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March, 2024

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Guns

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John.
Posts: 1327 - Karma: 11
There were a few people walking around today with these shirts advocating the legalization of concealed firearms on college campuses. Just curious what everyone thinks about that?

Here's the website:http://concealedcampus.org/

There are some interesting arguments both ways....
Apr 22 2008 4:04AM
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Shpadoinkle
Posts: 10437 - Karma: 84
Sorry, but if someone is coming at me or my family with a gun or knife I'm going to try and take them out any way possible. If you are trying to kill someone then you don't deserve to breathe oxygen again.
Apr 22 2008 11:10PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
lets be friends, ok?  

you seriously typed, almost word for word what i said in another thread on guns. 
Apr 22 2008 11:13PM
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Shpadoinkle
Posts: 10437 - Karma: 84
HAHA! I just saw that.

Seriously, I'm a chick. I'm not petite though. I'm tall and muscular, but I'm sure that someone could take me down - except Dumont.
Apr 22 2008 11:30PM
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coolhandluke
Posts: 4465 - Karma: 153
question: what percentage of firearm related crimes are committed by a citizen with a concealed carry permit and a legally purchased handgun?
Apr 22 2008 11:48PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
i hope my post didnt come off as to say, "you are helpless against a dude".  

i didnt mean it that way at all.  
  truth be told im no line backer either. i wouldnt like my chances in a fight with some, nut carrying a knife.  

haha, have you actually met dumont?  i have read that he is a super small guy.  



Apr 22 2008 11:50PM
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Love_Wins.
Posts: 5536 - Karma: -1
You're asking me to prove a statistic wrong when I ask for the source? Yeah, you made that up on the spot, it's painfully obvious.

I can however, if you'd like...point you to an entire archive of legitimate, documented stories of armed citizens using firearms to defend their property, their families, and their own lives.

Again I say, be realistic. How many 90 year old women attempt to stab or shoot people? None.

Imagine walking home after a light-night class through a back area and stumbling upon two guys mugging and possibly raping a girl...I think I'd like to have a gun in that situation, for my own safety and to defend her.
And you might be right, that may never happen, there may never be a moment on campus where I need a weapon to defend myself, but I can assure you that someone, sometime, somewhere will have that need, and if it happens to me, I'd rather be prepared for it.

The point is that the people who are going to bother to get the permit and carry a weapon within the bounds of the law aren't the dangerous ones.

Thomas Jefferson said it well when speaking of gun control:
"They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailant"
Apr 23 2008 4:55AM
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KRASHED
Posts: 7803 - Karma: 466
You guys have got to think a little bit here. If everyone now has the chance to carry a firearm most of the scenarios you are talking about can now involve at least gun and who nows how many you can't see.

There's scenario with someone attacking you with a knife. Chances are if that guy can get a FFA and a concealment license he's gonna come at you with a gun not a knife. Great now there's two people pointing guns at each others heads! I hope that ends well. Or what about the people that don't carry guns, if someone comes at them with a knife they could run, if they come with a gun good fucking luck.

All i'm saying is that if guns became legal on campuses you may see the rate of petty and small crimes decreased but the instances of armed crimes would sky rocket. You can already use America in general as a statistic for that.
Apr 23 2008 6:57AM
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coolhandluke
Posts: 4465 - Karma: 153
ive been jumped by 5 fuckers in my own doorway while my left arm was in a cast.  sorry i was too much of a pussy to defend myself.

i don't carry very much (do have CCL) but i would hope that grip and rip would be the only steps i would have to go to (and not 2 chest, 2 head, 2 pelvis). 

most law-abiding citizens with legally purchased firearms and CCLs are aware of the legal ramifications as well.  just unconcealing your firearm is a crime unless 100% justifiable.  pulling the trigger means your firearm will be confiscated and your ass run through the legal ringer.  some of us sit on our ass all day at work and don't have time to be in the gym getting all jacked for a fight.  its a last resort before your own death or bodily harm. 
Apr 23 2008 9:55AM
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Shpadoinkle
Posts: 10437 - Karma: 84
No, not at all. You were absolutely right.

A guy against a chick in a fight? I wonder who would win.

Yes, I have met him and he is like 5'3" tops without boots and a helmet on.
Apr 23 2008 11:42AM
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Shpadoinkle
Posts: 10437 - Karma: 84
Right on!
Apr 23 2008 11:57AM
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Love_Wins.
Posts: 5536 - Karma: -1
While your fun little hypothetical scenarios are interesting...they are just that, hypothetical scenarios. The fact is you don't know who will attack whom, with what weapon, at any given time.

And while I'll agree with your PTSD point, the solid fact is that guns are hardly the cause of PTSD...there are numerous other factors and situations that can cause it.

