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Gun Control Laws

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smeeze
Posts: 879 - Karma: 126
I personally think a person has every right to own and use firearms in a responsible way. Thoughts?
Aug 30 2011 10:05AM
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hoodratz47
Posts: 11992 - Karma: 9,212
dont be like this


Aug 31 2011 5:31AM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
1:07 was hilarious.
Aug 31 2011 6:18AM
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hoodratz47
Posts: 11992 - Karma: 9,212
i dunno the terrerorist that blows himself up is pretty funny.
Aug 31 2011 8:41AM
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.RYAN66
Posts: 5381 - Karma: 235
i can have more life experience and be 5 years old then someone who is 24. but seriously i have to agree with the guy who said you think your all high and mighty because your 24 and you can talk down to people younger then you. take a few sleeping pills then get up tomorrow and go outside and do something creative.
Aug 31 2011 8:56AM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
I said multiple times, it's hard to ask about someone's age without sounding condescending in a situation like this and it kind of escalated from there. I wanted to know how and why a person of that age has such and such opinions and beliefs and to see if it's culturally embedded or taught, and I don't know what you're referring to with a five-yeard-old having more life experience than an older person, that's an oxymoron.

I'm sorry for all the cuntbag etc. comments though, totally uncalled for, just got a bit riled up.

Aug 31 2011 9:07AM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Bumpan





:P
Aug 31 2011 3:36PM
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huge-go
Posts: 1451 - Karma: 33
Of course no guns whatsoever on earth would be ideal, but it just isn't realistic. I see the other side of the coin, and acknowledge it would be best for the whole world, but unrealistic nonetheless. The world probably would be a better place if everyone were hippies.
Aug 31 2011 3:48PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Pacifist =/= hippie
Aug 31 2011 3:50PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Thanks. Sometimes you gotta take a step back and look what the fuck you've said, in this case quite a few expletives weren't needed.


Anyway, let's keep this discussion going.
Aug 31 2011 4:54PM
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come_at_me_bro
Posts: 494 - Karma: 19
Ok so I told myself that I wasn't gonna get involved in this thread for a couple reasons
1: I too am 16, hence dont have as much 'life experience' as some of the older members do
2: I lack the statistics that I want to make a good, informative post
But, here goes nothing. When I was little, my family used to travel to Europe A LOT. We have been all over, but mostly in the UK. Often times, I would see police armed with nothing more than a baton. Curios, I wondered why and it seemed as though they had a lot less crime than we did. I firsthand have seen the damage that fire-arms can do when they are as easy to acquire as they are today. Ya, my family was raised around guns, so I might be a little biased there, but I try to educate myself and not be one of the ignorant, hard-headed people that you see a lot of on this site.

I firmly believe that to purchase a fire-arm, there should be MUCH stricter laws. The 2nd amendment says that our right to keep andbear arms shall not be infringed, so no I dont believe that our personal weapons should be taken away, but with as many stupid people as we have in this country, it is terrifyingly easy for them to purchase weapons and mis-use them. The fact that almost anyone can go and buy a hand-gun with a 20 round clip and hollowpoint rounds is scary by itself, but the fact there is no psychological test to see if they should even be carrying that weapon is even scarier. Im not naiive, and I know that there is no sure-fire way to keep weapons out of the hands of people who really want to acquire them, drug dealers, gang members, etc, but I know that the United States couldbe trying a little harder to keep weapons away from those who shouln't have them. So many people on this thread think that we need guns to 'defend ourselves' and yeah, I can see that but, but realistically, how often are we going to pull a loaded fire-arm on an intruder, and ACTUALLY be ready to kill them? Yes, I have read through this entire thread, and I have seen all of your arguments about that. I personally know some people who were n the Special Forces, and they have told me how muchharder it is to kill someone that everyone now a days thinks, and that you will live with that experience for the rest of your life.

So I guess thats my rant, I dont know of any one, good solution for the gun problem in the US, but ya I guess thats just some food for thought
Aug 31 2011 6:09PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
This was a post that I was hoping to see. Your age or experience doesn't matter when you can explain how and why your opinion is formed instead of just saying "constitutional right".

