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PartyBullshiit
March, 2024

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A website just take some of my pictures to put them on their site !?

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Will.T
Posts: 3453 - Karma: 1,279
So like a week ago, there was a competition at my home mountain and i took some pictures..

i put them on facebook and tag the people on them..

One of this guy won 2nd and he's sponsored by a ski company.. this ski company take some of my picture and put them on their site..

i was just wondering if they can do it.. or if they have to told me about it or tag me ?


Thanks for answers !
Jan 20 2012 11:48PM
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blakroc
Posts: 2323 - Karma: 28
They have no right to use your photos, you should tell them you want to be paid in which case you name the price or you want them down.
Jan 21 2012 11:25AM
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KarmaInitiative
Posts: 2028 - Karma: 174
thats copyright infringement, look around on the internet, there plenty of guides on how to handle this situation
Jan 21 2012 1:02PM
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wintersway
Posts: 5115 - Karma: 128
this is where you want to put your name or a watermark somewhere on all your photos. especially if youre trying to do something with them.
Jan 21 2012 1:23PM
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p.hawks
Posts: 2832 - Karma: 581
if you didn't watermark, they may have assumed that it was fine/you didn't care. there are many guides on how to draft a respectful but assertive email so that you can work something out. the main thing is to stay calm and assume it was a mistake instead of writing in all caps screaming about how they stole from you. hope it works out
Jan 21 2012 5:56PM
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blatt
Posts: 5584 - Karma: 3,097
Unless you have the photos lisensed, anyone can do whatever they want with your media. Regardless of if it's watermarked or not
Jan 22 2012 2:14AM
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TWoods
Posts: 10014 - Karma: 8,385
"

To whomever it may concern:

My name is ____________. On / / I shot some photos of ___________ a the __________ competition. It has recently come to my attention that some of those photos have been used on your website without my consent, as well as without payment or credit. I realize that these photos are beneficial to you and your rider as a form of media that you can utilize to help promote your company, and I would be very interested in providing you with rights to these photos, as well as other photos in a way that would be mutually beneficial.

Please remove these photos at once from your site. After they have been removed, I would be happy to discuss terms and compensation for my work and my time.

Thank you for your understanding, I look forward to hearing from you.


--

Your name
your phone number
your website(?)

"
Jan 22 2012 2:27AM
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MACAQUE
Posts: 2811 - Karma: 696

TAKE SCREENSHOTS OF THE PHOTOS ON THEIR WEBSITE

Then the FIRST thing you need to do is register the photos with the copyright office. You have 3 months after the picture is taken (I think) to register them. After they copyrighted to your name you can take this wherever you want. You can make them take them down or you can sue them with no warning and get a very very large sum of money. Like VERY large.


If you just want the pictures to be taken off or marked with your name for credit that's fine but I'd honestly advise pursuing some form of monetary compensation (not necessarily a law suit). Using pictures without permission is STEALING and really really really bad for the photo industry as a whole.

Just make sure you copyright them before you try to do anything.
Jan 22 2012 1:52PM
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Will.T
Posts: 3453 - Karma: 1,279

Thank you ! K+

I will try this and will see what happen!

Jan 22 2012 2:47PM
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Will.T
Posts: 3453 - Karma: 1,279

I don't know if it's worth to pay 45$ to copyright those pictures.. i'm gonna try the idea that was posted just before your i think :P

but k+

Jan 22 2012 2:48PM
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TWoods
Posts: 10014 - Karma: 8,385
Jumping to conclusions and treating people like criminals right off the bat is really bad for the photo industry as well.

Photos are copyright the moment they are recorded on your memory card (or strip of film). Although, yes, registering them can help with legal things and can lead to more money in a legal dispute.

It's likely they don't get it. Being courteous and educating people is going to portray yourself and other photographers in a better light, and may generate work in the future if the person in question knows you are willing to be courteous and act professionally.

Besides that, blindsiding someone with a lawsuit (although yes, the law says you can) makes you look like a dick.



A ski company (will remain un-named) used a photo of mine on their facebook and posted it all over the place, without my permission... it had my watermark still on it. I didn't know who found it or where, so I contacted them. Turns out, the rider had shown them the photo just to show them that he was getting after it, and they assumed it was OK to use (because they simply didn't understand why not). I contacted them with essentially exactly what I wrote out above... photo was taken down in an hour, and the response I received was very positive and thankful; I was asked to shoot more with the rider and submit throughout this season so they had the option to purchase photos for social media.
Jan 22 2012 4:13PM
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MACAQUE
Posts: 2811 - Karma: 696
Ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking it. Issues with copyright infringement of photographs need more publicity. The laws have been broken SOOO many times and once somebody breaks a law they ARE a criminal. It's natural that we treat criminals like criminals. They're not innocent by any stretch of the imagination.

