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Ace of Spades v. Full Tilt

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sheyon
Posts: 7 - Karma: 10

Looking at Nordica Ace of Spades vs. Full Tilt Seths.  I know its Nordica but are they making a legit 3 piece boot?  Yes, the last is wider on the Nordica so its more wide foot friendly, but anyone have some solid facts/opinions on which way to lean? 

Nov 11 2010 10:09AM
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snomaster
Posts: 3336 - Karma: 5,677
Ace has replaceable vibram soles. That's a must-have for my boot choices these days.
Nov 11 2010 10:13AM
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nutsnbolts
Posts: 1110 - Karma: 16
I havent wore either of them, but i hear alot of people are getting the Ace of Spades these days and are pretty happy with them.
Nov 11 2010 12:03PM
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Banane.
Posts: 3102 - Karma: 414
Ace of spade if want a more all mountain boot maybe dalbello kryton pro, both fit the same. Plus the ace of spade have a pants holder !!!
Nov 11 2010 12:28PM
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Klick_2_klaim
Posts: 3396 - Karma: 25
ace of spades is slightly wider, 100mm vs 98 in the seth at the forefoot. But wider in the heel, and the progressive flex feels much much stiffer even at the bottom end of the flex. No intuition liner, but thats ok. pant holder dealy and the buckle system doesn't require that you check the screws every time you ski, and readjust at the top of every chair. better wider power strap. vibram soles and shock absorbtion, with a big toe gelly thingy that probably doesn't do anything. lol

full tilts are great because you can do so much work to them and really get that fit good if you have a slightly wider heel, or even forefoot. I just got a pair of ace of spades, and have had full tilts in the past (konflicts from the first season) go get fitted and find out what works for your foot.

 ps... kryptons are 98mm i believe.
Nov 11 2010 12:36PM
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sheyon
Posts: 7 - Karma: 10

Anyone opting for the dead money's over the ace of spades?  From what I understand the progressive flex rating is 100-120 on the d.m.'s and 110-130 on the a.o.s.'s.  Are the d.m.'s more park friendly yet still able to rip b/c lines? Or should I stick with the big boy's?  Probably not even enough to notice a difference...

Nov 11 2010 1:27PM
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a_pla5tic_bag
Posts: 9210 - Karma: 5,357
although i think you will notice the difference in the price of the boots haha. the ace of spades are really expensive I think the dead money's are less.
Nov 11 2010 1:32PM
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seanzy96
Posts: 156 - Karma: 10
the price difference between the dead money and ace of spades is $100. in canada the dead's are $499 and the ace $599. both are super comfy and ready to shred everything. the ace is a bit stiffer though. just bought the ace and am stoked to tear them up. probably the most comfortable boot out of the box i have ever put on. crazyness
Nov 11 2010 3:28PM
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sheyon
Posts: 7 - Karma: 10
True story on the price. 
Nov 11 2010 3:34PM
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seanzy96
Posts: 156 - Karma: 10
what size are you looking at anyway?
Nov 11 2010 3:52PM
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mattridesskis
Posts: 635 - Karma: 16
i bought the aces last season and they were fuckin awesome.
i broke one of the buckles though :( (shit happens)
Nov 11 2010 4:01PM
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sheyon
Posts: 7 - Karma: 10
29.5
Nov 11 2010 5:14PM
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LivinOuttaBounZ
Posts: 949 - Karma: 382

Ace of Spades = 101mm last  and progressive flex 100-130

Dalbello Krypton Pro = 98mm last and adjustable constant flex 100-120 depending on set up and tongue.

Different fit in my book.

Nov 11 2010 8:41PM
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LivinOuttaBounZ
Posts: 949 - Karma: 382
AOS=100mm last, my mistake. Still a big difference when it comes to fit.
Nov 11 2010 8:49PM
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selkirks
Posts: 1978 - Karma: 59
Huge difference in fit means...

