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I Ride EP Pros but would like to be able to charge without the fear of imminent death..

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Twig
Posts: 6336 - Karma: 57,072
More specifically, I bought my second pair of EPs last season but as the season progressed I got much more in to charging some lines. When the snow was deep they were just about manageable but as soon as there was crust/chop my life would start flashing before my eyes.. Thinking about the upcoming season, I've realised I'm going to have to sell them and buy something else because can't afford/travel with more than 2 pairs (have lizzies for park))..

The catch being I can't go for a true charging ski because I still want to land/ski switch in pow and i want to be able to spin comfortably and jib around.. I also can't imagine being further back than -3, having ridden everything centred for the last 6-7 years, I like the feeling, even when charging..
Will be used... 30% Playing/Jibbing all over the hill, 30% Pow Jibbing, 30% Charging (including variable snow, crud etc), 10% Groomed/Park...

I need a good amount of rocker, forward mount (0..-3), 110mm+ underfoot, Solid enough flex to charge (bearing in mind i'm used to EPs and Lizzies) and available in the UK (not Moment or on3p unfortunately)... I'm 5'9 135-140 pounds

Current thoughts:
Bentchetler: too soft? still too much vibration at speed? Probably my current 1st choice?
JJ: too funky a shape to mount forward
Bacon: too similar to EP pro? not stiff enough
Blog: On the narrow side? Hearing reports of a soft tail?
Chopsticks?: too heavy? too fat to charge?
Oct 16 2010 7:10PM
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arandomname
Posts: 1989 - Karma: 18
181 (or 191 if you want a little more stability, but I don't think you'd need it) ON3P Caylors.
Oct 16 2010 7:14PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
bibbys or benchetlers. soft and jibby, but not terrifying like EP pros.
Oct 16 2010 7:16PM
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pigglywiggly
Posts: 4482 - Karma: 305
dude, read the OP.

but i just got a pair of bent chetlers. they are definitely not noodles like EP's. They got some backbone still, however they are obviously still buttery and playful. They seem to be a do everything pow ski that is really versatile.

if you want me to, i can take a couple rocker/ camber shots if you want them...
Oct 16 2010 7:24PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
whoops. sorry missed the no moment part. i think benchetlers would be perfectly fine. still fun and jibby, but not noodles.
Oct 16 2010 7:27PM
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phishfood
Posts: 2542 - Karma: 298
surface one life (189 i believe?) or surface new life 194. they're not soft. new lifes are symmetrical.
Oct 16 2010 7:34PM
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arandomname
Posts: 1989 - Karma: 18
Oh, my bad.  The only part in there I read was the height and weight.  Then yeah, I'd probably go Bentchetlers.
Oct 16 2010 7:35PM
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AlexF
Posts: 271 - Karma: 206
Great description of what you're after! Tough to answer though.
Oct 16 2010 7:56PM
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remove
Posts: 2566 - Karma: 1,026

was about to say this. and yeah one lifes are in the 189.

