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Need an upgrade from my T3i

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steezyjibber
Posts: 15967 - Karma: 11,016
What's up M&A,

I need some advice. Let me start by saying I'm no expert when it comes to the technical aspects of cameras & lenses, so I'm not even gonna pretend like I am. However, I have been making videos for about 7 years now, so I've come to learn a decent bit.

Right now I have a Canon T3i. I've had it for about a year, and it was the camera I chose to get on the DSLR train. I've learned a lot about it and what it can do, how to get the look I want, etc. I bought some lenses along the way too (50mm 1.8, Tokina 11-16, Rokinon 8mm, and more.)

Now, I would like to upgrade. I have the money and I feel like it's time.

Here are the three cameras I've been considering and researching over the last few months:

-Panasonic GH4
-Sony FS100
-Sony FS700

The GH4 has been extremely intriguing to me as of late. It's new and exciting. However, is it really that much of an upgrade from a T3i? Getting good audio out of it would still cost a ton of extra money, and I read an article that said if you don't care about 4K (which I really don't right now), you may as well get a GH3. Is that true or not true? I know the GH3 isn't really an upgrade...

The FS100 is a sick camera. The slow mo is awesome, the quality is great. However, the camera is about 3 years old. Kind of feels like I'd be buying yesterday's technology...

The FS700 is also super sick. The slow mo is absolutely incredible, built in ND filters among other things are a huge plus. However, it's just a damn expensive camera and I shouldn't be spending that much. And, it's about 2 years old. Still kind of feels like yesterday's technology...


A little more info & what I shoot:
A lot of skiing and a good amount of client work. So really everything. I love really cinematic looking stuff with shallow depth of field. Getting good slow mo is important to me. I never take photos. I'm trying to stay between $1500 and $3500 (give or take) for a camera body.

So I come to you NS - with the famous question.

What camera should I get? Is there one I'm missing? Is the answer in front of my nose? Any comments are greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Apr 14 2014 7:30PM
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JuliusJ
Posts: 3778 - Karma: 2,106
You don't shoot photos at all? Great, this is a huge plus for you. You can buy entirely manual focus lenses then. I would recommend looking at The Vintage Lenses Thread and the "ultimate guide to vintage glass" and just try to read up as much as you can. Buy a tele lens! You have your wide to medium stuff covered, get a long lens, theres a ton of older 70-200 ish range lenses that seem too be great optically.


As for cameras, I dont know as much but it seems that the Gh series is a huge upgrade quality-wise from your t3i. Seriously, best bang for your buck I would say is a Gh2 and really learn it. Slow mo, I don't think it is anywhere as close the sony FS100/700. It also seems like these cameras NEED a tripod, so look at investing in a decent one. Theres a few threads around, maybe someone knows a link to it.

I know this isn't directly what you are asking, but seems like it needs to be said.
Apr 14 2014 7:47PM
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steezyjibber
Posts: 15967 - Karma: 11,016
JuliusJYou don't shoot photos at all? Great, this is a huge plus for you. You can buy entirely manual focus lenses then. I would recommend looking at The Vintage Lenses Thread and the "ultimate guide to vintage glass" and just try to read up as much as you can. Buy a tele lens! You have your wide to medium stuff covered, get a long lens, theres a ton of older 70-200 ish range lenses that seem too be great optically.


As for cameras, I dont know as much but it seems that the Gh series is a huge upgrade quality-wise from your t3i. Seriously, best bang for your buck I would say is a Gh2 and really learn it. Slow mo, I don't think it is anywhere as close the sony FS100/700. It also seems like these cameras NEED a tripod, so look at investing in a decent one. Theres a few threads around, maybe someone knows a link to it.

I know this isn't directly what you are asking, but seems like it needs to be said.


Thank you for your reply sir, much appreciated. I'll definitely check out those threads!

I do actually have a couple other lenses I didn't mention. The 18-55 kit lens, and a 75-300 Canon EF lens that I actually do like.

I also do have a fairly nice Manfrotto tripod and a glidecam.
Apr 14 2014 7:56PM
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Michael_Thatcher
Posts: 523 - Karma: 3,469
What don't you like about the t3i? What would be your number one reason for wanting to upgrade?
Apr 14 2014 8:24PM
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JahLiam
Posts: 2321 - Karma: 7,823
If you're selling your t3i I might be interested
Apr 14 2014 8:40PM
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steezyjibber
Posts: 15967 - Karma: 11,016
Michael_ThatcherWhat don't you like about the t3i? What would be your number one reason for wanting to upgrade?


I would say the biggest reason is that I need a step up in quality. I feel like the three cameras I'm looking at will produce a much better, more professional, quality image. Am I right about that? I'm not entirely sure.

