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Abortion

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Steamboiz
Posts: 343 - Karma: 2,525
A fetus becomes a citizen, recognized by the state, at birth. But even though the child is not a citizen while in the womb it still has rights, such as at 8 months the fetus has the right to life if the mother has not yet acted to get an abortion. So in this case the rights of the mother still outweigh the rights of the fetus because the mother is considered a citizen and has been for longer than the citizen. The woman’s rights are greater because even though the fetus has the potential for a future, there is no saying that the child would benefit mankind, and with a mother who would like to get an abortion, it is not likely that the child would be raised well.
The state will not allow abortions in certain cases because of different specific reasons. Firstly, if the woman’s decision to get an abortion is later than 8 months into the pregnancy, the service shall not be granted. Secondly, if the father of the fetus would like to keep the child and is in good standing to care for the child, the abortion shall not be granted to the woman, but she has no responsibilities tied to the child after birth. And Thirdly, if the fetus shows clear signs of being a child prodigy, it shall be considered a valuable human to society, and the abortion will not be granted to the woman. Also the fetus is considered a complete citizen of the United States as soon as it shows its sign of being a prodigy.
Even though at some point the fetus is considered a citizen with rights, there have been many time in the history of the United States where the rights of citizens have not been properly recognized or guaranteed. Because of this the woman’s rights shall be recognized and the fetuses will not be because one of the so called citizens have to make a sacrifice, and because the mother is more valuable at the time of pregnancy, and most women have logical reasons for wanting abortion that right shall be granted to her. The states role is to provide, regulate, and make decisions, on the topic of abortion.
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Apr 13 2014 10:54PM
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bfulmer
Posts: 3053 - Karma: 1,975
zzzskizzzYou can absolutely argue that

1. Until the late 19th century, the mainstream religious and philosophical tradition in the West was that a human fetus didn't acquire personhood until some point after conception but before birth.
2. We can argue about when that point is, but a logical milestone is the beginning of measurable brain-wave activity, roughly 25 weeks after conception. After all, brain death is now commonly accepted as marking life's end.

the question is not when does life begin, but when does that life become a human being?


1. derpity derp a derr
2. de derp de derp
3. durr durr durr


clearly, abortion is the best option for all mothers. de derp de derr

Apr 15 2014 7:56AM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,500
bfulmer1. derpity derp a derr
2. de derp de derp
3. durr durr durr


clearly, abortion is the best option for all mothers. de derp de derr



I never said that, and way to make an intellectual post with real meaning. If you're a 15-year-old pregnant girl, or just a 25-year-old girl who was not ready to have a baby, and doesn't want to go through the stress of having a baby. I one hundred percent believe you don't have to do it. That's just my belief if you have a different argument feel free to make it. Derp
Apr 15 2014 11:37AM
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Da_Buddha
Posts: 802 - Karma: 1,182
Apr 15 2014 11:38AM
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louie.mirags
Posts: 6015 - Karma: 5,028
louie.miragsIt may be murder to some of you but I agree with. Mostly because I've knocked up a trashy chick when I was in the military and she was fucking crazy. She convinced me that she was on birth control and it was ok to bust in her.Whoops.


Tl; dr: it's justifiable murder. Don't bust in chicks regardless of birth control. Don't fuck trashy chicks with baby fever.


El_Barto.God damn you suck


So, this poor chick should have went through with this pregnacy? And when I say poor I mean she has no financial backing from her family. She was in college on government money. I was making shit wages in the Navy as an E-3. It was a loveless relationship. It was her choice to have the abortion. I didn't make her make her, but that what I wanted too.

Fast forward 4 years and I'm about to graduate college. That would have never happen if I had to keep working to support her and the baby. I would be stuck living a shitty life in the military. I have multiple job opportunities that are awesome. She is hopefully suceeding in her goals as well. I never saw her again. But, you think we should have had the baby and it should have grown up with us taking turns raising it? That is no way for a kid to be raised.
Apr 15 2014 12:29PM
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alesssandra_g
Posts: 20 - Karma: -8
In the end, its the woman's decision. Sometimes shit happens and abortion is required ex. rape. Yes you could say that the fetus is a life and should be given the right to live, but in the end its the mothers decision.
Apr 15 2014 1:49PM
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boozer
Posts: 518 - Karma: 35,578
what's the difference between an aborted baby and a live baby? a live baby requires child support and is a fucking pain in the ass.... go abortion!
Apr 15 2014 2:12PM
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412.
Posts: 1050 - Karma: 247
Grouch did you get a a chick prego or what.
Apr 15 2014 4:22PM
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TheBigApple
Posts: 1169 - Karma: 488
If you have never been in such a position you shouldn't have an opinion.
Apr 15 2014 4:24PM
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ndye
Posts: 3756 - Karma: 7,088
Jacking off is like murdering millions of little people!
Apr 15 2014 4:47PM
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Steamboiz
Posts: 343 - Karma: 2,525
412.Grouch did you get a a chick prego or what.


