Rape culture. don't be a creep.

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This is from the justice department

I just wanted to start with this to show that the amount of rape accusations that happen from 'drunk sluts sleeping with someone they didn't really like' is very low.

I also don't think there's anything wrong with being a 'slut' if that means having casual sex for pleasure.

It's not a survey. It's asking once and if they are enthusiastic about it, go for it, and if they aren't maybe ask a clarifying question once. It's just regular conversation except the problem is when it doesn't happen and people are afraid that if they don't ask it won't happen so they don't do it.

Earlier you were talking about women forcing themselves on top of you/touching you sexually without your consent and you talked about how that was a negative situation for you. For me it's all about giving someone the choice before you are on top of them/touching them which I think is not nearly as common as it should be. People can be forceful I watch guys at clubs rub against girls and hit on them and touch them and the girls need to literally shield themselves with a friend or yell at the guy to stop. Now she was just put in an uncomfortable situation where they had to physically force a likely bigger and stronger person off them. If they weren't as comfortable, or if the guy was persistent enough maybe they would just let it happen. To me that is not the woman's fault, but the guys and I think that needs to stop, and that happens by asking.

Jan 13 2013 12:57AM

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ugh this whole "rape culture" thing is such a joke that only pseudo-feminists and their sympathizers recognize as being a problem. People do fucked up shit and take advantage of people and they should be prosecuted. No rape culture though.

Jan 13 2013 1:02AM

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This post is rape culture

WHAT IS RAPE CULTURE?
In a rape culture, people are surrounded with images, language, laws, and other everyday phenomena that validate and perpetuate, rape. Rape culture includes jokes, TV, music, advertising, legal jargon, laws, words and imagery, that make violence against women and sexual coercion seem so normal that people believe that rape is inevitable. Rather than viewing the culture of rape as a problem to change, people in a rape culture think about the persistence of rape as “just the way things are.”

also, here's is a meme I made for this thread

Jan 13 2013 1:11AM

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Insane

Mate, even femi-nazi Nancy Grace disagrees with that absurd diagram you just posted.

Here she is, commenting on a blatant instance of false rape reporting. A highly entertaining video.

Jan 13 2013 2:15AM

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skierman

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I'd love to see the stats on girls who "cry" rape compared to those who hold in inside them for decades only for when the violator dies or becomes obsolete in the public sector of popularity.... oh wait... http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2013/jan/11/jimmy-savile-abused-children-hospitals

Just to let your stupid little mind know, there are a majority of instances where women have been raped but didn't report it due to social injustices and prejudices (including a fair number of NS female members of past and present). That means there are to my personal knowledge at least 4 rapists that are still free and roaming due to the fact that you idiots think that just because the victim has a vagina that at some point it must have been her fault in one way or another.

Grow the fuck up NS. Seriously, it's fucking pathetic.

Jan 13 2013 2:30AM

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Femi-nazi; because equality is the same as killing millions of jewish people.

Also the only absurd thing is your diagram reading skills. It combined how many rapes aren't reported into the visuals as well, and if you look you will see that the 2-5 or whatever she said in that video is actually just shown...

Again the stats used to create that are from the justice department and FBI.

Jan 13 2013 2:33AM

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skierman

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Golden Wheelchair anyone?

"If you get really drunk and aren't able to defend yourself and get raped that's rape. If you get really drunk and fuck a guy but were really drunk that's not rape"

btw he's comparing this to a story in which a woman was too drunk to defend herself and was raped.... on camera.

Jan 13 2013 2:35AM

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GEORGEzimmerman

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i cant wait to be like 25..high schoolers are really immature now. its really really bad i cant take it

Jan 13 2013 2:44AM

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skierman

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Bro, it's not rape if they're so drunk that they cannot comprehend what's going on. That's like college life, bro. God forbid if a girl gets drunk and ends up at a frat that's on her campus... well fuck her, it's her fault for getting drunk and having guys rape her.

That makes sense to the rest of humanity outside of the U.S., right? Because here it's completely normal as long as you have a bunch of Greek letters protecting you... Just saying....

Jan 13 2013 2:58AM

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Insane

Wrong.

Feminists like her do not seek "equality", they are man haters. How often do you hear them speaking out against women raping men? Oh, that's right: NEVER.

