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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22671 - Karma: 75,832
Please keep all discussion here.

Remember, the most important thing is that we are giving you the ability to decide what goes up there. Some categories of non-skiing stuff can't make it to the top right now, but we can work with that in the future.

Above and beyond all else... rate everything.

Let us know what you think!

Oct 30 2012 1:39PM
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Yung_Gnarley
Posts: 9091 - Karma: 3,016
Mr. Bishop why did you quote what I said and rewrite it in your post?
Oct 31 2012 12:05AM
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Sklar
Posts: 8863 - Karma: 31,577
this top bar
Click for larger image
Oct 31 2012 12:06AM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22671 - Karma: 75,832
Because I wanted JP to address your concerns, and help explain why he did what he did.

As JP said though, we would really like to hear your suggestions. We can tell you why we did what we did, or we can incorporate your ideas into our design.
Oct 31 2012 12:08AM
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JPFortier
Posts: 278 - Karma: 527
Yes, we thought about the horizontal grid. However I was not able to make  horizontal grid for the box elements on the front page. I made it only vertical, which is perfectly legit to do in design.

Here is why I was not able to do an horizontal grid on the boxes elements. We have two type of ads at the top right of the box elements. It's a 300x250px or a 300x600px... Unfortunately, the height of the ads are differents and they display randomly. So it's hard to base a horizontal grid out of that, because 250 is not a multiple of 600.

However I think the grid being only horizontal make it looks dynamic in my mind.
Oct 31 2012 12:13AM
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Yung_Gnarley
Posts: 9091 - Karma: 3,016
I guess you and I just have a different idea of what good design is. It seems like you guys are going for something to appeal to teenagers, not adults. Which, actually, is probably a good idea now that I think about it. So I rest my case. I'll just have to live with this weird Pintrest wannabe site.
Oct 31 2012 12:17AM
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DrZoidberg
Posts: 5675 - Karma: 4,268
I understand what he is saying, I think. Let's start with an example. Say you go to the home page and want only photos and videos. So you activate those two filters. On the screen you have pictures and videos just thrown about. I think he is asking for pictures to be on one side, and videos on the other. Or something of that nature. So they would be sorted by their type, within your narrowed selection. I personally think it's fine, cause if I suddenly wanted to see all the photos I'd just take the videos out of my sorting.

So I have a question about the news thing, lets go by example again. Lets say it snowed a ton and my local hill opened tomorrow, and I went and shot photos and gathered some footage. If I assembled all of that in news story format and submitted it, then it could end up on the front page with all the other stuff? So in essence, that would be like me writing something that got a spot on the old front page news thing? But better, cause it got up voted there by everybody else?
Oct 31 2012 12:17AM
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rudager
Posts: 11332 - Karma: 4,597
So after playing around with the front page, I noticed something that makes the new version not as good as the old version.

I like being able to sort everything, and save it, along with the filters.
However; Latest photos and videos just take up a lot of space, and I've opted to filter them out.

With the old layout, it had the Photo and Video of the day(s) ready for people to click on them.

I understand with the new layout that you guys might be pushing the media sections more, but now it's all jumbly.

What would be nice would be to still have the Photo and video of the day still in the front page.
Even when I apply the filter of top day, I still get a whole ton of media.


Maybe I'm just complaining.
Oct 31 2012 12:22AM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22671 - Karma: 75,832
Ah, but you completely contradict yourself within your own point - Pinterest is an adult site, not a kid site. So you're talking only about opinion of design, not 'kid' vs 'adult'. There's no way.

JP gave me some points that I can help iterate in English for you to understand (He speaks french as a first language so his debate points are not as poignant)

1- We increased the quality of the thumbnails, as the new web tends to use bigger thumbnails and higher quality images

2- Used for the first time a grid on the homepage, which employs a responsive design. This is an approach to web design in which a site is crafted to provide an optimal viewing experience on any device. (try scaling your browser width down to see this effect)

3 - We put a lot of padding between the colum in a philosophy to make Newschoolers less packed. Major complaint before was that it was 'too packed'.

4- We fixed the menu to make it more functional and have more clearly defined stages of click and links.

5- Removed all the images and transformed all the gradient and menu to CSS3.

Now, the biggest issue is that clearly you are not someone that believes in Responsive Design. I agree that your ability to design a particularly perfect webpage is severely limited when you need to take into account any browser/OS/device combo known to man. Personally, I didn't want to alienate any NSers by giving them a crappy experience on any device.

So from what your design classes may have taught you about beautiful design, we probably failed. If you're taking heavy web design classes and you have learned some stuff about responsive design, and all the new CSS stuff then PLEASE help us with some actual suggestions! Honestly we would love to hear them.

