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TSA and the Government is out of control!

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PowSkierCO
Posts: 760 - Karma: 11
Our government is a joke. Read the story below....

DENVER -- A California man who refused a body scan and pat-down search at a San Diego airport has become an Internet sensation in the debate weighing fliers' security versus their privacy.

John Tyner posted a cell phone audio recording of his half-hour encounter Saturday at Lindbergh Field.

The software engineer couldn't board a flight after he refused a full-body scan that reveals an image of what's under his clothes. He also wouldn't allow a Transportation Security Administration worker to conduct a groin check. Tyner tells the worker, "If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested."




Tyner recorded audio of the whole 30-minute incident with the TSA on his cell phone's video camera.

According to the recording, a female supervisor explained the groin check and told Tyner, "If you're not comfortable with that, we can escort you back out and you don't have to fly today."

"OK, I don't understand how a sexual assault can be made a condition of my flying," said Tyner.

"This is not considered a sexual assault," replied the female supervisor.

"It would be if you were not the government," Tyner said. He then added, "I'd like only my wife and maybe my doctor to touch me there."

Tyner's blog says he left the airport -- but only after being threatened with a lawsuit and $10,000 fine for leaving the security area without finishing the screening process.

A man with no connection to Tyner, Brian Sodegren, started a website that suggests that the public purposely request pat-downs the day before Thanksgiving -- a move likely to clog security checkpoints on the busy travel day.

"It's the day ordinary citizens stand up for their rights, stand up for liberty, and protest the federal government's desire to virtually strip us naked or submit to an 'enhanced patdown' that touches people's breasts and genitals in an aggressive manner," his "Opt Out Day" website proclaims.

"We do not believe the government has a right to see you naked or aggressively touch you just because you bought an airline ticket," Sodegren said.

Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano and TSA Administrator John Pistole defended the new practices on Monday, saying such moves are necessary to protect the flying public.
Nov 15 2010 7:16PM
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dbstar
Posts: 2038 - Karma: 20
who cares... the people that look at the scans will be seeing those images all day, they won't care about what you look like naked... It really doesn't bother me, especially if it has the potential to save lives down the road.

However, it might not be appropriate for pilots due to all the radiation they'd be exposed to in going through this thing all the time, and that they are trusted in the first place.
Nov 16 2010 12:03PM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
hahaha dude stop being so dramatic and turning this into yet another ideological argument. theyre either patting you down or seeing a weird picture of you (without a face) to make sure you arent carrying bombs onto the plane, not "taking away your liberties"


now when we start having to get visas to travel between states or some shit i'll agree with you guys but for now youre just acting like a bunch of insecure junior high kids nervous about someone seeing your dick and turning it into this big discourse about the terrorists winning and a police state
Nov 16 2010 1:01PM
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PowSkierCO
Posts: 760 - Karma: 11
YOu sir are why the government gets away with this.....
Nov 16 2010 1:33PM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
gets away with what? see my last post, this isnt a "liberty" being taken away, it's a reasonable security measure. if it bothers you so much youre either a crazy ideologue or you cant stand the idea of some TSA fuck seeing your dick. big fucking deal
Nov 16 2010 1:42PM
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factory81
Posts: 3967 - Karma: 63
It's just about drawing a line in the sand and saying tihs is over the line.

These new security measures are over stepping their boundaries in my opinion. Grope or nude-scan? Which one is it? Both are pretty shitty options.

Anyone ever think that blowing the aircraft up is no longer the goal of a terrorist probably now? They will kill more people if they just wear a bomb to the airport security line and detonate the bomb in the line......why get in an airplane - there are 380 people standing around trying to get through security.


Finally this leads to the pre-security security colonoscopy........
don't ask me how.
Nov 16 2010 1:57PM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
just curious.. to play a sport at school i had to get a physical, which included some lady touching my balls etc and i dont see anyone protesting that. now what's so much more illogical about having to have some third party touch/see your dick to ensure you arent bringing a bomb onto a plane?
Nov 16 2010 2:02PM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
have any of you even passed through airport security in the last 10 years?

I've done it I think 8 times in the last 2 months. Not once have i been "groped." And I've gone through metal detectors, pat downs, everything. And those infamous body scanners are rare to find so far.

This is like the high school freshman being afraid to change for gym because someone might just seem him in his boxers.

