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April, 2024

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Drill here. Drill now. Pay Less.

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Shpadoinkle
Posts: 10437 - Karma: 84
As gas prices continue to increase, Congress continues to blame others while ignoring practical steps to stop the pain Americans are feeling at the pump. To lower gasoline prices and reduce our dependence on foreign oil, we need real solutions to our energy challenges.
"We, therefore, the undersigned citizens of the United States, petition the U.S. Congress to act immediately to lower gasoline prices (and diesel and other fuel prices)* by authorizing the exploration of proven energy reserves to reduce our dependence on foreign energy sources from unstable countries."

Sign the petition @ http://www.americansolutions.com/

Sign it or shut our mouth because we are already debating this in another thread.
Jun 16 2008 10:01PM
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-dva-
Posts: 1530 - Karma: 23
alright, here we go.

1) eating local does not mean eating something that your neighbor grew in his back yard.  the goal for eating locally should be 100 miles, give or take.  i live in a city and were i not a broke college student, i could go to a farmer's market twice a week and buy all the groceries i need.  all of which were grown within 50-60 miles of where i live.  and even eating things grown throughout the US isnt a huge deal.  but do you really need to eat fruit that was grown in chile in the middle of the winter? no.

2) i know truckers haul more than just food.  there is no real solution to this problem other than the fact that we need to cut down our consumption, thereby reducing the number of routes that trucks need to run and if you're not buying, then the increased prices really don't affect you anyway.

3) i think it is both hilarious and devastating that people who are 100% pro ANWR and for "loosening a few rules here and there" are the same people who keep incredible projects like Cape Wind from happening.  if you don't know what that is, look it up.  another issue entirely that i won't get into.

4) having worked for an energy R&D firm, i can tell you that we're a hell of a lot closer than you think to being able to drastically reduce our needs for oil.  not only that, the price of gas is not going to continue to rise steadily at ten cents a week.  it spikes and levels.  its what it has always done and what it will continue to do.

5) please refrain from making outlandish statements like "soon there will be a tax on bike tires."

hopefully that was sufficient but feel free to let me know if i missed anything.  i'd be happy to continue to address your skepticism.
Jun 17 2008 2:29AM
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ESB
Posts: 9273 - Karma: 10,647
Thank you.







The name of that website says it all. "American solution," indeed.
Jun 17 2008 2:36AM
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yesdear
Posts: 2 - Karma: 10
I haven't posted anything on this site in ages. (Obviously on a previous account that I can't remember the password for) but this petition is so ridiculous that I felt the need to reply. Oh and please don't disregard my post because of my post count.

Drilling in ANWR will NOT stop US dependence on foreign oil for several reasons.

There are roughly 10.4billion barrels of recoverable oil in ANWR (estimated), which is ROUGHLY THE AMOUNT OF OIL THE US CONSUMES IN A YEAR!!!. Also, you must take into consideration the fact that  the drilling will peak at 875 00 barrels/day in the year 2025, by which the US is projected to use 35million barrels of oil a day, as compared to the 20million we use now.

"The U.S. Energy Information Administration, an independent statistical agency within the Department of Energy, concluded that new oil from ANWR would lower the world price of oil by no more than $1.44 per barrel—and possibly have as little effect as 41 cents per barrel"

41 cents a barrel... What is a barrel of oil going for right now? 137dollars? And you are pushing to drill for a decrease of less than a dollar...

And don't even talk to me about the oil shale deposits of the mid west such as the Bakken Oil Shale.
All attempts at extracting this oil, which is deposited in shale 9000feet underneath the ground have failed to be economically viable on a large scale. Also, the Bakken Oil Shale deposits, which are supposedly "HUGE" amount to 4.3billion barrels of oil, or, more simply put, 1months supply at the current global demand rate.




Sources:
http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/national/2008/05/23/arctic-drilling-wouldnt-cool-high-oil-prices.html
http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4542853/
Jun 17 2008 2:49AM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,682
thank you for pointing that out.

The sole goal of this petition is to allow the oil companies into a wild life refuge, one of the few that remain in our country. Once the companies go in and drill that will be it. It will never go back to the untouched paradise that it is. One Barrel of oil provides about 19 and a half gallons of gasoline. Are you willing to destroy one of the few pieces of nature we have left to see a temporary drop in gas prices of 7 cents a gallon? And that is the best case scenario. It could result in as little as 2 cents a gallon.



