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Zeitgeist

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IcePointa
Posts: 1879 - Karma: 19
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

Watch and discuss


There's a thread about it in the media section but no one ever goes in there..

https://www.newschoolers.com/web/forums/readthread/thread_id/310400/
Sep 16 2007 11:03PM
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t-roy
Posts: 4041 - Karma: 52
i watched it a week ago. very intense and controversial. really blows your mind. this should be a heated discussion..
Sep 16 2007 11:06PM
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UNREAL
Posts: 3989 - Karma: 23
yeah this is true, fucking insane movie. i find the last part kind of hard to beleive but i guess its possible
Sep 16 2007 11:09PM
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TheButterHashira
Posts: 9691 - Karma: 1,702
ive seen it. im not going to let it change what i believe though. im sure that parts are fact and others are not and the rest is kind of loosely related or true
Sep 16 2007 11:11PM
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t-roy
Posts: 4041 - Karma: 52
jesus = the sun
9/11 = planned attack by US leaders
george bush = hitler

a lot of the stuff in the movie i can believe, but a lot is also sketchy. one thing that i have no doubt in my mind is when they talk about world trade center #7.
Sep 16 2007 11:11PM
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Microcosm
Posts: 4765 - Karma: 153
for my threads
Sep 16 2007 11:13PM
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salomon097
Posts: 1345 - Karma: 301
i dotn beleive much of the stuff about jesus and the sun and shit. i know a little bit of history abotu christianity and they had some bogus facts
Sep 16 2007 11:14PM
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jayamait
Posts: 2567 - Karma: 1,347
this is incredible. it changed my whole perspective on a lot of things a while ago. but i suggest you look into the sources and find out for yourself. it is just a theory, but a very believeable one in my opinion, for not everything can be proved. the truth cannot be told, only realized.
Sep 16 2007 11:16PM
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fillup
Posts: 4904 - Karma: 568
was a thread about it

but yeah this is epic
Sep 16 2007 11:18PM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
I'm about 15 minutes in and he already blew the bit with religions. A good example being the reference to December 25th. The only reason "Christmas" falls on that date was so it could conform close to the winter solstice. It was a marketing tool for Christian missionaries trying to convert pagan Europe. His overview so far is a gross oversimplification of both religion and history. I'll keep watching.
Sep 16 2007 11:25PM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
40 minutes in, he grasps the idea that religions assimilate beliefs for use of social control, but the way in which he depicts it is far to simple. He seems to imply the assumption that of massive political conspiracies, negating the idea religions evolve greatly over long periods of time.
Sep 16 2007 11:46PM
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MLB
Posts: 4462 - Karma: 298
its ok, like its pretty intense, but again i find alot of their stuff ( yes i checked the sources) very sketchy as hell. Plus how the hell are you gonna get people watching this thing, when the first 5 mins of this movie is like taking an exam while having something shoved up your ass and listening to the most depressing music ever.

Like its just way way way way way way way way way too many facts to take in. Its like watching an argumentative essay, Like im still drawing my own opinions about it, but its not going to drasticly change the way i live. I like the way my life is going, like this movie did not change the things ( but in facted reinforced)i believe. Im still going to go to school, im still going to graduate, and im still going to try and have a family, own a house, and just live my life.

Like this will show alot of truths to ALOT of people. But i don't think its to the point where we will charge the walls of "the masters" to break down civillisation, and rebuild anew. We do have to remember, we built all this stuff up for our selves.
Sep 16 2007 11:49PM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
I'm into the 9/11 stuff right now. Very biased and vague so far (yeah, big surprise).
Sep 16 2007 11:52PM
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skiierman
Posts: 28699 - Karma: -5,563
Fun and interesting to watch but I can see you have already made the big mistake of taking it as truth.
Sep 16 2007 11:54PM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
Nowhere in the conspiracy stuff so far do they mention that terrorist organizations manipulated the stock market prior to the events of 9/11. They sold stocks prior to the fallout that was caused by the attacks, its insider trading on a global scale. For all of this hyperbole about conspiracies, I would think that would be worth mentioning. Why would they omit something that significant? Oh wait, that would require being impartial wouldn't it?
Sep 16 2007 11:59PM
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IcePointa
Posts: 1879 - Karma: 19
If there's something in the movie that you think is false, point it out and we can check sources.

Alot of it seemed unbelieveable to me, so i did some backround research. Every point I looked into checked out.

I would love for someone to disprove this to me.
Sep 17 2007 12:00AM
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skiierman
Posts: 28699 - Karma: -5,563
Haha not even Micheal Moore touched on that. Interesting isn't it? I'm reading a Tom Clancy book right now and that's what Japan does to set a temp. downfall in the American economy while strengthening theirs immensely. It's really large scale stuff that they're not willing to discuss because they don't want to show that the terrorists had ANY involvement in 9-11. The whole point is to say the gov. was behind it. Which is bullshit that takes away from the real stuff going down.
Sep 17 2007 12:03AM
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IcePointa
Posts: 1879 - Karma: 19
Obviously there are people, regardless of their motives, who knew about the attack before it happened. What point does this prove?

