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Louisiana theatre shooting

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corona
Posts: 12754 - Karma: 32,301
First off, terrible tragedy. Sucks that this happened.

Second, for those thinking the world is a better and safer place if people are packing heat, how exactly would people carrying on their person in that theatre have made the outcome better?

Third, how many people WERE carrying? This is Louisiana. One could easily assume at least a handful of people actually had firearms on them in the theatre when this happened. Why was this not effective?

Fourth thought.. would the situation have turned out worse (ie more casualties) had someone who was carrying opened fire on the assailant?
Jul 24 2015 9:17AM
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ndye
Posts: 3756 - Karma: 7,088
1) definitely agree

2) Someone who acted intelligently while packing heat may have been able to stop it, hard to tell.

3) I got to imagine like everyone.

4) Again hard to tell, something like this is hard to speculate about.
Jul 24 2015 9:42AM
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jason...
Posts: 9006 - Karma: 780
ndye2) Someone who acted intelligently while packing heat may have been able to stop it, hard to tell.


unfortunately it doesn't appear many intelligent people pack heat in public.
Jul 24 2015 9:44AM
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ndye
Posts: 3756 - Karma: 7,088
jason...unfortunately it doesn't appear many intelligent people pack heat in public.


I would refute that with an example of myself when in northern Maine.
Jul 24 2015 9:51AM
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theBearJew
Posts: 10951 - Karma: 15,633
It was pretty crazy to read this story this morning. Last night I went to the movies to see Trainwreck, the movie that was being shown in the Louisiana shooting. I seriously considerd carrying to the movies last night. I don't usually think about that when I go but for some reason I really contemplated it last night.

Then this morning I read this shit and my fear of that happening is confirmed. If I did carry last night and if I was in that theater I like to think I would have tried to return fire if I had a chance to stop the shooter. I also could just have easily been one of the two people he shot in the head first and my gun would have done nothing.

It's crazy to think that you can't even feel safe in a movie theater. I have my concealed permit, not talking about open carry.
Jul 24 2015 2:24PM
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las.
Posts: 1959 - Karma: 1,455
Inb4 some cretin says if the victims had guns this wouldn't have happened. Guns are the problem, not the solution
Jul 25 2015 1:26AM
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PeppermillReno
Posts: 4751 - Karma: -560
ndye1) definitely agree

2) Someone who acted intelligently while packing heat may have been able to stop it, hard to tell.

3) I got to imagine like everyone.

4) Again hard to tell, something like this is hard to speculate about.


this...



Awful incident best to those involved but shit like this makes everyone uneasy no cause or anything.
Jul 25 2015 2:27AM
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PeppermillReno
Posts: 4751 - Karma: -560
las.Inb4 some cretin says if the victims had guns this wouldn't have happened. Guns are the problem, not the solution


No they are the solitoin of we tweak our shit to make sure no stupid sped ass mo fos get a chance to carry or own a firearm.


Just make that privilage immediately revocable when people do dumb shit and owning a firearm will be treated like a privilege and not a right. Boom most of the problems will be solved them.
Jul 25 2015 2:29AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6641 - Karma: 10,554
PeppermillRenoNo they are the solitoin of we tweak our shit to make sure no stupid sped ass mo fos get a chance to carry or own a firearm.


Just make that privilage immediately revocable when people do dumb shit and owning a firearm will be treated like a privilege and not a right. Boom most of the problems will be solved them.


They are definitely not the main solution to the problem of this tragedy. This tragedy is the result of many factors, one of which is gun control. Sure if we took all guns away that would be one way to do it, but that is not in the least bit realistic in the USA. People simply love their guns too much and use the 2nd amendment to justify that love and want.

