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Any creationists here ?

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TZP
Posts: 874 - Karma: 61
Because even the pope is saying creationism isn't valid / correct and that its meaning was misunderstood.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/the-pope/8009299/Pope-Benedict-XVIs-astronomer-the-Catholic-Church-welcomes-aliens.html
Dec 1 2011 9:26AM
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skithesprings
Posts: 9086 - Karma: 1,349
Here is what we "know" from what I've gathered. and by "know" this is what people think. Minds much greater than mine. and I'm going to go ahead and do this in retard talk for my sake so I don't have to write a book...

First there was nothing

Then, nothing exploded

Now, it is an infinitely large universe that is expanding, presumably at the speed of light.

But if it's expanding, there must be some boundary?

This is where it gets dicey

It is hypothesized that if you pass through that boundary you re-enter the universe at the exact opposite point in the universe in an inverse manner.

So is the universe infinite? If it is, consider this...

Theoretically, if given an infinite number of trials, anything could happen. If you have a bag of green marbles you know that you will always pull out a green marble, however, you can't say that if you did it an infinite number of times that you wouldn't pull out a red marble, because you can't complete an infinite number of trials. Same could be said for your watch theory. Every piece would exponentially increase the odds against it all coming together perfectly but it would still not be an infinitely large ratio.

On the other hand, I believe there is some sort of sovereign being. Maybe not the god portrayed by the bible, but something, you know? There's too much in life to be content with thinking there's no purpose to it all.

fuck it, why did I even type all that out.

Dec 1 2011 3:43PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51263 - Karma: 157,452
Are you high?



I get what your saying though. I feel like with the marble thing, though we can never perform an infinite number of tests, if what is supposed to be accomplished defies physics and very similar results are shown in the first 20 trillion trials, we can deem it extremely unlikely.


In court you have to prove something beyond reasonable doubt.

" There's too much in life to be content with thinking there's no purpose to it all. "


Unfortunately every question we ask just leaves us with more questions. I guess religion is good for some people in that sense. They can sort of end the quest for knowledge right there.



I feel like what we've hypothesized regarding our existence is probably not even fucking close to anywhere in the ballpark of what actually went down. I think that the answer is so fucking wild, we'd never be able to understand it even if someone tried to explain it.



But that's just what I think. And it's also fun to ponder what might be. Def gets you thinking.
Dec 1 2011 3:52PM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
so true.

i never get it how gods perfect plan can involve a fuckshitloadumptimillion of planets and intelligent life (his worshippers) on one random planet within a mediocre galaxy?


the universe easily had a quadrillion^4 attempts at producing something like our planet.

if there was ONE GODDAMNIT PLANET, ok, i would understand intelligent design.

people always forget all the evolutionary bullshit we are still carrying with us
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_vestigiality


two possibilites

1) god is a pretty lame designer/was drunk and needed a few tries to get it right

2) it all happened by accident.


get your self-centered head out of your ass guys. WE ARE CERTAINLY, 100%, NOTHING SPECIAL. OUR PLANET IS DEFINITELY NOT. AND THERE IS ALREADY EVIDENCE (life on mars, recent nasa article) THAT LIFE IS ALSO NOTHING REALLY SPECIAL.
Dec 1 2011 4:14PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51263 - Karma: 157,452
"1) god is a pretty lame designer/was drunk and needed a few tries to get it right

2) it all happened by accident. "

It's either a or b? brilliant.

"get your self-centered head out of your ass guys. "


We don't know as much as we think we know.
Dec 1 2011 4:33PM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
i wont even answer you. not sure which ego of yours is currently in here.

just so much:
we know that this universe is bigger than anything a human mind can understand. maybe god made it, yes, who knows? but saying that everything is perfectly structured and its absolutely necessary that a god controlled the course of the universe is absolute crap.
Dec 1 2011 4:36PM
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unreal.shooter
Posts: 562 - Karma: 52

a couple of points to make about this thread!

firstly please don't refer to god as a magician or what he does as magic as it it unbelieveably disrespectful to him, as he makes it very clear that he dosent like it !! just kinda a ground rule if you dont mind....

ok so being a christian its hard and you dont know everything, if that. i believe god dosent want us to know everything, like what the bible says about adam and eve, the only rule he gave them was not to eat from the tree of knowledge. yet they did it.

