had to pass the bar. As usual you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Most of this stuff is covered in very basic undergrad classes if you choice to take them.

Just stick to the things you're good at like thinking Putin has evidence that 911 was an inside job. I'm never going to let you live that down.

Now in this case if anyone was killed or injuried it would have been grounds for a suit.

http://www.ktvz.com/news/empty-chair-plunges-off-mt-bachelor-ski-lift/32078340

nocturnalI wasn't aware that to understand anything about American law torts and personal injurie cases I had to pass the bar. As usual you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Most of this stuff is covered in very basic undergrad classes if you choice to take them.

Just stick to the things you're good at like thinking Putin has evidence that 911 was an inside job. I'm never going to let you live that down.

Can I totally hire you as my lawyer? Applicable grammar not needed.

S.J.WCan I totally hire you as my lawyer? Applicable grammar not needed.

You couldn't afford it.

nocturnalYou couldn't afford it.

Do I also have to pay for your ESL classes?

nocturnalANAL

.

S.J.WDo I also have to pay for your ESL classes?

2/10 repetitive insult try again.