At this point, I'm trying to give you facts, and you just keep using words like 'appeal to teenagers' and 'pintrest wannabe site'. Please, use factual suggestions or your suggestions are of zero help.

Oct 31 2012 12:32AM
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LittleFoot
Posts: 1667 - Karma: 57
you're talking a lot of shit for someone who hasn't posted his work yet. you can't just rest your case with that retarded teenager/adult argument.

I love the new homepage. the only thing is the footer shouldn't be on the homepage anymore because you only ever see it for a second while more stuff loads.
Oct 31 2012 12:42AM
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Yung_Gnarley
Posts: 9091 - Karma: 3,016
NS is fucked.
Oct 31 2012 12:45AM
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eheath
Posts: 61146 - Karma: 118,674
You're a fucking cock, make some constructive comments or get the fuck out.
Oct 31 2012 12:46AM
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bakedpow
Posts: 8770 - Karma: 10,462
I dont think he is talking shit, difference between mindless shit talking and a bit harsh critiques.

I have no experience what so ever in webpage design. I like the idea of the new home page much more than before but I feel the new page is missing something not quite as visually appealing as before perhaps? i stated this earlier in this thread. Personal preference maybe?

It's growing on me though.
Oct 31 2012 1:01AM
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Yung_Gnarley
Posts: 9091 - Karma: 3,016
Oh shit. Not a cock! SHITCOCKS!
Oct 31 2012 1:08AM
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bakedpow
Posts: 8770 - Karma: 10,462
ok i take that back.

man i know you can form a better argument than just an insult like that. imagine how much time this guys have put towards this update. you never know how its gona look and feel till it's launched for the public.

Oct 31 2012 1:16AM
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eheath
Posts: 61146 - Karma: 118,674
Sick come back, get the fuck out of here you troll.
Oct 31 2012 1:46AM
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Skibumsmith
Posts: 5414 - Karma: 11,608
I think what's great about the update is seeing all the content that I would have missed before.

but... I really liked the organization of the old site. It's just my personal preference. I liked reading all the news headlines without having to scroll down. And seeing the VODs in one spot. And I know you can use the filter easily enough but it just feels like extra steps whereas the old site everything was neatly presented in front of you. It just feels like it's trying to copy trendy social media website design.
Oct 31 2012 2:31AM
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NPF
Posts: 5152 - Karma: 12,116
this.
Oct 31 2012 2:43AM
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Skibumsmith
Posts: 5414 - Karma: 11,608
I'm starting to get the direction you're going though. Now you see the best of the best and anybody can create really good content that makes it to the top of the homepage instead of someone deciding what we see.

still though, I can't fucking stand how disorganized it is. It kind of feels like the time my FB wall turned into a timeline, and I hate that shit.
Oct 31 2012 2:58AM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Posting from mobile because it's finally all there and useable. Good work guys!
Oct 31 2012 3:25AM
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Skibum420
Posts: 1838 - Karma: 314
Ive been coming to this site for over 12 years this is the worst change ive seen.
Oct 31 2012 5:27AM
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selkirks
Posts: 1978 - Karma: 59
The homepage might contain a bit too obtrusive of ads for mobile devices. The square box of three iPhone ads that shows up in the middle of the Feed blocks off the entire screen, even on an iPhone 5. Maybe those three ads could be separated so that you can still see a photo at all times rather than being bombarded by obtrusive, cheap-looking ads? Look, I'm all for revenue and ads. But three ads in that small a space is just too much.
Oct 31 2012 5:43AM
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Linked
Posts: 325 - Karma: 216
Is their a search bar on mobile, if not cam we get one put, also on mobile when you are typing instead of the text scrolling across and not being able to read it can it display every thingyou have typed above it, that way you can read and check a post before posting
Oct 31 2012 6:09AM
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JWeinstock
Posts: 3439 - Karma: 1,352
not sure if this has been said but it would be nice to be able to see who made the videos or pictures along with the title on the homepage
Oct 31 2012 6:34AM
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MacMahoooon
Posts: 9009 - Karma: 3,305
Can you screen cap this and put it in the Bug Reporting thread. Doesn't sound right
Oct 31 2012 9:01AM
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theBearJew
Posts: 10951 - Karma: 15,633
Mario has stopped running in my icon with the new layout.. Not sure why or how to fix...
Oct 31 2012 9:02AM
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MatRich
Posts: 4789 - Karma: 1,812
no stop talking, everything you say is stupid.

I like discovering everything because instead of having to think: hey I want to go watch photos and looking for these, I can just turn my brain off and surf every category at the same time and find interesting things everywhere.

