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Official Ski Pressing/Shaping/Building/Constructing Thread

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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,409
All of us have thought about building your own shit at one time or another, but how many of you actually have? This thread will be dedicated to those who actually build your own gear from scratch, surely there are some of you on NS. Now I can't contribute to this thread much because I've never built anything and I only have a small amount of time working with fiberglass, but would sure love to see some info from you dudes who actually do, whether you build in your basement, or for a living. So if you can legitimately contribute please do.
Oct 24 2011 8:22PM
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loganimlach
Posts: 5132 - Karma: 14,052
the mdf not only will be hard to seal to, it wont hold a vacuum because it's porous. anything that you can find that is non porous will work, and honestly it won't alter your camber profile much
Oct 21 2013 5:36PM
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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,409
I've been putting mine below, it doesn't seem to mess up the flex and it didn't tear apart on my first pair. Plus with inserts I'd rather have the layer intended to grab them closer to the center of the inserts body. Probably pros and cons to both, but it's likely that it's all really negligible. For my next set though I'm going to try a layer of 11oz mat. That stuff seems like it would have a pretty 'unbiased' grab on a screw. Not sure how it would effect the flex.

@Zoidberg. I think it all depends on the kind of stain you use. I can't remember 100% so don't quote me on this but I think solvent based stains aren't usable but water and alcohol based stains are.
Oct 21 2013 5:37PM
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razors-chaz
Posts: 2255 - Karma: 1,250
yeah i always knew i would have to line the mold esp as i'm only bolting the ribs together. my question is more about getting the lining to stick to the cut sides of the mdf. do you think sticking hdpe or acrylic sheet and possibly screwing it down fairly taught, outside the vac seal area work to hold the lining down in the vac?
Oct 21 2013 5:46PM
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joelski
Posts: 1014 - Karma: 736
Has anyone done wood burning graphics on the core? How did they turnout
Oct 21 2013 5:49PM
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loganimlach
Posts: 5132 - Karma: 14,052
i would use HDPE and screw the perimeter, that's what i do with mine and my mold isn't nearly as stout as yours. then just seal your bag inside the screws and you have no need for glue or anything like that.
Oct 21 2013 5:59PM
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bakedpow
Posts: 8770 - Karma: 10,462
started the build for my first pair of skis yesterday. was gona start with my core today but the planar needs new blades so those are being replaced as we speak will probably have cores done this evening. definitely by tomorrow.


some photos

Click for larger image

Click for larger image

Click for larger image

iv got a new respect for how hard building a pair of skis is. definitely would get easier after a few pairs but the first pair is tough cuz you want it perfect but dont really know what youre doing. so its a mix of a lot of time spent making it perfect and almost mking mistakes. this is soo much fun and im hooked. gona have to build my own press this summer.
Oct 23 2013 4:03AM
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joelski
Posts: 1014 - Karma: 736
Has anyone used bamboo cores? what is there stiffness and weight like?
Oct 26 2013 11:46AM
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snowfinder
Posts: 2717 - Karma: 32,923
It gets easier.

is that a knot in the core?
Oct 26 2013 11:48AM
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bakedpow
Posts: 8770 - Karma: 10,462
Ya I think so but those are not my cores. That's not me pictured. The cores are for te guy running them through the planar. But from what he has told me it doesn't make a big difference? This is my first pair so I'm completely new to all of this.
Oct 26 2013 12:10PM
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snowfinder
Posts: 2717 - Karma: 32,923
Well you really dont want knots in the core it will affect the strength and durability of a ski. Also make sure you keep your bases flat after they are cut or they will curl up and become difficult to work with. You can put some wood on top on them and some weight on top of the wood to keep them flat.
Oct 26 2013 12:15PM
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hot.pocket
Posts: 4197 - Karma: 10,366
Bamboo is:

