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Why do people like Tim Tebow?

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Nathn
Posts: 2408 - Karma: 63
I can't tell if people think he's legitimately good or it's like a Lil B thing.



Discuss.

Nov 15 2011 9:31PM
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shocker611
Posts: 2599 - Karma: 423
he threw a couple of amazing balls that game, the 45 yard throw that he absolutely roped towards the end of the 1st half was one of the better balls ive seen anyone throw this year, and he also had some other real good throws. Now were they all good? of course not, but saying that he throws ducks almost exclusively is far from the truth
Dec 19 2011 10:25AM
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hey-dude-its-me
Posts: 4238 - Karma: 412
Amazing? Wtf is about this guy that completely clouds people's judgement?

He threw a couple of average balls for an NFL quarterback. He throws more ducks than spirals.
Dec 19 2011 10:30AM
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Wis_Skier_23
Posts: 2263 - Karma: 245
you jumbled your shit all together so no one knows what your talking about, and what does playing QB in high school have to do with Tebow, even if you never played a down of football you could recognize his receivers aren't getting open.  Watching that game yesterday, numerous times the commentators panned out the camera only to find receivers draped in coverage while Tebow took a sack looking for a target. Bro realize it already, Tebow's recievers minus Decker are mediocre on a good day.  They would never see the field up in Green Bay. 
Dec 19 2011 12:58PM
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InFlames
Posts: 534 - Karma: -25
I forgot how sick the Patriots secondary is..
Dec 19 2011 9:33PM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
I think you just proved his point....
Dec 19 2011 9:57PM
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InFlames
Posts: 534 - Karma: -25
Eddie Royal, and Eric Decker are both good. Demaryius Thomas..is unproven. They're a decent bunch of athletes, he just can't fuckin throw. This is coming from a Tebow supporter.
Dec 19 2011 11:13PM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
funny that tebow leads to us having the same opinion.

the big thing for NFL quarterbacks is CONSISTENCY in your throws. every other college quarterback could have a perfect passer rating in the NFL if he was able to replay every down 4-5 times.

the great ones dont need that. they have one down and make great throws 90% of the time.

of course tebow has one or two "great" throws a game. but considering that he throws it 20+ times a game, thats pretty weak.

he IS NOT A GOOD PASSER. get over it guys. one or two good balls is a horseshit ratio for an NFL quarterback. just from a passing standpoint, tebow is probably worse than all other starters and maybe even worse than a few backups. dalton and tebow are overrated because of their Ds and they never have to try something to win. look at newton, he is playing one of the best seasons ever for a rookie qb, not just stats-wise but just how he looks. but he has to force a pass every now and then because the D plays like tebow throws (for the record: THATS NOT GOOD). ANY QB SHOULD BE ABLE TO WIN GAMES WHEN THE D IS NOT GIVING UP MORE THAN 10-15 POINTS. ITS EVEN EMBARASSING THAT HE NEEDS OVERTIME FOR THAT.

tebow won games, yes, but the whole D, mcgahee and prater did too. as i said above, if the whole team Did ITS FUCKING JOB and play for ANY QB like that, orton would have a ring or two already. i know it has something to do with "leading" ability and stuff, but it kind of bugs me that other players getting millions are playing harder for these guys than for others.
Dec 24 2011 7:27AM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
the fact that you think this is just plain funny, and quite frankly should rule you out from all other QB related discussions. Tebow is by far and away, the worst looking QB from a passing standpoint that is being paid to play the game of football. that is not an exageration...its a fact. No one can dispute this. 90% of college QB's in Division 1 look way better than tebow passing wise. but no one thinks that is even remotely a strength of his. there is a reason he was #3 on the depth chart to start the year, and would have stayed there or been cut had the fans not mutinied.


the thing is, Dude Fucking Wins. no one knows exactly why, but the teams that the guy plays on arent overly talented(outside of the 2nd national champs Florida team), but they just win. without him starting, those same teams lose.


there is no real rhyme or reason to it, but he has consistently been a winner throughout his life. that will soon change because of how freakishly athletic players are in the league...but for now, you gotta give the guy props. he seems to create winning circumstances for his teams.
Dec 25 2011 1:38AM
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Piste.Off
Posts: 11586 - Karma: 1,861
the guys a winner? yea he won 2 national champions with one of the best college teams of all time. but to say he makes any team he plays on better? The broncos beat a bunch of terrible teams, got blown out by the only two decent teams, and just got embarrassed by arguably the worst team in the nfl. He's not a winner, he has beaten the few teams worse than him and thats it. He doesn't create winning circumstances, winning circumstances fall into his hands as other teams shoot themselves in the foot. Considering his strength on the ground and terrible passing he is a below average nfl qb at best.
Dec 25 2011 2:01AM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
ok sorry that i didnt make him bad enough :) didnt want to get killed by a tebow-fan.

