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Why College is Overrated

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cowofawesome
Posts: 201 - Karma: 549
Found this article pretty interesting. It's by Mike Rowe, the guy from Dirty Jobs and those stupid Ford commercials.


tl;dr: Trade schools are less expensive than college, and there are a lot of good paying jobs because everyone's hell-bent on getting college degrees.
Aug 30 2013 10:11PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10622 - Karma: 7,396
Click for larger image

Aug 31 2013 10:10PM
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Phil-X-
Posts: 7205 - Karma: 14,399
Well thats awkward.
Aug 31 2013 10:13PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10622 - Karma: 7,396
with good reason too it has more of an effect on others than you might think, you might not get a slot in college you wanted to get into because someone with all A's a 4.0 and converted to buddhism might take your place and get a major that in reality, is a waste of your money and time.
Aug 31 2013 10:16PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
What a horrible argument. It's not that person's fault they worked harder than you in high school and got better grades than you did. If you want to get into a school, make sure you have the qualifications to do so. There's something seriously wrong if your best argument for why you should be accepted to a college over someone else is that your major of choice will get you more money than someone else's major. Someone else having a different set of priorities than you doesn't mean that you deserve to go to a school more than they do. Again, what constitutes a "waste" of time and money is subjective, not objective.

Also, not that it's relevant, but there's nothing wrong with Buddhism. World would probably be a more peaceful place if there were more Buddhists in it.
Aug 31 2013 10:40PM
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Che~
Posts: 2108 - Karma: 296
I dropped out of college, now I am working as an apprentice for a carpenter. I absolutely love my job, there is a lot of job satisfaction, and I get to destroy and build shit all day. Every day is different, and I am learning a lot of useful things. And I get paid very well for a 20 year old with little experience in the field.
Aug 31 2013 10:58PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10622 - Karma: 7,396
^ nothing is wrong with buddhism its a joke.

also its a great argument because the point of college is to go and get a job and make money in ways that other people who for example did not go to college. not for an art major in which it depends on your talent not a degree.
Aug 31 2013 11:00PM
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joshua
Posts: 5046 - Karma: 1,280
Diploma then degree.
Aug 31 2013 11:03PM
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joshua
Posts: 5046 - Karma: 1,280
People go to college for a lot of reasons. I obviously expect to have a job that was worth 4 years of schooling when I'm done, however I also don't think that I would be the same person I am now if I hadn't gone to school. School teaches you to think critically, makes you smarter, etc., and that applies to almost all programs out there.

Even if I don't end up in the field I'm currently studying (Environmental Management) then I'll still be glad I went, simply for the personal development aspect. A college degree will help you succeed in far more ways then simply learning how to conduct specific tasks.

However I do think there are some programs that IN MY OPINION are not really worth the money and time. Don't pick something because its easy.
Aug 31 2013 11:19PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
Again, that's subjective, not objective.
Aug 31 2013 11:29PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10622 - Karma: 7,396
If your only argument is wordplay I pity you but ill play along.

>college
>objective- graduate in order to obtain a degree that will give you the ability to give you a job that you can not obtain without a degree.
> this seems objective to me.
Aug 31 2013 11:33PM
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C-Burg
Posts: 4729 - Karma: 130
That article had some points but college isn't overrated. The problem going on now is that the balance between people who go to college, go to trade school, and go straight into the labor force out of highschool is way off. There are just too many people going to college, which doesn't mean it is overrated. I think the big issue is there are too many people that view college as a 4 year party and then leave after 4-5 years with some bogus major that has no value and massive student debt because college loan money was spent on things other than college. We need to get back to a good balance in our work force because right now it is skewed.
Aug 31 2013 11:46PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
But...it's not, because for lots of people the primary motivation for going to college is to learn, not to get a job after.