You just bitching because it doesnt match your browsing habbits, you dont look at it with a neutral perspective.
Oct 31 2012 9:11AM
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theBearJew
Posts: 10951 - Karma: 15,633
of course now hes running after I post....
Oct 31 2012 9:12AM
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Zimmerman
Posts: 6992 - Karma: 1,021
I could say the exact same thing about you you dunce. Once again I like the new format and filters and everything. I like how it shows more media than before based on what's hot. It would just work so much better if items were grouped based on the filters we choose, and many agree with me. Also, a cannot give enough praise to the mobile site. It's jut about perfect, including the homepage.
Oct 31 2012 9:38AM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22671 - Karma: 75,832
I know whats causing it. Set up a task in our software for 'enable normal ads displaying on mobile 300x250 spot'. That will at least get a normal ad there, and flash will fall back to .jpg.

Having a solid sized ad is good, but I agree those google ads don't look great like that.

Its because the tags are falling back to the default mobile ads, which aren't populated with anything. K
Oct 31 2012 9:47AM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22671 - Karma: 75,832
Wanna bet?

I'll put my money where my mouth is.

$1,000 says that the site has more traffic this time next year, and that the homepage has grown immensely in popularity as a single page on the site.

Oct 31 2012 9:50AM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22671 - Karma: 75,832
SOME agree with you, but at this point from a high level it is not at all many. In the gazillions of threads popping up on this, the support has been about 80-85% positive (best guess).

The people who hate it, REALLY hate it and are being extremely vocal, so its feeling like there's more negative feelings when there really is positive.

Items being grouped both goes against the philosophy and wouldn't work on mobile. The layout looks good on all devices because it can degrade gracefully and keep everything in order. YOu're only thinking desktop... start using it on more devices and it should make more sense.

The philosophy as well is the most important part of this - the people decide what is the best and we display what is better above what isn't quite as good... all mixed in.

Give it time.
Oct 31 2012 9:57AM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22671 - Karma: 75,832
YES!!!

Now you're getting it. Above and beyond all else, this is the most important part of the new layout. Absolutely everything is built around this philosophy - where if you have a story that should be told, you can tell it and naturally make it right up to the top.

The same goes for if your buddy is an insanely talented pro who has gone totally unnoticed. Write the story that should be written... tell the real story behind what he's all about and if people are into it - BAM - you're the top dog that day.

We wanted the same thing available for journalists, photographers, videographers and people who like starting really quality discussion. Its very important to give everything a fair shot at going to the top, so we can begin working as a community to showcase the best talent.

This homepage isn't just a design decision... the design is simply an aesthetic to put a face on the system behind the scenes.

That system is a complete re-write of the media landscape. We don't any longer do top-down media - where we tell you what is cool. You create media and together decide what is cool.

This is going to be the single biggest place that underground talent can get exposure - no matter what part of the sport you're into.

Oct 31 2012 10:03AM
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blindside
Posts: 5619 - Karma: 1,199
Another small issue, the ad boxes appear in random sections of the frontpage grid and can be mistaken for content. Maybe the ads could be segregated to a certain region of the grid, or at least not be given center stage..
Oct 31 2012 10:15AM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22671 - Karma: 75,832
I'm sorry, but this is a specific decision. I mean magazine ads appear in the middle of the content, and appear as photos. Advertising is most effective when close to the content.

The sponsors are what Keep NS alive, and we want them to get solid placement.

Oct 31 2012 10:26AM
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blindside
Posts: 5619 - Karma: 1,199
That's partly why I don't read magazines. But I can grudgingly accept your decision.
Oct 31 2012 10:35AM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22671 - Karma: 75,832
I mean we could charge for newschoolers.

There's only so ad-free you can be if you're free to visit. Most times we give the choice between free and paid, people choose to look at some ads.

All the newspapers are starting to go behind paywalls. Maybe that is the future?

Oct 31 2012 10:39AM
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Mag
Posts: 8155 - Karma: 14,809
yeah advertisements on mobile have become a lot more prominent, It'd be good if you could donate to get rid of ads.
Oct 31 2012 10:48AM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22671 - Karma: 75,832
It would have to be a monthly subscription in order to offset the revenue.

Never really ran the calculation on what that would be, but it definitely wouldn't be one-time.

Oct 31 2012 10:56AM
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Zimmerman
Posts: 6992 - Karma: 1,021
I don't hate it. I really like it. I'm just not gonna suck your dick and say its perfect, because it isn't. In love the mobile site now. I'm currently using it actually. Is there any way the desktop homepage could change and have the mobile site stay the same? Lol @ this philosophy bull. I agree with it, but it can't be the sole basis for the design. My idea wouldn't put bias on anything or make it unfair, it would simply provide a little organization. Also, is anyone else noticing the forum is showing up all grey with very little contrast and no background? I hope this isn't part of the new change.
Oct 31 2012 11:13AM
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MatRich
Posts: 4789 - Karma: 1,812
you and a few people like your idea but that doesnt make you right.