They don't grab or grope you. The guy barely runs his hands over your arms, legs (to lower thigh) back, and front. That's IT.
Nov 16 2010 2:03PM
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564
What I think it is is that those scanners can literally see through your body... so what need is there AFTER that to start groping someone?
Nov 16 2010 2:10PM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
it's one or the other. i did it the other day, if you opt out of the dick camera they pat you down. hope my dick looked nice and big for that TSA lady..
Nov 16 2010 2:12PM
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factory81
Posts: 3967 - Karma: 63
doctor vs. people who make $12 an hour in a job that is by no means a career choice no one aspires to find themselves in.

world of a difference between the two.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-safety-security/1147996-sexual-assault-tso-day.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-safety-security/1148491-another-one-making-rounds-tsa-gropes-3-year-old.html



There is also nothing to stop someone from swallowing a bomb and taking it on the plane and then just detonating it inside of themselves.


Nov 16 2010 2:13PM
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factory81
Posts: 3967 - Karma: 63
This winter I will get a chance to go through them at SLC/GRR

I will opt out of the scan. I don't need any more radiation than I already get. I just find this to be an invasion of privacy. They could just have 3 dogs at all check points. Bomb dog, drug dog, and attack dog.

These machines still can't see behind your balls, combined with how much someone could swallow/stick between their asshole and their balls........where will they stop taking our rights?

Nov 16 2010 2:16PM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
so because one guy did that we should all be opposed to these scans? theyre still faceless! i mean come on

and what do you mean there's nothing stopping someone from swallowing a bomb and blowing it up on the place? you go through a metal detector, and then the dick camera looks through you basically. and why would you bring up safety like that? wouldnt that argue, in my favor, that we SHOULD have safety measures like this?

whatever. i just dont see what the big deal is about some TSA guy/girl seeing a low res image of my faceless, naked body. i dont relate it to government and private rights in the slightest
Nov 16 2010 2:17PM
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Dan.
Posts: 7201 - Karma: 1,126
have any of you been through security at an airport in a different country? when I was flying from prague to london, I didn't even go through a metal detector, or take my shoes off. in mexico, they couldn't give a fuck about nail clippers or shampoo. the "safety measures" here are a joke. that being said, I don't care at all if I get scanned, it makes getting through security that much faster. if you are one of those that want to decline the scan and get a pat-down or strip search instead though, please go commando and see what happens, I am curious.
Nov 16 2010 2:25PM
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factory81
Posts: 3967 - Karma: 63
1. Victims of rape/molestation are having a fit about being required to go through these procedures (it makes sense for them to complain, they are not obligated to travel by air though)

2. LGBT = that community of people who get sex changes and shit......theres been some question how they will get handled, because they can have different looking bodies, how do they get treated when they opt out and want a pat down?

3. Children and sensitivity training with children. supposedly parents are throwing a fit because they try and teach their kids some of these body parts are "no touch" areas and they don't want their kids being confused by a line of people getting groped in all kinds of crevices.

4. unprofessionalism in the TSA - wait for wikileaks of nude photos, and when even more inevitable stories of bad apples in the TSA making the whole TSA look like a bunch of perverted 20 something year old guys.

5. amateur hand held radio operators have supposedly tuned in to conversations of TSA officials (they operate on public frequencies) and found them to be talking bout how hot people were and shit




All this stuff is for theater. Intimidation - just requiring terrorists to go one step further. Instead of being able to tape things to your body you have to stuff them inside your body cavity.

This is for show and a waste of tax payer dollars if you ask me. The terrorists do win when they touch your balls.


Does yemen have these kinds of procedures in place? Does west africa? do all the foreign countries that fly in to america follow the same procedures? not a fucking chance. yet we all have to sacrifice our personal liberties to go to mammoth and salt lake city.