There were over 13,000 alcohol related vehicular deaths in 2006...it's perfectly acceptable to surmise that those drivers, after realizing they'd killed a person, or perhaps an entire family because of their drunk driving have suffered PTSD. So what are we to do? Outlaw vehicles and alcohol? Yes, that's the answer! Since those two thing (even independently) have the potential to be harmful and dangerous, should we take care of that potential by making laws against them? No.
The primary purpose of those things it not harm, it is enjoyment.
Sport shooting (and yes, that includes handgun sport shooting) is just like any other sport, football, baseball, car racing, skiing, etc. Every one of those has dangers inherent with it...how many sports related injuries are there every year just in the high-school level? Yet we see no need to outlaw those activities.

The points you're using to argue against firearms are the same arguments I could make fit nearly anything...the gun control we have in place now is perfectly sufficient, and saying that guns, or handguns in particular have no purpose other than the killing of another human being is not only false, but it's also completely ignorant.
Apr 23 2008 5:44PM
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Pman13a
Posts: 3800 - Karma: 451
do you think that maybe its because civilians aren't aloud to carry guns around with them, however the nut jobs who go on shooting sprees carry loaded and concealed guns against the law.  How can a civilian stop a shooting spree using a gun if he or she is not aloud to carry one?
Apr 23 2008 6:17PM
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coolhandluke
Posts: 4465 - Karma: 153
fromyourstruly:  forget what happened at the church in Colorado Springs this past December?  that's merely the most recent one.

pman13a: you're simply misinformed/uneducated about the laws in america.  please research "concealed carry" before posting again, thanks.

this is from an opinion page on fox news, so go ahead and pre-judge, but at least you'll have heard one side's viewpoint on this issue: link

here's a multitude of true stories where a private citizen has prevented a crime using a personal firearm.  strangely, its the NRA cataloging these events and not the Brady Campaign.  link


Apr 23 2008 7:11PM
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nashbuck
Posts: 2723 - Karma: 39
to klaso i think it was. you would proll not need to drop all 5 of the guys. one or two would suffice. he pulls his gun and takes out one or two with a couple of shots you think the other guys are gonna stick around. they are gonna fuckin run their asses off. you wanna talk about not being able to defend yourself think about the 5 guys that jump one. take out two in a second or two and the remaining ones will not want to stick around.
Apr 23 2008 7:17PM
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skifree919
Posts: 5842 - Karma: 35
I go to dartmouth college, and yea i misread that second part so disregard it. But, if guns were allowed on campus in the parties here, I could only see bad things happening and honestly no benefits. I can't think of any dangerous crimes that have occured here because it is a very small, safe town with no bad neighborhoods. The only thing I could see happening is fake hard guys flashing who are blacked out starting fihgts and somehow pulling the gun and even if they don't shoot it, its still not cool.

Also, from a legal standpoint, wouldn't it be up to the college whether or not to allow guns on campus? Maybe not for the public schools, but for the private schools Im not sure how it would work. 

Apr 23 2008 7:30PM
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coolhandluke
Posts: 4465 - Karma: 153
^ on that event......i did see them coming i was walking home

they were hanging out near the entrance of my 10-unit condo complex (all college students).  they obviously didn't belong there but the local PD has a problem with profiling.  they started walking behind me and sped up quickly as i got on my porch.  i turned and we had a confrontation on my porch/doorway (door was open).  i had literally just broken my arm about 10 days prior (check my pics for the fun xray) and was all casted up.  the verbal confrontation didn't sound fair to me (they wanted to come inside and take all our stuff) so i turned up the volume hoping to arise the neighbors (my roommates were not home).  one of them grabbed my cast and twisted my arm (that fucking hurt) so i reached and grabbed the first thing (his neck) and we both went down with our awkward grapple.  next fun memory was getting kicked in the head by 5 dudes until my neighbors got off their butts and saved my ass.  i was able to call 911 while being kicked in the head (i would really like to hear that 911 tape).  the wonders of the california 911 system results in a call center in sacramento (i was in the south bay).  police eventually come while the dudes are down the street.  everyone points at them but the officer wants to hear the whole story before he goes on a chase.  thanks.  they leave in a car never to be found.  police close the case a year later without telling me.  awesome. 

i could not carry at that time because i was;
under 21.  illegal to own let alone carry.
in california.  almost impossible to get a CCL unless ex-LE, celebrity, or know the county sheriff. 
in college. irresponsible to keep a firearm at a college party house.
high on pain meds. irresponsible to carry a firearm when on drugs or drinking.

had those four factors not been there;
shit would've gotten ugly fast.  all my relatives are ex-military, ex-police, ex-FBI (i'm the black sheep who hasn't served) and ive gone to some "refresher" courses with them.  strangely a semi-often scenario/drill was multiple BGs and a doorway.
Apr 23 2008 7:39PM
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KRASHED
Posts: 7803 - Karma: 466
American is ranked 8th in the world for violent gun crimes.