Very solid stuff.
Aug 31 2011 6:18PM
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howlongcanausern
Posts: 4982 - Karma: 1,737
bird season opens tomorrow fuck yeah
Aug 31 2011 6:30PM
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Inbred_Redneck
Posts: 2776 - Karma: 28
FUCK YEAH


gonna get me some doves this weekend.
Aug 31 2011 6:48PM
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LibertyTree
Posts: 2 - Karma: 10
That quote never happened?

"You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass." -Admiral Isoruku Yamamoto


When the people fear their government there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. – Thomas Jefferson
Aug 31 2011 10:40PM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 269
exactly! not that the people owning guns is the ONLY way for the government to fear the people, but probably the best way. unfortunately the government doesnt fear us, we fear them, which is wrong. maybe we need more relaxed gun laws? :)
Aug 31 2011 11:08PM
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uosdwiSrjewoH
Posts: 4220 - Karma: 121
pretty darn sure the quote actually is bullshit, i can't find one scrap of proof that it's real aside from gun nuts using it as an argument. he did say "i fear all we have done is awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with resolve" though, which is pretty rad/true
Aug 31 2011 11:12PM
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macdonuts
Posts: 110 - Karma: 29
mike-o you have one of the most ignorant arguements i have ever heard. It is ludicrous that you say who do we need protection from. It doesn't take a physicist to know that there are evil, psychotic, and desperate people in the world who do not have a problem with entering your home with a weapon and threatening your family or yourself. In the case you may see why a person may have a gun to protect themselves and their families because anything could happen in the 20 minutes it takes the cops to get to your house. You may believe that it is possible to live in a war free world "utopia" but it is philosophically impossible to achieve such a thing. As long as man walks the earth there will always be someone who wants to rule over the rest and will not hesitate to fulfill his/hers desires through fighting (war). There will always be a need for guns due to this sad but true aspect of human psychology.Also there is the age old arguement guns dont kill people, people kill people but this is also very true. If guns are taken away from people due to your reasons for banning guns then it would also be necessary to ban knives, cars and remove hands and feet from people bodies, and lock everyone in solitary confinement to stop violence. Now thinking about the previous statement you obviously realize that guns are not the problem and the banning of guns will obviously not stop violence.
Sep 1 2011 12:52AM
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uosdwiSrjewoH
Posts: 4220 - Karma: 121
i think the idea is that it'll stop people from having guns
Sep 1 2011 12:55AM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
You do understand there's a pretty large population in our world who sleep safely in their homes with their families, yet do not own guns for scenarios you describe, and they're perfectly fine with out them? Once again, it seems you are speaking of fear, a culture of fear and what-ifs.

You're logic is backwards. You say man is evil, hence we need guns to protect ourselves. I say the man is pretty damn less able to rule the world with only knives. A knife, along with cars and our appendices, have quite many other applications than violent behaviour.

Saying my argument is ignorant couldn't be farther from the truth, I just happen to see things very differently than you.
Sep 1 2011 5:48AM
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LibertyTree
Posts: 2 - Karma: 10
Im not scared of having someone run up in my house, but if they did they wouldnt be coming out. That aside i buy guns because they are fun as fuck to shoot. Ever shot a squirell with a AR15? Its fucking sweet.
Sep 1 2011 7:26AM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Yeah, I don't really respond to alias' posts. Who are you again and when is your ban lifted?
Sep 1 2011 7:33AM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Your*


Man, my mind's having a field day with misplaced apostrophes lately.
Sep 1 2011 7:40AM
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.RYAN66
Posts: 5381 - Karma: 235
You are not helping our cause
Sep 1 2011 7:45AM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
After a bit of searching, it seems to be deemed as bogus and an apocryphal quote, paraphrased from some reverend's speech on gun ownership in Louisiana in the 60s.
Sep 1 2011 8:06AM
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howlongcanausern
Posts: 4982 - Karma: 1,737
so do guns:

blowin shit up (ever shot a half-full propane tank?, shit is so cash)

huntin'

shooting at targets
Sep 1 2011 12:12PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
I think you're just trolling now, but still, if those are the only real practical uses for weaponry then I'll be damned, could might as well be deemed obsolete.
Sep 1 2011 12:16PM
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howlongcanausern
Posts: 4982 - Karma: 1,737
they are far from obsolete. they are extremely efficient at killing living things, which is useful.
Sep 1 2011 12:30PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
So what are we talking about here? Cougars, shit like that?

Man's arrogance toward nature shouldn't be the norm in our world anymore - theoretically.