JahLiamIf you're selling your t3i I might be interested


I will probably be selling it locally but if I decide not to I will let you know.
Apr 14 2014 8:55PM
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steezyjibber
Posts: 15967 - Karma: 11,016
To add to my post above, the three cameras I'm looking at can do 1080p 60fps or more. The T3i can only do 720p 60fps. Which to me says better overall quality from the upgrades because of the ability to shoot 1080p when I really want to and need it.
Apr 14 2014 9:00PM
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nutz.
Posts: 3150 - Karma: 6,712
SteezyJibberI would say the biggest reason is that I need a step up in quality. I feel like the three cameras I'm looking at will produce a much better, more professional, quality image. Am I right about that? I'm not entirely sure.


Granted I don't know much about camera's either, but Gavin Rudy shoots exclusively on a t3i I believe, and his work's pretty great. It's definitely possible to produce quality images on a t3i from that standpoint at least.
Apr 14 2014 9:02PM
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steezyjibber
Posts: 15967 - Karma: 11,016
nutz.Granted I don't know much about camera's either, but Gavin Rudy shoots exclusively on a t3i I believe, and his work's pretty great. It's definitely possible to produce quality images on a t3i from that standpoint at least.


Yup, this is another thing. From time to time I see these really great videos, like Gavin's, that are filmed on a T3i. It is pretty rare to see though.
Apr 14 2014 9:09PM
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.qzyxya
Posts: 1479 - Karma: -26
Though you obviously can't change the resolution limit, buying better lenses can definitely give you better image quality, as well as tweaking the settings, getting the right lighting, etc. Don't know enough to say anything about other cameras you're be looking at but it definitely is possible to improve your current setup's quality. In summary your body isn't limiting you as much as your glass, aside from resolution (which you may value more who knows)
Apr 15 2014 12:12AM
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p.hawks
Posts: 2832 - Karma: 581
I would say invest in lenses, stabilization gear, audio stuff, and then focus on getting the best you can with your t3i. Get things that you can use on other cameras, so manual focus, preferably nikon mount (but nearly anything adapts to mirrorless). These can all have a huge impact on overall image quality. Then, once you have a full kit of gear that will last a long time, look for a new camera body with specific features that you want. That way, all you will need to do is buy a body, batteries, maybe lens adapters, and possibly memory cards (but you can sell the old ones).

If you have a full lens kit, so a few fast mid primes, nice wide angle, 70-200, and maybe something longer/some mid long primes, a nice tripod, a glidecam, etc. you will be all set to move to any system you want in the future. Want to try raw? Blackmagic/external recorder set up. Better slow mo? FS700/GH4 etc. I think building a whole kit now will help you more in the long run. Its not like t3i's are obsolete by a long shot, and for internet distribution, a lot of it boils down to things like this. Just something you may want to consider.
Apr 15 2014 1:01AM
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steezyjibber
Posts: 15967 - Karma: 11,016
.qzyxyaThough you obviously can't change the resolution limit, buying better lenses can definitely give you better image quality, as well as tweaking the settings, getting the right lighting, etc. Don't know enough to say anything about other cameras you're be looking at but it definitely is possible to improve your current setup's quality. In summary your body isn't limiting you as much as your glass, aside from resolution (which you may value more who knows)


Word. If you know of any T3i videos filmed with some excellent lenses, could you post them? It'd be super helpful. And yeah, I guess I do value resolution a lot.



p.hawksI would say invest in lenses, stabilization gear, audio stuff, and then focus on getting the best you can with your t3i. Get things that you can use on other cameras, so manual focus, preferably nikon mount (but nearly anything adapts to mirrorless). These can all have a huge impact on overall image quality. Then, once you have a full kit of gear that will last a long time, look for a new camera body with specific features that you want. That way, all you will need to do is buy a body, batteries, maybe lens adapters, and possibly memory cards (but you can sell the old ones).

If you have a full lens kit, so a few fast mid primes, nice wide angle, 70-200, and maybe something longer/some mid long primes, a nice tripod, a glidecam, etc. you will be all set to move to any system you want in the future. Want to try raw? Blackmagic/external recorder set up. Better slow mo? FS700/GH4 etc. I think building a whole kit now will help you more in the long run. Its not like t3i's are obsolete by a long shot, and for internet distribution, a lot of it boils down to things like this. Just something you may want to consider.



Thanks. Yeah, I do have experience with quality audio gear on my T3i. I've used a pre-amp, lavalier mics, shotgun mic, etc. I'm not in bad shape with stabilization -- I have a pretty nice tripod and a glidecam. My lenses aren't amazing but they're not awful...I guess?