once again. why do terrorists even want to target planes so much? you could probably find more sitting dicks in a security line than you could on a trans-ocean flight......
Nov 16 2010 2:27PM
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Coop8o2
Posts: 80 - Karma: 23
Flying is a privilege not a right. End of story. If you don't like the rules, take a bus, ride a train, jump on a boat, drive a car or walk. You can grab my balls if I know I'm getting to miami from JFK without blowing up or being held hostage for 4 days by some wack job.
Nov 16 2010 2:29PM
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Dan.
Posts: 7201 - Karma: 1,126
they don't want to target planes any more. we are always one step behind. they exploit something that we think is invulnerable, then move on to the next one while we run around trying to patch something up. notice that once the "trained" terrorists strike in a certain way, a bunch of untrained idiot terrorists start going for that method while the smart ones are plotting for something nobody here can foresee.
Nov 16 2010 2:30PM
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vandersteeze
Posts: 2650 - Karma: 1,511
Fuck off
Nov 16 2010 2:32PM
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PowSkierCO
Posts: 760 - Karma: 11
Actually I don't use commercial planes when I fly. So it's whatever to me..But I would not like some dude grabbing my manhood to see if I was hiding something. This is just out of control and against the law. There is no need for someone to see my dick. Hey. maybe you are gay? Does it turn you on?
Nov 16 2010 2:33PM
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Dan.
Posts: 7201 - Karma: 1,126
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/11/the-things-he-carried/7057/
Nov 16 2010 2:34PM
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factory81
Posts: 3967 - Karma: 63
financially when they mess with air travel it can cripple parts of our economy and impact everyones lives in a big way.

but i think you are right. we have seen a bunch of idiot attempts at terrorists. we couldn't stop a real terrorists if we tried.

i still will feel less safe in the security line than I will in the plane.

Someone could walk up to the line with a whole bag of bombs and fucking it would be over. Imagine that shit......

I personally will feel more safe if like I said I saw more canine units on the ground actively sniffing any and everything going through the airport.

They will pursue a target vs. a machine that people have to crowd around.
Nov 16 2010 2:35PM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
look at a list of aircraft hijackings. Wikipedia happens to have a good one. Look at the numbers per decade, and the locations.

I'll help you out a bit. You should be able to spot a pattern regarding hijackings since the late 1970s, when airport security started to consist of more than the pilot asking if anyone on board had a bomb today.

However, in recent times, there have been multiple in...western africa...and also mexico, but that was more of a classic hijacking. (guy goes on board, claims to have bomb, plane gets diverted, negotiations etc etc, bomber turns out to have nothing and either gets shot or arrested.)

...you also learn that apparently the French and Germans do not fuck around if you hijack their planes or even land in their countries. (true today too, you wander around the airport in paris, and you'll see small teams of soldiers patrolling with assault rifles)

and we don't know that they want to target planes, but fact is that they have in the past, and a plane is unique in that they can blow it up, crash it into something, divert it, and various other things. You hijack a train you're pretty limited in what you can do.


I've said it multiple times, i don't agree with the TSA, because its run by complete morons, and I think something needs to be done so they are actually effective and not just high school drop outs.
Nov 16 2010 2:43PM
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factory81
Posts: 3967 - Karma: 63
for sure

people need to realize those who oppose these body scans are not against security. we want to fly just like everyone in a safe environment.

there are just disagreements as to how to achieve safe air travel.


Nov 16 2010 2:58PM
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geteducated
Posts: 6410 - Karma: 86
well im gonna tell them that i'm muslim and that i want my pat down in private (it seems everyone is making concessions for peoples religion now a days, so why can't i exploit that?), and i also want their supervisor to be present (to throw a wrench in their process). and im also going to start moaning when they get near my junk. (make them uncomfortable)

you may not be able to beat it, but you can be disobedient about it.

Nov 16 2010 3:39PM
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Static
Posts: 8494 - Karma: 4,068
haha, you little bitch
Nov 16 2010 4:00PM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
sounds like how a child would deal with the situation. i'm all for sticking up for your rights but this is ridiculous, it's a conservative pat down and a quick faceless picture, get over it.

the only part ill concede is what factory said about LGBT and molestation victims. they can get a form or some shit, i dont care, but that's 0.0000001% of the population. the rest of us can deal with it
Nov 16 2010 4:10PM
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564


I say we all do this.
Nov 16 2010 4:13PM
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Mr.LemonPie
Posts: 4100 - Karma: 1,625
isn't being groped and having people look at you naked a good thing...why is everyone so worried about people doing their jobs. Who gives a shit.
Nov 16 2010 4:39PM
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geteducated
Posts: 6410 - Karma: 86
no its not a conservative pat down. they touch your junk. maybe you don't know what conservative means or maybe you're ignorant on the matter. maybe you should leave this discussion. and faceless picture isn't the point, no one knows the effects these machines have on your body. they are not like an x-ray where the x-rays pass through your body. they only penetrate clothing and zap the skin.
Nov 16 2010 5:12PM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
haha that must be it. that or youre a huge pussy who wants to turn this into a political discussion when really you just cant handle someone getting near you or seeing you naked

seriously this is like kids in high school not wanting to change in the locker room. sack up
Nov 16 2010 5:17PM
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geteducated
Posts: 6410 - Karma: 86
you're a shitty citizen. you know that right? the government depends on people like you.

and again, your assumptions and your ability to only see this matter in black and white shows your ignorance.