What there should be, in any developed nation that hopes to keep its citizens safe while it lets them have their civil liberties, is to have more strict gun controls especially after the initial sale of the gun. Yearly mental health checks and yearly gun safety operational checks would be a good start in helping to ensure that yes you can own a gun but you need to demonstrate that you are fit to do so and know how to properly own a gun.
Jul 25 2015 5:03AM
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Rusticles
Posts: 2179 - Karma: 1,334
las.Inb4 some cretin says if the victims had guns this wouldn't have happened. Guns are the problem, not the solution


I'm no gun nut, and I somewhat agree that guns are the problem to some degree. However I'd say mental health is the real problem common in all these cases
Jul 25 2015 11:19AM
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S.J.W
Posts: 7609 - Karma: 31,182
RusticlesI'm no gun nut, and I somewhat agree that guns are the problem to some degree. However I'd say mental health is the real problem common in all these cases


And what if those with mental health problems couldn't get a gun? In Switzerland every male must undergo military training and if they fail for any reason they don't get to own a gun. This includes a mental health analys. Switzerland homes have around 25% of any type of firearm in their home. Compared to 42% of the US.
Jul 25 2015 11:36AM
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iFlip
Posts: 4541 - Karma: 19,089
PeppermillRenoJust make that privilage immediately revocable when people do dumb shit and owning a firearm will be treated like a privilege and not a right.


Actually, it's not a privilege. It is a Constitutionally guaranteed Right.
Jul 25 2015 11:43AM
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Rusticles
Posts: 2179 - Karma: 1,334
S.J.WAnd what if those with mental health problems couldn't get a gun? In Switzerland every male must undergo military training and if they fail for any reason they don't get to own a gun. This includes a mental health analys. Switzerland homes have around 25% of any type of firearm in their home. Compared to 42% of the US.


I agree, better screeing for mental health issues. Also, more/better programs for mental health and less stigma around it. What kind of guns can you have in Switzerland? Are the magazines limited to 5 rounds?
Jul 25 2015 11:44AM
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S.J.W
Posts: 7609 - Karma: 31,182
RusticlesI agree, better screeing for mental health issues. Also, more/better programs for mental health and less stigma around it. What kind of guns can you have in Switzerland? Are the magazines limited to 5 rounds?

Switzerland's Weapons Law (WG, LArm)[8] and Weapons Act (WV, OArm)[9] has been revised to accede to the Schengen Treaty effective 12 December 2008.
The law is applied to the following weapons:

Firearms, such as pistols, revolvers, rifles, pump gun (Vorderschaftrepetierer), lever action rifles (lever action), self-loading guns (shotguns and rifles);
Air and C02 guns with muzzle energy of at least 7.5 joules, or if there is risk of confusion with a firearm;
Imitation, alarm gun (Schreckschuss) and soft-air guns when there is risk of confusion with a firearm;
Butterfly knives, throwing knives, knife-handed operation with automatic mechanism with total length greater than 12 cm and blade length greater than 5 cm;
Daggers with symmetrical blade is less than 30 cm;
Devices that are intended to hurt people like rod (Schlagrute), throwing star, brass knuckles, slings with armrest;
all electric shock devices and spray products with irritants in Annex 2 weapons Regulation (WV), except for pepper spray.
Generally prohibited arms are:

Automatic firearms such as machine guns, etc.
Automatic knife when the blade more than 5 cm and total length of more than 12 cm
Butterfly knife when the blade more than 5 cm and total length of more than 12 cm
Throwing knives; regardless of the shape and size
Symmetrical daggers when blade length less than 30 cm
Brass knuckles
Shock rods
Throwing Stars
Skidding with armrest
Stun guns
Weapons that imitate an object of utility as shooting phones, etc.
Jul 25 2015 11:53AM
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qazwsxedc34
Posts: 2886 - Karma: 2,252
las.Inb4 some cretin says if the victims had guns this wouldn't have happened. Guns are the problem, not the solution


I disagree
Jul 25 2015 12:44PM
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PeppermillReno
Posts: 4751 - Karma: -560
iFlipActually, it's not a privilege. It is a Constitutionally guaranteed Right.


And there in lies the problem.

Driving a car is a privilege owning a gun is a right.


Fucked up disturbed people are being enabled to take innocent victims with them on their way out of this world.


Fucking up someones commute jumping in front of a train to end your life is no longer enough its exploit our weak gun control so that you can enflict your pathetic suffering on others and take people with you and get attention and shame to your relatives when you leave this world in a cowardly manner.


Again just get them out of the hands of spedded out mofos you can easily disqualify most of these fucking idiots before they turn 18 if you automatically go around adding disturbed children to a list of people who can never own guns.