As for my diagram reading skills, I think they are on point. Why? Because she said false rape reporting was BETWEEN 2 and 8 %. Your diagram does not indicate any in-between number, only 2% alone.

This of course leaves out the fact that many studies have found false rape reporting to be much, much higher than this figure.

But of course, it's not politically correct to bring that up, so let's pretend it's only 2%.

:D

Jan 13 2013 4:23AM

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No Life

......................... did you even watch the video, "mate"?

As for Nancy Grace, I have no idea who she is but after a quick read on Wikipedia I couldnt really find anything on her being a man-hater.
It makes me so fucking upset when people/mostly men say that outspoken feminists are "man haters" simply because they attack your world view and question the patriarchal system we live in, designed to keep women inferior to men.

Also, people who compare anything to nazis/the Holocaust lose any form of credibility in my eyes, despite how convincing and backed up their arguments are.

Jan 13 2013 7:20AM

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pmw

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dude if i smashed and hook up with a fat chick, i wake up in the morning regretting my drunken decision. i dont go and call rape because i was drunk and would not have made that decision under normal circumstances

you are twisting his words in such an extreme way. if a girl is stumbling around and hardly coherent, a guy swoops her up and brings her upstairs, then id say there is something wrong with that and its worth investigation. if a girl is drunk, social, coherent, aggressive, and consents...yet in the morning she regrets it because after some fb stalking she sees the guy wasnt that hot..thats her fault and no one elses

i agree with the general point youre trying to put down but at the same time youre making it seem like sex with any drunk girl that wouldnt fuck you sober, and thats bullshit

Jan 13 2013 9:47AM

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pmw

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but woman are inferior to men

Jan 13 2013 9:53AM

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I don't care what 'feminists like her' do or think, I care and am talking about what feminism as a principle stands for, and that is equality.

Feminists don't like rape, and they are against rape against a man as well. But it's just common sense that if you want to reach equality.. you're going to try to positively shift the imbalance towards less rape. It's just the more effective thing to do, and it does work towards equality.

The power imbalance between men and women hurts men too. As cliche as it sounds men are mocked for having emotional needs, and can't get support from others because they are told they have to be strong and protectors and providers. I am sure there is a whole problem in the cases you are talking about of rape against men where the men are extremely shamed to not come out and report the rape. Think about what people would say. They would say 'dude... but you just got laid..' or 'why didn't you just like it' or like 'how did she even force you to do that' because the system that feminism opposes has all these ideas in it that stop men from being able to report rape without shame.

Feminism works for an environment where men would be able to report rape without shame and get the emotional support they may need.

Yeah alight so it has a bias, but it's within the statistics so I'll take it. Maybe the 2% is from the justice department and when she quoted the variation those were from other source that would probably be considered less legit. It's really not important at this point. Yeah it's not politically incorrect to bring that up, I think everything is valid to bring up, you just need to back it up with logical discourse or stats ya know?

Jan 13 2013 10:18AM

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Youre probably just trying to be funny, so I'm going to try and pretend I never saw that post. If you werent, I feel sorry for your mother, grandmothers, female relatives of any kind, future daughters, any girl, woman or lady you ever in your life has been or will be in contact with and hope you end up forever alone in some gross shithole with your hand as only company.

Jan 13 2013 10:23AM

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pmw

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i feel sorry for you because you have a smaller brain than me

Jan 13 2013 10:29AM

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Ok.

Jan 13 2013 10:30AM

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LiquorLanch

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Insane

This is is Dildos.

Jan 13 2013 10:48AM

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CliffyByro

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easy tiger

Jan 13 2013 10:49AM

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Rape culture.

Yeah people joke about rape all the time. You know what I hear 10 times as much. I'll kill you. He's gonna kill you.

People joking about killing people. We have a murder culture that perpetuates murder. And anyone who has ever said I'm gonna kill you is responsible.

Jan 13 2013 2:55PM

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How is my post rape culture?

I do not believe that our jokes, tv, music, advertising, legal jargon, laws, or words and imagery make violence against woman okay. I believe in the freedom of expression and the 1st amendment where people are able to make jokes and art as they please. Where they do not have to worry about people like you labeling them as promoting rape culture and having these pseudo-feminists and their sympathizers try to censor every little thing because its "offensive".

