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Instructor Gap courses

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sambob
Posts: 73 - Karma: 187
Hi again people, you may have read my previous post about doing my level 1 BASI, well now i'm looking for people who have done a gap course, as i'm looking into doing the CSIA level 1 & 2 11 week course in Banff,

Why Banff? Because its the best resort i've even been to!

Why the 11 week level 2 & 1 if you already have BASI 1? Because the 7 week course is only a £1000 less so for an extra grand i may as well get an extra month in the rockies!

Now i'm interested to find out just how hard the financial strain was whilst on the course, personally for me to take one of the courses i'll have to get a bank loan of i'd guess at about £10,000 to cover the £6995 cost of the course with £3000 left over for visa apps and flights. Now did any of you get part time jobs whilst out on the course? Because i feel that i will point blank need some kind of part time job for sustenance whilst i'm there, yes you get breakfast 5 days and dinner 7 days a week but you have social events and nights out and eating and drinking mid day whilst on the mountain.

Did any of you go without getting a part time job? If so how did you find it?

Overall how much did the course cost you in total? i mean everything, course, visa, flights, social aspect, equipment (if you didnt have it), food.

I'm trying to find enough reason to get into debt to take this course, as i'm a student who's just finished Uni i'm already in about £45,000 of debt so i need to justify a bank loan.

Thanks for taking the time to read this and any responses are appreciated.

Sam
May 18 2013 9:11AM
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DrewEire
Posts: 20 - Karma: 13
£10k is insane for an instructor qualification...

Are you set on going to Canada? there are other systems you can do for a lot less... have you considered Austria? You can complete the anwarter qualification which is the Austrian level 1 for 600 euro and pretty much walk into a job in most resorts (in Austria obviously). If you have some German it helps but the course can definitely be passed with out it
May 18 2013 9:23AM
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SwitchMisty540
Posts: 1862 - Karma: 630
This....I would never spend that kind of money on any instructor certification. It would take 10 years to make that money back working in the industry.
May 18 2013 9:34AM
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Legoman
Posts: 533 - Karma: 13
I have done one of these courses, its good fun but essentially you are paying to have a holiday. A very expensive holiday and you will not make that money back in ski instructor wages or be able to pay off the loan.

If you still want to do it then I would suggest looking at a career development loan as that is what I did, you can get up to 8 grand, I will finish paying it off next year at a cost of £180 a month although rates are probably better now. This is quite hard when you are back in reality and is a lot of your disposable income unless your making a good salary. 5 years is a long time to be paying something off.

The course is very easy to pass in hindsight. With about an 80% pass rate, I have seen some pretty poor skiers pass not just in terms of ability but also teaching. You end up halfway between level 2 and 3 by then end of the course imo if you are a decent skier and you work hard.

You would be better off trying to do a season and working it using your BASI qualification I think this would better prepare you in all honesty. The year after I taught my girlfriend to get through the exams in my free time and she had really limited experience to begin with.

Your not going to be able to work whilst your out there unless you get a OWH visa, dont bother wasting this though as you only get 2 and its impractial to do the course and work, plus all the jobs will be long gone before you get there.

You will have just as much fun working a season and getting paid to do it rather than paying out the nose for the course. Out of the 100 or so skiers that passed in my year I would say less than 10 got jobs, I was one of the lucky ones.

Dont want to be a debbie downer just trying to give you a realistic view of things, if you got loadsa cash and mummy and daddy to rely on then sure go for it youll have a fun time. Otherwise there are better options out there, feel free to PM me if you want any other advice.
May 18 2013 9:39AM
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sambob
Posts: 73 - Karma: 187
I have level 1 BASI which cost me £600 plus about another £200 in extras such as 1st aid and child safety as well as £100 for 4 days accommodation + 4 days living expenses which add sup to about £1000 for a 4 day course... and yes i'm set on Banff, but even similar courses in Europe cost the same amount, dont forget the £10,000 isnt just for the course, it pays for accommodation for 11 weeks as well as lift passes, travel, food, drink and much more.
May 18 2013 10:07AM
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DrewEire
Posts: 20 - Karma: 13
If you are set for Banff fair enough I can't help you any more but in regards to the courses across Europe...