Its time to start taking that shit away from anyone who behaves in a certain manner.
Jul 25 2015 12:53PM
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qazwsxedc34
Posts: 2886 - Karma: 2,252
RusticlesI'm no gun nut, and I somewhat agree that guns are the problem to some degree. However I'd say mental health is the real problem common in all these cases


What could be the causation of mental health?
Jul 25 2015 12:54PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6641 - Karma: 10,554
RusticlesI'm no gun nut, and I somewhat agree that guns are the problem to some degree. However I'd say mental health is the real problem common in all these cases


CONAIR_BUSCEMIWhat could be the causation of mental health?


For this specific problem, the question shouldn't be "what could be the causation of mental health" but instead "how can we better identify individuals with mental health problems and ensure they cannot own deadly weapons?"
Jul 25 2015 12:59PM
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1337
Posts: 31039 - Karma: 29,013
I'm still waiting for the headline "Good guy with gun stops mass shooting....."

After this umteenth shooting in the past few years, I really think gun advocates need to pick a better angle.
Jul 25 2015 1:09PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,500
RusticlesHowever I'd say mental health is the real problem common in all these cases


And when thoes mental health people get a gun thats isnt an issue that needs fixing. Just more tharapy to male them better so they can then get a gun.....
Jul 25 2015 1:22PM
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Bombogenesis
Posts: 1984 - Karma: 4,006
las.Inb4 some cretin says if the victims had guns this wouldn't have happened. Guns are the problem, not the solution


Glad you don't live in our beautiful country. You'd be miserable :(
Jul 25 2015 1:32PM
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Bombogenesis
Posts: 1984 - Karma: 4,006
1337I'm still waiting for the headline "Good guy with gun stops mass shooting....."

After this umteenth shooting in the past few years, I really think gun advocates need to pick a better angle.


There have been multiple examples. Look them up...
Jul 25 2015 1:33PM
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Bombogenesis
Posts: 1984 - Karma: 4,006
I like you jamie, so I'll be nice and post a couple

http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/170254/how-assistant-principal-gun-stopped-school-shooter-daniel-greenfield

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/10-potential-mass-shootings-that-were-stopped-by-someone-wit#.cqPwWw48BD
Jul 25 2015 1:35PM
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ImNotARacist
Posts: 5136 - Karma: -1,032
1337I'm still waiting for the headline "Good guy with gun stops mass shooting....."

After this umteenth shooting in the past few years, I really think gun advocates need to pick a better angle.


http://www.businessinsider.com/uber-driver-with-concealed-handgun-prevents-mass-shooting-in-chicago-2015-4
Jul 25 2015 1:35PM
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JAHpow
Posts: 7282 - Karma: 17,169
1337I'm still waiting for the headline "Good guy with gun stops mass shooting....."

After this umteenth shooting in the past few years, I really think gun advocates need to pick a better angle.


If you looked up crime stoppage from concealed carry I think you would be surprised at the amount. The mainstream media just doesn't want to report on that stuff. They only want to report when people have died.
Jul 25 2015 1:36PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,500
DlCKhttp://www.businessinsider.com/uber-driver-with-concealed-handgun-prevents-mass-shooting-in-chicago-2015-4


The gun wasn't the solution, an Uber driver was the solution.
Jul 25 2015 1:41PM
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ImNotARacist
Posts: 5136 - Karma: -1,032
nocturnalThe gun wasn't the solution, an Uber driver was the solution.


Now use that same logic in regards to the shooter.

What was the Uber driver going to do w/o a gun? Throw pennies?
Jul 25 2015 1:44PM
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Rusticles
Posts: 2179 - Karma: 1,334
CONAIR_BUSCEMIWhat could be the causation of mental health?


That's a whole other thread haha

onenerdykidFor this specific problem, the question shouldn't be "what could be the causation of mental health" but instead "how can we better identify individuals with mental health problems and ensure they cannot own deadly weapons?"


