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March, 2024

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Ski Durability PSA

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hi_vis360
Posts: 4597 - Karma: 45,069
All of this has been said before but I’ve been seeing a lot of kooky posts about durability on here recently so I guess people need to be reminded

IF YOU SKI PARK EVERY DAY YOUR SKIS ARE GOING TO BREAK.

Doesn’t matter what brand they are it will happen eventually. There are I think 2 factories that make edges so they aren’t that different between brands.

Skis that are mass produced in a large factory will have slightly worse quality control than handmade skis, so the potential for defects is higher. But some mass produced skis are great! it’s just more variable when you buy from a big company because there are fewer sets of eyes on each ski, and one small fuck up in the factory can become a huge fuck up because of the scale. Some K2s are good, some are bad, same goes for faction line etc., Vishnu is in the same boat. Design plays a small role, if you do buy a budget ski it will likely be worse.

Smaller companies like on3p are more consistent, but not necessarily superior. You get what you pay for.

Some people are harder on skis than others. I skied with guys growing up that broke shit all the time. I’m lighter on my feet and don’t ski park all the time so my skis last longer. Just the way it is.

And finally, enough of this “I have X days on these skis and they look like THIS” shit. We don’t know what you were doing on each of those days. You could take the most bomber skis and do huge disasters and 4s on for 5 days straight and they would be toast. Or you could be doing mellow swaps and jumps for 60 days and they would look mint. Number of days means nothing.

Ive seen every brand of ski get called out for being not durable on this website. Everybody is just sharing their personal experience, which can vary wildly. So your best bet is to go and support a company that releases content that you like and is supporting the newschool community, and stop obsessing over durability.
Mar 28 2023 8:09AM
124 5
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Farmville420
Posts: 3907 - Karma: 48,792
Newsheeperslmao why'd you buy them knowing you're gonna break them


To be fair they did come in the forums and say the LTC skis were just the new chronics which they had “improved the durability” and construction of lmfao
Mar 30 2023 12:10PM
6 0
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ajbski
Posts: 1258 - Karma: 5,044
hi_vis360Skis that are mass produced in a large factory will have slightly worse quality control than handmade skis, so the potential for defects is higher.

stoekli has a crazy q/a procedure. Im pretty sure they make well over 100 pair/day.


Honestly i would argue the opposite:

-the bigger companies (that havent outsourced their manufacturing) actually have money to invest in automated equipment that actually processes materials much more consistently than processing done by "hand and eye". hand and eye could be more accurate depending on instrumentation and measuring practices. Ive never seen better edge fitment than i have on wagner skis.


"there are only two edge manufacturers..."

even if so, CDW offers so many different edges. you can get different shapes of tines, thicknesses, widths, rake angles, different compositions of steel. all of these change the skis durability on rails. one brand to another could use VERY different edges.

check out this brochure. https://www.dropbox.com/s/iui9spzx6kd3hk3/CDW%20EDGE%20-%20brochure.pdf?dl=0




IMO when people (including myself) complain about durability, i think they are more complaining about material quality than craftsmanship.
Mar 30 2023 12:42PM
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IsaacNW82
Posts: 765 - Karma: 6,600
hi_vis360This is exactly my point, making black and white assumptions on durability based on brand or even what factory they are made in is often futile. And despite what many people have been reporting on the blue jets, I saw some homies riding them earlier this season and it looked like they were holding up fine. I’ve also seen pics of gen 1 and 2 jets with full letters missing from the base. For every story about good durability, you can usually find someone who will say the opposite. Seen dudes call out on3p for having binding pull out issues. Saw a whole thread calling out moment for having shitty bases (which are the same material as on3p apparently). I’m not saying durability doesn’t exist as a concept, it’s just a lot more of a mixed bag than people make it out to be and everybody’s individual experience can vary a huge amount depending on where and how they ski.


Nitpicking, but Moment switched over to Isospeed 7500 series, but they have used Durasurf 4001 in the past (Which is what ON3P still uses, albeit a thicker 1.8mm version). I know someone from Moment was on here a few weeks ago saying the Isospeed is better but tbh they're both are pretty much the top of the line sintered base from the two largest manufacturers, so to say either is crappy is just plain wrong
Mar 30 2023 1:27PM
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Newsheepers
Posts: 2134 - Karma: 3,887
I love my moment edges 🦈




💯💯
Mar 30 2023 1:38PM
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AlmostCooler
Posts: 583 - Karma: 3,619
IsaacNW82Nitpicking, but Moment switched over to Isospeed 7500 series, but they have used Durasurf 4001 in the past (Which is what ON3P still uses, albeit a thicker 1.8mm version). I know someone from Moment was on here a few weeks ago saying the Isospeed is better but tbh they're both are pretty much the top of the line sintered base from the two largest manufacturers, so to say either is crappy is just plain wrong


Interesting, I was under the impression that Moment was still using Durasurf. Thanks for the info.