my point is that its unprofessional for his teammates to play harder now than they did for orton when orton lit it up a few years back with lloyd and stuff.



he has to change his playing style. and a lot for that matter. a "bulldozer"-scrambling QB wont hurt anybody next year, believe me that. they pretty much shut down his rushing attempts and the whole option thingy a lot since there is a lot of tape about it now.

vick is a superior athlete, faster than 17-18 of the other players on the field and nifty like an RB. thats what kills you as a D, when the opposing QB is FAST when scrambling. franchise QBs are not allowed to take hits, but if its the only way to make plays (which is tebows style, run over a guy), you have a problem.

and for the record, vick was always a "gimmick" player and not taken seriously until last year when he was also a top-notch passer going hand in hand with his running ability. and even vick tuned his running down, playing more roethlisberger like and extending plays left and right (sort of like tebow does), but tebow doesnt throw bullets from down there. not at all, youre right.

Dec 25 2011 11:31AM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
Not a single team he beat was what I'd consider a good team.  Not one of them is even in the playoff picture now that I think of it.

Can we just all agree that a win streak against the worst of the NFL with the necessity of overtime and a kicker putting up 3 bombs a game....is weak?  Do we honestly think there aren't 5 or 6 guys who could replace him and pull out an 8-8 season?

He makes terrible decisions under pressure if he can't get a gap to run through.  Teams are learning to contain him and he has nothing to fall back on.  He scored as many points for Buffalo as he did for Denver last game.
Dec 25 2011 5:25PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
Dallas, Jets. shut up now por favor.
Dec 25 2011 5:51PM
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Piste.Off
Posts: 11586 - Karma: 1,861
broncos never played the cowboys and the jets are god awful and not a playoff team.
Dec 25 2011 5:57PM
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Anathema
Posts: 21048 - Karma: 5,061
TEBOW TIIIIIIIIIIIIIME
Dec 25 2011 6:07PM
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hey-dude-its-me
Posts: 4238 - Karma: 412
wow you suck at this, but its ok since you played qb in highschool and we're the ones who don't know what we're talking about
Dec 25 2011 6:16PM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
wat
Dec 25 2011 7:41PM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
and the jets game and a lot of other wins were almost singlehandedly won by a pick six or another good defensive play.

as the other guy said up top. ANY half-decent pro QB should win most of these games with the defense backing him like that. he can go 55 minutes without forcing a pass and punt 8-10 times and still be in it. i was surprised that they beat the chargers and bears to be honest, but both made individual mistakes against the denver D when it counted and were still in it despite horrific offensive showings.

a lot QBs are carried by their team more than they carry the team themselves, especially tebow, flacco, sanchez, ryan and in some way a.smith.

yes they might have good games every now and then but their primary jobs are

1. not turning the ball over
2. handing the ball off
3. executing a play-action pass every 5 snaps
4. not turning the ball over

and thats it. if one of the guys above was to go to IR tomorrow, would those teams still be somewhat as good as before? YES. unlike the pats, chargers, eagles, bears, steelers, saints, packers and panthers, their QBs dont carry them and this normally will hurt you in situation like against the bills when some shit hits the fan and you cant stick to your gameplan.
Dec 25 2011 7:53PM
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InFlames
Posts: 534 - Karma: -25
Flacco is such a shit quarterback. This is entirely irrelevant, but he's gotta be the biggest choke artist ever. If they brought in a REAL QB, that team would win superbowls all day. When they put the game in his hands, they lose. When they give the ball to Ray Rice, they win. That's now how it should be. Somethin like when he has over 30 pass attempts their chance of winning drops to 38 percent? but when they give Ray Rice more than 25 carries their chance of winning increases like twofold.
Dec 25 2011 11:58PM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
....what? Are you serious?
Dec 26 2011 12:03AM
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hey-dude-its-me
Posts: 4238 - Karma: 412
hahaha damn it man I was hoping you went to town with that one. but yea I guess its not really deserving of anything more than the standard 'wtf'
Dec 26 2011 12:05AM
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Answerless
Posts: 392 - Karma: 118
Out of all the teams you could pick, you chose the fucking Cowboys and the Jets? What the fuck?
Dec 26 2011 1:44PM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
I'm still confused, the Broncos didn't even play the Cowboys this year.
Dec 26 2011 4:26PM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
its pretty obvious that THEY WOULD HAVE LOST. californiagrown got it soooo right its not even funny or ironic
Dec 26 2011 4:27PM
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hey-dude-its-me
Posts: 4238 - Karma: 412
wow what a sad fucking day to be an NFL fan, now I know how all you guys felt when Simon won with the Double Front a few years ago....
Dec 27 2011 7:57PM
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Answerless
Posts: 392 - Karma: 118
I just thought he meant they were the best teams in the NFL. Did he mean that Broncos are worst or better than them? Wtf
Dec 28 2011 1:34AM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
wat
Dec 28 2011 6:25AM
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kingcomet32
Posts: 638 - Karma: 13
I think Tebow is over-rated, that being said he is definitely a good quarterback. He doesnt deserve the praise from espn that he gets or the hate from nfl fans

I looked at his stats compared to a great quarterback (Brady), an injured great quarterback with a more rush focused style of playing (Vick), and a pretty good qb (Fitzpatrick). I chose these to see where tebow fits in and the role he plays for his team.

