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Military Spending

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JeremyClarkson
Posts: 1599 - Karma: 1,934

Americas military accounts for 40% of total world arms spending. Sitting at just over 1 trillion dollars it is 20% of our federal budget. Should we Increase of Decrease? Discuss.

Dec 10 2012 1:17PM
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accualyisdolan
Posts: 3295 - Karma: -192
You rustled?
Dec 11 2012 12:03AM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
The military is cutting a TON already.

However, from my limited perspective I get the sense that there are lots of improvements that could be made to efficiency on the lower levels that could save a ton. For example, there are some changes to airfield management procedures we could make at our current base that could get jets off the ground faster. We burn thousands and thousands of pounds of gas on the ground every year. Millions down the toilet and that's one base! These are all lowly LT observations from the jet though, I could certainly be missing big picture stuff. It's just a theory.
Dec 11 2012 12:14AM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51263 - Karma: 157,455
Our military budget is retardedly huge.
Dec 11 2012 12:29AM
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volvotom
Posts: 2045 - Karma: 712
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/06/under-obama-a-record-decline-in-government-jobs/

Would you care to respond?




Dec 11 2012 12:31AM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
Duh.

Do you have something to contribute?
Dec 11 2012 12:33AM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51263 - Karma: 157,455
Go fuck yourself?

The way you posted implied they've been cutting it down to a reasonable level at least that's the way it read.

Our military budget should be at least cut in half.
Dec 11 2012 12:40AM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
Actually I didn't say that at all or imply it in any way. Stop putting words in my mouth to support yourself. It makes your argument weak, like middle school weak.

In half you say? I'd like to hear more about that theory, I think it's extreme but may be feasible. We'd have to be much more effective per capita to do it.
Dec 11 2012 12:58AM
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brosephstalin
Posts: 429 - Karma: 8
why do americans want to go to war with Iran then?
Dec 11 2012 1:04AM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
We don't......
Dec 11 2012 1:07AM
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brosephstalin
Posts: 429 - Karma: 8
the us military must be complete shit if it needs 10 times the funding of chinese and russians and is still whining for government handouts

that's what i don't get about rightwingers. they throw a hissy fit if a poor person gets a food stamp but they couldn't care less about the biggest entitlement program on the planet aka the us military

Dec 11 2012 1:08AM
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brosephstalin
Posts: 429 - Karma: 8
i'm glad you don't
Dec 11 2012 1:10AM
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ILLinoisance
Posts: 3527 - Karma: 5,398
Oh yeah, just speak for the whole country. There are a shit ton of rednecks that think bombing Iran would be a great idea.
Dec 11 2012 1:10AM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
To contribute to this point and put things in perspective, the Air Force uses about $6 BILLION a year in fuel cost alone. I'd be very interested to research the possibility of cutting waste in that category.
Dec 11 2012 1:10AM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
I don't have to, the political officials the majority voted for have decided not go to war with Iran. What's your point? Do you want them to want to go to war? What are you trying to prove right now? Your country is primarily ignorant rednecks? I don't believe that and I don't understand why anyone would insist on proving that.....
Dec 11 2012 1:13AM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51263 - Karma: 157,455
Lol whatever. I didn't even start to make an argument. And that's how it came off.

Putting words in your mouth? Lol nope. I could run the mile in 7:08 in 3rd grade. That's a champion right there. (I don't even lift though)

And not that extreme. I'm also advocating some MASSIVE changes in our foreign policy.


If it was a defense budget instead of miscellaneous spending for all kinds of global tyranny, we wouldn't need nearly the money we budget.


I mean seriously, how many of these military escapades had anything to do with keeping our country safe.
Dec 11 2012 1:13AM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
What does any of that blabber have to do with my post.....?
Dec 11 2012 1:16AM
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ILLinoisance
Posts: 3527 - Karma: 5,398
No, I am just saying that a good deal of people in this country would want to go to war with / bomb Iran. You brought in elected officials when they weren't even being discussed.
Dec 11 2012 1:21AM
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ILLinoisance
Posts: 3527 - Karma: 5,398
I agree, but the exact opposite can be said about the left-wingers too....
Dec 11 2012 1:23AM
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ILLinoisance
Posts: 3527 - Karma: 5,398
How about we don't fly as much? This could be aided by bringing our troops back home from the multiple countries that we occupy and by building a strong military structure within our own borders....
Dec 11 2012 1:25AM
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PeppermillReno
Posts: 4751 - Karma: -564
Free healthcare would be better.