Sep 1 2011 12:41PM
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1337
Posts: 31038 - Karma: 29,003
>implying guns aren't already man-made
Sep 1 2011 12:59PM
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howlongcanausern
Posts: 4982 - Karma: 1,737
cougars? dude what are you talking about?

i'm talking about pigs, cattle. you know, animals people eat. they gotta be killed somehow.

a .22 round to the brain is a very humane way of killing an animal, imo (this is the way many cattle are slaughtered....they don't even use a gun they basically use a pvc pipe with a nail in it). shit if i were to choose a way to die a .308 to the back of my skull would be the way.

i digress, the point is guns have a place in modern society and people should have the right to own them.
Sep 1 2011 1:34PM
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.RYAN66
Posts: 5381 - Karma: 235
Your name should be youdumb insted of youmad
Sep 1 2011 1:38PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Haha, you say guns have a place as a humane way to kill a cattle, then you specifically say that there is a non-gun way to do the same thing? And you want to be killed with a .308.

Just give up. After four pages there have been many good arguments for gun use and ownership in modern society, but you certainly just dove off the deep end with this bullshit.
Sep 1 2011 2:19PM
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howlongcanausern
Posts: 4982 - Karma: 1,737
instead of bringing up self-defense, (beating a dead horse) I was trying to shed light on other practical uses for firearms.

as far as the device used to slaughter the animal, legally it's considered a gun/firearm because it has a firing pin and barrel. therefore it would fall under gun control legislation...not trying to sound extreme or dive off the deep end here.
Sep 1 2011 3:01PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Click for larger image.

Call it.
Sep 1 2011 3:17PM
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howlongcanausern
Posts: 4982 - Karma: 1,737
that's a really creepy picture
Sep 1 2011 4:04PM
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es94
Posts: 291 - Karma: 67
whats the best kind of gun control?......using two hands.

harharhar. but seriously, the atheist argument that the bible was written about 2 thousand years ago and doesnt have bearing on todays society can easily be trasferred to this issue.

when the constitution was written, honestly most of america was yeoman farmers.  they were NOT mostly city dwellers and they were NOT for the most part living in extreme close proximity to other people. dont be douches and say boston, philadelhia, ny and virginia were all cities at the time....i know. but for the most part, the majority of the US in that time period was roughing it in the woods and on farms.

allowing the ownership of firearms was not only important to the success of these early americans (for hunting and keeping predators away from their livestock) but there was also an inherent political motive.  at the time when the constitution was written, the US was in a very fragile state and many other world powers were breathing down our necks waiting for us to fall and attack.  by allowing the farmers to own guns, they were able to quickly and easily form militias, which were needed with little to no REAL organized military at the time.

fast forward to today. im not going to tell you if i think people should or shouldnt be allowed to own guns, it shoud definitely be regulated. however....before mr. redneck conservative second amendment comes on here and talks about it as his Constitutional right dont take my freedom!!! yahdeyaddah..consider the differences in US culture and population from today to when the constitution was written
Sep 2 2011 9:56AM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Wise words, I agree completely.
Sep 2 2011 10:45AM
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.RYAN66
Posts: 5381 - Karma: 235
Very valid point. And what were necessities at that time are nor hobbies and sports. Hunting is no longer needed but it is something that most people love to do. I am one of those people the thrill that you get of seeing something in front of you and HUMANELY harvesting it is an awesome feeling. But hunting rifles aren't the issue here. Handguns are the mAin one. And as much as I love shooting them they are the gun that is used in crimes you don't see a guy robbing a store with a hunting rifle. I think we need to have stricter enforcement on the purchase of handguns as well as the ATF cracking down on illegal weapons as they are what the crimes are being commited on. Next is assault rifles and they are a big part of recreational shooting now. But do we really need something that can hold 50 bullets at a time. Hell no. According to the NRA shooters should have no more then six bullets in a cli
Sep 2 2011 11:30AM
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.RYAN66
Posts: 5381 - Karma: 235
Fuck mobile ns sorry. 6 bullets in a clip at one time. So I love shooting those guns but they are something that can be used to kill a massive amount of people. So I can agree with you guys on that they need to be severely regulated but not far enough where they become obsolete. Americans are very proud of our rights and something we don't like to give up. There are people who don't own guns but just like the fact that our govt isn't telling us we can't. Sorry for the mega paragraph and spelling since I'm on my phone but you guys should get the gist of my argument
Sep 2 2011 11:34AM
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Zimmerman
Posts: 6992 - Karma: 1,021
THANK YOU
Sep 3 2011 9:46PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Call it, honcho.
Sep 3 2011 10:03PM
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.Tom.
Posts: 1176 - Karma: 910
Just something that came across my mind recently.