In order to "educate" people about how stealing pictures is wrong we need to show that people who do it WILL be punished. Without monetary consequences for breaking the law there is no deterrent. Pictures are stolen from a lot of photogs without the photographers ever finding out. People steal pictures because they think they can get away with it.

To prevent pictures from being stolen (which photogs consider a very worthwhile goal) you can't act after a certain circumstance and expect that your actions will have long term, far reaching impact. That's a "band aid" and doesn't treat the actual cause. The cause is people thinking they can get away with stealing.

When was the last time you thought somebody was a "dick" for pressing charges against the people who stole their car? When was the last time you thought somebody was a "dick" for suing because of LEGITIMATE patent infringement (not Apple). Punishing a criminal doesn't make you a "dick" it makes you smart and in this case, helpful.

If being a pushover "generates work in the future" it really doesn't matter because a photog can get a 5 digit amount out of a lawsuit about a 100x100 pixel picture (yes it's happened, look it up).

If photographers want the issue to stop they have to emphasize the point that using photographs without permission is stealing and carries severe consequences. If we let people get away with playing the "ignorant of the law" card every time the issue will never stop.
Jan 22 2012 6:54PM
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TWoods
Posts: 10014 - Karma: 8,385
You completely misconstrued what I'm saying. Fact of the matter is that copyright laws aren't common sense or common knowledge it's pretty apparent that stealing a car is wrong and drawing that comparison is absurd. Being a jackass right off the bat only makes enemies.

I am in no way saying that you should be a pushover. Read my first response. That's the first line of action, and 99% of the time people are instantly receptive. Then they are doing exactly what you ask, but still have a positive perception of you as a professional... as opposed to coming at them guns blazing and jumping into a lawsuit.

I work as a photographer and a graphic artist. That's my full time work. I deal with licensing and usage rights for every penny I make, and I have had people infringe on my copyright several times. I used to get pissed and send agro emails threatening the next step as a form of legal action, and there are people that carry a poor perception of me because of it.

I also have engaged in lawsuits over work three times, although thankfully I worked through all of those with a level head, and those people now know not to fuck with me; exactly where I want them.

Obviously large companies know better. But he's dealing with someone who runs a ski company I have legitimately never even heard of before, sponsoring no name riders. You think he should be instantly treated like a car thief because he posted some photos he found on facebook on his website?

IF that's the route you want to take, I guess all I can say is good luck in a professional career, because you're not doing yourself any favors.
Jan 22 2012 7:22PM
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connory998
Posts: 1197 - Karma: 34
Just wondering, but do you pay for music? What about movies? Software?
Jan 22 2012 8:06PM
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MACAQUE
Posts: 2811 - Karma: 696
You focused on one line of my post and ignored my actual point. Nice.


And no, I did not "completely misconstrue" what you're saying. You're said that "jumping to conclusions and treating people like criminals right off the bat is really bad for the photo industry as well". If somebody is a criminal than they should be treated like a criminal. Seeing your photos used without permission and deducing that somebody stole them isn't "jumping to a conclusion". It's logical, linear thought. In my opinion the problem is that people see a difference between material theft and photo theft. They're both not ok. People need to know this.

You're misinterpreting what I'm saying. My first post wasn't a response to your post so don't treat it like one. I'm not saying the template that you posted is wrong and I never suggested that a lawsuit is the only or best way to go about getting compensation. Reread what I said in my first post.

You can treat somebody like a criminal and still be polite. My point is that you have to be firm in your demands and get what you want. Don't back down but don't be more confrontational than you have to be.
Jan 22 2012 8:17PM
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Canepski
Posts: 335 - Karma: 26
sue their asses!
Jan 23 2012 2:53AM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,682
This little bit never hurt anyone either (I would spend more time wording it though):

"The industry standard rate for photos used without consent is 300%, as I understand that you did not knowingly use these in ill faith, I would be happy to discuss an alternative rate for the use of these photos."


Be polite about it.


Something else to think about.

You put them up on facebook, as long as they remain there, if not indefinitely, facebook has full unlimited ownership to the photos, to include the right to license them to others. I would probably take them down from facebook within the next 5 minutes or so.
Jan 23 2012 5:11AM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,682
This is some of the dumbest advice I have read. Not ignorant, just dumb.
Jan 23 2012 5:12AM
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MACAQUE
Posts: 2811 - Karma: 696
Really? Why don't you explain why instead of just spewing bullshit?
Jan 23 2012 9:13AM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,682
Really a lawsuit over 3 pictures that could have been taken with a camera phone, and we're thrown up on Facebook? all a lawsuit is going to acomplish is get everyone pissed at everyone else.