1. Expensive

2. Lightweight

3. Flexible

4. Sturdy
Oct 27 2013 3:37PM
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loganimlach
Posts: 5132 - Karma: 14,052
i feel like comparing my bamboo skis to my other skis i would remove lightweight from that list. sure, raw bamboo is light (like in the range of low 20's ppcf), but i haven't really seen a number for laminated bamboo. i didn't weigh mine, but in my experience i would keep 1, 3 and 4 on your list.
Oct 27 2013 11:09PM
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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,409
http://www.core77.com/blog/materials/bamboo_part_i_how_do_they_make_it_into_boards_8982.asp

Raw bamboo is pretty light but bamboo boards are definitely heavier and somewhat of a manufactured product. The article above describes the process that is used to take the grass from a long hollow tube structure and turn it into boards. Still amazing stuff though. The biggest issue with using it in skis and snowboards is the complications of milling it. It's high silica content causes it to chew up blades and bits really quick, and getting a clean cut is a lot more difficult than it would be vs. a wood like aspen or maple.
Oct 27 2013 11:22PM
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joelski
Posts: 1014 - Karma: 736
thanks for all the info everione
Oct 28 2013 12:18AM
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sivercartel4ever
Posts: 66 - Karma: 56
In regards to the bamboo question. I used to live in the Philippines and they literally make everything out of the stuff. The trouble with your question is theres a ton of different types of bamboo some light some heavy some weak and some strong. Also if anyones ever seen bamboo the stuffs not flat its round and hollow so to get a piece of raw bamboo that is thick enough to mill into something usable for a ski core is expensive with a ton of waste material. Most companies selling bamboo in america take it and find ways to fuse it to make it flat like boards that we ate used to seeing. This is a manufactured bamboo. This is what i'd assume ski companies use as its what most all flooring and furniture companies in america use for their "bamboo" products. In theory great idea but to achieve a truly solid raw bamboo core would be super hard to do.
Nov 6 2013 1:44AM
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bakedpow
Posts: 8770 - Karma: 10,462
here is my topsheet designed by gavin rudy with some help from me on ideas. gona get built by miller studios and pressed by me:) i wont be able to finish them until january tho as im leaving school a little early due to an injury so i wont have access to a press and tools for a while. i just get to drool over his awesome work

Click for larger image
Nov 6 2013 2:17AM
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bakedpow
Posts: 8770 - Karma: 10,462
and sorry for the massive image i forget to compress it before i uploaded it
Nov 6 2013 2:17AM
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max...
Posts: 1379 - Karma: 801
^^ so sick! love the calvin and hobbes
Nov 6 2013 12:17PM
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Mr.Huck
Posts: 6096 - Karma: 14,893
I've got a question for all you garage ski fab guys. Where do you get the router bit to recess the sidewall on your skis? I would think that someone manufacturers a specific bit for this purpose. Thanks in advance for the advice.
Nov 14 2013 2:38PM
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loganimlach
Posts: 5132 - Karma: 14,052
pm'd
Nov 14 2013 2:48PM
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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,409
Wait do you have a bit? I have a special shoe for my router to angle the bit, then run the foot on the base side of the ski with a shank side bearing. Works perfectly. Pretty sure I even have pictures in the thread somewhere... Will dig them up later.
Nov 14 2013 3:16PM
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*DUMBCAN*
Posts: 2447 - Karma: 5,627
If I saw that on a pair of skis in a shop I would be tempted to buy them simply for the graphic. So sick.
Nov 14 2013 3:18PM
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Mr.Huck
Posts: 6096 - Karma: 14,893
Can you send me pics of this setup. Thanks huge!!!
Nov 14 2013 3:19PM
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loganimlach
Posts: 5132 - Karma: 14,052
Click for larger image
Nov 14 2013 4:07PM
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snowfinder
Posts: 2717 - Karma: 32,923
Also check this out.
http://www.blankslateskis.com/sidewall-bevel-router-bit-25-degrees/

For some reason I cant upload a link or photos, but check out that link for a nice bit.
Nov 14 2013 4:48PM
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Mr.Huck
Posts: 6096 - Karma: 14,893
Dude, thanks. I think I actually like the 18 degree better though. I was looking for a place to pick up routers bits like that.