Granted it will only get you your Anwarter but you don't require a visa (assuming you are British) plus to complete the Austrian Landeslehrer (ISIA level 3) it costs altogether roughly 2800euro which is minute in comparison to £10,000 for your CASI level 2.

Bear in mind also the Austrian system is accepted world wide other than Italy and France which requires the Eurotest conversion.

A good website to ask on may be snowheads.com, maybe you are already aware of it....
May 18 2013 10:38AM
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D_Elgar
Posts: 210 - Karma: 391
Gap year English kids need to save the money on that shit. Fly over find a place yourself buy a pass yourself and sign up for the courses yourself you will save money. I watch this shit year in year out in whistler and blown again with the amount of money people spend to able to work on the moutain. If you want to spend everyday on the moutain just do it. It's not any harder than that. Save your money and just shred
May 18 2013 10:49AM
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sambob
Posts: 73 - Karma: 187
I've looked into moving to Banff and Lake Tahoe, while it would be easier to move and progressively do my qualifications i would have to secure a job prior to moving as i simply don't have the funds to just up and leave with no guarantees of work. I'm already signed up to about 50 different websites that offer seasonal work!
May 18 2013 11:12AM
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sambob
Posts: 73 - Karma: 187
while the Austrian level 2 is only 2800 euros does that include accommodation, breakfast, dinner, ski hire, life pass and all that other jazz, as for working in France or Italy the only way to not take their qualifications is to get to level 4 at which point you don't have to take their race exams and such.

I'm torn between BASI and CASI but either way ill probably end up in Banff no matter who i go with.
May 18 2013 11:15AM
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schism
Posts: 1705 - Karma: 389
I did my CSIA 2 in banff this year, and everyone in my group was part of some program called non stop which I believe is what you're talking about.

$10 000 is a lot of money for a ski season, let alone 10 000 pounds. To be honest, I would suggest going to whistler or the big white and ski bum for a season and get your csia 1 and 2 on the side.

You could live like a king in a ski town with that kind of money.
May 18 2013 11:17AM
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Rosbif
Posts: 2543 - Karma: 930
Dude, if you were a rich kid whose folks were paying I'd say go for it, but seriously don't take out a loan. The first few years ski instructing are tough financially anyway, with a loan it'd be a nightmare.

How long do you want to instruct for? Where? Canada is cool, but they pay their instructors pretty poorly.

You could probably go out there, get your l1 and get a job, that way the school pays for your training. Don't be put off though, It's definitely doable as a career, I've been teaching for 12 seasons now and it's the sickest job ever.
May 18 2013 11:34AM
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SwitchMisty540
Posts: 1862 - Karma: 630
way too much money bro...total waste.  if a BASI Level 1 is anything like PSIA Level 1 it doesn't mean shit.  the first aid and child safety certs are pretty sweet (most American resorts don't require these sorts of things in order to teach).  in fact, there are tons of resorts that don't require any certifications to teach.  and some will subsidize the cost of certs and accreditations. 

my suggestion...find a resort that doesn't require certs to teach and is also willing to pay for any certs you choose to pursue.  if they happen to host clinics or exams that you need to attend well then you've got it made in the shade...you won't have to pay for travel expenses to other resorts (not to mention lost wages). 

trust me bro...i looked into all kinds of intensive programs that cost a fortune and the reality is that they are not worth the money in the long run.  if you are a strong skier and solid teacher, resorts will recognize that and you'll get quality work.  i know some PSIA full certs out there that can't ski worth shit so definitely don't place to much importance on certs. 

