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What do you think about Libertarians and their platforms?
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I seem to agree with a lot of things that libertarians promote, except for the extremist anti-immigration stance... but I want to see if I haven't missed anything.. Any more info would be cool!
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this is the type of this you gotta figure out for yourself.
anything anyone tells you on here will be with a (usually) extreme bias towards libertarians. just look up their national orgainzation website
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i've already done that, I'm just making sure I haven't missed anything or if I haven't looked at something in a certain way
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im a libertarian, and i voted for Micheal Badnarick (Libertarian canidate for president in 04). Im also involved in the colorado libertarian party. so if you have any questions.
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libertarians should unite and take over.
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i was raised by anti-marxism leftist liberitarians. and for a while i was opposed to it- but now after personally seeing how fucked up statist life is i am now too a libertarian.
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Well, i am slowly being convinced by a friend of mine who is registered republican but is libertarian at heart... What exactly is the libertarian's point of view on immigration, for it? against it? more control despite that it increases gov't? It seems really fuzzy
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The Issue: We welcome all refugees to our country and condemn the efforts of U.S. officials to create a new "Berlin Wall" which would keep them captive. We condemn the U.S. government's policy of barring those refugees from our country and preventing Americans from assisting their passage to help them escape tyranny or improve their economic prospects.
The Principle: We hold that human rights should not be denied or abridged on the basis of nationality. Undocumented non-citizens should not be denied the fundamental freedom to labor and to move about unmolested. Furthermore, immigration must not be restricted for reasons of race, religion, political creed, age or sexual preference. We oppose government welfare and resettlement payments to non-citizens just as we oppose government welfare payments to all other persons.
Solutions: We condemn massive roundups of Hispanic Americans and others by the federal government in its hunt for individuals not possessing required government documents. We strongly oppose all measures that punish employers who hire undocumented workers. Such measures repress free enterprise, harass workers, and systematically discourage employers from hiring Hispanics.
Transitional Action: We call for the elimination of all restrictions on immigration, the abolition of the Immigration and Naturalization Service and the Border Patrol, and a declaration of full amnesty for all people who have entered the country illegally.
i dont exactly like that last paragraph. But the point of it is that imagration laws hurt the free market in america.
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We have no obligations to the Mexican people or to people from any nation.
The whole stance is fucking rediculous. People from Mexico are not refugees. They are doing nothing more than exploiting our success and sending money back into Mexico. Fuck human rights, how about the citizens' rights? The rights of American citizens to have our nations laws enforced? How about the rights of all the LEGAL immigrants who worked hard and waited for many years to be able to live in the United States? How can a position even be taken that supports those who break the law over those who follow it? It is complete ludicrous. You want to solve the immigration problem? Levy heavy fines against any business that hires illegal immigrants. These businesses are breaking the law and in turn exploiting the cheap labor of desperate illegals to make a higher margin of profit for themselves. Enforce the immigration laws and these businesses will have to follow the rules that all other businesses abide by. This will not discourage the hiring of legal Hispanics but rather discourage the hiring of illegals. However, because of bullshit movements like the libertarians, socialists, liberals, and even right-wing big business, it has become increasinly difficult for the rational individuals to pass any kind of significant enforcement law. It is because of bullshit movements like these that America will someday fall, just as the Roman empire did. The death from a thousand cuts.
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Wrong. That was oppression of the CITIZENS. The citizens of Mexico have the right to stand up to the government of Mexico, not that of the United States because they have no right be here in the first place.
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i guess im libertarian. but im pro-death penalty and pro-abortion. so maybe not as much. more just pro-people dying
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As much as I agree with some of the libertarian ideals, that stance on immigration is complete bullshit. I agree with Sid_Vicious. ghandi and MLK were both citizens of a country that oppressed them. The mexicans who are here illegally in the US should put their efforts into fixing the problems in Mexico- stand up against the deep levels of corruption in their own government and take back Mexico for the people of Mexico instead of pulling the US economy down with them.
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So the oppression of people in general doesn't matter? They are standing up to US laws/systems/whatever that won't allow them to gain citizenship for 9 years, while their families starve. They shouldn't be allowed to do this?
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the US isn't oppressing the Mexicans, MEXICO IS! We can not be responsible for fixing the all of the worlds problems, and from what I understand about the Libertarian Party, the government should stay out of it- whether it is domestic or foriegn. The libertarian stance on immigration is blatently biased to helping people from another nation way more than it is for allowing a free market, which is against what most libertarians believe in.
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That is also not to say that I do not agree with some of the libertarian ideals. I agree with less government involvement in our daily lives, less taxes especially. Want to stimulate a free market? Get rid of all those fucking taxes. A significant part of the taxes Americans pay go to just supporting illegal mexicans within our nation who need schooling, healthcare, and other government services that should only be available to taxpaying citizens. Giving these services to illegal immigrants within our nation is a sign of our own incompetence. I also strongly agree with the libertarian stance on the dissolution of the welfare state. So all in all, some of their ideals are not completely unfounded but their position on immigration borders on the extremes of stupidity. And no more of these stupid analogies trying to connect the Berlin Wall and the need for border security into one. The Berlin Wall was the complete opposite, it was to keep people in.
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My family came here as immigrants from Chile and followed the immigration laws of the United States. They knew full well that it was a priviledge to be able to become U.S. citizens. Why should my family have had to wait while others just climb a fence?
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so, let's make this clear... you don't have to become a citizen to work in this country, you have to apply for a visa like any other european/asian/african/australian/mexican/etc... you get a green card (residential alien) and then you make yourself productive... my parents did this (they came from Argentina)
However, I think the problem is the ability of more improverished people to gain these green cards, to come to America. Which is why they resort to illegal residency. I don't believe that these illegal immigrants are entirely at fault but I think that there hasn't been a cohesive movement to establish a better system. Though this is also a concept of affirmative action, which I do not agree with because of heritage... but I haven't heard of anything better...everyone can make it in the US so long as they have the perceverance (ambition doesn't count cause anyone can dream).
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Applying and working under a green card is much different that working straight up illegally.
For one, the United States already lets in a large quantity of immigrants legally each year.
Secondly, the U.S. immigration department does not want to allow in people who are going to immediately fall below the poverty line, who have no skills, and who will probably end up working on farm fields or at a McDonald's. I have nothing against allowing Mexicans to live and work in the United States but lets allow in the ones who deserve it, those who have acquired a valuable skill or who are masters of a profession.
We already have enough unskilled labor in the United States, we do not need any more.
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we may have a lot of unskilled labor in the country but whose fault is that? its not the immigrants, its the stupid backwoods rednecks that are too lazy or fat... at least let immigrants get the work that they want, god knows that they really want it... besides, labor wages are WAY too high and they need to be pushed back down again, more supply=less demand=less money being paid out=better economy
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most libertarians are pro abortian
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and i am going to have to agree with Sid on the imagration thing, that stance is pretty messed up.
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i thought libertarians are for the elimination of border control, so what you are saying is that lets keep doing what we are already doing on the border but with more security (more bureaucracy)
... I'm really confused now
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A lot of libertarians believe that the governments only job should be to protect its citizens from outside dangers ex: the Army, Navy, Police, CIA
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that would be the end of the world
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