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ARG's or Hellbents?

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austinmetsch
Posts: 525 - Karma: 17

i'm looking in to buying either Armada ARG's or K2 Hellbents. which is the better ski?

Apr 26 2009 7:45PM
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shortdawg
Posts: 1359 - Karma: 19
stupid question
Apr 26 2009 8:20PM
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Balto
Posts: 25985 - Karma: 4,398
ARG-deep deep pow, charging, speed in trees, big cliffs
bents-better on groomers/park, more jibby(softer)
Apr 26 2009 8:23PM
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Willard
Posts: 5117 - Karma: 429
correct me if im wrong but i dont think the arg would be very good riding switch
Apr 26 2009 10:15PM
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the-big-lepowski
Posts: 1212 - Karma: 544
not necesarily better than the hellbents, but still not bad.  A reverse sidecut ski like the pontoon will submarine if you try to ski switch, but something like the ARG that has 5 dimensions and is equally narrower in the tip and tail than in the waist will still ride switch well.  As for the thread creator, details, details, details.  Neither one is necessarily a better ski, just dpends on its intended use.
Apr 26 2009 10:42PM
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schmies
Posts: 2032 - Karma: 505
Pontoon is NOT reverse sidecut. And please show me one picture or edit of people riding switch on ARGs. I am curious.


Apr 27 2009 12:47PM
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backwardsrider
Posts: 543 - Karma: 70

Ive ridden Moment Donner parties which are pretty much the same same as ARGs jus 5mm wider throughout, and they ride/ land switch in pow better than hellbents.

Apr 27 2009 1:04PM
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Caveman.
Posts: 9067 - Karma: 330
What is it then?
Apr 27 2009 3:17PM
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Fish_Sandwich.
Posts: 9108 - Karma: 16
It sort of is, but the tail is not that wide compared to the shove.  So the Pontoon is a really directional ski.  I'm not sure if the rocker is that prevalent in the tail either.  Schmies would know for sure though.
Apr 27 2009 3:28PM
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jca
Posts: 4162 - Karma: 6,261

It's tapered, widest in the tip then underfoot and skinniest in the tail (think teardrop kind of).

Why wouldnt ARG's land switch well in powder? If they float so well forwards, Im sure they are really well backwards.  Infact from riding Donner Parties I know that they ride just as well backwards as Hellbents or Ep pros.

Apr 27 2009 3:35PM
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the-big-lepowski
Posts: 1212 - Karma: 544

Alright, reverse sidecut is probably not the right term.  But its certainly not traditional sidecut.  Dimensions are 160-130-120, I think.  Its essentially the ultimate waterski based snow ski for maximum floatation.  What is the official term please?  What do K2 or McConkey call it?  And as someone said above, if schmies doesn't know what he's talking about, noone does. 

As for ARGs switch, I'm quite sure that Travis Steeger throws  a few 900's into powder, and I have yet to see one of those where the skier neither takes off or lands switch.  I have not skied either of these skis, so all my info is second hand.

Apr 27 2009 6:31PM
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SV420
Posts: 242 - Karma: 10
Actually if you look down the side of the ski you will realize it does have the shape of a traditional sidecuted ski, but it is typically referred to as tapered sidecut.
Apr 27 2009 7:52PM
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bigwhite.steeze
Posts: 8227 - Karma: 1,030
for the people wondering you can ski switch quite well in pow with ARG's. why wouldnt they? they probly carve better switch in pow then EP's or hellbents because of the reverse sidecut.
Apr 27 2009 7:53PM
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SV420
Posts: 242 - Karma: 10
Oh yeah and to the thread creator a normal sidecuted rockered ski is about half as good in powder as a reverse/reverse ski.
Apr 27 2009 7:53PM
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zackblain
Posts: 2322 - Karma: 22
that guys fucking sick!
Apr 27 2009 8:54PM
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backwardsrider
Posts: 543 - Karma: 70
I endorse this statement.
Apr 27 2009 9:17PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
I endorse the endorsment of the statement.

Seriously the ARG's are tooo much fun.   I actually learned how to ride switch on the ARG's in like 2-3" of pow on the groomers back to the lift.  I still prefer to ride my ARG's switch in shallow fresh over riding my blends switch on a normal day.


THere is nothing like skiing trees on a RR ski...nothing.
Apr 28 2009 12:33AM
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whistlerpow
Posts: 115 - Karma: 10
so you guys reckon jj's over hellbents for pow
Apr 28 2009 2:45AM
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Holte
Posts: 10730 - Karma: 7,744
Come on. Height, weight, type of skiing preferred, snow conditions...?
Apr 28 2009 5:37AM
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schmies
Posts: 2032 - Karma: 505
Pontoon has sidecut in the flat part underfoot for carving on firmer snow. Most reverse sidecut skis you would see having a wider waist then they FCP forward contact point and the ACP aft contact point. And yes, generally we suggest the Pontoon for directional pow shreding. YOU can drop cliffs switch on them, but obviously they are not the ideal tool since they are tapered.

