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Sugarbush Rant.

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lushlaxstr
Posts: 3063 - Karma: 41
so today the harwood freeride team hosted a rail jam, in the past they have been good, lots of rails and features to hit. but today there was three boxes (2 C boxes and a rollercoaster) NO RAILS. yeah thats right, no rails at a rail jam. and do you know why? because sugarbush sucks balls. sugarbush has NEVER been 'park friendly' because there isnt money in it. believe it or not the only thing sugarbush cares about is money. and the reason it doesnt make money, because its not popular at sugarbush, becasue their park sucks, becasue they put no money into it. so fuck sugarbush for being sellouts and loving money and not the sport, fuck Win Smith for not supporting freeride comps, or the park. i DO have to say, i have been to a couple rail jams in the past and dispite the lack of features, there was the most talent there that i have ever seen at harwoods rail jams. good job everybody!
Jan 21 2008 7:24PM
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killabees
Posts: 8558 - Karma: 494
YAH!!! go get em tiger!!!
how are you expecting us to respond?
Jan 21 2008 7:27PM
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steezyjibber
Posts: 15967 - Karma: 11,016
go to bolton valley
Jan 21 2008 7:32PM
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t_rob
Posts: 6433 - Karma: 11,458
ironically they sponsor queen city sessions.
Jan 21 2008 7:42PM
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Bugarshush
Posts: 31 - Karma: 20
yo man, i feel you on this. i've been having conversations with the park staff for about a week now (ive also had past conversations with win smith about the park). trust me, they are trying to get shit going, but the biggest problem is real estate. they are having a hard time getting beginner trails to put towards the park. yes this does entail catering more to the old season pass holders than to us park rats, but thats the way shit goes, money runs this entire world. but instead of riding "fuck this fuck that" on newschoolers, email the park staff, email win smith, and let them know what you feel. because you are the one that is going to change this not a newschoolers forum post. i cant believe i am actually defending the park because i will be honest it is pure bullshit right now, but all im saying is youre doing it in the wrong. win smith will listen, so will the park staff; they're all chill dudes, and its not their fault, but if you can voice your concern well enough to them, as well as all your friends, then shit will change. im with you man, but you just have to do it in a better way.
Jan 22 2008 5:38PM
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ski8990
Posts: 5961 - Karma: 19
Yeah they totally just dont care about park and put no money into it! Thats why they had 30 new boxes and rails made last year, right? Just cause they are struggling a little this year doesnt mean they don't care. If you are going complain about something, complain about the fact that they wasted all that trail space and snowmaking in order to build a halfpipe which about 20 people will get more than 2 feet out of all year.
Jan 22 2008 5:47PM
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Microcosm
Posts: 4765 - Karma: 153
I hear you on this one. at the risk of getting bitched out by I'm sure a lot of kids here who can kill it in the pipe why bother putting in 20' pipes when most people are riding the walls? actually, a better alternative would be one regular pipe and one small one.
Jan 22 2008 6:40PM
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ztragnoB
Posts: 1704 - Karma: 27
I was there and i agree, two 10 foot C-boxes and a rollercoaster box was sort of boring. The judging sucked though, the kid who came in 2nd was dominating all day and didn't even get into finals until someone stepped down for him. They had some sick looking stuff right down the hill by that shed, which would have been dope.
But it was real fun for a box jam, the vibe there was sick as hell, everyone had fun and not one person didn't kill it.
Jan 22 2008 6:53PM
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tBatt
Posts: 9632 - Karma: 580
you think thats bad?
heres our rail jam setup
-option of a 10 ft battleship rail or 8 ft flat down rail
-16 ft flat box

3 runs/person and your judged on your top 2.

first place prize- a pair of 150 elan all mtn carve skis.
Jan 22 2008 7:00PM
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Sugarbush-Resort
Posts: 76 - Karma: 24
Interesting thread Lushlaxstr............actually I think it is ridiculous and completely uninformed.
How might I know this?  Well my name is Win Smith, and I work at Sugarbush and have been skiing there since 1984.  My father, Win Smith, who is the owner and operator of the resort has been skiing there since the late 60's.  I find it intersting that you feel the need to rant over an online blog about the culture and finances of Sugarbush Resort since you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.
I have an idea though........I sent you a personal note too but now I am calling you out publicly.  My email address is wsmith3@sugarbush.com.  I want you to email me so we can find time to meet face to face and discuss your "concerns and ideas".  You must have a lot of recreation management experience and are well skilled in finance because you state things so matter of factly.
Email me and we will find time to meet.  I welcome the opportunity to put a face to a name....the only question is can you step up?
Also, I take great offense at you insulting my father and what he and all of us at Sugarbush have done over the past 7 years.  It's easy to talk trash over the computer, but can you handle meeting me and looking into my eyes with that attitude?
Jan 25 2008 10:52AM
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lushlaxstr
Posts: 3063 - Karma: 41
^Nope^