Jan 13 2013 3:28PM

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act.resist

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you don't know this girl. you weren't there. you have no right to say anything about her or if it WAS her fault because you have no idea.

Jan 13 2013 3:40PM

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GayWolf420

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Sounds like she can't hang.

Too soon?

Jan 13 2013 3:47PM

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abortionator: yeah that is a good point, it's definitely something I've thought of. The difference to me is that if someone gets killed, people don't worry about whether they provoked it, or whether they were doing something to get themselves murdered, they just go after the murderer. No one is afraid to report a murder in fear of being called names and shamed like rape victims are called drunk sluts.

I know, freedom of expression. You actually have that. I'm not sure what specifically you have a hard time with people censoring. I don't like to censor things, but I do like to point out possible problems with them.

Here is a great post I read the other day about the free speech argument.

``“So here’s the real reason that rape jokes are troubled territory -

Because rape victims say so.

They get to say that. They get to feel that way. On this, they get to set the cultural rules.

It’s not about right or wrong, or logic versus emotion, or arguments of over sensitivity or hypocrisy - you have the free speech to make whatever jokes you want or talk about rape in whatever way you feel is illuminating. But they get to be upset about it. And call you on it. And be hurt by it.

But consider this:

You get to not be a rape victim.

They, however, are not afforded that luxury. Ever again.”
—
Chuck Wendig

Jan 13 2013 4:08PM

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Play Ball

To me rape culture sounds like something that just showed up. All the sudden we have this rape culture.

Hell back in the day things were a lot worse. Nothings perfect. Hell people get mad and riot about all kind of stupid shit.

The world is full of stupid people.

Jan 13 2013 4:37PM

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rape has always been a problem. I think its just now that its getting recognition on a much broader scale than it used to. Which is great. Putting words to a problem/a system makes it easier to deal with, and hopefully more people will be aware of what they're doing, saying and thinking is wrong, or at least maybe stop for a minute and think about what makes you think and act in certain ways.

Also, I dont like the scenario people on here draw up so often (not only in this thread, but in previous threads about rape) that a drunk girl regrets what shes been up to at a party and then "calls rape". Of course that is not acceptable on any level, and girls need to know that you cant accuse someone of something just because you regret a certain action. Personally I have never heard of these stories where I live, or at least that its a huge problem.

Its unfair to only voice these stories about false allegations when there are actual rapes happening everyday. Just today I read about a 20 year old girl walking home from the subway at 4am in the morning (the EXACT same train station in the EXACT same neighborhood at the EXACT same time I was by myself 2 weeks ago), where she was jumped and raped by a gang of 5 men. It just made me think that it could have been me, and I really hope the girl is ok and can continue to live her life, eventhough she is most likely scarred for life.

if people could just imagine walking in someone elses shoes for a moment I guess we all could agree upon that no one wants to be raped, or worry about being raped.

sparknotes: I agree that its foul to "call rape", but why the focus on just those cases? It makes you just as skewed on the matter as when you say "pseudo-feminists" only focus on girls being raped.

Jan 13 2013 4:50PM

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People weren't rioting in the streets, just delusional meat-heads from that mediocre university were.

Im still not seeing rape culture. Im seeing people who do bad things. There is a difference between those individuals and calling them out and putting the blame on every normal member of society because we somehow "enabled them". I am sorry but people can take responsibility for themselves. dont go blaming me and other civilized people for their actions. I still like my first amendment rights thank you very much.

Jan 13 2013 4:57PM

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987321654hgfd

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Something in here I agree with.

Jan 13 2013 5:00PM

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No one's blaming anyone but the rapist.. except for rape culture; it's blaming the victim.

I agree that people have and will always do bad things, and I do think freedom of speech is pretty swell, but like I posted above, rape jokes offend and cause emotional harm to victims of rape, and also normalize it, so I believe the right choice is to not make those jokes. It's like, you don't make anti-semetic jokes because those make people feel bad., and you don't want to make people feel bad.

Jan 13 2013 5:06PM

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Play Ball

But how the hell is that an argument for rape culture? They didn't know it was wrong because of rape culture and that's a good example?

I mean bad shit's going to happen. It's going to generally be directed toward women in this case because men and women are different.