But the fact is most people are uptight haters and think they are sorted since they have a job which gives them it with shitty co pays (and they'd be fired immediately if something serious went down.)

Same people would much rather waste money on the military than enable poor people to sit on their ass and not work.

So the military stays.

There are plenty of positives to military spending. One is that unsuccessful men peeps can always sign up to fight instead of applying to mcdonalds. Its a big employer. I am all for keeping this. But its pretty wasteful.


Dec 11 2012 1:29AM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
Well Obama sets the tone for massive changes in foreign policy. Where should he start? I feel like he's generally kept clear of new conflicts. He also took office at the start of draw down in the Middle East and troops over there have decreased so far. I personally thought we handled Libya (for example) well, mostly just muscle flexing and no serious involvement. It would be great to continue drawing down and empowering our allies in the Middle East to handle their own problems. I fly with Afghan, Saudi, and many other country's students every day and that's the perspective I have at least (they pay for them to train with us).
Dec 11 2012 1:30AM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
Ya that is the easy answer for sure, but even if those guys were at home they would be flying a lot of hours. You have to stay in the jet to maintain proficiency because you lose your skills very quickly without consistent practice. AKA, no matter how nice the airplane is, it's ineffective if the pilot/crew are struggling to employ it.

The Air Force has invested in much nicer simulators though, and those save a ton I'm sure. The tanker/airlift sort of folk spend way more hours than they'd like to playing computer games and not actually flying.
Dec 11 2012 1:36AM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51263 - Karma: 157,455
That part of that war was winding down anyway and not really. It's not like he's promoting peace. Even if we had the money I think we've been involving ourselves WAYYY too much in other peoples shit. I just think it's a sad trend to see America so wrapped up in.

With how completely broke we are I think it's fucking mind blowingly ridiculous that we're spending dumb amounts of money on foreign aid.

It's like somebody that's in massive debt but has a credit card, oh bro don't worry about this I got you, I'll buy all your stuff for you no big deal. We just keep borrowing money and what we don't borrow or tax for we simply print.

Even if people thought the things we were doing around the world were completely legit, we simply don't have the money. We spend money as though there's an infinite supply. (I guess there is thanks to the feds printing press)

When I look at American's, especially this time of year, it makes it all too easy to see how we can be down with these kinds of policies. Fuck, that's how most people live. Don't have the money? Charge that shit.

Debt doesn't matter, just let that shit ride, no big deal.


We need to get out of all this bullshit that doesn't concern us, cut some costs and really get our country back on track. Unfortunately it may never happen because people are dumb and a good portion of what needs to be cut are gov programs/agencies. (some cut, some overhauled) The government likes it's tentacles in every facet of society, and doesn't take kindly to people trying to squash it's power.


= we're fucked.


My $2.22
Dec 11 2012 1:52AM
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YoungDaysMedia
Posts: 1591 - Karma: 1,400
as a european i find that cap disrespectful

you cant claim to be to champion of somthing so destructive
America came out the war 10x more powerful than they entered, the war never hit home like it did in europe. The US fought a home abroad without with none of its citizens (except pearl harour) in the firing line

both world wars destroyed Europe totally eocnomoically and moraly and generations were wiped out. You may call yourselves the ''champions'' but honsetly we were just glad for it to be over

No disrescpect towards america i general, its just that a minority of testosteren fueled and die hard patriots give your country a negative view in our side of the world

sorry for long post, i usually dont get into long elaborations on ns


Dec 11 2012 8:12AM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627

Oh were you? 

Jesus fucking christ, how old are you?  If its under 70, shut the hell up. 

Dec 11 2012 8:14AM
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Peach.
Posts: 3879 - Karma: 933
I completely agree with you.
Dec 11 2012 8:48AM
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YoungDaysMedia
Posts: 1591 - Karma: 1,400
everyone is entitled to their own opinion and i respect that

however blatantly screaming at me to shut up just re-inforces my opinion even more about the USA


Dec 11 2012 9:12AM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627

lol...  Somebody missed naptime. 