You insist that the only reason people to go to college is to increase their career prospects once they graduate. In reality, this isn't so.
Aug 31 2013 11:48PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10622 - Karma: 7,396
well then why do most colleges cost 10-50k a year?

and what other reasons would people go to college?
Sep 1 2013 12:05AM
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roddy116
Posts: 10622 - Karma: 7,396
oh my bad to learn, but i would hope anyone with common sense would drop a solid tuition check in order to LEARN to get skills to get a job.
Sep 1 2013 12:10AM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
Because it costs a lot of money to maintain dorms, dining halls, etc. and the money has to come from somewhere, so, naturally, you have the people benefitting most from said dorms, dining halls, etc. pay.

to learn for the sake of learning
Sep 1 2013 12:13AM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
Again, (4th or 5th time now, i think) different people have different opinions. To you it makes no sense to spend money to learn something that won't eventually benefit you economically. To other people it does, and is worth it. Neither way of thinking is better than the other. Try and understand how someone can think something different than you, and it still be an acceptable, legitimate way of going through life.
Sep 1 2013 12:20AM
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roddy116
Posts: 10622 - Karma: 7,396
lol dude your incredibly retarded, even the missions of 99.9 percent of colleges is to help you get a job after you graduate. if the opinion of people is different for whatever reason ( i cant imagine why you would go to college and not just go read a book to learn) well thats fine, but the definitive point of college is to earn a degree and get a job.
Sep 1 2013 12:24AM
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BE..
Posts: 1185 - Karma: 81
to better understand the world around them?

Also, regarding your comment that "a degree in art is useless because art is based solely off of natural talent." That's bullshit and if you knew anything about art you would know that.

You seem to be under the assumption that everyone's goal in life is to get a job and make as much money as they can. That way of life is perfectly fine, but it's wrong to assume that it's for everyone. Some people don't care about money, they just want to study/ do something that interests them regardless of how valuable it is deemed by people like you. One person's choice to pursue a more creative degree has zero negative effects upon other people. If a person earns the right to a spot in a prestigious university, the have earned the right to study whatever the fuck they want to study. You can be against majoring in less useful subjects, but saying that those who choose to do so are hurting other students is just plain dumb.
Sep 1 2013 12:34AM
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BE..
Posts: 1185 - Karma: 81
99.9% is such a massive overstatement. Have you ever heard of a liberal arts college. While these schools don't completely forgo the whole "training for a job" part of college, they definitely don't focus on it.
Sep 1 2013 12:40AM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
It is easier to make a very good wage if you have a degree. It is also far easier to gain a position of power if you have a college degree.

There are exceptions to every rule, but a college degree opens far more doors to a good job.

Also, office work is underrated. it is something you can do till you are 100 years old, there is no risk of injury(people in trades-what happens if you badly blow your knee skiing and bending/squating becomes a serious issue for the rest of your life?), you work around women, and you have a very high ceiling for advancement.

Also, college is far more of a social education than anything else. beable to intelligently talk about damn near any subject matter, and being able to relate to the older generations college past(comes in handy when happy hour schmoozing managers/higher ups) is great.

Lastly, having a trade in a rural area, vs a metro area is a huge distinction. I think the two are essentially on equal footing in a more rural environment, with the trade even being better. But in a metro area, there are just so many more avenues to success if you have a college degree.

All these people that are killing it at a trade, are charasmatic, smart, hardworking people who would be even farther ahead if they had a degree to match.
Sep 1 2013 3:14AM
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Arabian
Posts: 667 - Karma: 880
College is useless. Any curriculum that does not encourage autodidacticism defeats the purpose of a degree in your field. We are consistently churning out a graduate student body of children who cannot help themselves, let alone function in a professional setting.


At least, that is what's happening in the sciences. I don't really care about the social sciences, humanities, or the arts. They are worthless as a degree and take up far too many resources.
Sep 1 2013 4:35AM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
Do you have numbers to show this? Or are you just making things up again? I searched three very different schools (private research university, small liberal arts college, public university) just to see what their mission statements looked like. None of them mentioned helping students getting the best job possible after graduation:



Sep 1 2013 8:28AM
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roddy116
Posts: 10622 - Karma: 7,396
if you take that literally i think it is fair to confirm that english is not your first language.

secondly its just common sense (which we all know by know you do not have any) that people go to college to gain the ability to get a job, teacher, doctor, nfl pro football player, scientist. if you are not going to college to try to gain knowledge for a job, than you shouldnt drop a few thousand a year and read a book instead and stop waisting your time.
Sep 1 2013 3:24PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
Says the guy insulting other people's English skills.

