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Another King of Style thread

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Jacob_W
Posts: 812 - Karma: 1,387
Just thought I'd post this here. Been thinking quite a lot about city competitions and our contest scene in general. Sort of a long read.

http://www.freeride.se/jacobwester/2010/11/23/thoughts-on-style-and-its-royal-family/

I have no idea how to make that a link so if anyone wants to help a brother out, go ahead.

Nov 23 2010 4:20AM
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Matty_C
Posts: 2598 - Karma: 236

In the main I agree with much of what you say, on brobomb and on here, but I think there are times, this being one, that you need to think more clearly before running your mouth. You aren't the only person that's allowed to have controversial views in skiing.

Jacob won at the London Freeze (which had the same lame man-on-man one hit format) and placed well in the finals in Budapest and Stockholm. Bearing in mind how many guys are killing it these days I hardly think he's being a sore loser. Clearly the these formats benefit him directly (and props to him for being consistent in stomping his dubs in sketchy setups). The fact that the current situation plays into his hands and yet he's still campaigning for change is all the more commendable in my view. If it was Casabon or someone complaining then your criticism would be appropriate.

That is all. 

Nov 23 2010 1:05PM
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Alex_G
Posts: 11902 - Karma: 1,018
if you think you don't have the credentials and credibility to do this, you are obviously mistaken...anybody who has the capacity and capability in skiing to change the comp format should and needs to do this right away.
Nov 23 2010 1:16PM
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williams
Posts: 3083 - Karma: 9,070
incorporating the street league format into any comp would be soo dope.

you should seriously push for this jacob.
Nov 23 2010 1:16PM
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RuffRydrz
Posts: 305 - Karma: 197
THIS RIGHT HERE IS THE REASON CONTEST SKIING BLOOOOOOOOWS...IT SHOULD NOT BE ABOUT WHAT TRICKS "SHOULD WIN" IT SHOULD BE ABOUT WHAT TRICKS YOU WANT TO DO. THIS IS FREESKIING...NOT REGIMENTED SKIING
Nov 23 2010 1:23PM
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Malczyk
Posts: 1433 - Karma: 1,880
good rant and points Jacob, you trailed off a bit at the end but I get the point. You can judge comps on style and I dont believe thousands of people can do a flawless switch 7 but oh well. Plus a bunch of steexy cork 3s and sw 5s is not enough for the XXXXtreme games so I concede it probably wont happen.

The street league idea is spot on. I think the only big air comp that had it right was the WSI superfinal which you probably should have won a few years ago. It showed how an athlete can be consistant in landing a variety of tricks in succession. I'm all for it. Good bloggin!
Nov 23 2010 1:27PM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
threads
Nov 23 2010 1:28PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,500
i still say 2 people go off at the same time
Nov 23 2010 1:34PM
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skimanskimanskim
Posts: 1515 - Karma: 1,715
I'm not a fan of competition skiing whatsoever, but if your going to wine about the athletes who "want to learn the tricks they need to WIN," then you should probably just stop following anything that is competition oriented in the first place. You clearly don't get the point. Competition skiing doesn't blow anymore than any other competitions in other sports, the people entering it are clearly going to do the tricks they need to win.

If you don't like competition skiing, so be it. But don't argue about a huge load of common sense... The reason why Freeskiing is so great (especially now that people are starting to recognize that contests are not everything) is because you don't need to compete to express your skiing and get recognition.

And Casual, making the assumption that Jacob is "rich" from skiing is rather absurd. That assumption is not fair whatsoever, especially from where your sitting.
Nov 23 2010 2:02PM
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Rogge
Posts: 5772 - Karma: 3,867
Dyrdek's Street League wasn't as successful as skateboarders would've hoped in regards to mainstream appeal but what you did get is three diverse and talented skateboarders winning each event.

Great post Jacob!
Nov 23 2010 2:10PM
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quebecfreestyler
Posts: 13040 - Karma: 1,418
Qualifications were a fakie 10 and dub flip contest and finals ended up being add a 180-360-540 to the trick you did in the 540 jump . Still those were some of the greatest ski big air comps I've seen.

 having to change either the axis, the side of your spin or the way you take off (foward or fakie) on every trick makes everything a lot better.
Nov 23 2010 2:37PM
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casual
Posts: 6712 - Karma: 6,746
I don't know that I "don't get it", and I stand behind what I've said.