Definitely, Hate to say it, but stricter gun laws are needed. I don't live in the U.S. But just from visiting this site It sounds like its redicoulously easy to get your hands on an AR 15 with a 30 round mag. I know that this is going to piss off the gun nuts but I don't think a magazine with more than 5 rounds should be allowed, however I don't really know how banning them would work now that they're common place.

Still love to take the OL CZ out to the sand pit and blast off a few 25 round magazines haha.
Jul 25 2015 2:05PM
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Rusticles
Posts: 2179 - Karma: 1,334
nocturnalAnd when thoes mental health people get a gun thats isnt an issue that needs fixing. Just more tharapy to male them better so they can then get a gun.....


Yeah, or eliminate the causes of mental health issues, I don't know if we know enough about mental health issues to really know what the best solution would be.

With the population boom maybe we just need to accept that there are going to be more people with more extreme cases of mental breakdowns just based on the numbers
Jul 25 2015 2:10PM
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Rusticles
Posts: 2179 - Karma: 1,334
I know everyone probably saw this vid in the gun thread but this pretty much sums it up for anyone who hasn't seen this.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HZFLk5L70MQ
Jul 25 2015 2:18PM
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S.J.W
Posts: 7609 - Karma: 31,182
BombogenesisI like you jamie, so I'll be nice and post a couple

http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/170254/how-assistant-principal-gun-stopped-school-shooter-daniel-greenfield

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/10-potential-mass-shootings-that-were-stopped-by-someone-wit#.cqPwWw48BD


I'm just going to focus on some of those buzzfeed examples.

1. Pearl High. The shooting was already over when the principal grabbed the gun from his truck. Guns didn't help.

2. School dance. Again before any civilian pulled a gun. The shooter had already finished.

3. Those weren't your regular concealed carry civilians. They were former and current law enforcement officers. And again, the shooter was out of ammo.

4. Again, not a civilian. But rather a secruit officer for the church and a former cop.

5. Again, not a regular civilian but a police officer.

6. First normal permit holding civilian on the list.

7. Again, off duty police officer.

8. So that makes two regular civilians stopping shootings.

9. Again off duty police officer.

Don't you see, these aren't your regular civilians who buy a gun and shoot it a gun range. These are profesionals, who are trained to deal with this type of shit.

If we look at statistics. 43% of Americans own some sort of gun. There are 11.1 million concealed carry permits in America. That's roughly on average 3% of people always have a gun on them at any time. If that's the case, shouldn't more shootings be stopped? Rather than just 9 shootings which were all stopped by a police officer who is off duty. Or has quit the force.???
Jul 25 2015 2:58PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,500
DlCKNow use that same logic in regards to the shooter.

What was the Uber driver going to do w/o a gun? Throw pennies?

Thaaaats the joke
Jul 25 2015 7:44PM
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270on420out
Posts: 7496 - Karma: 50,887
S.J.WI'm just going to focus on some of those buzzfeed examples.

1. Pearl High. The shooting was already over when the principal grabbed the gun from his truck. Guns didn't help.

2. School dance. Again before any civilian pulled a gun. The shooter had already finished.

3. Those weren't your regular concealed carry civilians. They were former and current law enforcement officers. And again, the shooter was out of ammo.

4. Again, not a civilian. But rather a secruit officer for the church and a former cop.

5. Again, not a regular civilian but a police officer.

6. First normal permit holding civilian on the list.

7. Again, off duty police officer.

8. So that makes two regular civilians stopping shootings.

9. Again off duty police officer.

Don't you see, these aren't your regular civilians who buy a gun and shoot it a gun range. These are profesionals, who are trained to deal with this type of shit.

If we look at statistics. 43% of Americans own some sort of gun. There are 11.1 million concealed carry permits in America. That's roughly on average 3% of people always have a gun on them at any time. If that's the case, shouldn't more shootings be stopped? Rather than just 9 shootings which were all stopped by a police officer who is off duty. Or has quit the force.???


I'm starting to like you more and more
Jul 25 2015 8:19PM
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las.
Posts: 1959 - Karma: 1,455
onenerdykidSure if we took all guns away that would be one way to do it, but that is not in the least bit realistic in the USA. People simply love their guns too much and use the 2nd amendment to justify that love and want.