But I think we're swaying a bit off topic, even if you believe having handguns in society is all well and good it does not belong in university.
Apr 23 2008 8:13PM
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StanMcStanson
Posts: 2772 - Karma: 1
So many fights and shit go down with people who only have access to their fists and knives...imagine how much more potent those fights become when both people are carrying a handgun.  Instead of someone getting the shit kicked out of them, someone gets killed.  I know that there is a certain need for protection after Vtech, but just get armed guards or something.  Having everyone on campus carry a handgun is just asking for pointless deaths.
Apr 23 2008 8:16PM
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Scolson
Posts: 2904 - Karma: 92
But a firearm would certainly help my chanced greatly.  In fact just having out will scare most anyone off, and if you're actually firing not many people are going to keep rushing you.  It might make them mad?  So if someone is attacking you you should immediately lie down and yell "do what you want!  im not going to fight because you might get mad!"?? sure.


Now right now I haven't figured out which side of the arguement I stand on, both sides have points.  I do think there should be more gun control, but it's a pretty slippery slope.  I am also a gun owner and have been around and shot them all my life.  I just wanted to chime in to say your arguement is pretty rediculous.


Also I want to say props to everyone for keeping this a pretty civil discussion so far.
Apr 23 2008 8:27PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
can i have you for a neighbor?  please?  

if these people play with fire(crime) they (the criminals) better be ready to get burned(shot).

go look at what went down in chicago this last weekend, i dont remember the exact number, but something like 8 people ended up DEAD (not criminals, normal people)  and chicago has one of the "best" gun restriction laws
(meaning they take the guns out of good peoples hands, and let only criminals have them)
Apr 23 2008 8:28PM
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Scolson
Posts: 2904 - Karma: 92
I disagree.  The reason these people are able kill so many people at one time is so many poeple grouped together with absolutely no means to defend themselves.
Apr 23 2008 8:38PM
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StanMcStanson
Posts: 2772 - Karma: 1
Agreed.  If a person is running around rampant and killing people, but one of the onlookers has a gun...no matter what ends up happening, things would definitely not turn out the same way.  Self-defense is justified in a situation like that, and is often the necessary course of action.  But I still think that guns on a school campus would end more lives than they are saving in cases like vtech.
Apr 23 2008 8:41PM
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coolhandluke
Posts: 4465 - Karma: 153
to quote from the linked opinion page i posted:

Just like attacks last year at the Westroads Mall in Omaha, Neb., or Trolley Square Mall in Salt Lake City or the recent attack at the Tinley Park Mall in Illinois or all the public schools attacks, all these cases had one thing in common: They took place in “gun free zones,” where private citizens were not allowed to carry their guns with them.
Apr 23 2008 8:44PM
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coolhandluke
Posts: 4465 - Karma: 153
sure......if you agree to break up the minnesota/wisconsin/iowa regionals

haha
Apr 23 2008 8:45PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
NEVER!

i will take my chances, with all the nut jobs in the world,  but you NEVER break up our regionals!


haha
Apr 23 2008 8:47PM
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Scott~
Posts: 2551 - Karma: 49
I carry a nine in my pants all day. No really, I do.
Apr 23 2008 9:07PM
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Shpadoinkle
Posts: 10437 - Karma: 84
The reason why America is rated so high in violence is because there are too many violent people, but why should my right to carry a firearm be taken away because a bunch of assholes are being well assholes. I want to protect myself from these dumb ass people. I'm not going to fucking rely on the government to protect me.
Apr 24 2008 12:07PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
exactly!  

Nine people were killed in 36 shootings last weekend, one of Chicago's first spring-like stretches of weather this year.

One man died and three others were wounded, including one of the alleged offenders, in shootings that took place late Monday in a South Side McDonald's restaurant parking lot.

The recent violence followed a six-month period during which more than 20 Chicago public school students were shot to death.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,352362,00.html



i would wager a big big bet, that these crimes were perpitrated with guns that were not legal. 

taking away guns, only takes them away from good people.


Apr 24 2008 12:18PM
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Shpadoinkle
Posts: 10437 - Karma: 84
Uh Oh! Don't post anything form FOX News on here. They don't think FOX news is a good news source on here.