People get murdered all the time but I'm not arguing that that's all because of murder culture. Bad shit's going to happen. Don't put everything bad on this "rape culture".

I'm not saying that people don't teach shitty ideals to their kids about other people, but it's not always as broad as people seem to be pushing it.

Bad shit is always going to happen, and there will always be people telling their kids that women are worthless, that gay people are worthless, that black people are worthless, that anyone is worthless. I'm just saying that you can't put that on everyone, or even most people.

Hell we have a giant racist culture. We make different rules for different races and in the name of trying to hide our racism with "equality" actually promote racism.

Why don't we talk about that.

I'm just saying that you can take this down every route. Instead of targeting this area and blaming people that aren't involved for being part of rape culture why not just promote the golden rule. That's nice and simple and applies to all. The most basic fucking thing but such a useful rule that's missing in our society.

If people looked at things from different perspectives, and tried to treat others the way they'd want to be treated, the world would be a much warmer place.

Also I wasn't arguing that rape is good, that women are worthless or anything like that. I just didn't like the angle he came from in a good chunk of that video.

Jan 13 2013 5:07PM

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okay, i will concede that their are micro-rape cultures for example the penn state situation, but i dont think the U.S. as a whole or western society is one big rape culture.

Jan 13 2013 5:07PM

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Personally I believe that it can be useful to try and analyze things and take a step back to understand why we laugh at certain things, or why we normalize things in society. I dont like the mentality "bad shit has and always will happen", because that doesnt promote change at all.
I admitted earlier that I laugh at the sloth meme, and also at insanity wolf. But when I think about it I realise that its about something terrible and it makes me feel a little bad. The comparison that was mentioned earlier about jew/Holocaust jokes was pretty good too. Inb4 "you gotta be able to joke about everything".

I'm also a firm believer in the golden rule, but I think people need to be more aware of what they are doing is wrong or can be offensive to other people before saying that the golden rule is the answer, otherwise I reckon the wrong doers wont understand what they are doing is wrong anyway.

Jan 13 2013 5:21PM

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Play Ball

This example you gave though. 5 dues raping a girl in the subway. People do fucked up shit, that doesn't mean it's my fault or "rape cultures" fault. That's really all I was trying to say. And as far as the "bad things will happen" I wasn't trying to justify it but just saying that people will always do fucked up shit.

When people are horny they do ridiculous and sometimes fucked up shit.

When people are drunk they do ridiculous and fucked up shit.

When people are drunk and horny they can do some really ridiculous and fucked up shit.

Even without any "rape culture" in society, people will still get drunk, rape people and say that she asked for it, she wanted it etc.

I'm not arguing that there aren't problems that we can try and change, just trying to be realistic to an extent.

Idk, I'll just stop posting.

Jan 13 2013 5:28PM

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Jeebus.

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that gay kid behind her is about to "rape" her.

Jan 13 2013 5:34PM

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2_fadez

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not with those fuckin womanly arms on him

Jan 13 2013 5:49PM

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I think that the micro-rape culture that's seen in the penn state situation is a product of the larger one. I think the idea becomes more clear and you end up thinking about it more, but think about how many times you've heard something similar when you have heard about cases like this. It's usually a whole thing where there is evidence but the victim gets blamed for her actions and is accused of lying.

I think the only way that these can keep happening in parallel is if there are larger pervasive ideas behind them, conscious or not.

Jan 13 2013 5:55PM

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Flacko

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the guy said in the video that being drunk is not an excuse for doing something, but then says that if you fuck a drunk girl and she regrets it its your fault. so pretty much no matter what its the guys fault.

Jan 13 2013 6:03PM

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BlackCupid

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Where do you go to school?

Jan 13 2013 6:06PM

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BBurt

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This article is 100% true. When you're drunk, you don't always make the right descisions like you would if you're sober. Using this as an excuse for rape is like when soeone gets out of the dentist and is on that loony gas, and taking what they say as an excuse for putting them in the loony house.

Jan 13 2013 7:27PM

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Chunter

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Jan 13 2013 7:46PM

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Jeebus.

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I feel sorry for her because her periods attract bears.