BOOTFITTER
BOOTFITTER
BOOTFITTER.
Nov 11 2010 8:51PM
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austinmetsch
Posts: 525 - Karma: 17
i have put on both fulltilts, both new and old shell, and i own aces. the aces feel much more like a legitimate ski boot where as the fulltilt has little support and felt flimsy. the ace's liner is much much nicer in my opinion. the intuition liners are nice but they have zero heel hold and no footbed which just feels weird. the ace liner has a nice rubbery honeycomb pad on the toe for those back seat landing. it really helps with toebang. the pants holder is nice in parking lots and on dirt. the three buckle system works similarly to the cables of the fulltilt. both have three and the middle buckle is really nice. the ace is slightly wider at a 101mm last whereas fulltilt is a 98mm. the vibram sole of the ace is extremely nice to have when walking in parking lots and on any type of sketchy terrain like wet wood or concrete and it really help on ice when hiking. these soles are replaceable if they get worn and the fulltilt's sole is not replaceable at all except the very end of the heel. the massive power strap of the aces really helps get them cranked down but i just put a booster strap on them which can also be done on the fulltilts. the padding in the ace is really nice too. the whole bootboard under the liner is made out of FSE which is eraser material, along with the back top of the liner and part of the insole. to me the ace just feels like an all around more legit boot. the fit is what's most important though so go to a bootfitter and try them on.

to the people wondering about the difference between the ace and the deadmoney:
the ace has the vibram sole-deadmoney does not
ace is 100-130 flex--deadmoney is 90-120
other than that they are very similar.

i hope this helps but still go to a bootfitter
Nov 11 2010 9:01PM
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LivinOuttaBounZ
Posts: 949 - Karma: 382

Intuition Liners have amazing heel hold. One you have to heat them (but not for much longer, stay tuned for next years) and two, heel hold is a partnership between hard heel (shell) and soft heel (liner) cups. A Ultralon foam liner (Intuition) will mold better to your foot shape then any other liner on the market.

If you have lift in an intuition then come see me, or any other bootfitter who knows what theyre doing. That should be an easy fix if youre in the right boot.

Nov 11 2010 9:33PM
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LivinOuttaBounZ
Posts: 949 - Karma: 382
Oh, and no boot comes with a legit footbed. If a bootfitter tells you that the OEM footbed is good enough that would be a good time to find another bootfitter.
Nov 11 2010 9:37PM
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Chompo.
Posts: 4952 - Karma: 88
this. always get custom foot beds.
Nov 11 2010 9:51PM
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T.DUDE
Posts: 1681 - Karma: 129
imo the best boot is ,, THE ONE THAT FITS YOU!
Nov 11 2010 10:43PM
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LivinOuttaBounZ
Posts: 949 - Karma: 382
Exactly.
Nov 11 2010 11:17PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
it always comes down to what boot fits you better, but if I had to ignore the fit and just discuss boot mechanics, the FT wins hands down. The FT design actually allows the boot to flex naturally and consistently through its entire range of motion. A 'progressive' flex in a 3-piece design just means that the boot doesn't flex properly from start to finish. The Nordica tongue doesn't do anything except look like a 3-piece boot- it's just a marketing story so why not buy a normal 4-buckle overlap??

Mechanically it does nothing different than an overlap boot, but back to fit, if it fits better then it's the better boot for you.
Nov 12 2010 12:58AM
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Ducky.
Posts: 5811 - Karma: 1,420
I think you should go with the bootfitter
Nov 12 2010 1:03AM
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LivinOuttaBounZ
Posts: 949 - Karma: 382
Mechanically the AOS is a three piece. But the tongue isn't the only flex contributor. There is no overlap in the boot. The hinges are higher then other Raichle flexon style boots. But a higher pivot sets the heel back in the shells heel pocket more. So even though this may not flex as comfortably as a FT or Krypton, it has an advantage for feet that have a higher volume forefoot, and a lower volume calcaneus and ankle. Plus, the 100mm last will allow the foot to articulate more in the boot, while still holding it firmly in place because of the heel pocket, ankle buckle, and properly fit foot bed. This is better for balence when jibbing because you don't want every movement transfered to the ski edges. Try this, next time you can, put on 2 pairs of socks, over tighten your boots, and try and stand on one foot. A foot needs to be able to flex and pronate enough to keep balence. 
Nov 12 2010 1:17AM
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LivinOuttaBounZ
Posts: 949 - Karma: 382

They're different. They share the same last, mold, and buckles, but there are some difference other then just flexability. Bootfit will matter on alot of things that cant be answered without looking at your foot width, heel width, arch height, instep height, ankle pronunciation, current footbed, calf height and shape, whether or not you pronate or supinate, toe length, foot canting, what kind of skier you are and want to be, and the list goes on. I'd go see a bootfitter on a day that they're not busy. Ask questions, and have him/her measure you up. If you get the idea that you know more or as much as he/she does, then go find another bootfitter. You can email the kind folks at Masterfit University and they will recomend one in your area as well.

