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Capital Punishment

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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564
In my Government class today at school we had about a 50 minute discussion on this because we were discussing the Declaration of Independence and how there is the line unalienable rights and one of those is a person's right to life and we were discussing if Capital Punishment is a violation of that.  I am just kinda curious what NS's view on this is cause, well, I am bored as shit.

Ready, GO!
Oct 7 2009 12:31AM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
hmmm. doesnt imprisonment immediately get rid of some of your rights though?


i mean im against capital punishment period. but from a legal standpoint, i feel like if this had any grounds, it would have already been brought up.
Oct 7 2009 12:41AM
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564
CAN YOU NOT READ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

I sir, am fucking bored.
Oct 7 2009 12:43AM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
what. i meant legally would have been brought up
Oct 7 2009 12:44AM
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564
Oh.  FUCK the first set of exams giving me next to know sleep.
Oct 7 2009 12:44AM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
hahahaha "know sleep"
Oct 7 2009 12:46AM
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564
I'm going to go slam my head against my wall until I am unconscious.
Oct 7 2009 12:48AM
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T.L.
Posts: 4729 - Karma: 3,008
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Oct 7 2009 12:48AM
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raddar
Posts: 681 - Karma: 65
keep in mind that when the Declaration of Independence was written, capital punishment, usually by public hanging, was a very common punishment for crimes ranging all the way from murder to robbery and burglary. 
Oct 7 2009 12:55AM
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TZP
Posts: 874 - Karma: 61
Capital punishment applies to people who have violated someone else's same right to live. I'm guessing that the government decided that if you disregard someone else's right to live, you don't deserve to keep yours. An eye for an eye ... or so it seems
Oct 7 2009 1:15AM
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Armanzoid
Posts: 2453 - Karma: 26
It is a primitive, barbaric way to punish someone for their crimes. It is used way too freely in America. An eye for an eye does not work, it is a primitve way of law, I am surprised modern western society hasn't  moved on from it yet. We aren't walking around with clubs wearing sheep skins, we went to the fucking moon for Gods sake. Capital punishment should only be used if every other option has been exhausted, rehabilitation, psychological treatment, jail time, even prison labor, if the person is still a monster after all this, then just hang him, he can't be saved.
Oct 7 2009 1:35AM
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TZP
Posts: 874 - Karma: 61
of course in a perfect world this is what would happen, but do you realize how much money it costs for "rehabilitation, psychological treatment, jail time" ?
Oct 7 2009 1:39AM
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dman1260
Posts: 899 - Karma: 13
some people are a liability to society and if they have repeatedly proven that or proven that in a very convincing fashion based on a specific situation, it is for the greater good that they are put to death.
Oct 7 2009 1:45AM
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564
This is just my take on it, but some people will get even worse just spending time in a prison cell.  Places like Rikers, Sing Sing, or Pelican Bay (granted these are Maximum Sercurity Prisons) will grind on a person, make them worse almost.

I choose those three places primarily cause many many people that could possibly be on death row are sent to places like that.
Oct 7 2009 1:45AM
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Frank_Spinatra
Posts: 1203 - Karma: 75
the biggest problem is the endless appeals problem that goes along with it because we don't want to kill the wrong person.  It usually takes over 10 years before someone finally gets executed.  Some crimes are so heinous that you really don't deserve to live but it's hard to set a standard for it.  Id like to be for it but it isn't that practical and I don't think it is an effective deterrent at all.
Oct 7 2009 1:46AM
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Tasche
Posts: 5422 - Karma: 99
Capital punishment should be outlawed, here is why:

Studies show that it is more expensive to execute a person than to have them sit in jail. Most of this cost is derived from the extensive appeal process.

It is completely morally and ethically improper for society to execute a person. If that person is being put to death for murder in cold blood, and we retaliate by murdering them in cold blood, does that not make society a murder punishable by death? I can't think of too many ways more sadistic to end a persons life than telling them they are going to die for years. Also some research has show that the chemicals injected into the convicted may cause paralysis but the person still feels intense pain that they can not communicate.

Revenge gains nothing in society, if victims were to assign punishment the law would fall apart. People are vindictive and can not think clearly when they are victimized, that is why we have specific rules and a justice system. Many people report that they feel no better after the person who ruined their life is put to death.

The death penalty has been abused and is not standardized through states. A mentally challenged prisoner in Texas asked to save some of his last meal for later. If that doesn't disturb you then I pity you.

If just once (and not saying this already hasn't happened) we as a society execute a person, who is innocent, we are all guilty of murder.

Now I agree that some crimes are so heinous that the person deserves death but this is not our duty. I object to killing anyone based on revenge, and if I object and someone is killed by my society then I am guilty of killing that person.