/End Rant/
Jan 25 2008 6:00PM
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twix_182
Posts: 9248 - Karma: 27
PA...UNKLE JED.....GIT OUT YER RIFELZ. THERE BE ONE HELL OF A HOOTINANY GON' DOWN!
Jan 25 2008 6:08PM
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sktrkdo7
Posts: 1920 - Karma: 182
wow man you are a pussy its not like the guys gonna kick your ass or anything if you are genuinely concerned about wat happens at your mountain and some guy wicked high up is offering to meet with you should be delighted with that oppourtunity, even if you bitched him out say it was a mistake and you were just in the heat of the moment man u are a huge pussy this makes me like newschoolers a little less sad really
Jan 25 2008 7:19PM
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VT_scratch
Posts: 8710 - Karma: 5,615
indeed. 
Jan 25 2008 7:47PM
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skiEER
Posts: 4089 - Karma: 79
if you feel that strong have the balls to meet up with him
Jan 25 2008 8:25PM
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Hannah.
Posts: 4625 - Karma: 56
hell the fuck no
Jan 25 2008 9:16PM
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3peaks
Posts: 15 - Karma: 11
hello win smith,

I'm not sure if you can answer all my questions, but I'd like to know why there is no longer a superpipe where it used to be about 3 years ago right infront of the lodge at north. The pipe was really nice, fun and pretty big. Is it not there because of space? or insurance reasons for the mountain? Sugarbush is in the top like 4 big mountains in the east out of okemo killington mount snow stratton and what not. They all have pretty nice parks especially okemo, and i think that sugarbush is a little better then those mountains in terms of riding,snow, and woods. but the park scene at okemo mount snow killington and statton is above sugarbush in terms of park(s). I know that sugarbush can make an ill park, they have really nice rails boxes and also the wall rides. Why not put as many features up as possible logically and with out over crowding the trail. Is the park crew understaffed? Many mountains in the east and out west that have a nice park get more people, mainly teenagers to come and ride there, word gets around and more and more people come. If sugarbush steps it up which i think they can, they will get some recognition. Also i think that my friend who's under the name bugarshush has met with your dad before or talked on the phone about it, but we both enjoy skiing at sugarbush and would really like to be able to ride a nice park and tell people yea sugarbush has an ill park go check it out. instead of yeahhhhhh the park there is ehhhh alright. I'm sure it takes some hard work to make a nice park and I give credit to the park crew.
Jan 28 2008 12:12PM
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beer.
Posts: 3096 - Karma: 44
win smith--

although I think its cool that you are willing to meet with him, you really come off as kind of a douche.  this is his opinion and hes entitled to it, and he can rant all he wants on the fucking internet.

on a side note last time i was at sugarbush your park did in fact suck balls
Jan 28 2008 12:21PM
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steezyjibber
Posts: 15967 - Karma: 11,016
WHY NOT
Jan 28 2008 3:57PM
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RobotTom
Posts: 544 - Karma: 21
If the bush builds an ill park they will get more burlington area college kids.  at uvm the freestyle teams practice at stowe, therefore everyone thinks stowe has the sick park, therefore most freestylers or people who want to ski freestyle terrain buy a stowe pass freshman year and stick with stowe all 4 years.  build a sick park and plan on getting a ton of people for the burlington area. 
Jan 29 2008 8:47AM
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Sugarbush-Resort
Posts: 76 - Karma: 24
We haven't built a superpipe in a while because we find that the larger pipe gets less use because not enough people can ride it properly.  Sort of like when we build 65 booters and then eveyrone complains that they are too big and intimidating.  To be honest though, these questions would be more suited to the park & pipe crew since I am not on that team.
The park manager is named Nate Burnor and if you call up Sugarbush you can get to his voicemail.  Give him a shout.