last thing, look for a resort that is a home mountain for well respected examiners and full certs...you'll end up taking a ton of free lessons and clinics with them. 
May 18 2013 1:55PM
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ShredMasterPlus
Posts: 1159 - Karma: 807
Dude, get a job as a lifty, or at a rental shop in town. I paid 150bucks for my Level 1 in Lake Louise and its like 400 for the level 2. If you get a job at the hill accoms are like 200bucks a month so that's 600 for 3 months and you will actually make a little bit of money. If you really want to spend a bunch of time skiing at a resort then might as well just get a ski bum job, and take the instructor courses on your spare time.
Actually if you can afford that kind of cash might as well just find a cheap place to rent in Banff, live on the cheap and ski bum all season and work a couple nights a week. Get your instructors tickets and live the dream.
May 18 2013 2:40PM
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DanThrax
Posts: 128 - Karma: 139
I have my BASI 1 but I'm not a fan of the BASI system - needlessly over complicated.

Just do what I did, move out to BC, live and work on resort - as a lifty in my case - earn money instead of wasting $10,000. Then I just completed my CSIA1 during three days of the season. Job done, and I'm in profit.
May 18 2013 3:30PM
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LC.
Posts: 5952 - Karma: 2,423
10K? You could comfortably bum 3 winters on that and ski as much as you like.
May 18 2013 3:44PM
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Mag
Posts: 8155 - Karma: 14,809
I don't know about comfortably, what cost of accomodation are you basing that on? bare in mind he has just over £2k each season at that.
May 18 2013 3:51PM
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sambob
Posts: 73 - Karma: 187
i've already tired getting a job in Banff and only one UK based contractors works with them, and there are literally about 6 jobs going none of which i can do, chalet chefs etc ... that was my first approach, and i cant afford that kind of money it would be a bank loan lol!
May 18 2013 6:05PM
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sambob
Posts: 73 - Karma: 187
thats my view, and ill have my BASI level one next month, the issue is getting a job before i get out there, if i could gurantee a job then i wouldn't have to think twice.
May 18 2013 6:08PM
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sambob
Posts: 73 - Karma: 187
i dont have that kind of money ha it would be a loan to cover the course expenses, if i lift bum it i'd just go with what ever money i had at the time and try scrape by ha.
May 18 2013 6:10PM
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sambob
Posts: 73 - Karma: 187
Just applied to the ski school in Banff for the 13/14 season, they recognize international certifications and i notified them that whilst there i would be interested in pursuing the levels 2 and 3 CASI awards... now its a waiting game!
May 18 2013 7:01PM
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minihef
Posts: 811 - Karma: 763
I agree with the others - that's a huge amount to spend on what is essentially a very expensive holiday. IMO your time is better spent getting a year's work visa and just doing a full season living and working here. As long as you get a job that isn't 9-5 then you'll be able to ski loads over the full seven months of the season rather than being baby sat by an instructor for just a few weeks of it. Especially if you can't afford the cost of the course outright as even if you're one of the lucky ones to land an instructing job at the end of it the the first few years instructing can be really tough financially.

As for nailing down a job before getting to Banff then be warned this is very difficult. Most employers here won't hire someone unless they can meet them in person - why risk hiring someone from afar who might not show up when there's always an influx of new people in town looking for work. The way to do it is book a month in a hostel and look for work once you get here. You'll have no problem finding a job if you put in the effort and time it right, plus you'll meet so many people whilst you're at the hotel looking.
May 19 2013 2:08AM
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-SnowSnoli-
Posts: 756 - Karma: 1,703
If you do change your mind about Banff and want to go to europe the ski school here runs gap courses

http://www.onthemountainpro.co.uk/

And they generally give you hours teaching(paid) by the end of feb.