Oct 16 2010 7:59PM
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curator
Posts: 86 - Karma: 11
Bentchetler i guess, not alot of skis out there that will match your description.
Oct 16 2010 8:08PM
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ReetsAdeets
Posts: 1531 - Karma: 611
One of my good friends has some JJs that he mounted 3cm back from center (recommended is 5), and they rip. They are super sick skis for everything that you just described, he uses them for all of that almost everytime we ski. I think that you would be well off getting some 185s and mounting them 3 back
Oct 16 2010 8:13PM
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crawley
Posts: 605 - Karma: 729
I love JJs and I've put in some good time with them in Jackson. But when I had to put my own money up, I went with Coreupt Permins and couldn't be happier. Much better for charging than JJs, but not as good on the hardpack or in the park, I think the mount is -5 from the factory which is where I have mine and they slay, they ride switch well too. 125 in the middle, 187 length.
Oct 16 2010 8:57PM
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Chompo.
Posts: 4952 - Karma: 88
I love my jj's. get them for sure no question.
Oct 16 2010 9:03PM
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AlexF
Posts: 271 - Karma: 206
IMO the properties of a ski for charging lines and those of one for landing switch are different. I've tried bunch of pow skis and own a fair few (Volkl Kuros, Rossi S7s, Fatypus D-senders and Ski Logik Depth Hoares). If some told me to choose a set to charge a steep line with variable conditions and get to the bottom as fast as possible I'd take the D-senders. If someone said choose a pair of landing switch in pow on then it'd easily be the Ski Logiks (you'd have to be brave, stupid or very light to think you have a chance of sticking a reasonable size drop landing switch on the S7s, Kuros or D-senders). As a pure pow ski (no switch riding) I'd probably go with the Kuros. The Kuros spank the S7s and Fatypuses for inspiring confidence in pow and chopped pow but I think the Ski Logiks will become my new favourite. Given your requirements I think that you might do well to think about bindings too. A binding that lets you move your mount back and forward will probably make a big difference (I've never used such a setup so far but am planning to this season). For steep tech lines I'd be much happier on a mount well back of centre on a stiff ski with a really beefy tail for leaning back and holding on. I'd also want some camber underfoot in case the snow turns hard. For landing switch in Pow I'd want to be centre mounted with a soft tail and loads of reverse camber. I was looking for a ski that could fulfil pretty much the exact same requirements as you. I narrowed it down to the Chopsticks and K2 Hellbents. I was definitely leaning towards the Chopsticks but came across the Ski Logik while I was in CO this summer. I went with the Ski Logik Depth Hoares over the others. Although they're not symmetrical like the chopsticks they've got so much surface area that getting the tip or tail to submarine in pow would be hard (even landing switch). They've got a bit of camber underfoot (I love my Kuro's but they're completely reverse camber and skecthy as he'll on packed snow. Despite their massive size they are very, very light. That's why I went with them. But given that you're lighter than me (I weigh around 210 at the moment, normally around 220-230lbs but am still recovering from knee surgery and can't really do exercise or hit the gym) the Depth Hoares may give you more floatation than you need. Given that I reckon the Hell Bents and Chopsticks would be a good call. The Hell Bents are specifically designed to work with schizo bindings (but any ski should be compatible), which is a plus. On the other hand I just really like all the Volkl pow skis I've tried in the past few years. I haven't been so keen on the K2 pow skis as they just didn't feel as stable as stuff from some other companies. But that may well be a function of my weight, the Hell Bents may be great for you as they'll be stiffer than the Lines but not so much stiffer that the change would unsettling.
Oct 16 2010 9:08PM
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simon44
Posts: 1183 - Karma: 1,185
sounds like last years obsethed with the marker schizo would have been perfect for you
Oct 16 2010 10:08PM
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Mt_Baker_Man
Posts: 2012 - Karma: 105
Ignoring the giant post above me:

I owned chopsticks, I own EP pros, and have skied the new Bacons, and Bent Chetlers.

Bents would work, but because of the severe early taper, they would probably be a little sketchy on the hard stuff. The new SFB might work, but in my opinion they worked better without the rocker.

I would suggest Chopsticks. Even with the huge width, they just plow right through rough spots, and they float backwards with the best of them. The only thing I did not like them for, is laying down tight turns on groomers. The combo of deep sidecut, stiffness, and rocker made for quite the exciting turning experience.
Oct 16 2010 10:14PM
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Ian_Bray
Posts: 69 - Karma: 21

Why no Moment??? Your from the UK and Elis Brigham supply Moment skis? I got the Night trains last year and found them epic, having said that it was my first taste of wide ski so I have nothing to compare them to.

How about some Liberty skis, everyone who has ridden them seems to love them.

Where do you ski btw?

You can always import skis but as the pound is so weak it will be pretty costly.

Oct 16 2010 11:39PM
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DiscoDean
Posts: 108 - Karma: 29
jj does it all
Oct 16 2010 11:51PM
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p-fo
Posts: 9372 - Karma: 6,155
how are the JJs bad for your mount? their shape and specs are pretty much meant for the range you mentioned...
Oct 17 2010 2:58AM
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julski
Posts: 281 - Karma: 50
surface live life 2 is the answer. i have them and they are perfect for charging lines on the deepest days. not to stiff to handle loads of pow, but not to soft to charge hard and go big. there some of the dopest skis around
Oct 17 2010 3:37PM
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belden...
Posts: 2914 - Karma: 1,273
K2 obseths are exactly what you want. How has only 1 person recommended them?
Oct 17 2010 4:11PM
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Mr_pretzel
Posts: 4616 - Karma: 1,289
You are describing on3p caylors, but since you cant get them Night trains will also do the job.
Oct 17 2010 4:25PM
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B-runge
Posts: 16558 - Karma: 360
LINE PROPHET 130'S

never skied them but id imagine they = charging ep's

i too experience the same feeling of mortal peril when hauling ass on my ep's
Oct 17 2010 4:41PM
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T.C.M
Posts: 67 - Karma: 19
I could not seriously think of a better ski then the ObSethed.
I've been riding the 09-10 ski for my last 3 seasons (2 southern 1 northern). Mounted at -2 from core. They are the most amazing skis. So heavily underrated. I've destroyed two sets of bindings but the skis are still going strong.
Kids seem to be touting all these alternate brands because of the cool factor. While I'm planning on picking up Caylors I think it's important to look at the ski before the brand.

More on Seths, I'm 6'1 180lb very aggressive skier who like to be playful. I've skied the Seth as a one ski quiver the last two seasons and have competed in multiple Big Mountain comps, nice conditions and crap.