Click for larger image
Nov 15 2013 12:05AM
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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,409
Do you intend on using it for sidewalls or something else?
Nov 15 2013 12:23AM
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Mr.Huck
Posts: 6096 - Karma: 14,893
Sidewalls. Wanted to be able to put a bevel on the edge with a stone grinder when it was all said and done. Can't do that if the edge is flush with sidewall and the sidewall is vertical. So we would either use the 18 degree and bevel the side wall back about and 8th of an inch from the edge to create a sidewall profile like the bottom example or use a straight router bit with a sleeve bearing which would allow us to shave about an 8th of an inch off the sidewall a little above the edge which would give us something like the top picture. Sorry for the run on.

Click for larger image
Nov 15 2013 12:35AM
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K.Breit
Posts: 211 - Karma: 143
This may have already been answered, but I'm curious about the labels. Are they just printed on paper and put under the top layer of glass?
Nov 28 2013 10:31PM
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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,409
They are just a regular inkjet print. They go underneath the UHMW or clear nylon topsheet, not the actual fiberglass. So it's the last thing to go into the layup before the topsheet goes on. You don't want it under the glass for two reasons. Firstly it's not good to have something separating the structural glass ply and the core. And secondly, it would'nt be as clear if embedded underneath the glass.

Here's mine, and it looks way clearer, just a shitty out of focus picture.

Click for larger image
Nov 28 2013 11:13PM
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KrazyistKarl
Posts: 1725 - Karma: 599
I browsed the thread before and can't remember if it came up, but does anyone use CNC for ski building, could be used for building the molds for the press??
Nov 29 2013 1:11PM
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*DUMBCAN*
Posts: 2447 - Karma: 5,627
Yes and yes. You'll need a big CNC.

Most ski companies use CNCs to cut the shape of the ski.

I've heard of them being used to profile the core, but it's much faster to use a planer.
Nov 29 2013 2:03PM
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IlTeo
Posts: 44 - Karma: 24
First post here so hello to everyone,
I'm writing from Italy and of course i'm building skis, since in italy there isn't a real forum for freeskiing I decided to write here, for talk about this aspect of skiing which is one of my favorite.

I'm building skis with my friends from two years now and here are some results:

The k-fed 112-85-112, 170cm, 8mm camber with a mini early rise, bamboo core, maple spacers, triax fiberglass and sintered base, the graphics are screenprinted on top and bottom. Pressed in a heated press.

[URL=http://imageshack.com/i/ma4a78j]Click for larger image[/URL]

Some random pics of the "lab" and of the evolution of the kfed during these two years
[URL=http://imageshack.com/i/0uq40bj]Click for larger image[/URL]
[URL=http://imageshack.com/i/1quvc9j]Click for larger image[/URL]
[URL=http://imageshack.com/i/nlqd9gj]Click for larger image[/URL]
[URL=http://imageshack.com/i/0wsebcj]Click for larger image[/URL]
[URL=http://imageshack.com/i/0agdwxj]Click for larger image[/URL]

currently experimenting whit urethane sidewall and uberlight cores. but one problem still ruins every ski we press, those damn air pockets between edges base and VDS. Guys how do you solve this problem? I suspect that there are air bubbles trapped in my epoxy mix but I'm not sure...
There are some pics of the new skis that I'm testing this year some skinnier cambered park skis.
Good day to everyone
Dec 10 2013 4:13PM
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loganimlach
Posts: 5132 - Karma: 14,052
fucking sick man!

i guess its all how you lay it up, personally i haven't ever had an issue. i pour enough epoxy on the base to get it covered and work it side to side with my fingers. then i lay my strip of VDS on the middle of the base making sure it's contacting the whole length. i then flip it and lay the other side on the middle of the base, so both sides are completely covered in epoxy. i then move it into place over the edge. then i repeat that 3 more times, once for each strip.