Jan 29 2008 10:28AM
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mski
Posts: 4791 - Karma: 3,803
what really needs to be talked about is the way rails are set up. last year you had the front of each rail feature sticking out about 3 to 6 inches over the take off onto it. Thats not urban if you were trying to go for that...its just dangerous. And if you want your park to be successfull make it have flow....in the sense of jump rail jump rail ....or even mix that up. Dont have just a jump section and a rail section. I would rather be able to cruise through a park hitting lots of different things that flow well enough so that speed is not to much of an issue. The fact that your park is long and accessed by a chairlift makes it the bomb area for a sick slopestyle park. just tell them to think flow. Your jump line last spring was awesome, but the rail area was so cluttered and not properly set-up. Thats honestly why i didnt come back this year.  
Jan 29 2008 11:41AM
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fappy
Posts: 2960 - Karma: 15
haha what a pussy ass callout
Jan 29 2008 12:40PM
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Benedetto.
Posts: 2526 - Karma: 64
lux is a fucking pussy lmfao!
Jan 29 2008 1:03PM
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[tightpants]
Posts: 1529 - Karma: 17
Man I wish I could talk to the management of my hill over NS... I would have so many questions about why they do what they do in the park
Jan 29 2008 2:52PM
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3peaks
Posts: 15 - Karma: 11
The jump line was nice last year, but the only problem I thought was it was one jump, then two jumps next to eachother, then another one jump set up. So when you landed you had to turn to the next jump instead of that make 3, 4 or 5 jumps in a straight line. Nice little rhythm line.
Jan 29 2008 3:17PM
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.makuma.
Posts: 2258 - Karma: 43
i also hate sugarbush..i went a few years ago and the people are assholes and its expensive
Jan 29 2008 5:09PM
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no_steeze_in_NY
Posts: 225 - Karma: 13

yea, that lift does suck, you think theyd do something

i think sugarbush has some great riding and really nice glades, but it can be a serious tourist magnet and the new clay brook just pisses me off every time i go to lincoln peak, i normally go to mt ellen.
theyre park isnt terrible, but it could definitely be better

Jan 29 2008 5:26PM
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TulipSniper
Posts: 64 - Karma: 10
Win smith, idc which ones reads this


Your park did in fact, suck balls
Jan 30 2008 1:56AM
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3peaks
Posts: 15 - Karma: 11
Top 4 or so in terms of size, mad river isn't really huge but pretty much one of the sickest mountains around from what they have been doing for years. Big mountain = you should have some good money coming in to help the park.
Jan 30 2008 10:11AM
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feated
Posts: 1 - Karma: 10
stowebum is a dooshfuck.  ur pretty much bugging and destroying your credibility by listing whiteface shmeeg clown.  i mean yea i ride whiteface and we pretty much own the place, but i gotta say it sucks.  good freeriding days are very rare and the park is probably worse than the herpes on your dick.  they just opened the pipe and the shit looks like a 4 years olds art class doodle.  you need to learn, and chill with dropping hate.  and i apologize about my rant.  much love babygirl.
Jan 30 2008 11:11AM
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Sugarbush-Resort
Posts: 76 - Karma: 24
Stowebum,
You are entitled to your opinions about Sugarbush, although obviously I diagree.  When you talk about uphill capacity you are wrong though.  Sugarbush has by far the most uphill capacity of any resort in northern VT.  Here are the facts on lift capacity (how many people we can move around per hour):

Sugarbush Resort:  25,463   (16 lifts, 5 hi-speed quads)
Jay Peak:  12,175      (8 lifts and 1 tram)  
Mad River Glen:  3,574    (3 lifts and their main lift is a single chair)
Bolton Valley:  6,000    (6 lifts, no hi-speed quads)
Stowe:  15,750     (13 lifts, 3 hi-speed quads)

We have some many lifts and quads that the lift lines are not bad at all.  I have been skiing here for 24 years and given the amount of terrain (4,000 acres......no body can touch that amount of space in the area) I have always found the lift lines to be fine.  We have almost the same upward capacity as Jay Peak and Stowe COMBINED.  That is impressive.
These facts are taken from each resort's website.  

Oh yeah, Sugarbush has also had the longest season in VT the past 2 years and last season we skied until May 6!  