May 19 2013 5:43AM
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sambob
Posts: 73 - Karma: 187
I think rather than get a loan if i cant find work in Banff what my plan is, is to spend two years saving, get a second job over here in England, and try to save as close to 10k as possible in those two years, I can lend a few thousand of family if i need to and repay them at a later date, i think thats the better idea, save for two years instead of repaying a loan for 7 years. Even contemplating selling my car :'( which is my pride and joy as it gets me to the slopes and back lol but i really cant resist Banff!
May 19 2013 10:55AM
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sambob
Posts: 73 - Karma: 187
I think rather than get a loan if i cant find work in Banff what my plan is, is to spend two years saving, get a second job over here in England, and try to save as close to 10k as possible in those two years, I can lend a few thousand of family if i need to and repay them at a later date, i think thats the better idea, save for two years instead of repaying a loan for 7 years. Even contemplating selling my car :'( which is my pride and joy as it gets me to the slopes and back lol but i really cant resist Banff!
May 19 2013 10:55AM
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sambob
Posts: 73 - Karma: 187
the only other places ill consider is Tignes / Val D / Thorens, i've been lucky enough to ski in almost every major resort and banff and the two above are my favourite places to ski, i've also just been told that I can do my CSIA level 2 after getting my BASI level 1 which is cheaper for the long term course, while this is just a very expensive holiday basically in a way thats what i want, i havnt skied regular for ages and a few months off will be well deserved if i save the cash i think!
May 19 2013 10:58AM
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LC.
Posts: 5952 - Karma: 2,423
£10K over 3 winters is £3333, so €3900/$5200CAD per winter. December to April inclusive is 5 months at €780/€1040CAD per month. If you can't live comfortably on that then you've got problems.
May 19 2013 1:26PM
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.Roockley.
Posts: 3857 - Karma: 4,000
something to bear in mind though is that ski instructing can get you work visas which in turn could lead to residency. when you live in england, it's not a bad way out
May 19 2013 3:40PM
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Mag
Posts: 8155 - Karma: 14,809
oh thought he meant 10k usd sorry
May 19 2013 3:54PM
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BlackcountryBill
Posts: 955 - Karma: 576
God man, take some advise if you're asking for it.
May 19 2013 5:33PM
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SwitchMisty540
Posts: 1862 - Karma: 630
work at a resort where you don't have to invest any money in your career.  you're talking about taking two years to save money when you could get an instructor job tomorrow.  why not let another resort pay for your certs and then move to the place you really want to be?  seems like a no brainer to me.  and as many people have mentioned before, instructing pays shit your first few years.  a lot of first and second year instructors have multiple jobs to cover living expenses.  so just a friendly reminder before you start dumping tons of money into this career. 
May 19 2013 7:04PM
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sambob
Posts: 73 - Karma: 187
Yeh I know instructing is terrible pay to begin with, at least until you reach the higher certs. Yet I don't care, i've grown up with skiing and its something i want to do, i've spent the last 8 months applying for jobs in chalets around the world. Just waiting for that 1 golden ticket!
May 20 2013 9:52AM
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LC.
Posts: 5952 - Karma: 2,423
Don't work in a chalet. Worst job going.

Just pick where you want to go, get your visa, show up in late October/early November, find a house, find a job, ski lots and have fun.
May 20 2013 10:02AM
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Pete88
Posts: 70 - Karma: 37

I would try and get a job in Europe and then ski with people better than you. (I did a season in Tignes and ended up skiing with guys going for their 4 or who had it.).

Then get on a BASI 2 course at the end of the season. the BASI 2 is probably the best value for money course they run as it's two weeks and about £500.

After that you can apply for jobs in Oz, which you should easily get and pay well. If you still want to continue instructing, apply to Canadian resorts and you can go BASI 2- CSIA 3. My friend did that in Whis this season. Bear in mind that the CSIA teaching is pretty different to the BASI teaching, they focus on different things.

I feel I spent less doing my BASI 1+ 2 and  my Tignes season (all living costs and a nice appartment in Tignes for over 5 months) plus my traveling to OZ than a gap course costs.