Dec 11 2012 9:24AM
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Zimmerman
Posts: 6992 - Karma: 1,021

Kill it with fire!

But seriously. The amount of defense/military spending we have is unbelievable. I'd say most of it is pointless and completely wasteful. It could be going to much more useful stuff. It really should be cut by over 50% and there is absolutely no reason we need to spend more than the next 17 countries combined.

Dec 11 2012 9:37AM
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Benedetto.
Posts: 2526 - Karma: 64
I believe the obvious answer of decrease.

The real question is the direction we're going. No one should have nukes. That should not be an option.

As a country plan for 'war', we should shift to a true defense. Complete opposite from the invasion on Iraq and Afghanistan. We're playing offense acting like police.

This is a decade war on oil, heroin, control and money so the 1% can feel secure.

My background: Navy Seabee veteran and Operation New Dawn veteran
Dec 11 2012 9:41AM
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PASKIINGSUCKS
Posts: 9097 - Karma: 777
For starters as an american I also find that hat a bit disrespectful.

On the other hand though your spouting off about the US is a bit disrespectful as well.

I think you mean no US civilians were in the firing line, becuase US military sure as hell got into danger over there just like everyone else involved in those wars.

Maybe you'd like to see how morally and economically europe would have been affected had the US not entered either of those wars huh??

I don't approve of all the world police BS we do now, but don't tell me that all the nations of the world wars wanted none of our help in WW1 and WW2 because the world map would be a hell of a lot different these days had we sat at home and done nothing.

I do agree though that our military spending could be heavily cut in this country and we would be essentially as safe as we are now.

Sidenote: I had an odd dream the other night that made me wonder something. If we ever do attempt to inhabit the moon, how long do you think it will be before we are having military drills up there??? 100 years?? 200 years??
Dec 11 2012 10:26AM
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Zimmerman
Posts: 6992 - Karma: 1,021
I'd hope never. We've already fucked up earth enough with our violence and property. I
Dec 11 2012 10:59AM
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YoungDaysMedia
Posts: 1591 - Karma: 1,400
there is no doubt in my mind that there is 90% chance Europe would have been lost to the germans without US help (although hitler being a shit military leader did help)

But the US mainly fought a war abroad (especially in the european theatre, to a lesser exetent in the pacific) they didnt have the wholesale destruction that most cities witnessed in Europe (warsaw, Dresden, Stalingrad and London being the highlights)

Europe was damm well destroyed at the end of the world wars (i admit that without US aid there porbabaly would have being nothing left) but the US came out of both wars a hell of a lot stronger (although the american public felt the effetcst of the war indriectly through all the lost soldiers that never came home)

my problem isn't with the idea that we never needed Americas help its just that i dont find it repsectful to gloat about how America is a double world champion of something so terrible.

War in the 20-21st century is glorious, its mass destruction even as victors you need to respect the victims

ahahah as i write this im actually realising how pointless this arguement is

I guess just seeing that cap with the that writing and the bald eagle on it just made me a little sad.
Dec 11 2012 11:44AM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
Dude, it's a hat. That's it.

It was designed to be ridiculously ignorant, nothing more. It's a joke, and you're the first person from any country I've seen take it so seriously. We don't take it seriously, so you shouldn't either. Have fun today, go ahead and laugh even!
Dec 11 2012 11:52AM
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lands11
Posts: 1818 - Karma: 1,677
Click for larger image

Don't care if it's over used, it's relevant
Dec 11 2012 11:53AM
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Dragonite.
Posts: 1657 - Karma: 431
Precisely
Dec 11 2012 12:39PM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627

Dude.  It's a fucking JOKE. 

Get over yourself.  You're seriously no better than the people losing their shit over a mohammad cartoon if you're gonna get your jimmies rustled by a parody.  That's all I was really getting at. 

Besides, WWII jokes are all the rage these days ann frankly, I'm tired of people- esecially those who are a half century removed from the atrocities they speak of- taking themselves so cereally.  It's just stupid.  Now can we move along and maybe even loosen our collective sphincters enough to crack a smile?  I sure hope so. 