Yeah Travis was a shredder for sure, I just meant you never see someone actually making turns on the ski switch. People do short take offs or land 180s, 5s or 9s on them with relatively straight run outs. Not saying it can't be done, I just have never seen it. That's all. Not trying to incite an argument, just wondering.
Apr 28 2009 1:33PM
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AJizzle
Posts: 1882 - Karma: 522
Uhhhhhhhh........the Pontoon.  Because it's designed like a plane pontoon, with a tiny amount of sidecut under foot.  Good question though, the answer must be hidden some where in a back room at K2 where only McConkey and the CEO know about it......or its written on the fucking ski.
Apr 28 2009 1:45PM
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the-big-lepowski
Posts: 1212 - Karma: 544

Thank you, Captain Obvious.  I know it's called the Pontoon after a water plane's pontoon.  That also explains the graphic.  What I still don't know is the official term for it, because Schmies corrected me that its not exactly reverse sidecut.  Oh, and I feel like I almost made sense of the ACP and FCP that Schmies mentioned above, but not quite.  What does that stand for please?

anyone else like the sentence that mcconkey included on the topsheet?  It was something like - "In the likely case of a powder landing, these skis should be used as a floatation device."  Definately reminds me of His kind of humor

Apr 28 2009 7:11PM
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austinmetsch
Posts: 525 - Karma: 17
I'm 5'6" 130 pounds. about 50 50 park pow but i definitly want a rockered ski and prefferably fairly buttery. Are they Hellbents hard to ski switch not in pow?
Apr 28 2009 8:23PM
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Holte
Posts: 10730 - Karma: 7,744
I can't comment on ARGs because I've never ridden them, but Hellbents ride fine switch and regular on piste. Unless I'm in the park, or the conditions are icy, they're usually my all-mountain ski.
Apr 28 2009 8:42PM
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austinmetsch
Posts: 525 - Karma: 17
have you skied them in the park? if so do they do ok at least?
Apr 28 2009 8:50PM
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the-big-lepowski
Posts: 1212 - Karma: 544
ARG's in the park?  I'm thinking not.  Even Hellbents are a stretch, definatley much more pow oriented than 50/50 park and pow.  Some people call it ridiculous, others swear by it.  If you really want a rockered park ski, check out alpha 1 or 2.  Also, is this going to be your only ski?  If so, I might suggest you looking at something more versatile.
Apr 28 2009 9:33PM
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jca
Posts: 4162 - Karma: 6,261
 
May 3 2009 5:51PM
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shortdawg
Posts: 1359 - Karma: 19

can someone explain to me the difference between, sidecut, reverse sidecut, camber, reverse camber, and taper. Im pretty clear on most of them but this thread is confusing the hell out of me

May 3 2009 6:02PM
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Shewlur...
Posts: 5046 - Karma: 940
if your username vaskier means virgina then forget about getting pow skis

no point what so ever
May 3 2009 8:30PM
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ShadyHillGroup
Posts: 2881 - Karma: 213
sidecut is the curvature of the side of the ski. For a ski to have reverse sidecut the waist would have to be wider than the tip and tail causing the ski to curve outward. if that makes sense. Camber is the curvature the ski has vertically. Say you rest a traditional ski flat on the ground, the middle section of the ski will not be touching the ground, that is the skis camber. If its reverse camber, underfoot will be on the ground but the tips and tails will not. As for taper im not quiet sure. By looking at the pontoons ive seen in shops I think its just means the ski has a general taper from tip to tail, no continuous eliptical sidecut running the length of the ski, but pontoons do have a little sidecut underfoot
May 4 2009 1:18AM
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mr_hartl
Posts: 650 - Karma: 772
id say the hellbent if u want the buttery ski that can still ride well in the park.. i have invaders and hellbents and split about 50 50 park and pow too... the bents are sick cause in the spring when the snow gets super soft i ride the bents in the park cause they blast through the slush... they do pretty good on rails, depending on what box im hitting i sometimes get caught up on the coping but its pretty rare. butters are super sick on the bents too. if u want a more playfull ski id say bents cause ive heard the args are more of a big line charging ski... just my 2 cents...
May 4 2009 3:35AM
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the-big-lepowski
Posts: 1212 - Karma: 544
My take on taper is that it's how the ski narrows from its widest point.  The pontoon's dimensions keep getting smaller from tip to tail, a continual taper.  My SFB's have early taper, meaning that the widest point is located before the end of the tip/tail.  Feel free to correct me on any of this, Schmies.
May 4 2009 8:52AM
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mackcamp
Posts: 1207 - Karma: 263

YA they are sooo fun in the park

they are a lot to get around for spinning buy everything u do looks sick on em

super stable on rails

May 4 2009 10:39AM
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ShadyHillGroup
Posts: 2881 - Karma: 213
yeah this is what i meant by taper. you worded it a little better ha
May 4 2009 12:12PM
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WIfreeskier
Posts: 8125 - Karma: 65
LL2s if you still want to rip park and shred pow, so much fun
May 4 2009 12:59PM
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mr_hartl
Posts: 650 - Karma: 772
maybe take a look at the libtech jibnas with recurve if your looking for a ski that can ride both pow and park... ive never skied them but they have an interesting design... im actually debating between those anthems or afterbangs for my next park ski.
May 4 2009 5:07PM
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