Infact this might be in the movie somewhere, or at least I've read about it elsewhere.
Sep 17 2007 12:03AM
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PeteyG
Posts: 2946 - Karma: 49
sounds interesting but im gonna watch it tommorow so i can be more ingaged
Sep 17 2007 12:07AM
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IcePointa
Posts: 1879 - Karma: 19
Assuming an equal probablity of terrorist vs government responsibility, what whould make it any more likely that the insider trading was carried out through links to a terrorist rather than say..a CIA agent?
Sep 17 2007 12:11AM
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skiierman
Posts: 28699 - Karma: -5,563
Because it'd be very noticeable if a CIA agent all of a sudden acquired a few million dollars days after the terrorist attacks. Think with your head.
Sep 17 2007 12:14AM
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IcePointa
Posts: 1879 - Karma: 19
I'd think a CIA agent would know how to launder money at least as well as a terrorist would...
Sep 17 2007 12:17AM
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MLB
Posts: 4462 - Karma: 298
were the guys who made this movie canadian? Like when they are talking on how they use the word terror all the time, they just show the Toronto Star.
Sep 17 2007 12:17AM
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MLB
Posts: 4462 - Karma: 298
ohh and CBC news.
Sep 17 2007 12:17AM
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skiierman
Posts: 28699 - Karma: -5,563
CIA agents are not running around unwatched... God damn it I'm not even going to try.
Sep 17 2007 12:17AM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
Isn't it obvious? If I were the government...and knew (even planed) what was going to happen, I would have done the same thing the terrorists did. I would manipulate taxes and government spending to create a fund just for investing in stocks and bonds. Then in the days prior to the attack, I would sell all of those stocks and bonds because I know they would be at their highest value. That is because the markets would all drop after 9/11. After I end up making shitloads of money after selling the now much less valuable assets, I could use that cash for any number of things...whether it be wiping debts and T-bills or simply reallocating government spending.
It's really quite simple. If the US had a massive conspiracy to create 9/11, they would be daft (nay, flat out STUPID) not to do something like that.
Sep 17 2007 12:18AM
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IcePointa
Posts: 1879 - Karma: 19
Just because you work for the government doesn't mean they moniter your personal communications outside of work. Or at least they don't claim to. How closely do you think the government really moniters the millions of government employees around?
Sep 17 2007 12:23AM
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mtbakerteacher
Posts: 4185 - Karma: 20
The only really important part of the whole movie is the 3rd section, and even if the government had nothing to do with the attacks, they still USED it for their own means.
The movie points out that the government had a repeating motive for allowing, provoking, or causing attacks upon U.S. soil just so they could plow through the uproar and get what they want.
Sep 17 2007 12:24AM
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IcePointa
Posts: 1879 - Karma: 19
The militry-industrial complex made BILLIONS of dollars off the Iraq war. Robbed from the taxes paid by the American people. That would have been a primary goal.

The fact that some people made about 5 million is chump change. Sounds like a rogue agent to me. 2.5 million was never even collected because the market closed for 4 days and when it reopened it was under scrutiny. Someone got scared of being exposed.
Sep 17 2007 12:27AM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
Well, they're talking about federal reserves now. The film makers have really jumped the shark here by demonstrating their limited knowledge of basic economics and how banks work. They also have no idea of how dramatically regulations have changed since the early twentieth century. I think I'm going to stop watching now.

The moral here should be "correlation does not imply causation."
Sep 17 2007 12:28AM
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Elijah.
Posts: 9322 - Karma: 76
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=af07
The only real internet movie that I'll ever believe.
Sep 17 2007 12:30AM
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IcePointa
Posts: 1879 - Karma: 19
Great point. Even if the attacks were not DIRECTLY carried out by the government, it certainly played right into their cards.

And an indirect link is almost certain. Bin Laden is afterall, a CIA asset. We trained him to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan with terrorist tactics.

Terrorist attacks have been happening since forever. This was just a nice dramatic one.
Sep 17 2007 12:32AM
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IcePointa
Posts: 1879 - Karma: 19
So explain to me how banks work differently than as described in the movie?
Sep 17 2007 12:33AM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
Pfft, oh yes. Can you also tell me how much the US Government has made because of this debacle?
Sep 17 2007 12:39AM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
*of
Sep 17 2007 12:39AM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
Goddamnit, sticky F key.

*off
Sep 17 2007 12:40AM
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IcePointa
Posts: 1879 - Karma: 19
No one cares if the government makes money. Look at our dandy little national debt. What people care about is how they can get the money collected by the government in the form of taxes into their own pockets.

The defense lobby is the largest in our country. They put all the resources they can muster into getting your tax dollars into their coffers. Then they take a portion of that money and make bombs to kill people with and steal oil. The rest goes into managements' bank account.
Sep 17 2007 12:45AM
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IcePointa
Posts: 1879 - Karma: 19
Yes, it's true. Our nation's largest industry profits directly from killing and oppressing foreign peoples.