I am by no way an enviromentalist hippy. I am an Economist and put a dollar value on everything. And to me the Alaskan Wild Life Reserves are worth a whole lot more then 7 cents a gallon.

The US uses about 16.5 million barrels of oil a day in gasoline (in 2005), that does not include any other oil use. So if All of the oil in the ANWR reserves is converted to just gasoline that would provide the US with 630 days of gasoline or 1 year and 9 months. That is with out factoring in the cost (in oil) of distributing that gasoline throughout a 3.5 million square mile country.

And if you want an even more economic view on the matter: The longer we don't drill the more valuable that oil becomes and the greater the impact it would have on the US economy. People were pushing for us to do so when oil was $17 a barrel in 2001. That would equate to $176 Billion Dollars in oil. Now At $137 a barrel that oil is worth 1.424 trillion dollars. The value of the ANWR reserves went up 8 times in 7 years. We are living in exponential times imagine what waiting another 7 years would do to the value of those Reserves. The Price of Oil will peak, we wait for that and we get the oil right before it peaks. But we are not there yet.




sources:
www.gravmag.com/oil.html
seattle pi.
Jun 17 2008 3:49AM
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funk.
Posts: 2679 - Karma: 33
These threads are starting to piss me off but..

Fuck. You.  ANWR is capable of supporting the US for roughly one month's consumption of oil or 3% or our normal use. 

NRDC estimated that by increasing the vehicle fuel standard to 40 miles per gallon over the next decade would save the US 6.5 time more oil than ANWR can produce. 1.3 million jobs can also be created in the process vs the 55,000 that drilling would create.

^That's a fucking fact.  ANWR is going to kill the North Slope.  You don't live here.  You haven't seen it.  You don't know what the fuck its like.  We don't need the oil up there.  We need alternative energy systems to keep our personal transit system alive or else we need to switch to mass transit options.  Personally I believe oil should just fucking jump up 5 dollars a gallon overnight so people would conserve more.  I decreased the electricity consumption in my household nine folds when our energy quintupled and I was living fine.  Its fucking doable. 

We also don't need large oil companies running our gov't.  Luckily Palin isn't a selfish bitch and is letting the low bidder from CANADA actually construct a pipeline.. Unlike the proposition Murkowski set up.  Its corrupt bullshit that sucks to deal with. 
Jun 17 2008 4:02AM
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aurora.
Posts: 1169 - Karma: 104
^thank you.
Jun 17 2008 4:04AM
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funk.
Posts: 2679 - Karma: 33
one year's**
Jun 17 2008 4:18AM
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ChrisMercer
Posts: 351 - Karma: 30
my thoughts exactly.


my opinion:

This petition procrastinates the actions these higher prices have sparking in our civilization.  With improvements in technology, we become more efficient.  It's hard to change our habits, especially being raised in cars, but it has to happen sometime and I'd love to live to see the transformation.  It's going to be very interesting.  Hopefully, American car companies pave the way and market toward the ever growing industry oil dependancy has created.  It would be nice to see GM come out of its slump and provide stable jobs for our uneducated Americans.

If nothing changes, imagine the impact these prices will have on the tourism at ski resorts.  You all might be out of jobs here in the not so long future. =( 

Can't imagine it?....Well I'll paint a picture that might come true, this is all hypothetical:
I can already tell my days are going to be lower this coming season.  I can't afford to drive up on all of my days off, and that means those waitresses aren't getting my tip money.  Without my tip money, they aren't buying new gear.  Without them buying gear, production will slow down.  With a small supply of gear, the price of all gear will rise.  With the price of gear rising you all won't be able to afford to look fresh and gangster-esque.  Without skiers looking cool, interest in our sport will drop.  Once there is no interest in skiing by the general public, ski resorts will shut down.  Without ski resorts, you all will be sad and kill yourselves.  I know its sad, but it could potentially happen.
Jun 17 2008 4:49AM
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Elijah.
Posts: 9322 - Karma: 76
Get a roadbike. Problem solved.
Jun 17 2008 4:59AM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
ok, i really am not going to put allot of effort into this,

i live in MN, well how the hell am i supposed to drink orange juice? 

you live in (insert)  well how the hell are you going to eat (beef, corn, fruit, ect.... )   

see, you cant always eat local..