Old essay Yung 412. Thought it was pretty good so I threw it up on here innat.
Apr 15 2014 5:56PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51263 - Karma: 157,455
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gZEox8Crwc
Apr 15 2014 6:12PM
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lamadelrey
Posts: 210 - Karma: 481
I live by this:

Your body. Your mind. Your right.

I cant believe its 2014 and people still are arguing over this. I agree with that pinkname who posted the nun qoute, if you cant properly take care of another human being then you shouldnt. One should always have a choice, and I reckon people who use the "girls shouldnt use abortion as a form of contraception" are derping hard. I cant even begin to understand how traumatic an abortion would be like, and the mere thought of women actually getting abortions because they couldnt be bothered with protection is so dumb.
I can only speak for myself, but if I wasnt ready to have a kid (financially or mentally) I wouldnt hesitate to get an abortion, and I think its every girl's right to have that option without the government telling her what she can or cant do.


Also Sarah Silverman made a pretty funny vid a while back where she compared the "the fetus is alive!!!1!" argument with the fact that sperm is considered alive too, so technically youre a murderer everytime you masturbate.
Apr 15 2014 6:19PM
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Utard
Posts: 2132 - Karma: 296
TheBigAppleIf you have never been in such a position you shouldn't have an opinion.


I've never been a legislator, therefore I shouldn't have opinions about laws.
I've never been to Canada, therefore I shouldn't have an opinion about Canada.
I've never been stabbed, therefore I shouldn't have an opinion about getting stabbed.
Apr 15 2014 8:46PM
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caderobinson
Posts: 1193 - Karma: 4,770
I am pro abortion but think the mother shouldn't just decide to go to abortion right away.

I mean say there is a women, who can barely pay for herself to live, and is really struggling to pay the bills. If she gets raped, its unfair to put her in a situation to bring a child into the world when she can't take care of the child. Thats unfair to the mother and child
Apr 15 2014 9:16PM
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412.
Posts: 1050 - Karma: 247
shredtheshireOld essay Yung 412. Thought it was pretty good so I threw it up on here innat.


Jah young boombclad ianiode everyday i deink da bombay and drink the ionide. SHABBBO it s 10:40 in PIXXBURG BUT THE IONIDOE SHABBBO 150
Apr 15 2014 10:40PM
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412.
Posts: 1050 - Karma: 247
shredtheshireOld essay Yung 412. Thought it was pretty good so I threw it up on here innat.


Jah young boombclad ianiode everyday i deink da bombay and drink the ionide. SHABBBO it s 10:40 in PIXXBURG BUT THE IONIDOE SHABBBO 150
Apr 15 2014 10:40PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51263 - Karma: 157,455
Abortion is wrong. Turn from your evil ways and repent of your sins.
Apr 15 2014 10:48PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,500
UtardI've never been a legislator, therefore I shouldn't have opinions about laws.
I've never been to Canada, therefore I shouldn't have an opinion about Canada.
I've never been stabbed, therefore I shouldn't have an opinion about getting stabbed.


You've never been to Canada so how can you have any validity, in your statement about how it is up there.

You can have opinions about laws but they're so complex and long, your opinion is probably misinformed and stupid.

You can absolutely have an opinion, about getting stabbed. But how can you tell someone what getting stabbed is like? Here what you should do, take a knife and put it through your neck. Then people will take your opinion much more seriously.
Apr 16 2014 12:01AM
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Utard
Posts: 2132 - Karma: 296
zzzskizzzYou've never been to Canada so how can you have any validity, in your statement about how it is up there.

You can have opinions about laws but they're so complex and long, your opinion is probably misinformed and stupid.

You can absolutely have an opinion, about getting stabbed. But how can you tell someone what getting stabbed is like? Here what you should do, take a knife and put it through your neck. Then people will take your opinion much more seriously.


