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skeirmanLegally, you are completely wrong. It would be legal negligence on the part of the production company to rely on an ass-clown untrained, uncertified, unlicensed actor to ensure the working order and safety of a firearm and ammunition. What you are saying is actually ridiculous.
**This post was edited on Oct 24th 2021 at 2:41:13pm
Its clear to me that you know nothing at all about guns, you do not need a license to own a gun. Yes, it would be legal negligence for the production company to rely on the actors to make sure the guns are safe. I never said that it should be up to the actors. What I said clearly was that when handed a real firearm it is up to you to make sure it is unloaded. ESPECIALLY if you are going to point it at someone and pull the trigger. I do not give a fuck if 100 people have made sure it was unloaded before you. It is up to the person holding the weapon to open the chamber and check. The number one rule when holding a gun is always treat it as if it is loaded no matter what, this has been drilled into my brain since I was a very little kid and it same with literally every responsible gun owner. If Alec Baldwin had any sort of gun training whatsoever and was not some anti gun moron, I guarantee this would have never have happened. He pointed a real gun at someone and pulled the trigger, therefore his responsibility. Its one thing if it was a prop gun, but it was not. It was a real firearm shooting blanks. When you do not treat lethal weapons with respect you will pay the price. The kind of attitude/reasoning that you have about this is literally the same exact reason why he shot some one in the first place. Pretty much all gun accidents are due to negligence, Alec Baldwin is a prime example. The only reason you should point a gun at a living being at all is if you intend on killing it.
T.L.He absolutely should have known better. If someone hands you any sort of projectile based weapon, whether its a nerfgun, propgun, potato gun, or a AR, you check to see if it's loaded. That's day one firearms safety shit and he's been handling prop guns on set for literally decades. If he can't make a distinction between a blank and a live round, maybe he's just as bad at his job as his armorer was.
If anything that works against your argument. He's been handling prop guns for years and the production team has done things safely.
Idk, it's weird that y'all are saying his fault and how much differently you would have done it. Obviously hindsight, and the future I see it.
Idk, I'm out of this thread. Blame whoever you want.
steeze_louiseIts clear to me that you know nothing at all about guns, you do not need a license to own a gun. Yes, it would be legal negligence for the production company to rely on the actors to make sure the guns are safe. I never said that it should be up to the actors. What I said clearly was that when handed a real firearm it is up to you to make sure it is unloaded. ESPECIALLY if you are going to point it at someone and pull the trigger. I do not give a fuck if 100 people have made sure it was unloaded before you. It is up to the person holding the weapon to open the chamber and check. The number one rule when holding a gun is always treat it as if it is loaded no matter what, this has been drilled into my brain since I was a very little kid and it same with literally every responsible gun owner. If Alec Baldwin had any sort of gun training whatsoever and was not some anti gun moron, I guarantee this would have never have happened. He pointed a real gun at someone and pulled the trigger, therefore his responsibility. Its one thing if it was a prop gun, but it was not. It was a real firearm shooting blanks. When you do not treat lethal weapons with respect you will pay the price. The kind of attitude/reasoning that you have about this is literally the same exact reason why he shot some one in the first place. Pretty much all gun accidents are due to negligence, Alec Baldwin is a prime example. The only reason you should point a gun at a living being at all is if you intend on killing it.
OMG dude I'm not talking about a license to own a gun. You are confused about what legal negligence is and when it applies, and also about on-set procedures regarding prop guns, which were talked about earlier in this thread, and how those procedures would relate to negligence.
**This post was edited on Oct 24th 2021 at 6:01:30pm
theabortionatorIf anything that works against your argument. He's been handling prop guns for years and the production team has done things safely.
Idk, it's weird that y'all are saying his fault and how much differently you would have done it. Obviously hindsight, and the future I see it.
Idk, I'm out of this thread. Blame whoever you want.
huh? I'm saying he should have known to check the gun before starting a scene. At the very least for his own peace of mind.
The production team? I'm not sure what you mean.
But yes, of course people who have experience handling firearms would do things differently. There's 10's of millions of us that handle guns every single day with very few accidents because we do things a certain way. One of those things is to check to see if it's loaded. Literally every time you pick one up. Even if I watch someone right next to me cycle the action of a pistol before they hand it to me I'm going to do it again once it's in my hands.
theabortionatorIt's weird how giddy some people are about this. Some of the gun people seem pretty happy about this. Even the thread title is like "LOOK SEE! ha!"