Jan 13 2013 10:46PM

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Insane

I appreciate this response; you're right about the attitudes to women taking advantage of men. Obviously, men are more often the culprits, but I have a male friend who was pretty much blackout and ended up being taken advantage of and there was no obvious way to address this.

Here's a study you might find interesting; Convicted by Juries, Exonerated by Science: Case Studies in the Use of DNA Evidence to Establish Innocence After Trial, by the Department of Justice.

It stated "Every year since 1989, in about 25 percent of the sexual assault cases referred to the FBI where results could be obtained, the primary suspect has been excluded by forensic DNA testing. Specifically, FBI officials report that out of roughly 10,000 sexual assault cases since 1989, about 2,000 tests have been inconclusive, about 2,000 tests have excluded the primary suspect, and about 6,000 have "matched" or included the primary suspect."

The authors continued, "these percentages have remained constant for 7 years, and the National Institute of Justice's informal survey of private laboratories reveals a strikingly similar 26 percent exclusion rate."

Whilst this study addresses the innocence of the 'primary suspect' as opposed to the 'accused' (ie. by the victim), the two terms are essentially the same thing, and this study is strong evidence that the 2% figure is an understatement.

Jan 13 2013 11:13PM

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awesome, thanks for this. personally I don't understand how it works, what the differences could be between this and the possible accused but assuming this is true, my question is

so what? what should we do about it now? the majority of accused are still rapists. I am not sure how this information would change how we look at things.

Jan 13 2013 11:25PM

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Okay, so everyone understands that you are still responsible for your behavior when you're drunk. I think we are on the same page in that people who enthusiastically consent to sex when they are drunk, and their partner is drunk are not being raped.

The problem is that this argument is not really... relevant. It's used so people will say that drunk girls who have consensual sex with people and regret it are not being raped. What people are forgetting is that being drunk causes you to make bad decisions, and that men (and women is small minority) will rape people when they are drunk. And that happens much more often than the first scenario, so why do we argue for the first when it is statistically less likely?

Jan 13 2013 11:30PM

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Insane

I don't think anybody is arguing "for" the first; ideally there is no rape/false rape to speak of. However, the fact that false rape reporting is as high as it is, along with the seriousness of the allegations makes one wary of jumping to the conclusion that the victim is indeed a victim, EVEN if it's statistically 75:25 in terms of 'true: DNA exoneration' (as I posted earlier).

Put simply, just because it's an obvious majority in favour of real reporting, the minority is sadly still a significant number and given this it's always going to come into the discussion. After all, going away for many years for a crime you didn't commit, having your reputation destroyed and your life irreparably set back is worse (in my view) than being raped.

Jan 13 2013 11:47PM

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Mr.Sloth

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Did someone ask for a raping sloth?
Because that's just redundant.

Jan 14 2013 7:36AM

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Mr.Sloth

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I return with a handful of rape sloth memes.
Enjoy.

Jan 14 2013 9:51AM

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Woman_are_equal

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Lame

i dont think that were so much neglecting the issue as we are talking apples and oranges. anyone who wants to make any type of argument for the assailants in the story you just talked about is fucked in the head. it is undeniable that they are sick, abominable people and what they did to that poor woman makes me sick to my stomach.

i think with this rape culture, especially in the context of this thread, we are talking about a different situation. roofies, unconscious girls who are not able to give consent, completely inebriated girls being taken advantage of. now this are all as morally reprehensible as the attack you posted about, but they happen in a different setting. they happen at public events. high school parties, college parties, etc. and i think when we analyze those situations alone the ratio of false accusations to true ones is much closer, granted im sure, unfortunately, many true ones go unreported.

its a two sided coin. i wont bore anyone with the details, but a friend of mine recently was arrested for sexual assault. the girls mother convinced her daughter it was the right thing to do. why? because she found out her perfect little angel is away at college losing her already lost innocence. 5 hours after the arrest she dropped the charges because she felt so bad. no one taunted her. no one called her names. she knew she wasnt assaulted. unfortunately for my friend, his first semester was disturbed greatly in the middle of finals, he was kicked out of his dorm, and he was a sexual assault arrest on his record. it is exactly that kind of scenario that reminds us we need to take all aspects into consideration. it is extremely unfair to either party to just assume one side is right versus the other.

Jan 14 2013 10:11AM

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