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Torturing murderers.

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Jeebus.
Posts: 4904 - Karma: 5,822
Yes, torture is wrong but so is killing innocent children / people. I think we need to bring back torture for fuckheads like these kids, because simply killing them or putting them in prison is not enough, these people need to suffer.
Dec 14 2012 4:16PM
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Amadeus.
Posts: 3050 - Karma: 382
No. We live in civilized Western society. The government does not decide who gets tortured or who dies. That is now how civilized people act. Leave barbarism to barbarians and criminals.
Dec 14 2012 4:18PM
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Jeebus.
Posts: 4904 - Karma: 5,822
So criminals can make us all suffer, but we can't do the same to them? Personally i feel that if you commit something like this, all of your rights go out the window.
Dec 14 2012 4:22PM
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Petey.
Posts: 5736 - Karma: 4,881
I'd have zero problem with this. I'm insensitive enough so that I could gladly do the heinous tortures.
Dec 14 2012 4:23PM
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Charlie_Kelly
Posts: 11953 - Karma: 12,297
an eye for an eye makes the world go blind. Trust me, prison is not a fun time for most people. Being confined to a cell for 25+ years where you are stuck thinking about what you've done is fine. Torturing is fucked and the fact that you even suggest it is a little disconcerting. I do believe we should use the death penalty more frequently though, especially if these criminals don't contribute anything to society.
Dec 14 2012 4:25PM
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Amadeus.
Posts: 3050 - Karma: 382
Criminals are removed from society for their entire life or for an extended period of time. We do not stoop to their level and engage in criminal acts. That is the definition of hypocrisy. It is never okay to Murder or torture, and as soon as we start making exceptions it becomes a slippery slope.
Dec 14 2012 4:25PM
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Dragonite.
Posts: 1657 - Karma: 431
Torturing crimials would just make others angry. It's inhumane and there's no reason for it. Do you think the families would be happier if their child's murderer was torture? No.
Dec 14 2012 4:26PM
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.Apex.
Posts: 2097 - Karma: 1,556
This is stupid, what would come from torturing them to death. The majority of these people have serious mental disorders that are overlooked. Torturing them wont help the families of those lost. Look into what this came from and address the problems of the attacker and make treatment for mental disorders a larger topic of interest and investment to stop this type of thing from happening again.
Dec 14 2012 4:27PM
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Petey.
Posts: 5736 - Karma: 4,881
You think they would rather pay tax money to support their existence in prison until they die? LOL nope! People need to stop with that BS about stooping down to their "level". There's evil in everyone, what brings it out in us is another story. If you can't handle destroying evil by evil means, I'm sorry for you.
Dec 14 2012 4:29PM
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max...
Posts: 1379 - Karma: 801
how about instead of focusing on the criminals, we take some time to think about the victims, their families, and the communities they live in? they are the ones who matter right now. let's not use something so terrible as a platform to promote our own beliefs.
Dec 14 2012 4:29PM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
obviously, for these cases, one "could" make this argument. but where do you draw the line? killing 5, 10, 20 people? killing less people but more brutal?

we should be proud as living in western civilizations to have come so far to not have to torture people anymore. obviously, jail is also a kind of torture, psychologically, but i really think that the moment a government tortures its inhabitants, it loses all legitimacy.

think of all the regimes that you despise, north korea, iran and going back in history maos china, soviet russia and nazi germany, all countries where basic human rights were not existent and because of that they are generally looked at in despise.