Sorry I took your argument literally. My bad. Should have assumed you were just saying things you didn't actually mean that are blatantly untrue and happen to back up your baseless argument in order to back up your baseless argument. Won't happen again, promise.

Fair enough about people going to college to gain knowledge and eventually using that knowledge to get a job. This brings us back to the original argument, which is how one defines what constitutes a "waste" of money on a college education. I'm sorry to say, but it's still a matter of opinion. If someone with all A's and a 4.0 gets into a college you don't and ends up majoring in religious studies and makes a 5 figure salary while you would major in finance, you can't objectively say it's unfair they got in over you because they "wasted" their time and money in college, while you would have used what you learned to one day make a 6 figure salary.
Sep 1 2013 3:59PM
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HamFaceGirl
Posts: 5242 - Karma: 2,677
I'm in college and it's awesome
Sep 1 2013 4:07PM
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Kooky_Lukey
Posts: 1002 - Karma: 1,966
What if I'm working hard and smart? Computer Science degree all the way... there will always be jobs in the computer field, but there will also always be labor jobs ie plumber electrician, carpenter etc.. just do what suits you best and you will be happy
Sep 1 2013 4:15PM
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panojibber.
Posts: 1041 - Karma: 683
I think one thing you're overlooking here is that paying 50k for a year of college is a distinctly american problem. In Canada you can attend school for about $13000 for a year. In some places in Europe it is almost free. I'm taking a music major and at the end of my 4 years I will probably not have any debt to pay off, simply because I have a good job lined up for the summers. If I do have any debt, it will probably be less than $5000.
Sep 1 2013 4:24PM
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LiquorLanch
Posts: 1909 - Karma: 1,046
THe price of college jumped when the government got into the loan game
Sep 1 2013 4:59PM
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Phil-X-
Posts: 7205 - Karma: 14,399
Grabbed the first picture in my newsfeed to clarify...

Click for larger image
Sep 1 2013 5:51PM
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rockersteez
Posts: 593 - Karma: 1,199
For sure. Another thing is that trade schools give you a specific set of skills for a job. A ton of people go to college to go to college and then just pick some random major/ maybe change it 3 times. It's funny when those people don't understand why their bullshit degree in nothing isn't getting them a 100k per year job.
Sep 1 2013 6:21PM
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METman
Posts: 21 - Karma: 79
Agreed. If you don't know with 100% certainty what you want to do for the rest of your life. Work, travel, take time and figure it out. Don't guess and waste a few hundred thousand dollars on a college degree you might realize you hate. School will be much more enjoyable and worth the money if you are truly passionate about what you are studying.


Sep 1 2013 6:26PM
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Willgum
Posts: 3254 - Karma: 3,071
I dont think you're actually listening to his argument. People go to college for a myriad of reasons, not just to increase their chances of getting a job(albeit that is one of them).

College can also serve as a way to better yourself, refine your values, meet people, discover what direction you want to take in life, AND increase your chances of getting a job.

If you do actually go to college and you still think it only serves one purpose, then I pity you for only getting a fraction out of what it offers
Sep 1 2013 6:33PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10622 - Karma: 7,396
All skills for your professional life. And it all serves one core purpose getting a degree.
Sep 1 2013 8:46PM
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Rusticles
Posts: 2179 - Karma: 1,334
The best advice I've proabably ever gotten came from two people when I was your age. I was in the exact same place you were and thought I was going to be either a heavy duty mechanic or an automotive mechanic. My father, a heavy duty mechanic himself told me "I'm only going to tell you this once so listen, don't do what I did be an electrician". Also, a drunk that worked at the auto shop that I worked at told me the same thing. I'm thirty now and damn glad I took the advice,

Instrument technician is also another good one.
Sep 1 2013 10:28PM
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Spinoza
Posts: 12763 - Karma: 3,844
There's sooooo much more to college/university than job training lol.
There's no way I would have the critical thinking skills and ability to argue rationally that I have without school. And don't try to tell me you can 'learn on the internet', it's just not true.


Oh and college is the most fun you'll ever have.