I guess what I keep hearing is lenses, lenses, lenses. If anyone could point me in the direction of some real nice lenses to start looking at that can work on a T3i, GH4, or FS100, it would be helpful. Not interested in multi-thousand dollar lenses at the moment, though.
Apr 15 2014 12:51PM
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JuliusJ
Posts: 3778 - Karma: 2,106
SteezyJibberI guess what I keep hearing is lenses, lenses, lenses. If anyone could point me in the direction of some real nice lenses to start looking at that can work on a T3i, GH4, or FS100, it would be helpful. Not interested in multi-thousand dollar lenses at the moment, though.


Look at the threads I sent you. Seriously, it will maybe take an hour tops and you'll have a general idea for cheap, good, old lenses.
Apr 15 2014 2:43PM
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p.hawks
Posts: 2832 - Karma: 581
SteezyJibberThanks. Yeah, I do have experience with quality audio gear on my T3i. I've used a pre-amp, lavalier mics, shotgun mic, etc. I'm not in bad shape with stabilization -- I have a pretty nice tripod and a glidecam. My lenses aren't amazing but they're not awful...I guess?



I guess what I keep hearing is lenses, lenses, lenses. If anyone could point me in the direction of some real nice lenses to start looking at that can work on a T3i, GH4, or FS100, it would be helpful. Not interested in multi-thousand dollar lenses at the moment, though.


Oh, good to hear on the audio/stabilization stuff. For lenses, the tokina is the only one you listed really worth keeping, maybe the fisheye if you like it, but I've heard mixed reviews of the aps-c model. I would also trade the tokina for the same one in Nikon mount. Personal view has a thread on good cine lenses, like ones that don't breathe when focused. Otherwise I would get a set of Nikon/contax/Pentax/leica R primes. Try to get them all f2.8 or better, and if they have a 70-200 in the same series (I know Nikon does), get it as well. This will help with your footage matching between different shots, they all will have the same color cast/look/sharpness.
Apr 15 2014 3:50PM
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Ehh...
Posts: 1897 - Karma: 1,423
bump. Looking to grab some knowledge in this thread. Kinda in the same boat
Apr 17 2014 12:02AM
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mvf
Posts: 786 - Karma: 1,581
inb4 eheath comes and shits on you for upgrading for now reason.

But seriously it sounds like you should not upgrade your body yet...
Apr 17 2014 12:36AM
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dan_swagner
Posts: 351 - Karma: 680
if you want a more professional look I would pick the fs100 or fs700. its super 35mm sensor and ability to do 4:2:2 uncompressed output via hdmi will give you a lot better image quality and depth of field over the APS-C sensor in the t3i. the t3i only does 4:2:0.
the sony fs cameras have a lot more video settings like focus peaking and zebra, cine picture profiles and gamma. they will give you a much wider dynamic range and more to work with in color grading
Apr 17 2014 1:21AM
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dan_swagner
Posts: 351 - Karma: 680
if you want a more professional look I would pick the fs100 or fs700. its super 35mm sensor and ability to do 4:2:2 uncompressed output via hdmi will give you a lot better image quality and depth of field over the APS-C sensor in the t3i. the t3i only does 4:2:0.
the sony fs cameras have a lot more video settings like focus peaking and zebra, cine picture profiles and gamma. they will give you a much wider dynamic range and more to work with in color grading
Apr 17 2014 1:21AM
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cydwhit
Posts: 5065 - Karma: 42,823
I am just going to chime in and agree with the guys who are saying to invest in glass. It sounds like this body isn't really holding you back yet. If you just want to upgrade but don't have anything in mind I would say not to do it. Glass is waaaaaay more future proof than a body. Buy some quality lenses and shoot with the t3i until you have pushed it to the point that it is limiting you. By that point you will know what you want in your next camera and all the technology you are looking at will be way cheaper. A camera body you buy now will be pretty much obsolete in a few years, lenses not so much.
Apr 17 2014 1:31AM
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JuliusJ
Posts: 3778 - Karma: 2,106
cydwhitA camera body you buy now will be pretty much obsolete in a few years, lenses not so much.


Yup
Apr 17 2014 1:32AM
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VT_scratch
Posts: 8710 - Karma: 5,615
mvfinb4 eheath comes and shits on you for upgrading for now reason.

But seriously it sounds like you should not upgrade your body yet...


this is what I was thinking. can you post some of your work from your T3i? Are you shooting with settings that are producing great images? Or are you hoping a new setup will fix that for you? I'm looking to upgrade in a few months as well, but for me from a GH1. Gh4 is looking really interesting to me. Old manual nikon lenses on mirrorless cams are really tight!
Apr 17 2014 2:43PM
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Michael_Thatcher
Posts: 523 - Karma: 3,469
eheath is gonna kill you haha
Apr 17 2014 8:30PM
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steezyjibber
Posts: 15967 - Karma: 11,016
JuliusJLook at the threads I sent you. Seriously, it will maybe take an hour tops and you'll have a general idea for cheap, good, old lenses.