Dec 14 2012 4:29PM
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Jeebus.
Posts: 4904 - Karma: 5,822
Yes, personally i would be happier, call me insensitive but i actually do believe in Hamurabi's Code to some extent. I strongly believe in capital punishment.
Dec 14 2012 4:29PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,500
do you have any idea whats going to happen to this guy when he goes to prison he's going to get raped and beat every day. when i was out in a the toombs in NY i saw some dude get cut with a razor blade because he was being charged with raping a kid
Dec 14 2012 4:30PM
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Jeebus.
Posts: 4904 - Karma: 5,822
.
Dec 14 2012 4:30PM
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Charlie_Kelly
Posts: 11953 - Karma: 12,297
but what would torturing accomplish? nothing. Sure you would get the satisfaction of causing pain to someone who may have hurt you in some way but thats it. and thats selfish. please don't try to justify torturing because no good can come of it.
Dec 14 2012 4:30PM
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Stickity
Posts: 7750 - Karma: 769
THE BOATS.
Dec 14 2012 4:31PM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
this shit is around 5000 years old. come on man
Dec 14 2012 4:31PM
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Amadeus.
Posts: 3050 - Karma: 382
lol
Dec 14 2012 4:32PM
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Jeebus.
Posts: 4904 - Karma: 5,822
Yeah, we can only hope that the killer gets the Jeffery Dahmer treatment apon arrival to jail.
Dec 14 2012 4:32PM
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TallerThanThou
Posts: 615 - Karma: 13
I can't take you seriously because of your icon.
Dec 14 2012 4:32PM
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Dragonite.
Posts: 1657 - Karma: 431
There's the death penalty. That's not torture. Worthy of a mass murderer. And I'm sure he would have been sentenced to death if he didn't take his own life first.
Dec 14 2012 4:32PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,500
meant to say when i was in the tombs in nyc shut up i just had a 3 hour final.
Dec 14 2012 4:33PM
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Jeebus.
Posts: 4904 - Karma: 5,822
But a lot of states don't still have the death penalty, which is just pathetic.
Dec 14 2012 4:34PM
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Amadeus.
Posts: 3050 - Karma: 382
i know i was just laughing at the situation cause you told me about it the other day.
Dec 14 2012 4:35PM
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Petey.
Posts: 5736 - Karma: 4,881
I agree with you on this but I feel as though this country is FAR too hesitant to use the death penalty. It needs to be instated in every state within the USA, and crimes like this should be no-question, hurried and incredibly painful in their last moments. I'd like to see a lot more gas chamber and electric chair usage - otherwise recidivism rates will never change.
Dec 14 2012 4:36PM
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bangarangmules
Posts: 5065 - Karma: 84
People bringing up the financial issues...the death penalty is more expensive than life in prison with no chance of parole in most cases.
Dec 14 2012 4:36PM
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Charlie_Kelly
Posts: 11953 - Karma: 12,297
NH reppin hanging, and Im pretty sure we have the option for a firing squad as well. GOOL.
Dec 14 2012 4:37PM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conventions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Declaration_of_Human_Rights

anyone who is in favor of torture should really read up on these two things. the fact that human rights are de facto binding for EVERY COUNTRY (even if they havent signed these treaties) should say enough.


there is 0 alternative to it. absolutely 0. present a model on how you would treat criminals differentiated by the gravity of their crimes and you will soon see that there is no way to accomplish this.

Dec 14 2012 4:38PM
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Jeebus.
Posts: 4904 - Karma: 5,822
Is it now? i remember back in my great state of new hampshire several years ago they hung a cop killer, i call bullshit on your claim, Wood, rope, nails, 400$ tops.
Dec 14 2012 4:39PM
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Jeebus.
Posts: 4904 - Karma: 5,822
Which is why we need to change it.
Dec 14 2012 4:39PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51274 - Karma: 157,678
Yeah! You're such a badass bro. Also weren't you the one talking about torturing the wrong person and calling him names in the other thread?


You're the man bro.
Dec 14 2012 4:41PM
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Drail
Posts: 14011 - Karma: 10,001
Think about this.

I honestly don't think there is evil in everyone. We are an animal, just like all other animals on this planet. Sure, we may be smart and can build tools and have complex societies, but I have always believed that there has never been one single human being in the history of humans that was 'born evil'.

Being 'evil' is a result of the society they lived in. Instead of killing them or torturing them, we, as a society, should deal with the person from a mental health point of view. Treatment is always better than imprisonment. In a country with around 5% of the worlds population they have almost 25% of the worlds incarcerated, torture can not be the answer.

This is an insane statistic, and it is reflects very poorly on how America deals with crime and punishment.

Dec 14 2012 4:43PM
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Thadius.Castle
Posts: 1436 - Karma: 250
I absolutely agree. The Penal System in America is far to lenient take a look at European countries, Germany, Austria, Russia, France to an extent. Prisons there as tough as shit, they make the wangsters, gangsters, mexican wannabes, and everyone else look like child's play.

Institute the death penalty in every state, and make the Prison System much more rigid. But we can't forget that the School's security was probably horrid. And why should it need security? We live in a "civilized" society, this shouldn't be a problem. But it is.

I think there needs to be at least one Police Resource Officer per school, this is basically a Police officer who goes a step further into education of his trade/etc. That would certainly help.
Dec 14 2012 4:44PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51274 - Karma: 157,678
OP sounds like the kind of ignorant douche that would stir up a mob and lynch the wrong guy. Glad you're just a kid posting on the internet and don't have any control over our legal system.