Nov 16 2010 5:25PM
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PurpleDino
Posts: 1513 - Karma: 483
I'm starting to give up on trying to fight the people that only see government as a good thing.  The government has brainwashed so many people it's hard to get them to realize how bad certain parts of a government really are.
Nov 16 2010 5:27PM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
hahaha im a shitty citizen cause i dont lose my shit over dumb things like some idiot seeing my dick. have you ever been in a locker room before?


like i said, when the government starts forcing us to get visas to travel state to state or some shit, i'll be up in arms. there's a big difference between a reasonable safety protocol and restricting your liberties.

i dont see this in black and white. ive kept posting because im curious to hear both sides of the story and see if i can be convinced that it's really a big deal. im the last person to mindlessly get taken advantage of but this simply isnt an issue in my mind

really, the fact that you guys are up in arms about this shows more "black and white" viewing on your part than mine. only with a feeble link to your already obvious ideology can i begin to understand why you guys consider some dude tapping your balls (at the WORST) or seeing a faceless picture of your dick worth even discussing. dont make EVERYTHING a political shitstorm, people like you polarize EVERYTHING and that's the last fucking thing we need
Nov 16 2010 5:30PM
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wasatch_rat
Posts: 1771 - Karma: 2,937
you have a right to your opinion. but your being annoying as fuck and calling those who disagree with you pussies, instead of keeping it civil. this is a political discussion that you are turning into a shitstorm of immature insults. the issue is whether its ok to restrict certain liberties for extra safety. oh and by the way, a government official being able to see you naked or touch your genitals when you don't want them to is the definition of restricting a liberty, the liberty of keeping the privacy of your own body.

i have gone through the full bods scan. i don't care too much if one more person has seen me naked. but its the idea of the government having the right to do that just because i bought a plane ticket that its wrong to me. its not worth my time to protest it, but it does piss me off, so kudos to the people who actually do.

Nov 16 2010 5:35PM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
ha once again, I'm forced to ask when the last time you went through security was.


they touch your junk. You make it sound like the guy got down on his knees and was carefully inspecting your sack.

and I'll just go ahead and reiterate that the last 8 times I've been pat down (in 3 different countries also) I've never been groped or anything of the sort. At worst a hand would quickly pass over my waistline around belt level.
Nov 16 2010 5:36PM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
see that's the point. in my most professional, respectful opinion, i dont think this has much to do with politics but you guys make it so. it's such a little deal that i honestly cant think of any other way to describe the fear of it than "pussy."

like i said, i understand the private rights argument and the moment we're talking about a private rights issue that actually makes ONE BIT OF DIFFERENCE i'll be right with you. but turning this BS into a political shitstorm is just dumb and like i said just further polarizes one more thing that doesnt need to be. pick your battles, christ
Nov 16 2010 5:38PM
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Static
Posts: 8494 - Karma: 4,068
it's not just some idiot seeing your dick in the locker room. It's a forceful invasion of privacy. You may be happier than a clam for someone other than your mommy to see your weenie. But I'm not really ok with some shit bag TSA agent looking at my wife, mother, son or daughter, or even placing their hands on them. Or myself for that matter. "well then don't fly! if you want to enjoy the marvels of science and technology you better be ready to suck some dick if they ask!"

You say you'll be up in arms when you can't travel across state lines or whatever, but don't worry by that point you'll be so indoctrinated to following the herd that you'll just accept it and move the goal posts "I'll be up in arms when they need to do a prostate exam before I can buy grapes!"
Nov 16 2010 5:39PM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
where on earth did i or anyone say they only see the government as a good thing??

making assumptions and, as i said, further polarizing this bullshit is the last thing you should be doing if youre going to expect people to listen to this whiny shit.