I'm no expert on base material but anyone who denies that ON3P's green bases are unbelievably durable is smoking crack
Mar 30 2023 3:01PM
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AlmostCooler
Posts: 583 - Karma: 3,619
hi_vis360Seen dudes call out on3p for having binding pull out issues.

Interested in seeing any convo on that if you've got a link. That's how I blew up my pair
Mar 30 2023 3:03PM
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BradFiAusNzCoCa
Posts: 6620 - Karma: 56,995
Wasn’t moment using a 1.3mm or 1.5mm Durasurf 4001 prior to isospeed?

Ive got Durasurf 4001 on some skis from a smaller brand. Got a core shot my first week having them lmao
IsaacNW82Nitpicking, but Moment switched over to Isospeed 7500 series, but they have used Durasurf 4001 in the past (Which is what ON3P still uses, albeit a thicker 1.8mm version). I know someone from Moment was on here a few weeks ago saying the Isospeed is better but tbh they're both are pretty much the top of the line sintered base from the two largest manufacturers, so to say either is crappy is just plain wrong
Mar 30 2023 3:10PM
1 0
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AlmostCooler
Posts: 583 - Karma: 3,619
BradFiAusNzCoCaWasn’t moment using a 1.3mm or 1.5mm Durasurf 4001


1.5
Mar 30 2023 4:53PM
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BradFiAusNzCoCa
Posts: 6620 - Karma: 56,995
Nah I just found the thread where they were saying they use 1.3mm on TGR. Iggy jumps in the thread too to talk about ON3P and how to measure base thickness




AlmostCooler1.5
Mar 30 2023 5:05PM
2 0
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hi_vis360
Posts: 4597 - Karma: 45,069
ajbskistoekli has a crazy q/a procedure. Im pretty sure they make well over 100 pair/day.


Honestly i would argue the opposite:

-the bigger companies (that havent outsourced their manufacturing) actually have money to invest in automated equipment that actually processes materials much more consistently than processing done by "hand and eye". hand and eye could be more accurate depending on instrumentation and measuring practices. Ive never seen better edge fitment than i have on wagner skis.


"there are only two edge manufacturers..."

even if so, CDW offers so many different edges. you can get different shapes of tines, thicknesses, widths, rake angles, different compositions of steel. all of these change the skis durability on rails. one brand to another could use VERY different edges.

check out this brochure. https://www.dropbox.com/s/iui9spzx6kd3hk3/CDW%20EDGE%20-%20brochure.pdf?dl=0




IMO when people (including myself) complain about durability, i think they are more complaining about material quality than craftsmanship.


When I said “handmade” I was trying to distinguish between brands that outsource production vs brands that make their own skis. And I totally agree, big companies have the resources to get the best materials and equipment to build skis, but the question is will they do it? Seems like sometimes yes, sometimes no.
Mar 30 2023 7:15PM
2 1
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hi_vis360
Posts: 4597 - Karma: 45,069
AlmostCoolerInterested in seeing any convo on that if you've got a link. That's how I blew up my pair


It was a thread from a while ago there is no way I will be able to find it, but the theory is that the bamboo core doesn’t hold screws in as well as other types of wood. I love how the full bamboo core skis though
Mar 30 2023 7:18PM
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weastcoat
Posts: 6029 - Karma: 68,222
hi_vis360looked like they were holding up fine.


they hold up fine until they snap lol. I hate to sound like a broken record but if you don’t snap those skis if ur riding them you prolly ain’t riding hard enough. That’s how fragile they are.


and as for the base issue I guarantee you we will see more of those Letters coming out sooner or later… just how it is with die cuts. Only a matter of time and BAM them shits fall out so easily. Same thing with Icelantics planks.
Mar 31 2023 1:55AM
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MaimHelp
Posts: 1682 - Karma: 13,214
AlmostCoolerInterested in seeing any convo on that if you've got a link. That's how I blew up my pair


i had a pair mounted a while ago that I ended up never even skiing cause my previous pair was the same ski, so I took the bindings off myself, no joke could unscrew them with one hand with little resistance.

yes they were mounted properly
Mar 31 2023 1:34PM
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SpicyK
Posts: 21 - Karma: 315
Newsheeperslmao why'd you buy them knowing you're gonna break them


cause i believed in the spirit of andy parry
Apr 1 2023 6:02PM
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b0ss
Posts: 778 - Karma: 6,107
ON3P obtained, post neglected.
Apr 3 2023 11:10AM
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