I think more people realy dont care about your idea.

If we put your idea into effect, what happens is people will continue to only look at a specific column and wont stumble on interesting threads or news or videos...

the great thing about this new concept is that I get to browse arround and see everything without opening new pages, yes your idea would enable that but people would slowly just look at one section and ignore the rest.

get over your idea, your not better than the whole team that designed this. Of course your idea was thought about, your not special, they probably decided to go against this form because it lets people browse everything without concentrating on on thing like videos and not seeing everything else.
Oct 31 2012 11:19AM
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TotallyTrevor
Posts: 4379 - Karma: 26,359
so i've never really used pinterest, reddit, or rejib....

are they kind of like a facebook news feed? is that how the new homepage is working? if nothing gets rated it will show up in order, otherwise the most popular stuff shows up at the top??
Oct 31 2012 11:19AM
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Mag
Posts: 8155 - Karma: 14,809
I can't imagine it'd be that much, but do they not say the value of each person to facebook is ~$100(or it was a while back) and people are on facebook a lot more often than ns, so I can't imagine it'd be a huge amount.
Oct 31 2012 11:20AM
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TOAST.
Posts: 7281 - Karma: 33,455
I like the new homepage for the most part although...

I think I would like to have the news box as it used to be (probably smaller) along with top rated video and photo all fixed in place near the top how it used to be then have everything else after it.

I havnt spent much time on the front page yet but that is my first thought.
Oct 31 2012 11:41AM
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rudager
Posts: 11332 - Karma: 4,597
One problem I can see arising with the user based content is kids posting claims on how they landed their first double of the season or something. If there's going to be content regarding, it better be worth reading or informing for that matter. An opening day review, or a review to a week long storm, something uncommon, and well written should still make the front page.
Oct 31 2012 11:47AM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22671 - Karma: 75,832
Post a screen cap of the forum thing, that is definitely a bug.

Your idea would absolutely put bias on things. Absolutely it would, and absolutely that is exactly the problem we had before. All the emphasis was on news, and everyone and their cat contacts us to promote videos as news content. We started doing it directly, but that missed the boat too. The new layout allows anything to get to the top, and as Matt said - it helps jumble up what people are stumbling on. Its going to help with being a view driver for a lot of things on the site, and will be better for everyone.

What you're missing is that this is organized. Its organized by what the community says is the most popular. If you want separate sections, go to a separate section or set a filter.



Oct 31 2012 11:52AM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22671 - Karma: 75,832
Well as a community we shouldn't vote stuff up that sucks then. We need to breed an atmosphere of banding together to rise good content and cut down bad.
Oct 31 2012 11:53AM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22671 - Karma: 75,832
Not really. Facebook doesn't even work like that. Facebook is not displayed chronologically unless you set it that way.

Facebook uses Edgerank to decide what shows up in your feed, and it is ranked by that. Edgerank takes into account time since posting, post popularity, and how tight you are with the friend that posted it.

Our system is using algorithms based off of Reddit for the back-end. Its calculated based on up/down votes with a time factor.

The main difference is that the content you see is not influenced by your friends - it is decided upon by the community as a whole.

Admittedly the current algorithm is not perfect. We've got a brand new one that is almost finished that is going to be much better.

Oct 31 2012 11:56AM
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panojibber.
Posts: 1041 - Karma: 683
I feel like people are missing the entire idea of community controlled content. Obviously its not going to be perfect until people start rating anything and everything, but I bet in a month everyone will be happy with the update.
Oct 31 2012 12:19PM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22671 - Karma: 75,832
Especially when all the unheard of athletes, photographers, filmers and journalists who never had a chance before are the ones being promoted.

Oct 31 2012 12:25PM
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schmuck
Posts: 1974 - Karma: 53,159
Talk about hitting the nail on the head :)

We recognize that change isn't easy when it comes to things like this (just like when we changed the video section, or each and every time Facebook changes their layout), but ultimately, change is good. And I'm speaking from experience on that, as when we first started talking about doing this I admittedly wrinkled my nose at the preliminary design and concept when it was on a whiteboard, and even when I first saw it in testing I was bit taken a back, but after only a couple of days of using it during the testing phase I absolutely loved it, and began to absolutely despise the previous homepage.

For all of you out there who are complaining about the categories feeling too cluttered, mish-mashed, etc, try filtering the homepage to what you want to see, because I think that's one of the coolest features of this, along with the fact that the homepage is now a portal to all things cool on the site, and in the case of the news, the ski world in general!



Oct 31 2012 12:38PM
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