"oh he disagrees that it's a big fucking deal that some guy's hand was within a foot of my dick (and/or took a picture that will be erased), he must be a mindless sheep that loves the government!" great logic

for the millionth time, as soon as you guys are bitching and moaning about a governmental thing that actually MATTERS, i will be right with you. for now youre just being whiny, polarized partisan hoo-rahers getting all excited about something minor and whitewashing anyone who isnt acting like a nervous kid in the locker room as "the problem with our country" and "a sheep for the government." give me a break..
Nov 16 2010 5:42PM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
haha great analogies. very realistic and grounded in logic.

if you think that being okay with this makes me any more likely to be a "sheep" for the government that's indoctrinated enough to give up rights, youre crazy. the only correlation here is how angry you are about this procedure to how many stupid chainmail political emails you read per month
Nov 16 2010 5:47PM
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Snowcase
Posts: 11456 - Karma: 634
End of thread.
Nov 16 2010 5:51PM
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Static
Posts: 8494 - Karma: 4,068
I learned it from you, dad
Nov 16 2010 5:52PM
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geteducated
Posts: 6410 - Karma: 86
its not about people seeing my dick. ill put my dick on your forehead. (must be your black and white vision) i don't know why you keep coming back to that issue. you really think the people that don't agree with the tsa doing this is because they are self conscious about their body? some are, most see that its bigger than that. this isn't even a partisan issue.

hmmm lets see, am i angry because people will see my junk or is it because the government is so uncreative with dealing with security threats, that it doesn't value the dignity and liberty of its citizens bodies (which they supposedly are supposed to serve) more than trying to stop a terrorist.

my god you're a simple minded fuck. learn to think critically.

and i don't care what you say anymore. you lost credibility at 'conservative pat-down' which tells me you never looked into how the process actually works. which concerns me because it means you have adjusted to these new measures without thinking about it for more than 5 minutes. any opinion you have on this matter is invalid due to your lack of knowledge on the matter.
Nov 16 2010 6:03PM
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StevenR
Posts: 1372 - Karma: 33
No. A forceful invasion of privacy would be if the second you walked through the door they pinned you to the wall and ripped your cloths of violently for everyone to see. Thats not what this is. If you should choose to fly, in some places you will be asked to stand in a scanner for a second while a fuzzy picture is shown discretely on a screen to a single TSA agent for a few seconds, and your on your way. There is no force involved here. And despite your request, I am going to use the "if you dont like it then dont fly" argument, because its a sound one. Nobody is forcing anything on you.
Nov 16 2010 6:04PM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
look into how the process works? ive gone through this process many many times which is part of the reason i think you guys are crazy for actually being up in arms about this.

if learning to "think critically" means thoughtlessly getting involved in a scare like a fish in a school then i guess i'll refrain.

anyway, keep getting all pissed off about inconsequential things and feebly linking them to your ideologies, see if i give a shit


also, have you even gone through one of these or are you purely taking some idiot's word for it?
Nov 16 2010 6:07PM
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Static
Posts: 8494 - Karma: 4,068
forceful isn't necessarily physical. if you wish to fly you are forced to either have a naked photo taken or get frisked. I choose to fly, it saves time and is magical. Can I fly without going through the security procedures or am I forced to comply?
Nov 16 2010 6:14PM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
if you want to get on the airlines' extraordinarily expensive plane, yes.
Nov 16 2010 6:21PM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
let's put this into perspective.

if you want to pay money to fly on a huge, expensive, dangerous plane with many other people whose lives need to be safeguarded against at least a due amount, then you must either get patted down (in which a hand MIGHT come near your groin and probably won't even touch your shit) or you can have a faceless, low res, monochromatic image taken of your body, which is seen by some dude or girl you'll never meet, and then it is erased. yes, that is the deal.

oh the injustice! THE SKY IS FALLING

come on. find something else to get all pissed off about
Nov 16 2010 6:33PM
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Static
Posts: 8494 - Karma: 4,068
I'm pissed off about a lot of stuff!
Nov 16 2010 6:46PM
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soulskier
Posts: 17805 - Karma: 3,821
finally....i've been having a bit of a dry spell
Nov 16 2010 6:49PM
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eljusto.
Posts: 2163 - Karma: 457
People need to forget about 911, the security is now bullshit. Sure it was a tragedy, but seriously it's time to move on people.
Nov 16 2010 6:50PM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
congratulations, I think you may have just made a statement that both sides of this argument will be able to agree on as being one of the dumbest things said in this thread.
Nov 16 2010 6:54PM
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