/Honours BA in Philosophy from UofT and would do it again
Sep 1 2013 10:44PM
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DGski
Posts: 3491 - Karma: 2,328
damn i'm thinking of majoring in philosophy.. is it interesting?

does it really help you with critical/communication skills like it says on every university site i read about philosophy??
Sep 1 2013 10:51PM
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Spinoza
Posts: 12763 - Karma: 3,844
Our culture brainwashes us this new idea that college is only useful for getting a business or engineering degree. They say you're screwed with an arts degree and you won't get a job. It's just not true. If you're capable you'll be hired. My friends with super reputable commerce degrees both say it's bogus. Yeah it'll get you the interview, but the job is on you. One of them is making 60k 2 years out and he told me he uses nothing from school at work, it was all learned on the job and he is making it because he's a smart and capable guy.
So many important things are missed by kids too afraid to learn them. There's more to life than being a robot.
Sep 1 2013 10:52PM
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Spinoza
Posts: 12763 - Karma: 3,844
It was the greatest decision I ever made. Even just the logic courses and the ability to make valid arguments make it worth it. Wiki formal logic.
Philosophy isn't a subject with content like history or art or economics, it's a skill, like a verb. It's training to think correctly and you then use that skill to apply to whatever field you're interested in. And to every practical decision you'll ever make.
Sep 1 2013 10:55PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10622 - Karma: 7,396
Its the highest unemployment after graduation with about 19% of graduates without a job if they are looking for one. also among the lowest payed post graduates.
Sep 1 2013 10:59PM
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Willgum
Posts: 3254 - Karma: 3,071
I took only a 101 course, and I thought it was bs... until one day I realized it changed the way I thought. Without noticing, it had made me more rational and cautious in my thinking. Id encourage anyone with at least an open spot in their schedule to take a philosophy course.

Also spinoza I agree with everything you posted ITT
Sep 1 2013 11:00PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10622 - Karma: 7,396
my bad film, photography, liberal arts are 11.4.
Sep 1 2013 11:04PM
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Phil-X-
Posts: 7205 - Karma: 14,399
You havent touched on the extra reason to attend a college that I brought up a few posts above.
Sep 1 2013 11:27PM
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motionmovement
Posts: 108 - Karma: 59
Statistically you are more likely to make more money with a college education. However, the college versus trade school should be decided on an individual basis.

I agree with the author in that every student shouldn't be pushed to college just because college graduates tend to make more money than blue collar workers. American culture definitely places a college education as preferential to trade school. I think it would be beneficial for the country to realize that going to trade school can be a good, lucrative career path for some people.

If everyone could do it, it'd be best to all go to college and become lawyers, doctors, and bankers yet not everyone can. Many Americans probably get sent down the college path only to end up as baristas making $30k/yr after 4 years of $40k+ tuition when they could have done a year of trade school and be on the path to making $100k+ a year as an electrician.

There is a high value to being an educated person that's hard to quantify. At the end of the day I'd rather be a barista who writes art exhibition critique on the weekend than an electrician who watches Dancing with the Stars re-runs every night.


Sep 1 2013 11:53PM
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paige.
Posts: 1930 - Karma: 907
I think this is a good point but applies to trade school as well. People act like you need to know what you want in life by the time you finish high school but few people actually do. Just as some people aren't suited to higher education, some aren't suited to trades and figuring that out ahead of time can save a lot of hastle. I also think that even if you are pretty confident in what you want you should still take most of the academic courses so that you don't need to revisit high school several years down the line if you change your mind.
I've seen far too many kids at my university piss away their parents money and skip all their classes. Several friends are realizing they don't want to go to med school when it's all they've worked towards over the last 4 years. Those who went into trades seem to have hit 24 and simmultaniously decided to go back to school - and as a result now need to upgrade high school classes they swore they would never need before they can start studying what they want.
Sep 2 2013 3:30AM
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JabbedTick
Posts: 2 - Karma: 9
First is because college education is expensive in America, secondly is that they request students to do alot of research papers for their homework. This can be very stressful to students to have to deal with topic that may not be readily available in the internet. College research papers are stressful to students.
Sep 2 2013 10:16AM
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