Jan 31 2008 10:40AM
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Sugarbush-Resort
Posts: 76 - Karma: 24
OK, I can't argue with your experience if that's what you feel.  The way our lifts are set up most of the quads are staggered so you can get to most parts of the resort without having to go to the base.
Maybe you have been at Sugarbush on holidays when we have the largest crowds, but if that is the case than all resorts have issues.  
We have actually conducted tests on busy weekend by sending people to various resorts to test the average lift lines at the base and found that we are shorter, on average, than most other major resorts.
It could also be that we have maintained great snow, more so than the others, the past few year so everyone wants a piece of it at the 'Bush!!  
Hopefully you will come back and have a better experience.....see you out there.
Jan 31 2008 11:07AM
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mothaeast
Posts: 2923 - Karma: 13
I'm not really attracted by Win's attitude on here. You're kind of being a dick. Not the best way to advertise you mountain. There are lots of kids on this website with a good deal of skiing experience, maybe not as much as you, but I assume more experience in new school skiing, which is the leading edge of the skiing industry if you didn't notice. If my father operated a ski resort I would look at some of the comments made on here, censor out the exaggerated claims and hates, because after all this is an online forum and people will say stuff they won't go through with (as seen in this thread).

You see this as criticism, but instead of writing it off as naive juvenile you should look at it as an opportunity to incorporate more elements to your mountain that are desired by kids these days. Advertisement through word of mouth is fast, effective, and free, especially on a website visited by thousands of kids with parents willing to bring them up to your mountain for a weekend and spend money on lodging, tickets, and food.

I'm surprised by your reaction, I would think being in your twenties you would be able to see more logic than you have proven, no offense.

Jan 31 2008 11:36AM
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Sugarbush-Resort
Posts: 76 - Karma: 24
Our parks are currently being re-worked as we speak and the crew is working hard to update the features and the flow. We have received some criticism recently as all notes have been passed along to the park crew. We constantly monitor threads like these to see what people truly think and try to work to make most people happy......although that is not easy. We have invested more money and people in the park the past few years, more than in recent memory so please understand that we do work hard to make the mountain fun, but can not always be all things to all people.
If I have come across as rude and abrasive, then I am sorry. Obviously I took the original content of the thread personally because of what it said. The other replies have been to answer questions and to provide facts about some of the things discussed. To be honest, I don't think my last few replies were harsh, but maybe my tone wasn't clear because it's a blog.
I think Sugarbush is unique in the fact that we actually take the time to contact people and answer questions in this type of forum. It takes a lot to keep a resort running and do appreciate feedback, although sometimes the language is a little off-color.
Well, I hope my intentions are more clear.........pray for more big dumps this winter!
Jan 31 2008 6:12PM
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Sugarbush-Resort
Posts: 76 - Karma: 24
Thanks homie. Much appreciated.

-Win
Jan 31 2008 7:27PM
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lushlaxstr
Posts: 3063 - Karma: 41
hes right! the lines are fine. i mean they are HUGE, but my friends and i just all go in the singles line and regroup right before we get on the lift, quick and speedy every time!
Jan 31 2008 11:40PM
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ski@jaypeak2
Posts: 2800 - Karma: 394
I have been residing in Burlington for 7 years now and have had passes to jay, stowe, sugarbush, bolton, and mad river...Last year i bought a Sugarbush pass and the park was good for the entire year, not fantastic but good...This year i decided to get the jay, bolton, mad river pass and i am thrilled with it, real skiing at jay and mrg and park at bolton...My only question to sugarbush resort or Win is why do resorts such as sugarbush, (and stowe and smuggs)  always use park footage as their main form of marketing?  Whenever I go to a ski show there is a park video playing or their is a skier doing a grab on the front of the trail map,  Or a poster of a boarder in the halfpipe....ALL MAJOR COMPANIES USE PARK IMAGES IN ALL OF THERE ADVERTISING YET DO NOTHING TO MAINTAIN IT!!  It strikes me as very weird that these resorts love to use us in there promotional pieces but when it comes time to set-up a flat rail to learn new tricks on there is not a single one in northern Vt?

I lied my second question is why are you on here fielding these questions and the head of your park crew is not?  NS should be his Bible, he should read it everynight before he goes to bed just like me
Feb 29 2008 6:48PM
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