I will say, that I will gladly pat you on the back if you play a role in making a significant shift away from the current sorry, stagnant affair that is competitive freeskiing.

We all agree that big air contests, particularly those of the bracket/battle format, are a joke. My issue with all of this is that by competing, and holding a big check over your head, you're contributing to the "problem"—a blog post doesn't negate that.

Of COURSE you're a "big enough pro" to host a contest....I'm not saying you need to buy cases of champagne, pay Snoop, and fly everyone in on helicopters, how bout: build a jump, get an MC, offer a modest prize, and hold the contest in a convenient venue/time where the freeski elite will all be (in the wake of X-Games, or some other heavily attended contest?...SIA?). If it's a success, if other riders like it, if the FANS like it, maybe that little comp will be the model for bigger comps to emulate. You're clearly influential, and arguably one of the most popular freeskiers on the planet, man. Your opinion is going to hold weight...but your ACTIONS more so.

I just want to see you put your money where your mouth is, Jacob.
Nov 23 2010 2:53PM
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p-oskier
Posts: 1407 - Karma: 58
This^, it would be sick if you did a comp this winter with this format, it does not need to be big and all. The comp guys are going to be in Colorado in January anyways so it would probably be easy for them to come anyways.
Nov 23 2010 3:02PM
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AdrenalineGarage
Posts: 261 - Karma: 244
Rogge,

I think the problem with mainstream appeal of the street league has less to do with the format and more with the way that the story gets told. Why is Kelly Slater on the cover of SI when surfing is an infinitely less watchable sport for the mainstream than skiing? Because it's a good story. Why did all Americans go crazy about Lance Armstrong or Michael Phelps when they never gave a shit about cycling or swimming in the past? Because they were good stories. Where's the good story in skating? I don't have a clue. If it was there, for example if Tony Hawk on the verge of entering a nursing home succeeded at owning the street league, people would watch, in my opinion.

The X Games succeeds at being the biggest event in action sports not because they have the best courses (ha!), formats (ha!), judging (haha!) or prize purse, but because no one can escape the hype--essentially the story (Shaun White 3-peat!)--that they want to tell in the week between the final football playoff game and the Super Bowl.

So I think formats have less to do with creating an audience than keeping the events interesting once the audience has tuned in.

Speaking of interesting formats, in 2009 the Winter Park Open did a five run, drop one big air format. You were there. What did you think of that?



Nov 23 2010 3:31PM
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casual
Posts: 6712 - Karma: 6,746
I didn't make any assumption about his being rich. I said he's won several thousand dollars competing. That's the truth, and that doesn't mean that he is, or I think he is, rich. Where I'm sitting is irrelevant, and you're making a bigger assumption than I ever did, by bringing that up.


Nov 23 2010 3:45PM
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Alex_G
Posts: 11902 - Karma: 1,018
^just wait till the skateboard generation of today gets older, skateboarding and other action sports will become mainstream with the progression of time. skateboarding will become an american pastime by the time we're older and have kids. our kids will be able to pick up skateboarding far easier than we did.
Nov 23 2010 4:03PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Todd: Hey, Jimmy! How's you boy Mark holdin' up?
Jim: Well, it's kind of embarrassing...
Todd: We're all friends here, Jimbo! What's the problem?
Jim: Well...shiiit... I don't know how to say this straight.
Todd: ...Is it something bad? I'm right here for you, Jim.
Jim: I..I...... MARCUS CAN'T DO A KICKFLIP!!!
Todd: ..huh?
Jim: I've tried and tried, taught him the technique, but... he just CAN'T GET IT DOWN!
Todd: Umm...well, I'm sorry to hear that. You know ma boy Andy already got a Fs 360 Heel Big Spin down, and he's only half of Mark's age.
Jim: Thank you, TODD, rub it in. I always dreamed that my kid would be the next Thrasher SOTY, but that's starting to become more like a bullshit fairy tale every passing minute.
Todd: If it's anything to ya...Well I don't know..
Jim: What is it? *sob*
Todd: Well, how about this? When ma boy Andy is ready for that X-Games 120ft Gap Challenge, how bout you bring your Marcus down on over and we'll have him hold up the rail Andy will land on!
Jim: ...*sniff* You...You'd really do that for u..I mean for him?
Todd: You bet your balls, Jimbo. Your son's gonna be on national live TV!
Jim: ...he....HE...HELL YEAH! I.. AM... BEYOND STOKED!!!