After the fairly recent UK riots, I was so glad of UK gun laws. None of the rioters had guns, none of the shopkeepers had guns, none of the "vigilante" groups that went out on the streets to stop the rioters had guns. I couldn't imagine what might have happened otherwise.

Perhaps the riots might not have happened at all if people did have guns, but this seems like such a backwards, medieval stand point. People deciding not to act due to a fear of your common man scares me. I don't believe the power of policing a nation should be in every citizens reach, if that makes sense. We have a police force and laws for a reason I suppose. Those should be the only thing holding back people from what they want to do, after all it's what modern civilization is built on.

Ok that was a bit of a ramble which is probably filled with holes but I can't be arsed to write anymore.
Sep 3 2011 10:29PM
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.Tom.
Posts: 1176 - Karma: 910
Also this. Really good point raised here.
Sep 3 2011 10:36PM
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Obi-Wan-Jenobi
Posts: 951 - Karma: 119
this will never happen ever. people are inheirtly sinful so someone some where will always be striving for power, and he probably wont care if he has to kill a few to get it
Sep 4 2011 12:30AM
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vailsux.com
Posts: 1769 - Karma: 440
Well shit, that sucks, fuck modern civilization.
Sep 4 2011 1:40AM
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huge-go
Posts: 1451 - Karma: 33
One thing I want people to answer who are saying that we have the police to protect us is this: Police are not everywhere at all times, so inherently when a crime happens, the majority of the time there is a response time. Is it not better to eliminate the response time?
Sep 4 2011 1:57AM
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.Tom.
Posts: 1176 - Karma: 910
Sure, of course it would be. In a perfect world we'd have police that could be everywhere. Why police and not just normal people? Because (hopefully), the police are trained and employed to deal with crime. We give them the power, and the responsibility to know what to do in certain situations, this power is moderated and controlled. Of course the police have their flaws, something that comes along with humans not being perfect, sometimes that power is abused.

Unless you suggest training every citizen, I don't think the average person has the necessary training or instructions to take the law into their own hands. It's a responsibility and power that I don't think should be free for everyone, humanity imo isn't ready for it.
Sep 4 2011 2:17AM
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.Tom.
Posts: 1176 - Karma: 910
I disagree completely. Current modern society is flawed for sure, but humanity itself, I would say no. To me this view point is incredibly depressing and defeatist, the idea that we are stuck where we are, unable to create a better future.

It's something (and I hate to do this) born out of religion. An idea used to give merit to the existance of a god which can save us from our unchangeable path of evil. But I'll try not to get into that.

It's a self fufilling prophecy in a large sense. If you live your life expecting your fellow man to do evil rather than good (or whatever society deems as good/evil, nihilist) then I don't think it takes a genius to figure out the outcome.

I don't know where I'm going with this but yeh, I hate that outlook on life.
Sep 4 2011 2:26AM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,682
I don't think he is advocating a civilian taking the law into their own hands. I think he is advocating a citizen having the right, and the ability to defend themselves.

What is the time it takes to dial 911 (or other ICE number) and wait for law enforcement to show up? What will the quality of those LE officers be? Many LE Officers lack adequate training to handle a dangerous armed individual.

What are the moderations and controls in place with regards to LE? How are these enforced?
Sep 4 2011 2:27AM
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.Tom.
Posts: 1176 - Karma: 910
I can't answer your questions on LE, I'm not an expert, plus I'm from a different country to you. What I'm defending is the ideal that we have a group of people who are trained and regulated effectively to carry out the law, because not everyone can be. I know that's a really unsatasfactory reply, but I don't know what else to say.

As to your first question: I'm all for self defense, I'm not saying people should just do nothing full stop. However, I believe a gun is a step too far, simply due to the split second decision which can end someones life, all you need to do is pull a trigger. I don't think the average citizen should have the burden of responsibility in making that decision, it's just too great of a power for the civilian.
Sep 4 2011 2:38AM
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