May 20 2013 10:14AM
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SwitchMisty540
Posts: 1862 - Karma: 630
I'm certainly not discouraging you from being a ski instructor....I'm trying to discourage you from wasting a ton of money. And having higher certs doesn't necessarily mean that you will be making a lot more money. Time and experience in the industry are what get you paid. Instructing is about establishing a solid client base...people that come back to your resort year after year to ski specifically with you. You're talking about wasting two years to save money for expensive instructor training courses when you could be taking that time to start establishing yourself in the industry. No offense but you kinda sound like an 18 year old college student who assumes that when they graduate they are going to get an awesome job because they have a degree. Not how it works my friend. Experience is everything. Ski schools often place a whole lot of emphasis on seniority...and at some places you will still be considered a rookie after 5 years. Don't waste your time or money dude. Seriously.
May 20 2013 1:08PM
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sambob
Posts: 73 - Karma: 187
I'm 21, and yes i have a degree, but the whole reason im going into the ski industry means my degree counts for vary little, i've been skiing for 18 years, i started at the age of 3 and have skied ever since, i've skied longer than most and i've definitively skied longer than 95% of people my age, i did my degree to make my family proud as the only true academic in the whole of my family, but now its time to do something i love, i know what makes money and i most certainly do not expect to walk into somewhere and start earning good money just because i have a degree, at least not in this industry. The whole reason to work in resort for me is for the mountain not the money, id happily bum the seasons away if i felt i could handle it. I'd also advise you against making such rash judgments as i do not appreciate being judged so likely, i'm no stranger to hard work, my degree was exceptionally hard, i've also put well over a thousand hours voluntary work in, in the last three years it every industry conceivable. The reasons i feel i would be a successful instructor are as follows;

I worked as a professional sports coach for 2 years
I've spent the last 5 years in the sports / coaching industry
I've skied for 18 of 21 years and have a lot of on mountain experience
I've put 1000+ voluntary hours into building up a good C.V
I'm passionate about the sport
Last but not least I accept that with hard work comes just rewards.
May 20 2013 3:42PM
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sambob
Posts: 73 - Karma: 187
Thanks, that's the general thing people seem to be saying, i've decided to do exactly what you did, im looking for in resort jobs right now, ill be looking to complete my BASI 2 whilst out there. Then like you said skip from BASI 2 to CSIA 3 and the BASI system was derived from the CSIA system i have no idea how they managed to over complicate it so much. I've also applied to ski schools in Canada as some take BASI 1's on board and then convert them over to CSIA 2 early season.
May 20 2013 3:46PM
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sambob
Posts: 73 - Karma: 187
i am taking advise?
May 20 2013 3:48PM
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sambob
Posts: 73 - Karma: 187
i am taking advise?
May 20 2013 3:49PM
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SwitchMisty540
Posts: 1862 - Karma: 630
once again you are completely missing the point.

i'm a ski instructor.  i've been skiing for a lot longer than you.  i agree that it is one of the greatest jobs for a person like myself.  nobody teaches for the money.  everybody does it for the opportunity to do what they love every single day.

nobody is calling your work ethic into question.

the point i'm trying to make, for the last time, don't waste your fucking money on intensive programs that cost you an arm and a leg, especially if it requires that you take out a loan, borrow money from friends/family, or dip into savings.  its just purely retarded no matter how you look at it. 
May 20 2013 4:12PM
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Jombob
Posts: 113 - Karma: 97
If you have the coaching and skiing background that you say an 11 week course in Banff is not worth it. Try applying to Mt Norquay in Banff they should hire you and you can do your level 1 at the start of the season.


 By the way your helmet is ridiculous Click for larger image
May 20 2013 5:16PM
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D_Elgar
Posts: 210 - Karma: 391
You should listen to this guy....those programs are a waste of money Be a lifty or work a night job to ski everyday.... Leave that stupid helmet in England....don't need more gapers
May 20 2013 7:25PM
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sambob
Posts: 73 - Karma: 187
I wear the helmet for a reason, i only use it in the park or if im hitting big mt, I have metal plates in my jaws and spent 7 years having my jaws re aligned.

now would you risk wasting 7 years of your life by not wearing a full face helmet? or would you wear a full face helmet?