Nov 23 2010 5:06PM
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Slettalaen
Posts: 366 - Karma: 120
i think that mad creativity and crowd pleasing should be a important factor in contest skiing... i mean it's cool with doubles, but i don't think it's so entertaining when almost everyone do the same. but i give big props to bene mayrs double 10, cuz that shit i dope and stylish as fuck!
Nov 23 2010 6:03PM
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LIL_WAT
Posts: 1900 - Karma: 475

Bro, re read what he said. You seem to think that Jacob is purely shitting on the current comp format/organisers/judging. That's not the case- he is SUGGESTING an even BETTER idea. He isays he enjoys the current comps but would like to see a new format.

Suggesting an improvement =/= being obliged to hold a contest yourself.

Nov 23 2010 6:29PM
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Colston
Posts: 168 - Karma: 113
I agree. I feel bad for the spectators of city big airs because they pay only to see one trick all night. I remember when WSI brought this "street league" style judging but with elimination to big air years ago, would be sick to see something like that again.
Nov 23 2010 6:46PM
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Jnossiff
Posts: 1081 - Karma: 135
jacob youre brilliant
Nov 23 2010 7:27PM
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Bonzalo
Posts: 2593 - Karma: 1,812

"speak with your actions, or shut your mouth, do a spinny flippy and collect your check."

And what have you done so far for the ski industry?, he is trying to innovate, let him speak.

Nov 23 2010 8:00PM
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JustDidIt
Posts: 2194 - Karma: 160
Well written article, I agree completely
Nov 23 2010 9:52PM
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casual
Posts: 6712 - Karma: 6,746
Write a bunch of articles, conduct interviews, review gear, promote edits/movements in skiing that I think are worthwhile, review a bunch of ski flicks, attend events and take photos and write-ups, and generally try and pass on my enthusiasm about skiing to others. Not that I'm a big deal or something, but since you asked... check my signature.

How bout you? Besides ask sarcastic rhetorical questions, I mean.
Nov 23 2010 10:02PM
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darco
Posts: 845 - Karma: 336
totally irrelevant, but called it that you werent leaving this site for good.
Nov 23 2010 10:10PM
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mrmarks
Posts: 393 - Karma: 143
competitions breed conformity; that is unavoidable.  there is a standard that needs to be met to WIN, and a large number of people will try to meet that standard because they want to win... next thing you know, a bunch of people are the SAME.

The STYLEish expressions that everyone yearns to see more of is more akin to ART than it is to a competitive sport.  you don't see many art competitions, do you?

point is, true style will never lend itself to a competitive format FOR THE MASSES.  a very small handful of individuals may grace the competitive scene with their art from time to time, but...
Nov 23 2010 10:23PM
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Bonzalo
Posts: 2593 - Karma: 1,812
Nothing, I´ve done nothing so far, but I´m not pushing the sport backwards neither. Whats your problem with innovating dude.
Nov 23 2010 10:31PM
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Ducky.
Posts: 5811 - Karma: 1,420
Nice read Jacob. I totally agree
Nov 23 2010 10:37PM
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BroBomb
Posts: 500 - Karma: 1,726
Jacob, I like that you're at least paying attention to the dissatisfaction of "ski fans" with the current setup.

However, I've always kinda wondered this whenever a "progressive" concept for a new competition format arrives-- whether or not we're entirely missing the purpose that competitions serve, in general. I mean, there's the obvious idea that it's some way to sort out who is "the best" at something, but it doesn't really serve that purpose all too well in a subjectively judged sport like skiing. I mean, there's no football without football games, even in the backyard really. But there's still skiing without competitions, plenty of it.
So all of that is just to say that it seems like competitions (in action sports generally) are really for the sponsors and spectators (who the sponsors want to advertise to). Many of you probably know better than I do, but how many people who attend these downtown competitions, or any big event, are actual skiers who are involved with this lifestyle/sport or whatever you want to call it? My impression is that the people who show up more or less want to see a stunt show and then go home...kind of like the Red Bull Flugtag on skis and snowboards. Therefore, they wouldn't care if your tricks are diverse, stylish, or any of that. They just want to see somebody do some acrobatics while flying through the air over some scaffolding. But full disclosure-- I've never attended a downtown jump comp, so I really don't know.