Skied park, pipe, and even hit an urban set up on them.

Taken them touring.

Competed in gs and downhill.

Spent many days landing (or attempting to land) switch in pow crud ice everything off jumps drops what ever.

Skied super steep trees and wide open glades, mini pillows to mini golf.

Landed on rocks, trees and plenty of other hard things and have only just got my first edge crack.

I genuinely don't think there is a better all around ski, for the ability to charge wide open to the ability to get them sideways and super technical. From 40ft competition drops to switch pow drops, rails jumps or even shredding groomers these things are amazing and super bomb-proof.

(The grain of salt) These things are heavy, you could definitely find something lighter mine are mounted with fks too.
The newer model is significantly changed and may not perform the same, I'm planning on picking up an old pair if i can.
I'm skiing NZ conditions primarily so snow isn't as deep or soft, they still ruled in Revelstoke.
Yea I skied park etc on them but I've gone and got my self park skis now. Jumps I still love them but for jibbing it's nice to have edges you don't care about.

Hope that helps

Oct 17 2010 5:05PM
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Twig
Posts: 6336 - Karma: 57,072
I don't think Ellis Brigham are stocking Moment again this year unfortunately, or I would go for Night Trains for sure.

As for the obsethed, I thought of them as an option, but i think they might be too narrow to use as my only 'pow' ski..

JJs and Bentchetlers seem like the best options at the moment.
Do JJs still carve etc at say -2.5?
What is sidecut centre on the Chetlers? (I know the man himself has recommended -2 which is just about perfect for me).
Oct 17 2010 5:27PM
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Legoman
Posts: 533 - Karma: 13
line prophet 130s are actually only 100 quid on skibartlett right now might be a good cheap option and you could keep the eps, you can stick 3 skis in a 2 ski skibag quite easily and your probably paying overweight fees anyway
Oct 17 2010 6:22PM
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B-runge
Posts: 16558 - Karma: 360
this
Oct 17 2010 6:24PM
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DHogg
Posts: 3462 - Karma: 235
Don't be scared of skis that are are not center mounted, you get used to it really fast. I have skied on stuff like park skis, hellbents, ect for my whole life and I bought some ON3P Wrens and the rip. Love em. Forward mounted skis are never going to be as good for charging as something further back. It's a trade off. The same reason skis mounted back will never be as good as centered ones for spinning.

I would have thought that you have the jibbing side covered with your lizzies and it would make more sense to get something stiffer and big mtn orientated.

With skis like JJ's the shape is so untraditional the mount point feels centered even back @ -5 (rec).


Bentchetler: too soft? still too much vibration at speed? It's not as soft as you would think. A good 1st choice.
JJ: too funky a shape to mount forward. Same shape as bentchet. Better for charging as its stiffer though.
Bacon: too similar to EP pro? not stiff enough
Blog: On the narrow side? Hearing reports of a soft tail?
Chopsticks?: too heavy? too fat to charge?
Oct 17 2010 6:45PM
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DHogg
Posts: 3462 - Karma: 235
Well i fucked that up.

Bentchetler: too soft? still too much vibration at speed? It's not as soft as you would think. A good 1st choice.
JJ: too funky a shape to mount forward. Same shape as bentchet. Better for charging as its stiffer though. Probably best for you out of this list IMO
Bacon: too similar to EP pro? not stiff enough. I agree much too soft
Blog: On the narrow side? Hearing reports of a soft tail? Its a soft ski in general. Too soft for waht you want
Chopsticks?: too heavy? too fat to charge? Symmetical skis blow for charging and out of the park in general



Oct 17 2010 6:50PM
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p-oskier
Posts: 1407 - Karma: 58
Well you could always ask the guys at armada but they seem to say that Jacob Wester and Tanner ski them at -3 from center.
Oct 17 2010 8:08PM
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Luc.
Posts: 7540 - Karma: 59
chopsticks and prophet 130s seem to be the best options here.

the thing you should watch out for is getting something too stiff since u weigh so little, so keep that in mind when determining the length of ski you will choose.
Oct 18 2010 10:16AM
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Twig
Posts: 6336 - Karma: 57,072
Yeh, thats my problem with Chopsticks actually, that in 185 they'd be too much work. Assuming that I do sell my EPs, its probably a straight decision between JJs and Bentchetlers, cos 130s aren't 'Jibby' enough.
Oct 18 2010 10:32AM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
I agree that he pretty much described the Caylor exactly, but the Bentchetler wouldn't be a bad compromise.  If he can get the Caylor, it's worth a little shipping cost.
Oct 18 2010 10:49AM
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Literature
Posts: 13673 - Karma: 3,086
The whole idea behind the Caylor is that we wanted a pow jibbing ski that was still fun once the untracked pow is getting sliced up.