That somebody who's actually experienced an event has a more valid opinion than somebody who's just speculating is a totally different claim than "If you have never been in such a position you shouldn't have an opinion."

Come on now, a member of a physics forum with an IQ of 141 should know this
Apr 16 2014 1:46AM
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paige.
Posts: 1930 - Karma: 907
Another problem with making abortion illegal is that these regulations are a very slippery slope. For instance multiple women have been charged with homicide after they miscarried. A miscarriage is already traumatic enough, my mother had a stillbirth and 25 years later is still affected by it. Imagine being forced to go through a trial after that and being vilified by your community?

For example this girl was 16 and could possibly face life in prison because the medical examiner found slight traces of cocaine in the stillborn baby's blood and decided that was the cause of death, despite no evidence that cocaine would have this effect and the UMBILICAL CORD BEING WRAPPED AROUND THE BABY'S NECK.
http://www.propublica.org/article/stillborn-child-charge-of-murder-and-disputed-case-law-on-fetal-harm
The article also mentions:
"Those who share such worries point to a report last year by the New York­–based National Advocates for Pregnant Women (NAPW) that documented hundreds of cases around the country in which women have been detained, arrested and sometimes convicted — on charges as serious as murder — for doing things while pregnant that authorities viewed as dangerous or harmful to their unborn child.
The definition of fetal harm in such cases has been broad: ... an Iowa woman was arrested and jailed after falling down the stairs and suffering a miscarriage; a New Jersey woman who refused to sign a preauthorization for a cesarean section didn’t end up needing the operation, yet was charged with child endangerment and lost custody of her baby."
It's important to note that in many of these cases there wasn't even a miscarriage - the kid came out fine and the women are still getting arrested.

Apparently Utah is looking to pass a law where a woman is criminally responsible for the loss of her child if she does anything that could be considered intentionally dangerous - this article specifically mentions skiing or walking on an icy sidewalk as qualifying as intentionally dangerous activities.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/utah-women-may-face-murder-charges-after-miscarriages-1913019.html
Apr 16 2014 2:34AM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,500
UtardThat somebody who's actually experienced an event has a more valid opinion than somebody who's just speculating is a totally different claim than "If you have never been in such a position you shouldn't have an opinion."

Come on now, a member of a physics forum with an IQ of 141 should know this


Again you can make an opinion, but there's no way you can make an educated informed decision on it, if you haven't looked at it from all sides. Especially with abortion religious people have an extreme biased when trying to form their opinion. I don't understand why this is such a hard concept for you to wrap your head around. You can have an opinion on anything that doesn't make it a good one.
Apr 16 2014 10:02AM
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Steamboiz
Posts: 343 - Karma: 2,525
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK0s2VN_R44
Apr 16 2014 10:50AM
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Utard
Posts: 2132 - Karma: 296
zzzskizzzAgain you can make an opinion, but there's no way you can make an educated informed decision on it, if you haven't looked at it from all sides. Especially with abortion religious people have an extreme biased when trying to form their opinion. I don't understand why this is such a hard concept for you to wrap your head around. You can have an opinion on anything that doesn't make it a good one.


I don't know who you think you're arguing against here? The original post I was calling out claimed that unless you've been in the position of having to decide whether to get an abortion, you shouldn't have an opinion about abortion. You and I both agree that statement is bullshit. Nobody here is arguing that experience doesn't increase the validity of an opinion, nobody here is arguing that you can have a good opinion about something without looking at it from multiple points of view, and nobody here is arguing that all possible opinions are valid. Is your reading comprehension really this bad?
Apr 16 2014 4:20PM
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broto
Posts: 9039 - Karma: 25,659
i personally think that abortion can be a really selfless thing to do - sacrificing your emotional stability for your unborn child's. many pro-lifers who are so because of religious affiliation (i'm not saying anone here fits that description)fail to recognize the consequences on the child. even if you're pro-life, i think it's important to realize that each and every situation is unique and a single law shouldn't embody them all. it should be left up to the woman. period. it's her child, her body, her mind that has to deal with the consequences.

i'm also a firm believer in "the more things outlawed the more outlaws run." outlaw abortion and people will still find ways to do it. but it'll be less regulated, less safe, more expensive, and more risky. the last thing a woman seeking an abortion needs is a higher chance of it not working, a drain on her finances, etc. they will only exacerbate (hehe) the problems that most likely convinced her to go the route of an abortion anyways.