think about it, if we knew everything about the human life or the universe or the meaning of life or about other life forms, we would destroy them and our selfs with out a doubt ! its human nature, we just always want more !!

secondly god didnt create the world by accident or when he was drunk (as you know god dosent like people getting drunk, its a sin! ) but dont take this the wrong way god wants us to drink alcohol. he created it, he turned water into wine at a party ! how much evidence do you want, jesus liked alcohol, but its the selfcontrol god wants us to practise much like no sex before marriage. he wants us to have selfcontrol !

lastly to the comment above (i think) life is precious and meaningful ! why do you think the bible condems abortions ? god has a plan for everyone, and the offer to get into heaven is given to everyone its just a human tendency to say no but god dosent take that as an awnser ! thats why he keep popping up in your life ! everything you do and everywhere you go GOD CREATED IT AND GOD WANTED YOU TO DO THE THINGS YOU HAVE DONE

Dec 1 2011 4:45PM
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Obi-Wan-Jenobi
Posts: 951 - Karma: 119
Wow something i agree with from you! we could almost be friends!
Dec 1 2011 4:46PM
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cow.
Posts: 416 - Karma: 200
if god created everything, why would he create evil?
Dec 1 2011 4:51PM
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cow.
Posts: 416 - Karma: 200
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6c2mjq2n3Yg&feature=fvst


Dec 1 2011 4:55PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51263 - Karma: 157,452
"ok so being a christian its hard and you dont know everything, if that. i believe god dosent want us to know everything, like what the bible says about adam and eve, the only rule he gave them was not to eat from the tree of knowledge. yet they did it. "


It's pretty apparent that god doesn't want anyone to eat from the tree of knowledge just listening to religious people tak.


Dec 1 2011 4:55PM
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11630 - Karma: 24,465
oh you did not just insult my galaxy motherfucker
Dec 1 2011 4:58PM
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unreal.shooter
Posts: 562 - Karma: 52

god didnt create evil. angels tried to rebel against him so he kicked their asses down to hell and they are evil ! god dosent want pain. thats why heaven is so sick !

god created the perfect world ! and does everything for good but we always see it as him doing it for bad. we cant see the bigger picture that he sees. we only see a tiny corner of it. thats why he simply asks us to trust and put our faith in him !

Dec 1 2011 4:58PM
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piratesmiles
Posts: 20 - Karma: 10

Lol creationism. I won't write a long diatribe about the misinformation on both sides of the scientific spectrum in this thread, but I -will- say that the Bing Bang is not the most credible theory, and only compensates for up until microseconds after creation, not the creation itself.

But at least Christians know... a WIZARD DID IT.

Dec 1 2011 4:58PM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
so god gave me free will and puts all those things out there just to test me?

what a weird dude.



he gave us the mind to understand everything AND still limits it?

idk if thats a person i should worship. he is testing me and not allowing me to do what i want with the tools he gave me.



can you say logic flaw? or fallacy?


Dec 1 2011 4:59PM
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unreal.shooter
Posts: 562 - Karma: 52
yeah thats the point ?? you just backed up my point but i assume you were trying to be clever ? did you not just read what i wrote ?
Dec 1 2011 5:00PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51263 - Karma: 157,452
Yeah I did, hence what I posted.
Dec 1 2011 5:04PM
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ButteredToast.
Posts: 6459 - Karma: 2,570
question for you!

I've been contemplating the whole bible thing after being confronted by religious converters on campus lately.

How do you feel about the whole old testament? Why is it that things that we now reject about the old testament are now conveniently metaphorical? Stoning a child to death is now something we don't like - so we call it metaphorical.

Noah's ark has been shown to be entirely unfeasible, along with the flood entirely impossible. Now the story is not supposed to be taken literally.

If all these things are now to be taken as metaphors, doesn't that mean it's up to the reader to interpret it? If that's the case, then it's not God's word... its yours.