Dec 14 2012 4:45PM
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J-C
Posts: 1138 - Karma: 3,683
dropping the soap is already enough torture
Dec 14 2012 4:47PM
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Jeebus.
Posts: 4904 - Karma: 5,822
I got as much control as you buddy. Sorry to burst your bubble.
Dec 14 2012 4:47PM
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Petey.
Posts: 5736 - Karma: 4,881
Interesting, the potential for evil resides in everyone (better?). Maybe someone hurt a specific member of your family in a way that set you off in a manner you never though possible. Or perhaps a series of events led to a result that sent you over the edge, etc. My point is, just because most of us appear to be normal, every one of us can be made to kill. I honestly believe that is not arguable.
Dec 14 2012 4:49PM
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do.a.rodeo
Posts: 270 - Karma: -30
Exactly.
Dec 14 2012 4:51PM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
seriously dude, i cant take you seriosly when you think that in general austrian and german prisons are tougher than those in the US. i know there are several dozens of approaches and systems in place, but austria has nice prisons.


but dont forget the psychological effect of being locked up. you cant do what you want. youre locked away from society and nothing else matters. i dont care whether or not they have a cheese buffet after dinner or metallica concerts or whatever. they are locked up and thats good. there is a prison probably a mile away from where i live during the semester in innsbruck, austria, our football (gridiron, fyi) training is like 300 meters away and i know what i am talking about.
Dec 14 2012 4:51PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51274 - Karma: 157,678
1.Makes a post
2.Post makes no sense
3. Does not pass go
4. Does not profit
Dec 14 2012 4:51PM
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Jeebus.
Posts: 4904 - Karma: 5,822
good one.
Dec 14 2012 4:55PM
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LIL_WAT
Posts: 1900 - Karma: 475
ALL rights? What about a right to a fair trial??
Dec 14 2012 4:59PM
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AGOF
Posts: 2038 - Karma: 3,602
i am not sure if i am for or against it. i mean, sure maybe in special cases, but who wants to decide that case by case, the only reason i would be for it is not for retribution on those who commited crimes but another reason to not commit those crimes, are you gonna go shoot up a school if you know you are gonna spend the next 2 months in the most excruciating pain possible?
Dec 14 2012 5:00PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51274 - Karma: 157,678
OP is either a child or a douche. Good chance of both. Internet tough guy.
Dec 14 2012 5:00PM
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Drail
Posts: 14011 - Karma: 10,001
Agreed. The problem with that is that you can look at it the other way as well. If the potential for evil resides in everyone, naturally the potential for someone who has turned 'evil' has the potential to be good, no? Torturing and killing someone instead of trying to help them WOULD bring us down to the realm of 'evil' ourselves, and if that's the case, should the person doing the torturing deserve to be tortured themselves?

Say your kid went off the deep and and did something 'evil', but COULD be brought back mentally to be 'good'. The person or people who decided to torture the kid instead of help him would be doing something pretty evil, and to your own child! Does this give you the right to torture them for torturing your kid instead of helping them? See what I mean? It's a slippery slope, and everything can be looked at from a different angle.

“Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.” J.R.R. Tolkien
Dec 14 2012 5:01PM
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volvotom
Posts: 2045 - Karma: 712
No cruel and unusual punishment is a part of our Constitution, which is very difficult to amend (on purpose).
Dec 14 2012 5:02PM
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HWW
Posts: 3084 - Karma: 3,436
This is a pretty strong argument.
Dec 14 2012 5:02PM
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Charlie_Kelly
Posts: 11953 - Karma: 12,297
Though I agree with this right, our justice system is so flawed you can never be certain if you can put away "the bad guy". Look at OJ Simpson for christs sake. Got away with first degree murder.
Dec 14 2012 5:04PM
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Jeebus.
Posts: 4904 - Karma: 5,822
And you with all your OP is a.. comments must be a genius, if you have nothing else to say I'm sorry that you're so immature than you have to resort to that. Internet tough guy? ironic.
Dec 14 2012 5:05PM
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saskskier
Posts: 4772 - Karma: 9,984
If for whatever reason torture was available to people who it heinous crimes, who does the torturing? What kind of sick person do you need to be to be willing to do that for a paycheque? You think because you've watched Saw and maybe a few episodes of 24, you are willing to torture another human being. There is no way around the fact that it would seriously mess people up and we already have enough messed up people in the world.
Dec 14 2012 5:07PM
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Jeebus.
Posts: 4904 - Karma: 5,822
Whats sicker killing 20 kindergartens or torturing the man responsible for the crime?
Dec 14 2012 5:08PM
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