So aaaanyway, I like the idea of a more diverse format, I hope you get some people to cosign the idea and market it well. It certainly sounds like something I'd actually watch as opposed to any currently existing jump comps.
Nov 23 2010 11:20PM
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Jenser
Posts: 375 - Karma: 16
Competitions = Technicality

Movie segments (/edits) = Style

Promote yourself through style and prove your technicality by consistently stomping the most technical, progressive tricks at the crucial times as you need to.


Nov 24 2010 12:49AM
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COskier
Posts: 1066 - Karma: 131
Great essay Jacob-

One thing I will add. Perhaps skiing just needs to get away from big air in general and be focused on long slopestyle courses. I realize that big air is a good spectator sport, and that is what drives the money and therefore the sport, but a slope comp with sixish jumps like euro x is one of the ultimate park competitions. Maybe big air city comps should be more along the lines of exhibitions with the real competition taking place on the longer courses. Hell, this may be a terrible idea but you could even combine pipe and slope into one run if you could find a way to do it without the transition being too cumbersome.
Nov 24 2010 1:26AM
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jason...
Posts: 9006 - Karma: 780
skateboarding gets it and is constantly evolving to keep things interesting, time for skiers to step up.
Nov 24 2010 1:49AM
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bighit
Posts: 1178 - Karma: 33
Jakob, your original article is easily the best written article I have read about freestyle skiing since I have been on this site (2003).
Nov 24 2010 5:26AM
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MaryO
Posts: 2583 - Karma: 5,996

Have you all had a chance to read this yet? Jon Olsson's JOSS taking a year break, new format for JOI event. Sounds really good to me.

http://www.jon-olsson.com/?p=3414

Nov 24 2010 9:45AM
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KapitolPhoto
Posts: 1392 - Karma: 3,025
This threads restores my hope in the NS community that its still a possibility to have a conversation, albeit a few heated comments here & there, rather than a flame war over "your" vs "you're."

Jacob, really good read.
Nov 24 2010 9:59AM
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EMK
Posts: 1632 - Karma: 669
I like Jons idea just for being something new, I think i would have prefered a street leauge style format though. I think with that format it not only makes the action more exciting tactical and tense but results in a better variation of tricks being thrown. And as a result it makes for a competition more like a traditional sport that anyone can appreciate while giving the hardcore skier viewer a more exciting and varied show.

Jons format will work well for the sport aspect, hopefully, and since it is the JOI I am sure there will be plenty of varied and new tricks on display, but if it were to have been that format at a city comp I don't think the action would have been any more exciting to me.
Nov 24 2010 10:01AM
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msndotwav
Posts: 807 - Karma: 4,473
If you saw below the comment post, you saw it was posted by Jon. It says; "Jon said" and his name is clickable, and takes you to jons homepage. So i am sorry, but its not a troll
Nov 24 2010 2:45PM
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Billups
Posts: 3960 - Karma: 329
Anyone could have put his web address in.
Nov 24 2010 2:54PM
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d-rok
Posts: 594 - Karma: 113
ok everybody i will tell you what the problem is, it's the skiers. your suggested format seems to impose so many regulations and limitations that im wondering whats the free in freeskiing means. skiing has that problem that when a new trick comes around evrybody and there grandmother learns that trick, that trik can be cool look good, but after seeing everybody do it so many times you begin to hate that trick (that's my case at least) and not be impressed by it. I understand that for winning a comp you need the hardest trick
but my question to pro skiers is: why do you all need to learn the same tricks? i thought the goal of freeskiing was to be creative and do your own thing, right now it's, lets all do the same trick and anybody can win

and jacob you should stop comps for a bit and then learn some new banger tricks, than take home all the  money, pretty simple
Nov 24 2010 4:03PM
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