Dec 11 2012 1:06PM
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PASKIINGSUCKS
Posts: 9097 - Karma: 777
I hate to be a debbie downer my friend, but as long as there are people there will be weapons and war. As long as there is land and resources there will be people fighting over it.

This higher ground thinking that humans will evolve past greed and violence is a pipe dream if you ask me. I mean we're doing much better than in the past but I don't truly think it will ever end.
Dec 11 2012 1:25PM
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Drail
Posts: 14011 - Karma: 10,001
while reading OP, this is all that came to mind.

Dec 11 2012 1:33PM
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accualyisdolan
Posts: 3295 - Karma: -192
Wether or not Obama or bush added more is not relevant. If bush had today's economy he would be cutting gov jobs as sure a thing as u being a mama bird
Dec 11 2012 1:41PM
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klayer_9
Posts: 2037 - Karma: 188
.
Dec 11 2012 1:46PM
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brosephstalin
Posts: 429 - Karma: 8
don't forget the destruction on the Asian and African continents as well. The Soviet Union, China, Japan, etc lost millions.
Dec 11 2012 1:48PM
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Twinjibber77
Posts: 6239 - Karma: 2,356
More defense spending = Cooler Facebook Pics = Me getting laid more.

Win.
Dec 11 2012 1:56PM
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brosephstalin
Posts: 429 - Karma: 8
please don't bore us with that old ahistorical "you'd be speaking german if it weren't for us" tripe. have you even studied ww2 history bro?

the Soviets had turned the tide decisively against the Germans a year before d-day. the US and British wanted the Soviets to do the grunt work and they sure did. ww2 wasn't won on the beaches of normandy, it was won on the steppes of european russia. the Soviets fought for their life against a vicious Nazi invader. many high profile US businessmen and politicians had heaped praise upon Nazi Germany for its socio-economic model and method for destroying the political Left.

the anglo-americans really didn't care about the nazi camps until they saw them in west germany even though the soviets had been telling them about the nazis extermination techniques against slavs and jews in the ukraine, belarus, baltic countries, russia, etc.


Dec 11 2012 1:57PM
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accualyisdolan
Posts: 3295 - Karma: -192
Shut up you Russian tool. You know your ak47?
It's a modified German weapon. No good marketable technology has ever come out of your worthless nation. So think about that as you fap to the red flag... Think about that...
Dec 11 2012 2:04PM
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YoungDaysMedia
Posts: 1591 - Karma: 1,400
everyone entitled to their own opinion, i spend enough time on NSG to know that, i also know that most point of views will be attacked. I guess i shouldn't be so serious its newschoolers after all ahaha

sorry i came on a bit extremist i guess the subject touches home a little since my great uncle got deported to Germany (never heard of again) and my grandmother can still remeber the german planes bombing my home village




Dec 11 2012 2:06PM
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brosephstalin
Posts: 429 - Karma: 8
the only reason the anglo-americans decided to open a second front and invade western europe was so they'd be able to brutally suppress popular communist movements and keep their fascist buddies in power when the war was over. especially in italy, the cia and nato laundered money to former colleagues of mussolini and other neo-fascist organizations. these neo-fascist organizations carried out terrorist attacks against socialist and communist politicians and activists in the 70's and 80's.

mussolini was a US favorite, to bad hitler couldn't keep the japanese out of the east pacific, then the nazi's would have had the full blessing of the anglo-americans to carry out their genocide against religious and ethnic minorities and the Political Left.
Dec 11 2012 2:06PM
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brosephstalin
Posts: 429 - Karma: 8
soviet union =//= russia, retarded yank

don't you have some business to take care of with your cousin, you inbred jizz-stain
Dec 11 2012 2:07PM
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accualyisdolan
Posts: 3295 - Karma: -192
You rustled?
Dec 11 2012 2:10PM
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ILLinoisance
Posts: 3527 - Karma: 5,398
Hey, just curious how you're all pro-communism and USSR while living in Utah. Like, were you born in a socialist/communist nation? Are you just trolling hard?
Dec 11 2012 2:16PM
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