Ahh yes, I forgot - that inalienable right for every man, woman and child to own at least one AR 15. Except, that amendment is entirely outdated, and was constructed at a time when the need for citizens to defend themselves against their government was a somewhat realistic possibility. And guns were limited to muskets. It just doesn't apply in modern society.
America is so far removed from reality, it's insane. This will just keep happening over and over again until the gun nuts give up their toys. Truthfully, what has a higher value: the right of citizens to own guns, or the lives of future mass shooting victims? I dunno - I feel like this current lunatic wouldn't have had the same kill count had he been throwing popcorn or something at the movie-goers. That's just me though - complete speculation obviously

Before the inevitable response, too, I understand guns will still exist and be used beside laws banning ownership. I'll put money on these shootings becoming far less commonplace, though
Jul 25 2015 11:00PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6641 - Karma: 10,554
las.Ahh yes, I forgot - that inalienable right for every man, woman and child to own at least one AR 15. Except, that amendment is entirely outdated, and was constructed at a time when the need for citizens to defend themselves against their government was a somewhat realistic possibility. And guns were limited to muskets. It just doesn't apply in modern society.
America is so far removed from reality, it's insane. This will just keep happening over and over again until the gun nuts give up their toys. Truthfully, what has a higher value: the right of citizens to own guns, or the lives of future mass shooting victims? I dunno - I feel like this current lunatic wouldn't have had the same kill count had he been throwing popcorn or something at the movie-goers. That's just me though - complete speculation obviously

Before the inevitable response, too, I understand guns will still exist and be used beside laws banning ownership. I'll put money on these shootings becoming far less commonplace, though


I've literally said the same exact thing in the other gun debate thread. I was merely pointing out that: 1. getting rid of all guns is currently not realistic and 2. people use the 2nd amendment to justify their desire for weapons. I was not saying that it is a good thing or that the amendment is 100% applicable to modern day life.

I don't think that a full on ban on any gun is needed though, as other countries have proven you can own guns and it not lead to the retarded consequences that we have now. These countries have stricter laws regulating the sale and after-the-sale ownership of guns and it only seems like the rational thing to do if you want to allow common citizens to own highly dangerous weapons.
Jul 26 2015 4:26AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6641 - Karma: 10,554
onenerdykidI don't think that a full on ban on any gun is needed though


whoops, that should say "I don't think that a full on ban on all guns is needed though"
Jul 26 2015 5:36AM
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las.
Posts: 1959 - Karma: 1,455
onenerdykidI've literally said the same exact thing in the other gun debate thread. I was merely pointing out that: 1. getting rid of all guns is currently not realistic and 2. people use the 2nd amendment to justify their desire for weapons. I was not saying that it is a good thing or that the amendment is 100% applicable to modern day life.

I don't think that a full on ban on any gun is needed though, as other countries have proven you can own guns and it not lead to the retarded consequences that we have now. These countries have stricter laws regulating the sale and after-the-sale ownership of guns and it only seems like the rational thing to do if you want to allow common citizens to own highly dangerous weapons.


What I said wasn't directed at you; more of just a general rant after reading through various headache-inducing comments. I know you're one of the more level-headed members
Jul 26 2015 7:41AM
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las.
Posts: 1959 - Karma: 1,455
I agree with what you've said, too, I should clarify
Jul 26 2015 7:45AM
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ImNotARacist
Posts: 5136 - Karma: -1,032
las.Ahh yes, I forgot - that inalienable right for every man, woman and child to own at least one AR 15. Except, that amendment is entirely outdated, and was constructed at a time when the need for citizens to defend themselves against their government was a somewhat realistic possibility. And guns were limited to muskets. It just doesn't apply in modern society.
America is so far removed from reality, it's insane. This will just keep happening over and over again until the gun nuts give up their toys. Truthfully, what has a higher value: the right of citizens to own guns, or the lives of future mass shooting victims? I dunno - I feel like this current lunatic wouldn't have had the same kill count had he been throwing popcorn or something at the movie-goers. That's just me though - complete speculation obviously

Before the inevitable response, too, I understand guns will still exist and be used beside laws banning ownership. I'll put money on these shootings becoming far less commonplace, though