Will do, just need to find a little time to browse through it all.


p.hawksOh, good to hear on the audio/stabilization stuff. For lenses, the tokina is the only one you listed really worth keeping, maybe the fisheye if you like it, but I've heard mixed reviews of the aps-c model. I would also trade the tokina for the same one in Nikon mount. Personal view has a thread on good cine lenses, like ones that don't breathe when focused. Otherwise I would get a set of Nikon/contax/Pentax/leica R primes. Try to get them all f2.8 or better, and if they have a 70-200 in the same series (I know Nikon does), get it as well. This will help with your footage matching between different shots, they all will have the same color cast/look/sharpness.


Sounds like good advice. Thank you sir.

Rdwagner2if you want a more professional look I would pick the fs100 or fs700. its super 35mm sensor and ability to do 4:2:2 uncompressed output via hdmi will give you a lot better image quality and depth of field over the APS-C sensor in the t3i. the t3i only does 4:2:0.
the sony fs cameras have a lot more video settings like focus peaking and zebra, cine picture profiles and gamma. they will give you a much wider dynamic range and more to work with in color grading


Word, alright, this makes sense. Thanks man.


cydwhitI am just going to chime in and agree with the guys who are saying to invest in glass. It sounds like this body isn't really holding you back yet. If you just want to upgrade but don't have anything in mind I would say not to do it. Glass is waaaaaay more future proof than a body. Buy some quality lenses and shoot with the t3i until you have pushed it to the point that it is limiting you. By that point you will know what you want in your next camera and all the technology you are looking at will be way cheaper. A camera body you buy now will be pretty much obsolete in a few years, lenses not so much.


Gotcha. Honestly since everyone is saying buy glass, maybe I should just invest in a super nice lens and see if I'm happy with it on the 'ol T3i?


VT_scratchthis is what I was thinking. can you post some of your work from your T3i? Are you shooting with settings that are producing great images? Or are you hoping a new setup will fix that for you? I'm looking to upgrade in a few months as well, but for me from a GH1. Gh4 is looking really interesting to me. Old manual nikon lenses on mirrorless cams are really tight!



Yup, I'll post a new video in this thread on Sunday that I think will definitely show "where I'm at" with it right now.
Apr 18 2014 9:05AM
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steezyjibber
Posts: 15967 - Karma: 11,016
So here is the link to the video. I'd say this is definitely the best idea of where I'm at now:

https://www.newschoolers.com/watch/707797.0/Mike-Sweet----The-Four-Day-Project?c=11&o=10&t=6

I do know some shots are a little overxposed/underexposed/etc. and I am working to improve more and more, however I think most of the shots in that edit came out well.

Right now I'm thinking of keeping the T3i longer and getting some better lenses. The GH3/GH4 is still appealing though, because of the ability to do 1080p 60fps.
Apr 21 2014 6:34PM
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steezyjibber
Posts: 15967 - Karma: 11,016
CLICKABLE VIDEO LINK:

https://www.newschoolers.com/watch/707797.0/Mike-Sweet----The-Four-Day-Project?c=11&o=10&t=6
Apr 21 2014 6:35PM
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*Nickdel*
Posts: 2258 - Karma: 868
SteezyJibberSo here is the link to the video. I'd say this is definitely the best idea of where I'm at now:

https://www.newschoolers.com/watch/707797.0/Mike-Sweet----The-Four-Day-Project?c=11&o=10&t=6

I do know some shots are a little overxposed/underexposed/etc. and I am working to improve more and more, however I think most of the shots in that edit came out well.

Right now I'm thinking of keeping the T3i longer and getting some better lenses. The GH3/GH4 is still appealing though, because of the ability to do 1080p 60fps.


I think keeping the t3i is your best bet. You do have some nice shots in there but nothing really stuck out to me. Getting more lenses may help you more than a new body
Apr 21 2014 7:21PM
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steezyjibber
Posts: 15967 - Karma: 11,016
*Nickdel*I think keeping the t3i is your best bet. You do have some nice shots in there but nothing really stuck out to me. Getting more lenses may help you more than a new body


Thank you sir
Apr 21 2014 7:43PM
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Lou.
Posts: 1787 - Karma: 3,876
SteezyJibberCLICKABLE VIDEO LINK:

https://www.newschoolers.com/watch/707797.0/Mike-Sweet----The-Four-Day-Project?c=11&o=10&t=6


As nickdel said, from the looks of it you havent yet outgrown your t3i. Stick with that and continue investing in nicer lens and mics and glidecams and such.
Apr 21 2014 7:55PM
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