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"cinema tools" application for premiere pro

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m3owzza
Posts: 411 - Karma: 4,528
hey

so i just got adobe premiere pro cs6

i used to have final cut that used cinema tools to conform the slow motion near perfectly

does adobe have an application like that, or am i just going to have to deal with, what i call, the mediocre way of slowing things down? I understand that people use that way to slow clips down but i REALLY like using cinema tools and the way the videos turn out

by the way im not changing because i want to, but my work upgraded to PC and are using adobe
Dec 4 2012 4:08PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
I would like to know the proper way to do this in Premiere as well, since I'm inevitably going to have to switch. And I prefer the accuracy of a dedicated frame rate application rather than having an NLE use crappy timeline algorithms that cause problems.
Dec 4 2012 4:23PM
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.qzyxya
Posts: 1479 - Karma: -26
I'm pretty sure you can just right click on the clip and do speed/duration and then change it to whatever speed you want. Or you can conform the clip (say from 60fps to 24fps, for 40% speed) by right clicking in the project panel on the clip and going modify > interpret footage and then selecting the frame rate you want. I think you can also drop a say 60fps clip into a timeline thats another framerate like 30fps or 24fps and it will convert it to that frame rate, so the 1 second in 60fps is 2.5 in 24fps (essentially the same as doing 40% speed in a 60fps comp or interpreting the footage as 24fps)
Dec 4 2012 4:29PM
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.qzyxya
Posts: 1479 - Karma: -26
not quite sure what cinema tools does exactly, since im on a PC and have only used fcp a couple times, but to slow down footage in premiere you basically have to interpret it as another frame rate, by right clicking in the project panel and doing modify > interpret footage. That way, it converts the 1 second of 60fps or whatever other frame rate to the 2 seconds of 30fps footage, or 2.5 of 24p footage Also, you can just right click the clip in the time line and do speed/duration and change it there. You might be able to use adobe media encoder or after effects to convert the framerates somehow but im not sure
Dec 4 2012 4:32PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
I know After Effects has been much better with frame rates than Premiere in older versions, but I don't know how effective the new Premiere's timeline algorithms are. Hopefully it's been redesigned because last time I tried it was shameful.
Dec 4 2012 5:07PM
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m3owzza
Posts: 411 - Karma: 4,528
i dont mean to be rude, but i have seen a lot of shit posts and amateur mis-leading information from QZYXYA. I don't exactly want to trust you and I know that landis has been around for a very long time and is quite knowledgeable

I guess my question would be is that can a program like mpeg streamclip "conform" my videos files like cinema tools did? if not, then, like i stated earlier, what else can i do to workaround this problem?
Dec 4 2012 5:14PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
I haven't used it since switching from my 7D, but if I remember correctly it only converts frame rates, not conforms. That is, it can only drop extra frames without changing the playback speed, but it cannot conform the playback speed in order to achieve slow motion. so if you "convert" 60p to 23.98, you will get choppy looking 23.98 (regular speed). If you "conform" 60p to 23.98 all original 60 frames are being played back at a slower frame rate, which by definition is how slow motion is achieved.
Dec 4 2012 5:18PM
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m3owzza
Posts: 411 - Karma: 4,528
exactly. thank you for clearing that up. really hoping for something that compares to cinema tools, especially for my jobs sake
Dec 4 2012 5:23PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
Me too. For now FCP does everything I need and more, but I bemoan the day when it stops supporting whatever I'll be using, and I will have to stop using Cinema Tools.
Dec 4 2012 5:28PM
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WhatPlantsCrave
Posts: 20 - Karma: 15
just get twixtor and call it good.  that is the best way I have found to create slow motion clips that are smooth if you have a camera that is shooting less than 120fps
Dec 4 2012 5:29PM
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TWoods
Posts: 10014 - Karma: 8,385
Because you're new here, I'm going to politely step in before anyone else does and say "NO"

Just so you know, you won't receive hate for being a snowboarder - but there's some really knowledgeable people in here, and the questions are very specific. If you don't REALLY know the best answer to a problem, I would suggest that you wait for an answer and learn from it rather than suggest "this is what I do"

Also, twixtor is a terrible program for the most part. Sometimes it works but 99 percent of the time it produces really bad images. I would suggest avoiding it if possible.
Dec 4 2012 5:41PM
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WhatPlantsCrave
Posts: 20 - Karma: 15
ok i apolgize I didn't know i wasn't allowed to post my preferred methods.  personally using twixtor I have gained better results than the built in speed and conforming.  just my $.02

For myself twixtor has done great, its not as simple as just lowering the speed though, a lot needs to go into it to make it work properly.
Dec 4 2012 5:48PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
Using Twixtor as a primary method of conforming frame rates is bad advice. It uses a sampling algorithm that retimes and resamples the frames differently in order to achieve a novelty effect that should be used conservatively. While it may technically "work," it is not an ideal replacement for a bare-bones, workhorse application like Cinema Tools, which simply reassigns the playback speed without any convoluted processing or resampling.