also, its not only food truckers are hauling, think about all the stuff you bought at Target, or walmart, you better believe that it was hauled on a truck....

sure, maybe you can afford higher prices for everything, but what about the single mom working 2 jobs, and barely scraping by, how is she supposed to afford everything? the price of Oil can change everything........
Jun 17 2008 6:35AM
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Calb3rt
Posts: 6005 - Karma: 2,202
stay the fuck out of my state.
Jun 17 2008 7:05AM
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Ryno
Posts: 31125 - Karma: 336
Your first paragraph: Do you realize how mant 'biproducts' of oil we waste every fucking day in senseless overpackageing of goods? We can recycle plastics and other byproducts and reuse them. Maybe if plastic was more fucking expensive we'd stop wrapping everything thing we by in it.

Spark notes: Excess packageing needs to stop.
Jun 17 2008 8:19AM
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smuggs
Posts: 6561 - Karma: 1,373
the us is smart.....they are going to save that oil until its worth 20 dollars a gallon because its gone every where else....
Jun 17 2008 9:02AM
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coolhandluke
Posts: 4465 - Karma: 153
1) gluttony and i-got-it-for-cheap will always be the bane of america.  we import some food for luxury, others because of the season, others because even after duties its still the cheapest food source.  until you make the domestic food cheaper than the foreign food, you will not be able to stop people from importing.  this goes for all goods.  the only current method of halting this for steel is the 'by america'  clause in federally funded construction projects.

2) i agree. people have a lot of extra shit they don't need, most of it foreign produced (and most of that from china) which simply pumps money into china.  shopping is a drug for some, and others the best stick to measure our economy on.

3) i have nothing against wind power.  i dealt with solar mostly in school, and hydro mostly in the real world.  these are some of the most practical solutions given the current technology.  we need these for domestic energy production, however they cannot directly power mobiles (cars, trucks, etc).  the best bet (i think) is for these to become the primary energy source for static items, thus reducing the amount of oil import going to power static sources, and saving almost all of the imported oil for mobiles (the indirect benefit of your offshore wind farm on oil consumption).

4) how close are you to practical prices?  i was involved in this past solar decathlon sponsored by the US department of energy (team got third).  a house that was energy self sufficient with high-efficiency modularized photovoltaics, environmentally friendly with bamboo I-joints, etc.  but guess the cost of this double-wide sized 'house'.  the technology is there, but not a price fit for general consumption.  also OPEC is sure enjoying the current oil bull market and i don't think they're about to pop the brakes.

5) check it; i didn't say "soon there will be".  i stated that you are taking away tax revenue on one the most important elements of our society (infrastructure) and politicians are going to figure out some outlandish way to make it up without thinking very thoroughly.
Jun 17 2008 10:06AM
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coolhandluke
Posts: 4465 - Karma: 153
they're saving up to pay back the marshall plan.  maybe even undo the london debt agreement of 1953.
Jun 17 2008 10:31AM
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0123456789
Posts: 9226 - Karma: 148
well, mabye you shouold realize that we dont get all our oil from arabia, like it is thought, only a few gas station(exxon shell i think) and a few others get tehir oil from there.


adn stevesept im pretty sure there isnt 22trillion gallons in calorado... thats kinda redicoulous, somebody would have started drilling and exploited teh shit outta that by now.
Jun 17 2008 10:38AM
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3ski6guy0
Posts: 9201 - Karma: 132
why drill for oil here when its just going to run out anyways? how about we devote ourselves to finding new energy solutions instead and stop relying on oil completely
Jun 17 2008 10:54AM
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ESB
Posts: 9273 - Karma: 10,647
Isn't this exactly what high oil prices are doing?
Jun 17 2008 11:33AM
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Rez4frederick
Posts: 4740 - Karma: 40
Yea, because the only people who need gas are the ones who just cruise around town........
What about planes, trains, semis, people who use heavy equipment to work, i guess they should just all walk and do their work by hand instead right?.
Jun 17 2008 12:19PM
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Rez4frederick
Posts: 4740 - Karma: 40
My bullshit alarm is going off....
Jun 17 2008 12:35PM
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coolhandluke
Posts: 4465 - Karma: 153
not sure what you mean.  on oil there is no current direct foreign-domestic competition.
Jun 17 2008 12:46PM
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Skwirl
Posts: 313 - Karma: 18
I hate threads like this.