So in conclusion we need to completely outlaw capital punishment. It is barbaric, out dated, and gives into human emotion. There is no reason that a convicted man can not sit in a 10X10 cell with 1 hr a day of exercise for the rest of his miserable existence. Which brings us to the prison system which I see as a much larger problem. Corrupt and overcrowded. We need to completely rethink the whole system, eliminate 3 strike laws (and all drug laws eventually, which is another story and I am rambling) focus on rehabilitation, eliminate gang activity by aggressive policing of inmate activities and solitary confinement and harsh penalties for gang activity, eliminate contact with the outside world, and put violent inmates deemed non rehabilitate in a cell with no contact to anyone beside their lawyer.

but I digress
Oct 7 2009 11:51AM
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Tasche
Posts: 5422 - Karma: 99
also it has never reduced crime rates and is a complete failure as a deterrent. In fact states with the death penalty typically have higher murder rates.
Oct 7 2009 11:53AM
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twintipteles
Posts: 2954 - Karma: 13

Well said, pretty much embodies my feelings on the matter.

Also, if you look at the number of recent DNA based exonerations of death row inmates, it becomes pretty clear that we have executed many innocent people over the years.

Oct 7 2009 12:09PM
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twintipteles
Posts: 2954 - Karma: 13

Heres a list of 138 death row inmates who have been exonerated (not all DNA evidence) or had the charges dismissed since 1973. I don't know how anyone can be in favor of the death penalty in light of this. Some of these inmates were sentenced to death for over 20 years before being freed.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/innocence-list-those-freed-death-row

Oct 7 2009 12:14PM
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KarmaInitiative
Posts: 2028 - Karma: 174
Unlike most liberals, i support capital punishment, but not heavily. I think that in some few situations where the person is guilty of a really bad crime, i dont care if they get killed. For those who argue that this is cruel & unusual, there are many aspects of prison that i would consider cruel and unusual punishment
Oct 7 2009 12:19PM
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VT_FLO
Posts: 3806 - Karma: 147
capitol punishment is legit. Only for murders and rapists though
Oct 7 2009 12:23PM
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Steezius_Maximus
Posts: 1152 - Karma: 22
capital punishment is a bit crazy in the u.s. every one knows this they go like really overboard with this
Oct 7 2009 12:32PM
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564
Many child molesters, rapists, and wife beaters don't make it through their terms without spending close to something like 40% of their time in the infirmary from beatings and other events.
Oct 7 2009 1:08PM
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FrenchToastMafia
Posts: 2195 - Karma: 452
who is the most famous author that has writen about capital punishment or the death penalty? need to know this for school
Oct 7 2009 1:20PM
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Tasche
Posts: 5422 - Karma: 99
Click for larger image

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haha no I don't know
Oct 7 2009 1:23PM
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NW_Rider
Posts: 2580 - Karma: 314
[IMG]manchesteruniversitypress.co.uk/uploads/covers/7730-2.jpg[/IMG]

part 1
Oct 7 2009 3:19PM
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NW_Rider
Posts: 2580 - Karma: 314
fuck me, it is Thomas More's Utopia in Early Modern Europe
Oct 7 2009 3:20PM
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frosted_flakes
Posts: 1200 - Karma: 1,256
I support capital punishment because every american citizen has agreed to a social contract giving up some of their rights to keep others, but when you violate that you lose your right to life according to the social contract of U.S law. People did their crimes knowing the consequence could be death therefore leading me to have NO MERCY!! lol
Oct 7 2009 3:44PM
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FUUUCK
Posts: 18426 - Karma: 4,888
I'd rather die than be locked up in solitary confinement for the rest of my life. Death shouldn't be considered the greatest punishment a convicted criminal can face. In my opinion it's taking the easy way out.
Oct 7 2009 4:34PM
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564
The one thing it does do is give closure to victim's families.
Oct 7 2009 5:04PM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
I think the great over-arching reason we have capital punishment is as a specific deterrent to murder.  Death is a very real fear when a person is considering killing someone else.  Also take note that there are a lot of people on Death Row who aren't executed and won't be any time soon.  I think we make every effort to avoid using capital punishment, but when there is no doubt that a person is evil it becomes a lot easier to show others that serious consequences exist.
Oct 7 2009 5:18PM
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PhaedeD
Posts: 11498 - Karma: 327
capital punishment is legit as fuck. keep it going!
Oct 7 2009 5:23PM
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Tasche
Posts: 5422 - Karma: 99
again, it has never been shown to be a deterrent. And it costs more than jail time for life.
Oct 7 2009 5:34PM
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PhaedeD
Posts: 11498 - Karma: 327
ya well maybe we should change the costs a little then. i know i glock costs 500 dollars and 1 bullet costs around 1 dollar..
Oct 7 2009 7:30PM
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Lt.Dan
Posts: 87 - Karma: 11
I'm reading Helter Skelter right now and it has definitely changed my views on capital punishment.  It's about this guy Charles manson who killed a shit ton of people.  He got a life sentence which just costs the tax payers extra money but the thing that really grinds my gears is that he spent over 17 years in prison for just about every crime in the book.  Then he's released goes on a killing spree and then he just sits in jail wasting our money.  The guy has absolutely zero use to society.
Oct 7 2009 7:30PM
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Slinger1x1
Posts: 8853 - Karma: 65
Well everyone deserves life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, yes.
But if you deny someone of this, by saying murdering them or raping them or something, then you do not deserve these rights