Now youve posted the photo i suppose i should explain the body armor too lol

snapped left AC joint, metal hook, metal plate and 8 screws

3 cracked ribs and a dislocated shoulder ( 5 weeks ago)

being a fairly skinny guy i felt body armor was the way to go.

May 20 2013 7:29PM
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sambob
Posts: 73 - Karma: 187
please read my post on why i wear the helmet ... i wear it for a specific reason...
May 20 2013 7:30PM
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sambob
Posts: 73 - Karma: 187
I have taken the advice of all the responses, and i evidently got the wrong end of the stick with your last post, sorry.

I never said i was definitely doing it, i was just asking for some advice, after all the responses i agree from what ive been told its a waste of money, i've since started applying for ski rep jobs, ill have my level 1 BASI next month and ill look to complete level 2 during my season wok. doing a few seasons will allow me to brush up on my French before i go to take level 3 in the future.
May 20 2013 7:33PM
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LC.
Posts: 5952 - Karma: 2,423
Give up guys, let him do what he wants and wear what he wants. I mean, he's already £45K in debt from getting a degree he doesn't plan to use.
May 21 2013 4:05AM
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grambo
Posts: 1125 - Karma: 93
1) PAY 10k POUNDS to cert to be a ski instructor? WAT?

2) It doesn't snow in Banff, why would you pay $10k to go there?

3) Ruroc is not a real fullface and it looks ridiculous, if you want protection get something like Troy Lee designs.

4) Tapout. No.
May 21 2013 5:00AM
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awelshkiwi
Posts: 25 - Karma: 44
http://www.skivo2.co.uk/BASI+Gap+Fast+Track+Ski+Instructor+Programme/ couldnt reccomend it any more! i did it, loved it we all passed are basi 2 dead easy and i know have my test technique so i can teach in france and it laid great foundations for that. if you want to hear anymore drop me a message and i can try to answer it as well as i can or put you in contact with blake who runs it
May 21 2013 5:30AM
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b.utters
Posts: 321 - Karma: 99
http://instructortrainingacademy.com/ski-instructor-courses/

Give these guys a look in. I just did my L1 & 2 NZISA and it was amazing. NZSIA L2 is also pretty well recognized around the world.

That being said, take note of what Switchmisty is saying. I did this after working for 3 years in a high paying job and I wanted to learn how to ski properly and a long holiday. It was only after that I decided I wanted to actually do something with the certs. If you don't have money behind you take his advice because like he said, without any experience your certs don't mean shit.
May 21 2013 8:00AM
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MaddiesPooHole
Posts: 103 - Karma: 84
Sambob you are a moron.

Having spent 5 seasons as an instructor I can guarentee you will be laughed out of any ski school you apply at if you show up for work looking like someone who had just got lost mid paint ball fight.

you should like all the other english punters that give us here in the uk a bad name.

stick to your rentals skis and weeks away to verbier. there is another of you in the terrible basi system all ready,
May 21 2013 8:43AM
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jca
Posts: 4162 - Karma: 6,261
http://www.nonstopsnow.com/ - ive worked for these guys, they do it right.

all these gaper brits spending a shit load of money sure helps our local economy a lot more than cheap ski bums.
i can even fathom your thought process that would make you think that this course of action is a good idea though... you wont be able to pay off that loan as a rookie ski instructor..



May 21 2013 7:20PM
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sambob
Posts: 73 - Karma: 187
I like how people are happy to abuse and give no real insight or advice what so ever ... ruroc meets industry regulations as a ski and snowboard full face helmet, it doesnt snow in Banff? Sunshine village have skiing until late May every year ... fucking idiot.
May 22 2013 11:51AM
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