The right for citizens to own guns has a much higher value.
Jul 26 2015 11:48AM
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Charlie_Kelly
Posts: 11953 - Karma: 12,294
Grandfathering in is my biggest problem. At least in NH you can "gift" a gun to someone in your immediate family and you dont have to reregister, ateast im pretty sure. This will ultimately lead to the state losing track of who owns the gun. Im pretty sure NH has a weird concealed carry law too, something to do with/without a permit/license.
Jul 26 2015 2:42PM
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Nikolaus
Posts: 863 - Karma: 995
but gun control is communist, right?!
Jul 26 2015 3:23PM
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SkiBum.
Posts: 3597 - Karma: 3,897
Fucking Obama voter right here.
Jul 26 2015 3:27PM
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Lonely
Posts: 6615 - Karma: 59,821
Concealed laws in mi are kinda weird...I can have my 6.5 inch tactical fold out on me completely legally..as long as it's in the open..I could have a Swiss army knife with a 3 inch blade in my pocket and that's illegal..since I'm "hiding it" I must have an intent to hurt someone. You're also not supposed to have 6 inch blades in a vechile. But, since my 6.5 inch blade also has a window breaker, I can legally keep it CONCEALED inside my car with no permit. And if you buy anything privately you do not have to be registered or checked. Everyone just buys guns from each other to bypass it.
Jul 26 2015 11:43PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51300 - Karma: 158,001
Missed everything by being off the internet. Kind of happy about that. Not even going to try to find out the deetz.
Jul 27 2015 12:26AM
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soulskier
Posts: 17806 - Karma: 3,826
LonelyAnd if you buy anything privately you do not have to be registered or checked. Everyone just buys guns from each other to bypass it.


We sure are an interesting state, aren't we?
Jul 27 2015 12:35AM
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Lonely
Posts: 6615 - Karma: 59,821
soulskierWe sure are an interesting state, aren't we?


Sure do haha. That knife has come in handy though. Had a kid pull a little 2 niche stiletto and act menacing at our local park. He didn't look so menacing after the 6.5 inches of carbon fiber and tempered steel was out. But honestly, that's the only time ive ever had to use that knife for anything accept for cutting open mail and packages with ski stuff.
Jul 27 2015 1:30AM
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Charlie_Kelly
Posts: 11953 - Karma: 12,294
LonelyAnd if you buy anything privately you do not have to be registered or checked. Everyone just buys guns from each other to bypass it.


I'm pretty sure most states are like this.
Jul 27 2015 8:36AM
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Lonely
Posts: 6615 - Karma: 59,821
Granite_StateI'm pretty sure most states are like this.


Yes they are..which is a issue..it leads to a lot of guns that have undocumented owners
Jul 27 2015 8:53AM
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.Hugo.
Posts: 17360 - Karma: 28,474
LonelyYes they are..which is a issue..it leads to a lot of guns that have undocumented owners


Its impossoble to regulate private sales though. If the buyer and seller dont want to document the sale no one would ever know.... the only people that would do it legally most likely already perform private sales in that manner
Jul 27 2015 8:57AM
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Lonely
Posts: 6615 - Karma: 59,821
.Hugo.Its impossoble to regulate private sales though. If the buyer and seller dont want to document the sale no one would ever know.... the only people that would do it legally most likely already perform private sales in that manner


I understand. It still is a problem that can't be fixed. Even if you were to ban outright private sales the could easily still go on. It would just be something, if caught, you could prosecute for maybe making it seem like less of a good idea
Jul 27 2015 9:06AM
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ImNotARacist
Posts: 5136 - Karma: -1,032
The 11-year-old was home alone when a vehicle entered the driveway. The individual knocked on all the doors and then forced entry into the residence, the Lapeer County Sheriff's Department said.
The child hid in a bedroom closet with a shotgun, police said. The bedroom and the closet were eventually forced open by the suspect.

The 11-year-old aimed the gun at the suspect and the suspect fled from the residence, police said, adding the child was not harmed during the incident.

"Her father is an avid hunter, she is familiar with weapons and inside that closet is where the gun case is," Detective sergeant Jason Parks said.
Jul 27 2015 12:20PM
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