Resort skiing is hardly ever without crud or chop, and it sucks having to switch from pow noodles to chargers just because things have gotten cut up. You can charge definitely charge on Caylors without fearing for your life.
Oct 18 2010 12:43PM
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Twig
Posts: 6336 - Karma: 57,072
Yeh if i was in the US my first two choices would be Bibbys and Caylors but shipping will be at least $100 + 100 or so in tax, and i can get Bentchetlers/jjs for like $600 approx so it just isn't really cost effective.
Oct 18 2010 3:47PM
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ReetsAdeets
Posts: 1531 - Karma: 611

As I mentioned above, I have a friend with JJs. He loves them, blah blah read above. Another friend has Bentchetlers, and he loves them for pow and stuff like that, but thinks that they get knocked around a bit more in crud than he would like. To make your choice even harder, check out the Surface One life. Both of the above friends have owned it (one bought it, sold it to the other). They both agreed that its a great soft snow oriented all mountain ski. Its quite stiff, has tons of rocker, but still carves great because it has normal camber underfoot (it does, even though the website says it doesnt). Its also a pretty normal shape so will feel fine mounted more foward. From the list you gave, I would put either JJs or One Lifes at the top of the list.

Oct 18 2010 9:42PM
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S.C
Posts: 3068 - Karma: 2,281
Def look into obsethed and check the S7's!!!! such a sick ski!
Oct 18 2010 9:48PM
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HiTz
Posts: 1467 - Karma: 11
Boo at the obsethed suggestions... such a dead and not lively ski.
Definitely go with the Bent Chetler or check out some Double Helix's
Oct 18 2010 11:06PM
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Flowsion
Posts: 1461 - Karma: 11
check out the nordica zeroes, or radicts if you want wider. i'm lighter, and found the zero to be perfect for everything. stiff enough to rip frontside and charge deep yet the rocker and their flex pattern makes them playful enough near the tips. haven't ridden radicts, but i have heard they ride nicely
Oct 18 2010 11:36PM
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beermuscles
Posts: 1821 - Karma: 100
Salomon Shoguns.


Such a sick all mountain charger with the capability to get into some deeper snow. Not a hop around fattie though.

I love mine, highly recommend.
Oct 19 2010 1:08AM
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Twig
Posts: 6336 - Karma: 57,072
Currently I think JJs are top of my list, but I'm wondering how they ski switch in pow? I've seen lots of people land switch on them, but don't remember seeing anyone actually riding switch.
Its JJs or Bentchetlers.
I might pick up 09/10 obsetheds as a touring ski at some point because its a ski I really want but i just dont think its fat enough for my pow ski (given i'm used to EPs).
JJs at -3
vs
Bentchetlers at -2
seems to be my current decision. One Lifes would have to be shipped in and I think the effective edge length is too short too.
Oct 19 2010 6:10AM
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Jibbidy
Posts: 787 - Karma: 19
JB PROS??!? Hopefully with xmas around tha corner...
Oct 19 2010 10:28AM
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Peach.
Posts: 3879 - Karma: 933
Caylors are the perfect ski for you. If the tax is a true problem I would suggest prophet 130's but I urge you to seriously consider paying whatever it takes to get Caylors.
Oct 19 2010 10:52AM
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DannyKid
Posts: 67 - Karma: 55
I can get you a code for 15% off JJs if that's what you're after.

You know they made the EP 15% stiffer this year? Still pretty soft though I guess
Oct 21 2010 7:11PM
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yeahitsdave
Posts: 1315 - Karma: 10
Bent Chetler, no doubt. It's so light and poppy, its just silly.

How available is Faction over there? I've heard some good things about the Royales, I've skied the Kennedy and the Wednesday and liked them, stiffer but still playful. Just might be something different to try..

...or go really nuts and find someone to courier over some Caylors or Surface New Life/One Lifes or Moment Bibbys/Night Trains. If you had been looking two months ago when I was in Europe, I would have been happy to do so.
Oct 22 2010 8:39AM
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Newschool_Pope
Posts: 2473 - Karma: 267
id go for the night trains.
Oct 22 2010 9:21AM
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Twig
Posts: 6336 - Karma: 57,072
Ok so heres the deal.. In approximate US prices i think i can get:
Bacons $560
Bentchetlers $670
JJs $670
shipped with mounting it would be about $925 + for Caylors/Night Trains/Bibbys so that is more or less out of the question.
at those prices i'm interested if Chetlers/JJs are worth the extra 100 of the Bacons.. Given that I did like my EPs even though they were too soft, and I still love my Lizzies as a park/groomed ski..
Oct 22 2010 10:46AM
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pigglywiggly
Posts: 4482 - Karma: 305
For anyone who is curious about the bent chetler rocker/ camber, i took some pics for you!

Click for larger imageClick for larger imageClick for larger image
Oct 22 2010 5:58PM
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