now i personally think its better to let the person rott in jail and have a terrible life than get off easy and go out quick and painless
Oct 7 2009 7:35PM
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anxju
Posts: 9371 - Karma: 61
we had a 3 class discussion/debate, about 150 minutes total, in latin class last year. it was awesome
Oct 7 2009 7:37PM
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Chris.S
Posts: 881 - Karma: 30
i agree with the people who say that it's the easy way out for some criminals. According to Tasche it costs less for a prisoner to spend their entire life in jail, if this is the case i think they should have to stay their for their entire life, even though capitol punishment can potentially give the victim's family a sense of closure. This is just my opinion, I can understand why some people would want to continue capitol punishment, however I think it's not necessary.
Oct 7 2009 7:44PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
not only is it an easy way out. but we fuck up sometimes. what if we kill the wrong dude.
Oct 7 2009 7:46PM
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Uncle.Badness
Posts: 2545 - Karma: 55
I going to put it straight up and say that after 20-30 years in the penn I might want to die. I've never been locked up so I wouldn't know, but I'm much more afraid of being alone in a 12" by 12" cell for the rest of my life then death. Also I think that overtime most people are able to show remorse(not a religious belief). The only exception is people who should just not exist i.e. pedophiles and sick bastards like hitler and stalin.
Oct 7 2009 7:49PM
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charmander
Posts: 10636 - Karma: 372
id rather kill 1 innocent than let 10 guilty live.

the death penalty is way too stingy in my opinion.
Oct 7 2009 8:08PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
tell you what, will kill someone in your family when we fuck up, then well see how you feel.
Oct 7 2009 8:57PM
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Chris.S
Posts: 881 - Karma: 30
true, we've definitely killed the wrong guy multiple times in the past. I just forgot to add that to my post, i didn't leave it out on purpose.
Oct 7 2009 9:39PM
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SteezyOhio
Posts: 6044 - Karma: 60
hahahahahahahahahahahaha holy shit! this is even funnier cause ive seen entire like 10 minute movies on the guy who made this and was insane.

capital punishment, seems fun. (sarcasm)
Oct 7 2009 9:43PM
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CBROOKS
Posts: 4979 - Karma: 10,708
+ Karma for a well written post, we share the same views.
Oct 7 2009 9:44PM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
Has it been shown to NOT be a deterrent?  And yes, didn't mention anything about cost, but I think anyone who has even existed the last 10 years knows that we somehow manage to spend more on capital punishment than a life sentence.
Oct 7 2009 10:07PM
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dman1260
Posts: 899 - Karma: 13
Well written post, but I have disagree on a couple of points.

First off, I do not agree that the cost of capital punishment vs. sentencing someone to life is a valid reason for objecting to capital punishment. The high cost of capital punishment is due to the legal system and the appeal process, not the nature of capital punishment. If you wish to object against the high price of capital punishment look to the state of our legal system.

Secondly, what basis do you have for labeling capital punishment morally and ethically improper? In Christian society this may be viewed as the case, but it is not universally accepted that executing an individual for heinous crimes is improper. In some cultures it is viewed as the proper alternative.



Oct 7 2009 10:16PM
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ski_ENDUB
Posts: 2535 - Karma: 86
Capital Punishment is suprisingly expensive, but I'm all for it. there are definitely those select individuals who are so fucked in the head, like charlie manson crazy, that the world really would be a better place without them.
Oct 7 2009 10:28PM
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pmills
Posts: 7162 - Karma: 59
what's the difference to the world if the worst are locked away in solitary or killed?
Oct 7 2009 10:43PM
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Inbred_Redneck
Posts: 2776 - Karma: 28
If a person violates another's right to live then yes, they should be executed.

OR and this one's for all the hippies against CP

Send the felon to Antarctica with nothing but the clothes on his back, a loaf of bread or dried corn, and a lighter. Let Darwin sort him out.
Oct 7 2009 10:48PM
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soulskier
Posts: 17805 - Karma: 3,821
for me, the juries is still out
but i always been a fan of 'lex talionis' as primitive as it may be
Oct 7 2009 10:48PM
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