How short sighted can you be to want to drill in ANWR? According to the most recent USGS survey there is possibly up to the equivalent of the amount of oil the US uses in 1.5 years in ANWR. However, you should understand that oil is a commodity, so it won't work like that. In fact, with the companies that are looking to develop the region, a large amount of the oil will go to foreign countries like China. And, even if it didn't, our gas prices would not drop very significantly because, as I stated earlier, oil is a commodity. So, are you really willing to drill in one of the last pristine areas of the US so that you can have gas prices that are slightly lower for a while? The oil will not last long, but the damage to the environment will. Even John McCain, a staunch republican said, "that he opposed drilling in ANWR for the same reason that he “would not drill in the Grand Canyon… I believe this area should be kept pristine.” The end of the age of oil is inevitable. We have already reached peak oil and solutions such as drilling in ANWR are shortsighted at best. If you really want to affect gas prices, try to get congress to pass laws that encourage conservation, don't come on NS and try to convince a bunch of naive little 16 year olds to sign a petition that they know nothing about. Your post simply says "sign here to lower gas prices" without saying how you plan to go about that. Thats like having people sign a petition to end world hunger without telling them that you are going to go about that by killing all the hungry people. If you really believe in this, inform people using facts and let them come to their own conclusions, if you position is strong people will naturally side with you.
Jun 17 2008 1:13PM
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gotthelove
Posts: 70 - Karma: 10
people used to do it all the time........ you live in southeast/west, drink orange juice.... you live in northeast, drink apple juice.... cows can be raised in nearly any climate soo  beef can be eaten anywhere, same with chickens.. its not that hard to eat local if you want to
Jun 17 2008 1:59PM
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Shpadoinkle
Posts: 10437 - Karma: 84
http://anwr.org/

http://newt.org/tabid/102/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/3495/Default.aspx

http://newt.org/tabid/102/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/3510/Americas-Mission-Number-One-in-Oil-Production.aspx

Read it because I don't feel like posting the articles over and over.




**I'm only voting for McCain because he is the lesser of the two evils.



Jun 17 2008 2:50PM
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Skwirl
Posts: 313 - Karma: 18
^Because sources like Newt Gingrich and a website created by arctic power (ANWR.org), a group funded by such companies as ChevronTexaco with no vested interest in the matter should convince everyone.
Jun 17 2008 3:09PM
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Skwirl
Posts: 313 - Karma: 18
And by that I mean, be more critical of what you read. Just because somebody wrote it, doesn't make it true.
Jun 17 2008 3:10PM
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yelsel
Posts: 12967 - Karma: 3,451
Haha Im sorry but thats a joke, just like this thread
Jun 17 2008 3:18PM
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.Brink.
Posts: 1622 - Karma: 188
this is so true i dont know why everyone is hating on you but what they dont realize is that high gas prices force people to come up with alternate energy sources to combat the high oil prices and it reduces our dependency on oil. Yes it costs more in the long run and yes shit will be more expensive but at least we wont be fucked permanently like we will be when we run out of fucking oil you ignorant fucks.
Jun 17 2008 3:53PM
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Ryno
Posts: 31125 - Karma: 336
This petition epitomizes the short-term thinking of both the U.S. government and its the citizens who sign it. Sadly pathetic...
Jun 17 2008 4:06PM
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rusteezee
Posts: 332 - Karma: 14
theres no point in not drilling for oil in anwr. even if it only gives us a certain amount and doesnt last a lifetime who cares. its still oil.
Jun 17 2008 4:11PM
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skiEER
Posts: 4089 - Karma: 79
maybe with gas prices this high people will actually try to use less gas
Jun 17 2008 4:40PM
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tjski
Posts: 5859 - Karma: 44
who gives a shit, if it will last us a few years by that time we "run out" of oil we will have a fairly good selection of alternative powered cars and what not..
Jun 17 2008 7:36PM
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-dva-
Posts: 1530 - Karma: 23
i think you've missed the point.  we need to start transitioning NOW to create a more suitable infrastructure for these alternative vehicles.  the longer we rely 100% on oil, the more fucked we are.  we can't just wake up one morning, realize we're out of oil and flip a switch so that everyone now magically has a fuel cell car and all of the gas stations have hydrogen pumps, etc.  drilling in ANWR is only prolonging the inevitable and is not a solution to this problem.
Jun 17 2008 8:36PM
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KRASHED
Posts: 7803 - Karma: 466
This petition really summarizes what is wrong with America and the people that sign it. I really think that Aspendukes has failed to educate herself outside of the studies that drilling companies have presented to her, and the sort sighted others.
This should have been titled. Drill here. Drill blindly. Prolong the Inevitable.
Jun 17 2008 8:54PM
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Sufferboy
Posts: 4241 - Karma: 122
that what i do, i bike 25 8
Jun 17 2008 8:57PM
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ChrisMercer
Posts: 351 - Karma: 30
you're voting mccain???? have you been in a coma these past 8 years?
Jun 17 2008 8:58PM
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tjski
Posts: 5859 - Karma: 44
no i see the point.. but i am goin to have to disagree with you on this one. I think that we are already in the transition of alternative fuels, and drilling in ANWR will just help us out until we get the kinks worked out in the alternative fueled vehicals. thats just my opinion.. but i do understand where you are coming from though, we deffinitly need to try and speed things up but i am all for anything to help lower fuel prices right now.. its making the prices of everything sky rocket... my family owns a business so i know how it effects things.
Jun 17 2008 9:13PM
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KRASHED
Posts: 7803 - Karma: 466
The thing is though where does it stop? Where do we stop drilling for more fuel as a solution to figuring out the fuel shortage crisis? It's sounding more and more like a chain smoker who won't stop smoking until there's a little magic pill that will immediately let them kick the habit.
Jun 17 2008 9:31PM
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Shpadoinkle
Posts: 10437 - Karma: 84