Tell me that's not an incentive to enter into war on false pretexts. We've been in a constant state of war since at least WWII.

They gotta keep making war... how else are they going to justify the $450 BILLION dollars in taxes that the defense industry swindles from the american people every year.
Sep 17 2007 12:49AM
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mtbakerteacher
Posts: 4185 - Karma: 20
Did you watch the end? Prescott Bush, our current and former presidents father and grandfather, was the president of the "New York banking CO" or whatever it was named.
For WWII, FDR is from a line of NY bankers, and knew what was most profitable.

The GOVERNMENT isn't making money, the people in charge of the government is.
Sep 17 2007 12:54AM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
One example is the basic principle that the Federal Reserve is a back door for extorting money. Quite the opposite in practice. The Federal Reserve controls the flow of money so that banks are not able to lend out more of that money than the amount of capital that is at their disposal. Central banking controls the liquidity and value of notes and as a result stifles and dampens anomalies in the market. The film also fails to mention that The Act itself has been amended hundreds of times and is not something that was preconceived for exploitation (oversimplification and omission of "time" seems to be a running flaw in the film).
Sep 17 2007 1:04AM
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doublexl
Posts: 8407 - Karma: 26
i watched like the first 6 min. and decided i have better things to do.
Sep 17 2007 1:08AM
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mtbakerteacher
Posts: 4185 - Karma: 20
That's exactly the point. It CONTROLS the flow. Now while it can potentially help us greatly, and in general, it keeps our market very steady, it can ALSO, be VERY abused. And a main point is that, because of the federal reserve loaning us money at interest, we can never get out of debt without outside money coming in mass.
Sep 17 2007 1:12AM
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IcePointa
Posts: 1879 - Karma: 19
The federal reserve can print of as much money as they want, since our dollar is based on nothing more than it's perceived value. The gold standard has been abandoned.

They print of billions of dollars to pay of a war debt, for example. Inflation doesn't happen instantly, but eventually our money is worth less than it was before.

They print off 2 billion dollars to help lower interest rates... guess what, inflation goes up.

And the federal reserve charges interest on every dollar they print. So where exactly is your disagreement with the film? "The federal reserve is not a backdoor?" I'm not sure what you mean by this.

And how have the ammendmants to the ACT changed its original overall purposes?
Sep 17 2007 1:16AM
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IcePointa
Posts: 1879 - Karma: 19
Congratulations, go watch nascar and then vote for your american idol. Just please don't vote for president next year.
Sep 17 2007 1:18AM
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mtbakerteacher
Posts: 4185 - Karma: 20
Good form.
Sep 17 2007 1:19AM
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IcePointa
Posts: 1879 - Karma: 19
Anyone know of any active religious forums? I'd like to post this and see what kind of reception it gets. All of them I've found so far are pretty slow..
Sep 17 2007 2:24AM
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GnarBurger
Posts: 3215 - Karma: 43
exactly
Sep 17 2007 11:36AM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
Where are you getting those numbers? The government spends more on social resources than it does on current military. And what exactly does the national debt have to do with anything? Its largely an arbitrary figure anyway.

Yes, and the value of the dollar is not pegged to and floats on the market. And yes I know how inflation works, but the dollar's value does not necessarily decrease when more of it is printed. Being afloat in the market, it can go either up or down. It depends on growth more than anything. But again, I ask where you get those numbers, and where do you get the idea that a 9/11 conspiracy has any direct correlation with printing more money? Color me sceptic, but I'm just not buying it.

As for a religious forum, you might try BigPundit dot com. Though the people that go there are a bit older then the demographic the hangs around here. I'm not sure if they would bite or not.
Sep 17 2007 1:46PM
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MLB
Posts: 4462 - Karma: 298
the only thing that freaks the shit out of me, and is real for sure is the north american union, and that amero shit. Like i know us canadians are going to fight it to the bitter end ( hell paul martin who was going to impliment it is out of office, and Steven Harper has gone to say that the north west passage is CANADIAN waters).
Sep 17 2007 1:49PM
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skiierman
Posts: 28699 - Karma: -5,563
Yeah that stuff is scary to think about but in the end, I don't think much will change. We aren't going to become one country- that sort of deal. The U.S. and Canada are really good allies as it is and work together a lot. Not much will change, I think, BUT it could lead to something.
Sep 17 2007 1:52PM
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MLB
Posts: 4462 - Karma: 298
yeah, im not down with it. Im canadian, not american.....and the amero is fuckin gay as elton john. Honestly i like the looney, nothing wrong with it. Quebec is not going to fly at all with the north american union. Hell its already a country "within canada" ( i know a fuckin joke, but still). So in the end, i would think if the north american union would go down, quebec would seperate for sure. It would be the straw that breaks the cammel's back. So i think i would just move to quebec.
Sep 17 2007 2:06PM
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