Did you hear about the guy in Texas? He was watching his neighbors house and two illegal Mexican immigrants broke into the house. He killed one and injured one pretty badly I think. People in the neighborhood were pretty proud of him.
Apr 24 2008 12:36PM
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coolhandluke
Posts: 4465 - Karma: 153
^ too bad no one caught this mexican in the act
Apr 24 2008 12:39PM
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Shpadoinkle
Posts: 10437 - Karma: 84
Ummm, in fact he did.
Apr 24 2008 12:42PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
ahhhhhhhhh  more fox news links,  is this dick chenney?    get off NS dick chenney!    

you must be dick chenney, o wait, i think they traced this connection, i hear a helicopter, HELP ME! 



the following post was reeking of sarcasm.
Apr 24 2008 12:53PM
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Shpadoinkle
Posts: 10437 - Karma: 84
HAHAHA! Don't make me laugh! I'm in a Starbucks.
Apr 24 2008 12:57PM
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coolhandluke
Posts: 4465 - Karma: 153
as i understood the story, secret service only knew it was him from reviewing security footage and they questioned him in the airport but he used diplo-immunity to board the plane.



think of how much sensitive information could be acquired from stealing those blackberrys. 

there's a reason the third geneva convention doesn't require spies to be treated as POWs. 

catching him "in the act" could have led to a quicker ending to this story.
Apr 24 2008 1:00PM
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Shpadoinkle
Posts: 10437 - Karma: 84
Ya, that must be a different story.
Apr 24 2008 1:06PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
starbucks, why would you want to hang out with all those liberal elitists?   (jokes)

go to a kwick trip (gas station) and get yourself a real drink, 54oz MTN Dew!  
Apr 24 2008 1:09PM
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whattheshit
Posts: 6562 - Karma: 107
drugs and guns don't mix.    only student patrol or security should be able to have cw.  only when student patrol are on duty, but it won't matter for security because its not like they hang around the campus on their days off anyways.  thats as far as it should go.
Apr 24 2008 1:10PM
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Shpadoinkle
Posts: 10437 - Karma: 84
OMG! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA!

It's the only place that has WiFi in my town. I had to. My boyfriend wouldn't be too happy though since he's from Seattle, LOL.
Apr 24 2008 1:38PM
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jibsworth
Posts: 1554 - Karma: 12
Well said, I couldn't agree more.
Jul 22 2008 7:37AM
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tommihq
Posts: 905 - Karma: 11
The problem is  that there are already too many guns in the first place in USA. They cant be taken anymore away from the law-abiding citizens because there are still going to be so many guns with the criminals. This problem should have been thought of about 100 years ago.

Not really related to college gun carrying but more to the whole country.
Jul 22 2008 9:11AM
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Twinjibber77
Posts: 6239 - Karma: 2,356
Virginia Tech in mind, yeah its constitutional, an with mega background checks it should be cool
Jul 22 2008 9:49AM
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Pipe_Munky
Posts: 10887 - Karma: 2,165
 ...we could kill all the ignorant pieces of shit like you!


but then again, guns are for pussies. we'd come after you with bats!
Jul 22 2008 10:25AM
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PhaedeD
Posts: 11498 - Karma: 327
no guns on school campuses but guns everywhere else fo sho. i love guns and own many. hate all u want u super liberals but its true guns dont kill people people kill people. ya guns help but if we didnt have guns people could easily just make bombs to kill people haha like drive by bombings in the hood just roll through and toss out some dynamite.
Jul 22 2008 1:52PM
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Elg
Posts: 2998 - Karma: 3,880
I don't get why you have to walk around with a gun, or even keep one at your house. When a bad guy knows people are carrying guns, don't you think he will carry one too? Imagine a total weapon free country, with only police officers and that kind of people being allowed to have them. Then lets say a thief trying to rob you on the street wont need something as powerfull as a gun to do it. My point is, when everyone carries guns, people will always want to have something more powerful then what others have.

In my country patroling officers don't carry guns. They have them in their cars, but not on their belts. A few years ago, they did carry guns, but back then the amount of sivilians carrying guns was several times higher then the amount that do today.

Let the cops do your shooting, it's their job.

And being allowed to keep a gun on campus has to be the one of the stupidest suggestions i've ever heard. Having drunk students running around with guns just sounds like a bad scenario to me.





Jul 22 2008 7:31PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
ummm........  "if the government outlawed guns, outlaws would be the only ones with guns". (haha i think this is a quote from andy )


go look into the crime in DC and Chicago, (2 of the strictest gun laws in the country)


point is, when you disarm a society, the only people you are disarming is law abiding citizens, because the very definition of an "outlaw" is a person who doesnt follow the law!
Jul 22 2008 8:49PM
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k-rob
Posts: 14217 - Karma: 2,891
qft.
Jul 22 2008 8:51PM
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tommihq
Posts: 905 - Karma: 11
Thats the case only in USA due to the huge amount of guns there nowadays. And yeah i know that were talking about the States but any way
Jul 22 2008 9:06PM
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Reed.S
Posts: 1126 - Karma: 10
hey guess what...i have a gun
Jul 22 2008 9:24PM
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