however, an area where i am pinned is the fact that someone has to carry out these abortions. should we be forcing doctors to do things they don't believe in? things that may scar them for life? it's the same situation with assisted suicide and a very thin line.
Apr 16 2014 4:39PM
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Funkadelic
Posts: 1967 - Karma: 391
paige.For example this girl was 16 and could possibly face life in prison because the medical examiner found slight traces of cocaine in the stillborn baby's blood and decided that was the cause of death, despite no evidence that cocaine would have this effect and the UMBILICAL CORD BEING WRAPPED AROUND THE BABY'S NECK.


I know this has absolutely nothing to do with your argument, but if a woman does drugs while pregnant she deserves to face charges, regardless of if the baby died of the umbilical cord being wrapped around its neck or not. If cocaine is found in a baby's bloodstream after birth the mother should be in prison and the child turned over to child services. In my opinion. That is beyond selfish.
Apr 16 2014 4:44PM
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Petey.
Posts: 5736 - Karma: 4,881
Well, the Earth's resources are thought to be able to sustain a global population of around 4 billion people. We have over 7 billion people and it's growing exponentially every day. So yeah, I'm fine with abortion.
Apr 16 2014 6:17PM
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SFB
Posts: 8895 - Karma: 26,347
i think we should be able to abort children up until they are 5 years old.
Apr 16 2014 6:20PM
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--ski--
Posts: 1670 - Karma: 817
SFBi think we should be able to abort children up until they are 5 years old.


I don't know. There's probably more humane ways to get rid of your unwanted five year-old. Maybe give him a few pointy sticks, a box of matches and drop him off in the wilderness to fend for himself?
Apr 16 2014 6:31PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,500
UtardI don't know who you think you're arguing against here? The original post I was calling out claimed that unless you've been in the position of having to decide whether to get an abortion, you shouldn't have an opinion about abortion. You and I both agree that statement is bullshit. Nobody here is arguing that experience doesn't increase the validity of an opinion, nobody here is arguing that you can have a good opinion about something without looking at it from multiple points of view, and nobody here is arguing that all possible opinions are valid. Is your reading comprehension really this bad?

Didn't read the original post that you quoted just pointing out you realize that there are people in Washington whose opinions change this law and make it possible or not. You can have an opinion on a certain topic but if you haven't experienced it or look at it from all sides you shouldn't really be voicing and you can make an opinion but it shouldn't be an opinion that will affect the outcome. If that doesn't make any sense to you and Then I guess I don't understand what you're trying to say.
Apr 17 2014 2:04AM
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Spiri7o
Posts: 2163 - Karma: 1,100
"I am pro abortion" - Daniel Tosh
Apr 17 2014 11:42AM
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SkiBum.
Posts: 3597 - Karma: 3,895
I am sure hardly anyone on this site has had to go through with the decision.

Once there is the decision, and issue at hand, your views change, you mind set changes. Who knows what way, who cares.

But you can talk whatever you want how and have your views now, but once it happens, that can all change.
Apr 17 2014 12:18PM
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Heart
Posts: 6156 - Karma: 3,462
Abortion keeps unwanted children from being born and lowers crime rates.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legalized_abortion_and_crime_effect
Apr 17 2014 12:32PM
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jaythemans
Posts: 243 - Karma: 57
El_Barto.Abortion is fucked. Life begins at conception. Any abortion is murder of a human life.

You cant argue that life does not begin at conception. It is fact


Using that logic then the Plan B pill is also abortion. Do you believe that?
Apr 17 2014 1:02PM
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louie.mirags
Posts: 6015 - Karma: 5,028
SkiBum.I am sure hardly anyone on this site has had to go through with the decision.

Once there is the decision, and issue at hand, your views change, you mind set changes. Who knows what way, who cares.

But you can talk whatever you want how and have your views now, but once it happens, that can all change.


Find my post for my story
Apr 17 2014 1:06PM
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lamadelrey
Posts: 210 - Karma: 481
Since I havent had time to investigate how this new NS system of embedding/quoting is working I doubt this will work, heres the link:

http://youtu.be/ahdR6aHQvMQ?t=3m14s

Watch the whole thing if you want (I know alot of people dislike Sarah Silverman, but this is pretty funny AND informative), but at 3.14 the part I was refering to above starts.
Apr 17 2014 2:03PM
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SkiBum.
Posts: 3597 - Karma: 3,895
louie.miragsFind my post for my story


I am not reading any stories or getting involved any further. I don't want to read up anymore or have any other opinions in my mind. I know what I am doing Monday. I know what my girl is doing Monday.