how are you currently laying it up?
Dec 10 2013 4:45PM
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IlTeo
Posts: 44 - Karma: 24
I pour epoxy on the base and then I brush it on the edges before I put VDS over it, probably I'm not using enough epoxy on the base, on the next pair I'm going to use a little bit more and see what happens. When I manage to solve this problem the skis will be pretty much flawless (more or less) so I could move to some crazy experimentation stuff.
Talkin about strange layups these are my pow skis
187cm, 143-124-132, 1450grams per ski. using a Pet core made in switzerland, they weight like park skis but are huge.
[URL=http://imageshack.com/i/f5yrbmj]Click for larger image[/URL]
Dec 10 2013 5:03PM
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razors-chaz
Posts: 2255 - Karma: 1,250
I really want to get back into contributing to this thread with how the building of my skis is going/has gone but the motherboard on my laptop is dead so im currently only on mobile until then. If somebody would embed the images from my instagram (agfleming1) of my #diyskis build that would be much appreciated. Should be getting a new laptop soon so will do a proper round up of things.
Dec 10 2013 5:17PM
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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,409
@Leo, I was having the exact same problem on my first three pair as well. It does all come down to layup technique. I start by pouring a length of epoxy from tip to tail and then I wet the edges out with that epoxy. You do need to hit in between each edge tooth, if you don't you'll definitely have this issue. It's really hard to tell what teeth have been wetted out, when working with clear base. From there I brush one side of my VDS strip with epoxy, align it over the edge, and then squeeze it down good with my fingers. If you don't do that last step, the strips will flow out under pressure.

The other thing that will cause issues here is the edge your using. Now, it's not something you can really control. But the internal edge in the ski is the old stuff I got from the Ski Lab, the edge piece laying on the ski is the new stuff. The new stuff has a lower tooth count and I haven't had a bubble to date with it. Alternatively I would think that less epoxy bonding points with the new edge would be weaker.

Click for larger image


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I'm also trying an experiment with my base cutting process. I'll hopefully have a thread up over the holidays or in the new year. Ha, life will be insane for the next two weeks or so, so I won't have much if any time to do it.
Dec 10 2013 5:49PM
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hot.pocket
Posts: 4197 - Karma: 10,366
Finally got these mounted up, dad and I built them a couple years ago, had to repress due to shifting in the press (thus the 'repressed' on the tip).

Really soft, excited to try them out at boreal tomorrow!

Click for larger image

Look close enough, my dad tie-dyed in my name (Max) across the tails.
Dec 13 2013 12:48AM
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bakedpow
Posts: 8770 - Karma: 10,462
those are awesome!

cant wait to get back to school so i can finish my skis. theyre all set and ready to press
Dec 13 2013 1:05AM
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IlTeo
Posts: 44 - Karma: 24
Looking great! Don't get the repress thing but they are pretty awesome. This evening i've pressed another pair, sadly slalom-fis like skis but with a "parkly" twist ahahah. Followed your tips hoping this time there are no air pockets. Post
back when everything is baked!
Shred those diy skis this weekend!
Dec 13 2013 4:55PM
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Blake.P
Posts: 9894 - Karma: 3,585
what are the start up costs like, and roughly what is the cost of materials for each pair. depending on the prices, i might try to make a few pairs this summer
Dec 14 2013 8:06PM
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IlTeo
Posts: 44 - Karma: 24
Well I build in italy so the cost could be different from yours but the raw material cost me about 100 euros per pair (roughly 120 dollars I belive).The biggest cost is the press, depending on the type you build, and the moulds if you use a cnc to cut it. (press= 250 euros molds=200) keep in mind that I buy material for 20 pairs everytime so my costs should be slighty lower.
Hope it helps you.
Dec 15 2013 12:54AM
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loganimlach
Posts: 5132 - Karma: 14,052
To build my first pair was about $1000-$1200. And the only tooling I had prior was your basic carpentry shit. After that I'm running anywhere from $140-$220 per pair based on core materials and carbon content, and that includes shipping costs. I'm also using a vacuum setup rather than a press, which is definitely a cheaper alternative
Dec 15 2013 11:06AM
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snowfinder
Posts: 2717 - Karma: 32,923
Damn 1000 bucks , I think I spent maybe 500 tops for everything. I went to yard sales and used tool shops it helps out a lot. The priciest thing i bought for ski making was the epoxy which was like 150.