Not attacking your beliefs, just pokin' your brain.
Dec 1 2011 5:11PM
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Danoo
Posts: 77 - Karma: 146
The reason life on earth is so complex (like your watch) is because over billions of years evolution has been going on. The life forms that weren't efficient died out over and over while theore complex and efficient life forms kept living. The results compounded on themselves until humans formed. And in the big picture, humans aren't that complex. We are just a series of chemical reactions and a little electricity. We have an overinflated sense of worth and a egotistical attitude. The entire universe wasn't created for people, people are just a byproduct.
Dec 1 2011 5:42PM
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Danoo
Posts: 77 - Karma: 146
Natural selection is an anti-chance process, which gradually builds up complexity, step by tiny step. The end product of this ratcheting process is an eye, or a heart, or a brain - a device whose improbable complexity is utterly baffling until you spot the gentle ramp that leads up to it. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/richard-dawkins/why-there-almost-certainl_b_32164.html
Dec 1 2011 6:00PM
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geteducated
Posts: 6410 - Karma: 86
so we know what good is.
Dec 2 2011 12:18AM
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11630 - Karma: 24,465
i enjoy this post
Dec 2 2011 12:22AM
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Radio
Posts: 946 - Karma: 12
exactly how i feel.
Dec 2 2011 12:26AM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51263 - Karma: 157,452
That's nothing more than a guess and it's probably wrong.



Dec 2 2011 12:28AM
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11630 - Karma: 24,465
his bit about universe creation might be a guess. but he nailed evolution in a context everyone can understand. give credit where credit is due
Dec 2 2011 12:31AM
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Funnel
Posts: 7808 - Karma: 1,414
Fucking exactly. The "trolling" copout bugs me.
Dec 2 2011 12:38AM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51263 - Karma: 157,452
I never copout, I speak straight from the heart.


FUCK THE HATERS
Dec 2 2011 12:42AM
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Danoo
Posts: 77 - Karma: 146
Check out the link in my post above and read it. It address those exact things in a easy to understand way.
Dec 2 2011 4:37PM
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uosdwiSrjewoH
Posts: 4220 - Karma: 121
when i smoked weed i used to trip so hard about pretty much everything you mentioned here, billions of years, evolution, chemical reactions and electrical impulses making up all that we are, or if you want to go deeper, everything you see, feel and are is just a result of little dots attracting and repelling in different ways on an unimaginably small scale. kapow.
Dec 2 2011 4:45PM
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Crispy.
Posts: 6102 - Karma: 7,626
+1 great post. Totally agree, how could any of us come to be by accident or non intentional?
Dec 2 2011 5:08PM
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corona
Posts: 12752 - Karma: 32,264
shit happens when you party naked.
Dec 2 2011 5:10PM
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skithesprings
Posts: 9086 - Karma: 1,349
because he is the master troll
Dec 2 2011 5:11PM
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navierSTOKED
Posts: 858 - Karma: 33
the chances of your watch being made each time is astronomically low.  But, as you drop the parts more the probability increasingly approaches 1. And assuming you have an (almost) infinite amount of watch parts, it goes to 1 even quicker.  Do it once a minute (not that you'd know what a minute was without the watch... wait..) for say, 65 million years, and you've got yourself a watch store.
Dec 2 2011 8:45PM
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las.
Posts: 1959 - Karma: 1,455
Probably the main downside to Ron Paul imo.
Dec 2 2011 8:51PM
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maxwell666
Posts: 554 - Karma: 20
Lots of educated people who have their own opinions are atheist, its not a trend its a belief and you should respect it as you would like people to respect your own beliefs.

and get educated if you want to debate it, no one said the watch fell together on the first try.
The non creationist view is that life starts with single cellular organism. They have recreated the conditions from the formation of earth and observed 'almost cells' develop. Its not much of a stretch to reproducing cells, after all mutations of our cells regularly occurs.