Lots of kids rip without much of this kind of service. But the best stay there because a proper fit truly ups your game. Bootfitting is my passion, I quit a good paying career to live poor and happy. I'm not a great skier, and never will be, so this was my entrance to the ski industry and I fell in love with it. 

Nov 12 2010 1:34AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
I couldn't agree more. This is precisely what the Atomic Hawx boot allows- better balance through forefoot flexion. Now, like I said, it always comes back to fit but purely looking at the boot from a mechanical standpoint I think the AOS is inferior to the FT. From a fit standpoint (which I think you were discussing more), one could easily be better with one or the other for sure. I just have a bone to pick with Nordica because I think they churn out marketing ideas, not innovative ideas. Especially in race and freeski.
Nov 12 2010 7:22AM
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LivinOuttaBounZ
Posts: 949 - Karma: 382
Agreed. 100%
Nov 12 2010 12:24PM
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Klick_2_klaim
Posts: 3396 - Karma: 25
ok mister bootfitter guy, how come intuition says that you don't need a foot bed in thier liners? full tilts don't, or didn't come with footbeds, and the reps and people I've spoken to or emailed said they arent necessary. Are we being bamboozled into $250 cork superfeet molds when we don't actually need them?
Nov 12 2010 12:55PM
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seanzy96
Posts: 156 - Karma: 10
for any of you dudes that are questioning the boot fitter's comments and supporters....they are absolutely right. b
Nov 12 2010 6:47PM
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seanzy96
Posts: 156 - Karma: 10
for any of you dudes that are questioning the boot fitter's comments and supporters....they are absolutely right. b
Nov 12 2010 6:47PM
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seanzy96
Posts: 156 - Karma: 10
if you have skied for a super on time....10 plus years and you have never had to go to a bootfitter than you are one of the few lucky ones. picking the boot you want is like a blind dude picki oh a Porno. our feet are so ridiculously different you can't just pick a boot out by how it looks. highly recommend a custom sole, if you have really good feet than you don't need a custom cork bed but if you spend ample time on the hill you need aftermarket insoles. any boot company or sales person that tells you you don't need insoles or a bootfitter is basically fool of s__t. word!
Nov 12 2010 6:54PM
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Boggs
Posts: 1039 - Karma: 208
You dont need them, they just simply give a better fit and feel better for some people. I have a red hot superfeet in my hot doggers and they simply make it feel better. They cost 50 bucks and are a great investment. They can also increase heel hold and give you a little more toe room.
Nov 12 2010 7:01PM
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shocker611
Posts: 2599 - Karma: 423
its funny cause i tried both of these on and ended up goin with the booter.. like so many people have said its all about fit
Nov 12 2010 8:53PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
generally speaking, footbeds create the best interface between your flexible foot and the rigid shell. Now the problem with traditional Intuition liners is that they are thick underneath the foot- this causes volume issues when adding footbeds.

For 11/12, Atomic is going to have an exclusive, custom Intuition liner that solves all the fit issues. It's pretty killer.
Nov 13 2010 1:34PM
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LivinOuttaBounZ
Posts: 949 - Karma: 382
If you and I were to race on the beach, would you rather be on the soft sand or the firm wet sand? This is the difference between a good supportive footbed and just the padded liner or rubber sole that they come with.
Nov 13 2010 5:39PM
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Klick_2_klaim
Posts: 3396 - Karma: 25
well it all depends, am I rocky 3 or Apollo Creed? and how short are my short shorts?
Nov 13 2010 7:39PM
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LivinOuttaBounZ
Posts: 949 - Karma: 382
"I just want to say hi to my girlfriend, OK? Yo, Adrian! It's me, Rocky. (Howdoya like my shorts, Adrian? Pretty short, huh)?"
Nov 14 2010 11:09AM
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