The kid is friends with one of their team riders, odds are they will want some photos in the future. I would rather be in a position to work out an agreement over these photos, which I wouldn't sweat, they are just point and shoots of the podium, and then work with the skier and company on future projects.

Also this first rule of lawsuits is you only sue people/companies with money. This company can't get a half decent website up, and are a small ski company to boot, they don't have excess cash sitting around to be grabbed up in a settlement or awarded in court. While yes, they may have capital that a court order could get auctioned off, but it honestly probably won't be enough to pay for the time it took to get that awarded. So a lawsuit will result in one of two things:
Him with significantly less cash, The company thinking he is a joke, and his friend pissed off at him for raising much adu about nothing.
Or
Him with slightly more cash, a now defunct company, his name in mud, and his friend pissed off and without a sponsor.

Jan 23 2012 12:01PM
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stoned_sorcerer
Posts: 659 - Karma: 72
You should totally sue these bastards!!!! But if you really care so much then maybe contact them and ask credit for the photos.
Jan 23 2012 12:03PM
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DUBIE
Posts: 576 - Karma: 135
there is no need to sue anyone. Don't be an ass
Jan 23 2012 2:53PM
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Will.T
Posts: 3453 - Karma: 1,279
lol at people who want me to sue them :p

i contacted the company and they are really friendly ! They give me the credits and i don't care about $$ ahahahah
Jan 23 2012 5:02PM
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.Ian.
Posts: 1568 - Karma: 71
I'm sorry if I'm being ignorant because I only read over the thread quickly and didn't think I saw anyone post this...

If you go to Sharing Your Content and Information and read number 1 here: http://www.facebook.com/legal/terms you're granting facebook the license to use any of you're photos in any way they want once you upload them.
I'm really not sure how that transfers to other members or other people taking them off facebook and then using them, but it seems like there might be a way for them to claim that "since your privacy settings are open to the public, they can do whatever they want with uploaded content." That's just a thought, and it seems like they could pull that on you if they wanted to, but I'm not sure.

Sorry that doesn't help you at all now, but in the future, if you have photos that you don't want people being able to use freely, don't put them on facebook.

If someone can prove me wrong and it is copyright for that company to use the photo, please let me know because I'm really not sure.
I was always under the impression that once I upload a picture to facebook, facebook owns it. They explain that, that is not true though but they do have any right to use the photo however they want.
That's just what I read, so let me know if I'm misreading or something too. Sorry if what I say is true OP.
Thanks.
Jan 23 2012 5:08PM
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.Ian.
Posts: 1568 - Karma: 71
Sorry I was typing mine and didn't notice you posted that! (I'm a slow typer). That's awesome that they gave you all the credit and you're all set then!
Jan 23 2012 5:15PM
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RileySnyderPhoto
Posts: 688 - Karma: 1,451
Facebook does not "own" it but they gain access to use it if they like but they do not have rights to transfer the rights to use it to a third party.
Jan 23 2012 5:28PM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,682
Ya, they do.
Jan 23 2012 5:31PM
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RileySnyderPhoto
Posts: 688 - Karma: 1,451
*depending on your privacy and other settings
Jan 23 2012 5:36PM
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MACAQUE
Posts: 2811 - Karma: 696
Nope if you read their policy it says that they reserve the right to use your pictures in ads etc. but not to sell them. You retain copyright to the pictures but facebook has the right to use them. Unless they updated their policy since the last time I checked...
Jan 23 2012 6:59PM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,682
Your privacy settings have no effect on your legal agreement with Facebook.
Jan 23 2012 7:48PM
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DIX~
Posts: 4695 - Karma: 6,502
Cobra is right I believe. Anything you've uploaded to Facebook basically ever became their property the moment you uploaded it, shit's fucked
Jan 23 2012 7:59PM
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TWoods
Posts: 10014 - Karma: 8,385
I understand what you're saying now, I don't think I was as clear as I meant to be. I think we are essentially on the same page.
Jan 24 2012 10:08AM
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stoned_sorcerer
Posts: 659 - Karma: 72
I was actually being sarcastic.Doesn't seem like such a big deal to me.
Jan 24 2012 10:55AM
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cnote
Posts: 30 - Karma: 10
This happened to me about 5 years ago with a pic, taken off my website by the subject in the picture. He then gave it to his sponsor who used the pic in a magazine ad. We ended up approaching the company with a the attitude of creating a positive spin, asking them to consider a sponsorship package for our video production that we were working on. In the end they got the photo and we got a video sponsor. I would say don't act pissed just be firm that they were not authorized by you to use your content and you need to be compensated, it will all work out. As for the Facebook issue I don't really know what would happen if you fought it legally...
Jan 24 2012 11:57AM
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