I think a large majority of the wins he are due to the defense, this is proven by the low scores hes consistently won with. He has a lot of 3 and outs but very little turn-overs which i think about balance out when compared with other qbs.

He has half the throwing attempts of the other qbs so any cumulative stats are useless, he obviously plays a different style of qb (one more close to vick) and rushes more than he throws. But if you look at averages, his completion percentage is pretty low (has been on the rise) but his yards per attempt is even with fitzpatrick. hes been sacked a lot, this could be due to bad receivers a bad line or holding the ball too long, still something to consider, his rushing average is way closer to vicks than any of the other qbs being compared.

TL;DR SUMMARY:
I think Tebow is a bad version of vick, if he can work on his passing maybe get some better receivers out there for him i think he could eventually be one of the best quarterbacks in the league, until then hes definitely a good quarterback, turning the broncos record around once he began starting, his methods are unorthodox but they work.

Dec 28 2011 1:06PM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
i didnt need the stats to know that but still nice of you to underline my point with facts.

and his line isnt terrible. a lot of times against the bears for example, they kept peppers off him for at least 10 seconds. maybe they are not good in general, but they can run block and are great at relocating the nearest threat when tebow scrambles left and right.

and how many other QBs can afford to have the own punter come out over 7 times a game and still be in it? especially the games against MIA, SD, CHI, KC and NYJ were won by the defense who held him in it. do you honestly think orton would have put up less than 16,2 points per game in those five contests? and if i remember correctly, around 2.4 points per game were defensive scores and idk how many 40/50+ FGs from prater.

any NFL QB should win these games, and preferably not in the 4th quarter or OT.

although people always say that netwon and vick have similar styles, they are superior, vick especially since last year. he could win A LOT of games if the D allows only 15 pts/game because he is in it all the time and eventually he will score a TD or multiple FGs. but if he has to throw because the other team got a fast start (patriots/lions/bills) he looks lost like not many QBs i have seen.
Dec 28 2011 2:02PM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627

Bahahaha...  I love it.  This pissing match is pretty funny at times. 

He is a great running back who can throw the ball just ok.  The guy's got a slower-than-molasses pass read you have to admit.  Aside from that I like watching the guy as he's an explosive player, but will he ever be one of the true greats?  I don't think so.  He's too one-dimensional in his current semi-raw state, and I highly doubt his physical style of play will lend itself to his longevity and therefore his overall career stats. 

Now if he can dial in his pass read and his arm, dude could be on track for a HOF bid no doubt...  But I don't see it happening as of now to be completely honest, and that's as non biased as I can be.  It's just not the QBs job to run the ball repeatedly, that's how they get hurt.  It's nice when he can do it, but to try to build an offense around it is not realistic in the short and DEFINITELY not in the long run. 

I say all that with as little bias as I can muster.  Dude is a great athlete and a hell of a runner but as for the overall QB package, he leaves a lot to be desired.  Just my .02 

Dec 28 2011 2:23PM
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Anathema
Posts: 21048 - Karma: 5,061
hey lets all look at STATS and be critics.

how about you watch him play and then make your judgments?
Dec 28 2011 2:24PM
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Piste.Off
Posts: 11586 - Karma: 1,861
I watch him play and he makes my eyes bleed. As a broncos fan I want to slit my wrists every time he takes a snap.
Dec 28 2011 2:28PM
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Anathema
Posts: 21048 - Karma: 5,061
teams should be running the ball more. what he's doing is a good thing. he just needs to work on his accuracy and his fucking spiral, cause when he throws it's like "oh god where's it going.."