I have read a lot. I have done a lot of research. I don't talk about politics without being educated on the subject at hand. I also don't sign without reading the fine print. What have you read?

To the guy that said I was in a coma. Were you here during the Clinton administration?

Jun 17 2008 9:44PM
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Ryno
Posts: 31125 - Karma: 336
The right wing is kinda like the dark side...
Jun 17 2008 9:57PM
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-dva-
Posts: 1530 - Karma: 23

hahahahaha.  you are quite funny.

Jun 17 2008 10:05PM
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Shpadoinkle
Posts: 10437 - Karma: 84

Nope, I'm Leia.

Jun 17 2008 10:15PM
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Ryno
Posts: 31125 - Karma: 336
Dark Leia...

I shotgun Yoda!
Jun 17 2008 10:19PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
the force is strong in this one....
Jun 17 2008 10:23PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
o, and before he gets called, I TO BE  LUKE!  :)

Jun 17 2008 10:24PM
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meggles
Posts: 3156 - Karma: 54
Okay, to all the people saying "Just walk" or "just ride a bike"..I would get killed if I tried to walk or ride my bike to the grocery store or even my school. No exaggeration, it's happening around here more and more. Where I live, you honestly don't have much of a choice but to drive a car to get around. Either that or drive a tractor.
Jun 17 2008 10:30PM
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Shpadoinkle
Posts: 10437 - Karma: 84
Hey, bro.
Jun 17 2008 10:47PM
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mophead
Posts: 1172 - Karma: 309
The amount of intelligence that has been displayed in this thread is frightening.

Drilling for oil in the United States would be fucking stupid. It would only be a waste of resources to build an oil drill because there isn't enough oil to even matter. It would only be a  temporary solution to the problem, and being the oilaholics that we are, it wouldn't even last 5 years. A lot more money should be spent on researching an alternative fuel so we can get completely out of this shit hole, end of story.
Jun 17 2008 10:50PM
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Shpadoinkle
Posts: 10437 - Karma: 84

So should be keep relying on foreign oil?

Jun 17 2008 10:53PM
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bermbuster49
Posts: 7445 - Karma: 90
hahah i just glanced over this and noticed that about 20 kids posted thier cutting edge theories about how drilling in the US will only be a temporary fix.  obviously, if you want to think about it that way then OIL, is a temporary fix because its not renewable(well..it is but...)

personally i think we should be looking more into ethanol, some kids on the SRT forum are trying to convert thier car to run it, its pretty straight forward i guess. its got a higher octane reading which is awesome, but they are running into bugs with the PCM.  anyone want to spread some light on the downfalls of ethanol?
Jun 17 2008 11:06PM
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