Twixtor has it's uses, and I'm not refuting that, but this isn't one of them. You're essentially suggesting that he kill a fly with a shotgun.
Dec 4 2012 5:55PM
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WhatPlantsCrave
Posts: 20 - Karma: 15
fair enough, cinema tools does have many great features that I wish Premiere had.

If you do find a plug in, or another method of conforming/slowing clips on premiere I would be very interested in it.
Dec 4 2012 6:06PM
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.qzyxya
Posts: 1479 - Karma: -26
So what exactly did cinema tools do? My workflow is just create a 24p comp, and then drop in the files I want to slow down in there, and then it slows them down to 40% speed.
If you would bother to read my post and not just assume that its wrong you would tell that you can just right click on the file and go modify > interpret footage. Then change the frame rate to whatever you want to conform it to.
Dec 4 2012 6:33PM
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.qzyxya
Posts: 1479 - Karma: -26
I'm just going to paste in what I said earlier...
"you can conform the clip (say from 60fps to 24fps, for 40% speed) by right clicking in the project panel on the clip and going modify > interpret footage and then selecting the frame rate you want."
This way it treats it as if its 24p footage (it conforms it to 24p, conforming it to 24p. That way its at 40% slow motion and plays back all 60 frames over 2.5 seconds.

If you don't want to take my advice because you think i'm automatically wrong, whatever, figure it out yourself. But test it out, it works. Another way to do it is to simply drop the 60fps footage into a 30p or 24p comp and it will automatically conform it for you.
B
Dec 4 2012 6:41PM
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TWoods
Posts: 10014 - Karma: 8,385
Intentionally misrepresenting what I said to you, when I was being courteous rather than tearing you apart for suggesting something as fucking stupid as you did is not a way to make friends, dumbass.
Dec 4 2012 7:10PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
No offense dude, but the reason people don't want to take your advice is because every single one of your posts that I've seen has been meaningless regurgitation borne upon tenuous reading comprehension (to put it nicely).

We know how to slow down footage in Premiere. That isn't what this thread is about at all. Video software tend to have very complex and idiosyncratic coding mechanisms that are not visible at the surface level, and contributing an answer as shallow as yours only indicates that you know how to read a manual, which everyone here is already capable of.
Dec 4 2012 7:19PM
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m3owzza
Posts: 411 - Karma: 4,528
holy jesus this. thank you.
Dec 4 2012 7:24PM
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.qzyxya
Posts: 1479 - Karma: -26
Ok, whatever. It seemed like the OP didn't know how to conform frame rates in premiere, so I explained how to do it. Doesn't interpreting the footage as 24p effectively conform it to 24p? I thought thats what the op wanted, something like cinema tools or mpeg streamclip to conform his footage inside of premiere/adobe cs6 suite?I know nothing about the inner workings and coding stuff with the program, but that method works fine for me. And doesn't cinema tools do the same thing, conforming footage from one frame rate to another, to get slow motion (or sped up motion)?
Dec 4 2012 7:39PM
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eheath
Posts: 61107 - Karma: 118,279
Qfag said it in his first post, but the last part about droping a 60p shot into 24p would conform it is wrong, the NLE will just drop 36 frames and make it 24p.


That being said, since no one can read, this is how you conform in premier.

Right click clip -> interpret footage -> change frame rate to 23.98 or 24 or whatever you want. It does the same thing as Cine tools, just inside premier and then your original clip is unchanged.
Dec 4 2012 7:45PM
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eheath
Posts: 61107 - Karma: 118,279
And no. Shut the fuck up.
Dec 4 2012 7:46PM
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Holte
Posts: 10730 - Karma: 7,744
What are you guys actually using Cinema Tools to do? The only thing I've used it for is to change framerates in QT metadata (as far as I know, Cinema Tools is the only application with this ability) and remove 3:2 pulldown (which AE does really well in CS5.5 and 6).
Dec 4 2012 7:46PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
I'm hesitant to believe you since you were a proponent of slowing down footage in FCP's timeline. And you're guy.
Dec 4 2012 7:54PM
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Jeff_Lo
Posts: 5809 - Karma: 263
After doing research I'm pretty sure Premiere does conform the footage by Right Clicking and clicking Interpret footage and changing the frame rate. I've never had issues with Stutter when doing this...

And I looked around and even called adobe and was told this is what they use to conform footage in there production suite.