but he runs the ball like a full back and knows how to step it up when he needs to. these are good things.
Dec 28 2011 2:31PM
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Piste.Off
Posts: 11586 - Karma: 1,861
Why should teams run the ball more? Every elite team right now is a pass first offense with the exception of maybe the ravens. He runs well and knows how to take hits. His 4th quarter comebacks are amazing, yet without his defense and special teams playing like they were, he loses every single game with his comeback or not. He got saved game after game by someone else yet since he scores a game tying td in the 4th he gets all the credit, where as the game wouldn't even be close without his def and special teams.
Dec 28 2011 2:40PM
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kingcomet32
Posts: 638 - Karma: 13
all i have to go by are the stats, i live in the east coast with no football packages i cant watch anybody besides giants jets or the bills. Or the highlights but those are only the times he isnt fucking up

if i saw him play a couple games i'd rather judge on that but for now its just stats. I mostly agree with whoever said hes a fullback with an okay arm
Dec 28 2011 4:43PM
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nacho.steez
Posts: 435 - Karma: 136
Dec 28 2011 5:27PM
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hey-dude-its-me
Posts: 4238 - Karma: 412
don't listen to the argument that you have to watch him play, all you need is stats, you can figure out/predict literally everything in sports using only stats, the oddsmakers in vegas aren't disecting video tape they're crunching numbers day in and day out and they are virtually never wrong.
Dec 28 2011 6:54PM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
not sure if serious.

but even when i watched teeeebowww-ooooh-nooo in action, he didnt look very good. he doesnt even get a lot of carries now. he extends plays well due to his line giving him time and eventually throws a duck to a wide open receiver. seriously, if you take away his throws where he threw the ball within 4 seconds after the snap, you wont have enough data to qualify for a passer rating.

its not like when you watch him play you say "WHOOOOA. the stats: fuck em".
Dec 28 2011 7:42PM
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kingcomet32
Posts: 638 - Karma: 13
you could do that.... you'd have to look at tons of stats and for a real display of how he plays youd need way more games than hes played, if you crunch the numbers on some of the older quarterbacks itd work but tebow has little stats to go off of so i think watching him play is just as if not more important in seeing if he'll be a good long term quarterback, even denver wont claim him as a franchise player yet which says something.
Dec 29 2011 6:46AM
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hey-dude-its-me
Posts: 4238 - Karma: 412
yea not serious at all, vegas loses money everyday on sports betting....
Dec 29 2011 9:04AM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627

*sigh* 

No.  Not even close.  Vick *might* have done that years ago when he came from VT and hit the ground running quite literally.  Vick was the first true running QB in my mind.  Tebow is just Vick 2.0 really, and is not redefining the Quarterback position, dude.  Not even a little bit.  He's a great runner but c'mon man let's dial it back a notch, I think you're getting waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay ahead of yourself here.   

Dec 29 2011 9:39AM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
although i am pretty sure that you can make money in the longterm (not much though) with a perfect system based on stats, and all of them with like a regression system or whatever.

i dont say that it will be much, but i am quite sure that you can make a few percent plus every year when you incorporate A LOT of data.
Dec 29 2011 9:42AM
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hey-dude-its-me
Posts: 4238 - Karma: 412
Im talking about the oddsmakers for casinos, the teams of computer and math nerds who sit in a windowless rooms for days and all they do is analyze data. They're accuracy in predicting games is phenomenal, the lines don't always reflect who they think will win since they get adjusted pretty much daily to account for betting patterns but they know who is going to win the game and by how much, its the starting point for them and not even the hardest part of what they do.

I mean have you ever bet an over/under? Those lines are a lot less susceptible to change since theres less emotion involved when the fan/bettor is picking his side (more likely to pick for/against a certain team than a certain number whether they realize it or not) they are nailbittingly close EVERY single time, even in basketball where the score varies over a wider range.

Oddsmakers are the most accurate predictors of who will win a game.
Oddsmakers analyze exponentially more data than they do tape.

Professional Handicappers are the second most accurate predictors of who will win a game.
Professional Handicappers analyze exponentially more data than they do video tape.

Lets just stick to Tebow hate its a lot more fun and theres actually an argument to be made on the subject.
Dec 29 2011 9:59AM
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JamesR
Posts: 3396 - Karma: -12
patriots will win super bowl this year
Dec 29 2011 10:00AM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
Nope, they're defense is too bad.

And Tebow's performance today was the worst I've seen in years. Absolutely miserable, not a single team he's beaten has a winning record.
Jan 1 2012 7:35PM
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DADDYlongLEGS
Posts: 1574 - Karma: 47
And now they're off to the playoffs...so fucking stupid
Jan 1 2012 7:51PM
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BMB
Posts: 3138 - Karma: 232
this i hope
Jan 1 2012 8:32PM
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PopsicleStand
Posts: 6890 - Karma: 147
after the last few games, (disclaimer Pats fan here) I am convinced that we have as good of a chance as anybody. Can we overpower the saints or the pack? not sure, but I feel like we have a chance.
Jan 1 2012 9:35PM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
I think they do have a chance, but if the Pats defense has anything other than a spectacular game then no amount of points will offset the damage Brees or Rodgers can do to that secondary.
Jan 1 2012 11:35PM
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Kekambas.
Posts: 904 - Karma: 485
This, pats d blows major d

(see what i did there?)
Jan 2 2012 11:41AM
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