Now I'm up more in price with a planner and some other goodies.
Dec 15 2013 3:55PM
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Blake.P
Posts: 9894 - Karma: 3,585
alright word, i pretty much only have basic tools, so i'll have to buy a table saw/ planar/clamps/the stuff for a vacuum press. im probably gonna keep an eye out for deals on craigslist or something when the time comes for me to get this stuff.

also i might be able to get the wood for pretty cheap because my uncle owns a lumber yard so he will give me materials at cost
Dec 15 2013 8:10PM
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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,409
To get my first pair made I probably hit the three grand mark. That's everything including the ski materials. And there were also some tools in there to, but for the most part I had what I needed already. I went all out and over the top with my setup though. My press is probably overkill for what I'm doing but I love the shit out of that thing, and I do feel like having a nicely tuned press gives me a super nice quality layup, that doesn't mean you need a giant press to get some really nice skis made though.

On the topic of presses and costs, I'm actually thinking about designing and building myself a second, single ski press made specifically for builders on a budget. If I do get time to build it and it works well, I'll make the plan available to the cummintiy. No guarantees I'll get to it soon though, hoping to build a lot of really cool project skis first.
Dec 15 2013 8:27PM
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razors-chaz
Posts: 2255 - Karma: 1,250
I think all in I tipped over $1000 but that includes the materials for my mould, the CNC cutting of my mould, the vac pump and all the ancillaries I needed. Raw materials wise I was close to $300 with shipping then maybe $200 more on the CNC usage costs. Didnt have to buy much in the way of tools because of using the CNC and already having things like a jig saw and had access to a family friends carpentry workshop for the finishing & varnishing. The costings are a rounded esimate then converted to dollars from gbp/euro as I'm building in the uk and shipped the raw materials from Germany.
Dec 16 2013 8:47AM
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snowfinder
Posts: 2717 - Karma: 32,923
For those looking for a vacuum pump, this one is a great deal.


It does need oil and it gives off oily mist, simple way to fix that put a hose in the exhaust and out a window.
Dec 16 2013 10:54AM
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hot.pocket
Posts: 4197 - Karma: 10,366
You can build skis for dirt cheap IF you know how to go about it. One of the professors here has built skis out of wood he ripped off of old pallets. People use sandbags to press skis as opposed to vacuum / pneumatic presses and other assorted weird ways to get around costs, just got to get creative!
Dec 17 2013 11:40PM
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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,409
Just a bump to liven up this forum. Was out on these skis today on the hill for the first time and the shape, flex, and profile all work great with eachother. Carves really well for a fatter rockered ski, and it jibs everything really well. It's really nice riding a fatter ski in the park, landings are really smooth and soft. Prior to today, all of my riding has been done here:



I landed my first frontflip at 0:25 on them, and then my buddy in the blue Bloom coat (**Steeze*Whiz**) is riding a pair of 88 waist, 185 flat length park skis. They were a really well pressed set, and I'll be doing some writing about them and how they've held up. Been a sick season for everyone so far out here.

As far as building goes I'm getting back to it after a few months at school, and some crazy holiday shenanigans. I'm in the midst of trying to change a few building process to just streamline things so that builds happen much quicker start to finish, regardless of whether I'm doing one or multiple pairs at a time. Aha, it's never easy trying to figure out something new though.
Jan 12 2014 11:28PM
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