Its pretty obvious Rome wasn't built in a day, and IF YOU stop just saying "its obvious", you might be surprised what you discover.
Dec 2 2011 8:54PM
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JIBpsy^^
Posts: 2851 - Karma: 36
I think some higher power started the first cell then let natural selection happen.
Dec 2 2011 8:56PM
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PJS.
Posts: 11943 - Karma: 895
im dissapointed that this thread is not a shitshow
Dec 2 2011 8:59PM
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RockyMountnHigh
Posts: 990 - Karma: 14
Congratulations you just fell for the ol' troll trap dumbass
Dec 2 2011 9:02PM
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Shewlur...
Posts: 5046 - Karma: 940
you realize that you make your self appear just as unintelligent by generalizing a gigantic country because you see a minority of idiotic people on TV spewing bull shit.
Dec 2 2011 9:47PM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
TV, no. i just see a subsample of mainly younger americans that still feel the need to debate something that was really settled some years ago in most countries.

like austria and especially my province are very catholic, but noone would ever think that the world is 6000 years old or that the creation story in the bible is even remotely true.

i know that americans are not perfectly described by that subsample.

so i correct myself:

dear mainly white, suburban population of america living in regions were its a normal hobby to ski:

the rest stands as it is.

thank you for pointing my mistake out.
Dec 2 2011 10:01PM
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Answerless
Posts: 392 - Karma: 118
I know for everyone reason rejects religion and creationism and even though I'm a catholic myself I think evolution is the only logical explanation.
But reason, logic and proof denies faith and without faith my religion is nothing. So I refuse to prove that his miracles were reality.
If I need to look stupid to have the lord by my side, then I choose to be called a retard on this motherfucking web.
Dec 2 2011 10:23PM
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Buzzell
Posts: 656 - Karma: 19
I completely agree with this statement. I do not believe the literal story of creation in 6 days, however looking around at the complexity of life, I cannot see how there could not be a god.
Dec 2 2011 10:32PM
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=FAIL=
Posts: 536 - Karma: 47

Religion in itself is there to fill unanswered questions; the unknown spaces in knowledge that can't be answered through science as they're just too vague.

Because something is written does not make it true. I believe in science, which in itself is a religion, but more logical than simply saying that some "big invisible fatherly figure" did it. What can you prove? I can say right now that if there is a god, may he kill me now. My family; my friends, even my dog. God will not. Because that's pain and sufferance? Ok, may he create a stone and it be sitting behind my laptop now. There isn't one.

The bible is merely written words. It could have been written by a troll. Epic trolling for the win!

Tell me how science is less reliable, and I will send you five dollars. 

Dec 3 2011 12:55AM
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TZP
Posts: 874 - Karma: 61
hey abortionator, how do you explain dinosaurs .. ?
Dec 3 2011 2:20AM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropic_principle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vestigiality



the watch example is a bad one, because evolution is a correlated process. things that worked out lead to other things. of those, only the things that worked out will be used for further development.

its like dropping 2 or three pieces of the watch a million times and then dropping one more, one more and so on.

life is very complex, yes. but 800 million years+ are a very long time for development of life and your "point" is just "everything is so nice and beautiful and god is awesome".
Dec 3 2011 6:59AM
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Obi-Wan-Jenobi
Posts: 951 - Karma: 119
sigd

Dec 3 2011 10:43AM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51263 - Karma: 157,452
I never said I believed in any religion. I think it's kind of funny to think we know everything about shit we'll probably never know.




Dec 3 2011 11:06AM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51263 - Karma: 157,452
"its a belief " if only they could just say that.


I'm agnostic btw. I just think it's funny how everybody has to feel sure that they know things to be alright. Nobody seems to have the ability to say idk.



At the same time I'm all for the quest for knowledge.

"They have recreated the conditions from the formation of earth and observed 'almost cells' develop. Its not much of a stretch to reproducing cells, after all mutations of our cells regularly occurs."


Really? I fucking doubt it. Nothing turning into something as complex as what we have today. I highly doubt they've made that happen. And def is a stretch.
Dec 3 2011 11:11AM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51263 - Karma: 157,452
I feel like we have our logical guess as too what they might have looked like. Everything else is a pretty big guess.



The fact that everything about dinosaurs is posted as fact is pretty retarded. Over the years it's developed to where we know what times periods they were from, their colors, the sounds they made, what they ate, how they hunted, and some other stuff.



It's amazing what people can know about something they don't know much about.
Dec 3 2011 11:15AM
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corona
Posts: 12752 - Karma: 32,264
It's called science, I'm sure you've heard of it before.
Dec 3 2011 11:35AM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51263 - Karma: 157,452
I watched bill nye as a kid. I think I got this category covered.
Dec 3 2011 11:39AM
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