I could be wrong, I rarely have to do this...just saying i've heard the opposite and had no issues.
Dec 4 2012 7:55PM
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.qzyxya
Posts: 1479 - Karma: -26
THANK YOU. jesus christ if people would listen to what I said in my first post...
Dec 4 2012 7:58PM
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eheath
Posts: 61107 - Karma: 118,279
Shut up, it does the same thing. Try it yourself.
Dec 4 2012 7:59PM
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.qzyxya
Posts: 1479 - Karma: -26
Really? Oh yeah I just tested it, it doesn't work. I'm pretty sure you can do that in ae though.
Dec 4 2012 8:03PM
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eheath
Posts: 61107 - Karma: 118,279
Whatever, even if it works in any type of setting, its a shitty way to do it.
Dec 4 2012 8:04PM
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m3owzza
Posts: 411 - Karma: 4,528
he called you Qfag for a reason.
Dec 4 2012 8:05PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
What part of this aren't you getting? We were all aware that Premiere is capable of slowing down footage. Whether or not it is as effective as Cinema Tools was in no way answered in your first post. Simply stating "it works for me" is meaningless considering your history of "advice," and is in no way remotely helpful to the discussion considering the fact that for every correct way there is to do something, there are a dozen wrong ways that people testify "works." Uploading videos to the internet using Facebook "works" but that doesn't mean that it isn't a stupid thing to recommend.
Dec 4 2012 8:06PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
Just tried it. It seems to work okay for segments, but I'm getting crazy glitches in my footage like pixellated blocks and stepping. In the instance that Premiere isn't being shitty and glitchy like always, I'd say this method works pretty well.
Dec 4 2012 8:20PM
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eheath
Posts: 61107 - Karma: 118,279
But it does work as well as cine tools...
Dec 4 2012 8:20PM
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.qzyxya
Posts: 1479 - Karma: -26
exactly...
don't see how it could be worse in the first place, all its doing is saying read these files as 24p not 60p.
Dec 4 2012 8:24PM
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.qzyxya
Posts: 1479 - Karma: -26
Yeah, but it can save time sometimes, instead of converting every clip to 24p you just convert the whole comp to it and it will conform them itself
Dec 4 2012 8:25PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
This is an example of staying relevant to the discussion. "It works" means fuckall.
Dec 4 2012 8:25PM
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eheath
Posts: 61107 - Karma: 118,279
?? What? Are you talking about just having your 60p clips play at real time but at 24fps? stop saying conform for everything. Conform = changing the frame rate to change speed
Dec 4 2012 8:45PM
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.qzyxya
Posts: 1479 - Karma: -26
No, i mean in after effects I'm pretty sure you can put in 60p footage into a comp thats another frame rate and it won't drop the extra frames, it will slow it down and make the clip longer, playing it at the frame rate of the comp, ie conforming it to the comps frame rate
Dec 4 2012 8:54PM
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.qzyxya
Posts: 1479 - Karma: -26
Yeah sorry, I can't really say that seeing as I haven't used cinetools. But it does work fine, probably as well as cinetools. But I get your point, I haven't used cinetools so my answer doesn't really mean anything.
Dec 4 2012 8:57PM
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Jeff_Lo
Posts: 5809 - Karma: 263
It works, I confirmed this with Adobe awhile ago. Same process. I've had no issues.

But you and Eheath can continue to argue. It's funny. You want the answer to how something is done, or comparable its been given to you. Yet while wanting to know, you argue everything against the practice that is working.


Dec 4 2012 9:08PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
That was just me shit talking to Evan as usual. I tried it and it works. Though for the record I am hopelessly pedantic.
Dec 4 2012 9:14PM
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Holte
Posts: 10730 - Karma: 7,744
Nah, not in AE. It'll just drop frames.
Dec 4 2012 9:31PM
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.qzyxya
Posts: 1479 - Karma: -26
Rly? Hmm, I could have sworn there was some way to do that, maybe with precomps or something. whatever, easier just to interpret it as the frame rate then.
Dec 4 2012 9:39PM
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blatt
Posts: 5584 - Karma: 3,097
Good god, you really don't know anything... Twitter ftw
Dec 5 2012 2:23AM
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WhatPlantsCrave
Posts: 20 - Karma: 15
sorry for stepping on some toes here, i was just giving my advice, i have always had stutter problems with premiere using the conform, i will test out the methods here though.

once again sorry if i came off the wrong way.
Dec 5 2012 2:31AM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
Isn't that was m/a is for?
Dec 5 2012 3:55PM
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mski
Posts: 4791 - Karma: 3,803
If your on premier im hoping you have after effects, they both work pretty simultaneously to give you well rendered slow mo. Just look online for tutorials, they are literally everywhere.
Dec 5 2012 4:46PM
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blatt
Posts: 5584 - Karma: 3,097
I would say twitter instead of twixtor...
Dec 6 2012 10:49AM
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CrotchKiller
Posts: 9037 - Karma: 6,940
Not pertinent
Dec 6 2012 10:52AM
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Downtofilm
Posts: 6896 - Karma: 20,399
Interpret footage is the easiest and best way imo.

lol at this thread.
Dec 6 2012 1:14PM
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m3owzza
Posts: 411 - Karma: 4,528
thank you. in your personal opinion does it work just as well as cinema tools? or do you not have experience in fcp?
Dec 6 2012 1:16PM
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