This past week has been rough.

I could care less anyone's opinions, because once it happens, and you have the option, it all changes.
Apr 17 2014 3:10PM
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louie.mirags
Posts: 6015 - Karma: 5,028
SkiBum.I am not reading any stories or getting involved any further. I don't want to read up anymore or have any other opinions in my mind. I know what I am doing Monday. I know what my girl is doing Monday.

This past week has been rough.

I could care less anyone's opinions, because once it happens, and you have the option, it all changes.


I hear ya man. My story was an abortion one and now 4 years later...
Apr 17 2014 3:19PM
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VT_FLO
Posts: 3806 - Karma: 147
Lol, my girlfriend and I had a pregnancy scare and she got all mad at me for not saying immediately that I wanted to keep a baby and support it blablabla I'm so horrible for even considering an abortion. Fast forward 24 hours when I had thought through how my life would go and I said "I know that we wouldnt be able to follow our dreams and we would both have to settle for careers that we didn't want but I would do this if we had a baby and we would struggle with our families and have help." 10 minutes later "well maybe I would have an abortion." Then she got her period.

women be fickle.
Apr 17 2014 3:21PM
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papermache
Posts: 1096 - Karma: 616
If an abortion is murder then a blow job is cannibalism
Apr 17 2014 6:49PM
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AT-AT
Posts: 3281 - Karma: 3,256
papermacheIf an abortion is murder then a blow job is cannibalism


Only if the miss is kind enough to swallow.
Apr 18 2014 4:58PM
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Clameltoe
Posts: 108 - Karma: 248
its as if people don't think they could get pregnant from sex. theres consequences for everything, deal with it. Abortion is just the easy way out.
Apr 21 2014 1:44PM
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louie.mirags
Posts: 6015 - Karma: 5,028
Clameltoeits as if people don't think they could get pregnant from sex. theres consequences for everything, deal with it. Abortion is just the easy way out.


So raising a baby when you're not ready financially or monetarily is better than aborting. LoL
Apr 21 2014 7:37PM
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louie.mirags
Posts: 6015 - Karma: 5,028
louie.miragsSo raising a baby when you're not ready financially or monetarily is better than aborting. LoL


Whoops I meant financially or mentally
Apr 21 2014 7:49PM
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Wallisch_pl
Posts: 5260 - Karma: 1,022
Yes.
Apr 21 2014 8:25PM
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broto
Posts: 9039 - Karma: 25,659
Legit opinion question: how much of a role should the father have in deciding whether an abortion is the right thing to do?
Apr 21 2014 10:38PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51263 - Karma: 157,455
brotoLegit opinion question: how much of a role should the father have in deciding whether an abortion is the right thing to do?


More than he has now. A woman can keep the baby even if the father doesn't want to, and ends up getting stuck with child support for the woman. If a man wants her to keep the baby desperately and is willing to take care of it on his own she can still abort it.

There's the "It takes two to tango" and then there's the "It's my body fuck yo couch". IMO you can't have it both ways.
Apr 22 2014 1:55AM
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Utard
Posts: 2132 - Karma: 296
brotoLegit opinion question: how much of a role should the father have in deciding whether an abortion is the right thing to do?


Legally? None. It's not his vagina that's getting ripped open by a screaming 8 pound bag of puke and shit
Apr 22 2014 2:07AM
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iH8pow
Posts: 1728 - Karma: 7,211
The first two responses were perfect. The rest of this thread is just banter.
\end thread
Apr 22 2014 5:11AM
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AT-AT
Posts: 3281 - Karma: 3,256
theabortionatorMore than he has now. A woman can keep the baby even if the father doesn't want to, and ends up getting stuck with child support for the woman. If a man wants her to keep the baby desperately and is willing to take care of it on his own she can still abort it.

There's the "It takes two to tango" and then there's the "It's my body fuck yo couch". IMO you can't have it both ways.


precisely this.
Apr 24 2014 12:35AM
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Da_Buddha
Posts: 802 - Karma: 1,182
Apr 24 2014 1:04AM
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