Idk, have a bunch of guns, do whatever. Not sure why somebody dying has people so hyped.
I said the same thing about that completely random gabby girl that people are still simping over and you seemed perplexed why someone would question the amount of news coverage a random girl was getting.
A hollywood celebrity, a household name, Alec Baldwin.. who happens to be an extremely anti-gun person.. who has used their celebrity status to disparage gun owners for years while making millions of dollars on film handling firearms... killed someone on the set of a movie with a gun..
Presumably on film, with probably dozens of witnesses present. People are discussing the incident and trying to figure out how it could have happened and where the blame should lie and now this is what's "weird" to talk about?
The irony here is t h i c k
I'm not giddy or hyped on someone dying. If that's the read you're getting from me then i dunno what else to tell ya.
How the hell does that even happen? They don't use live rounds on set, did someone change the prop out for live rounds? Twas it a conspiracy to pin baldwin?
My theory is the special effects studio did it because they want everything to be simulated by a computer now. The 80's and 90's effects look more realistic than half the stuff coming out of hollywood now. It is highly likely that someone slipped in live rounds as a conspiracy to increase funding for special effects department.
qazwsxedc34How the hell does that even happen? They don't use live rounds on set, did someone change the prop out for live rounds? Twas it a conspiracy to pin baldwin?
My theory is the special effects studio did it because they want everything to be simulated by a computer now. The 80's and 90's effects look more realistic than half the stuff coming out of hollywood now. It is highly likely that someone slipped in live rounds as a conspiracy to increase funding for special effects department.
I'm just kidding, idk
It looks like they are saying the crew used the gun for target practice nearby the set with live rounds, and then stored the unused live ammo in the same area as the blanks that were supposed to be used for the scene.
steeze_louiseIts clear to me that you know nothing at all about guns, you do not need a license to own a gun. Yes, it would be legal negligence for the production company to rely on the actors to make sure the guns are safe. I never said that it should be up to the actors. What I said clearly was that when handed a real firearm it is up to you to make sure it is unloaded. ESPECIALLY if you are going to point it at someone and pull the trigger. I do not give a fuck if 100 people have made sure it was unloaded before you. It is up to the person holding the weapon to open the chamber and check. The number one rule when holding a gun is always treat it as if it is loaded no matter what, this has been drilled into my brain since I was a very little kid and it same with literally every responsible gun owner. If Alec Baldwin had any sort of gun training whatsoever and was not some anti gun moron, I guarantee this would have never have happened. He pointed a real gun at someone and pulled the trigger, therefore his responsibility. Its one thing if it was a prop gun, but it was not. It was a real firearm shooting blanks. When you do not treat lethal weapons with respect you will pay the price. The kind of attitude/reasoning that you have about this is literally the same exact reason why he shot some one in the first place. Pretty much all gun accidents are due to negligence, Alec Baldwin is a prime example. The only reason you should point a gun at a living being at all is if you intend on killing it.
Work-site usage of firearms is absolutely regulated and you do need to be licensed and certified to operate, handle, and hand-off prop firearms in such a working-environment.
This is not the backwoods of your uncle's 30 acre property in the ozarks, this is on an OSHA regulated movie set where there are people everywhere doing work, and if the AD shouts 'cold gun' if he hands it to you, it pretty much removes you from responsibility, seeing as it went through 3 different hands before it even touched yours.
This is essentially like saying someone is liable for the rental car that their company gave them the keys to having brakes that don't work that causes an accident that hurts someone. Do you expect just any old anyone to have to check the brakes on the rental car before they go drive it? No, because thats stupid as hell.
This has nothing to do with Alec Baldwin's stance on gun control... If Tom Selleck had been hired to be the actor on set, and did the exact same shit that Baldwin did, you wouldn't be saying a god damn thing...
You're just trying to make it all about what Baldwin advocates for (common sense gun control) rather than looking at the actual situation. It's a projection of prejudice and this is why you should probably never serve on a jury or be able to make decisions about anything for anyone in the future. Do us a favour and don't have children.
The fact of the matter is, there shouldnt even be a live round on this set, except for, and only during a specific scene where they might have a stuntman shooting a target or something... they certainly shouldnt have such a clusterfuck of a production environment to where a actual, loaded fucking firearm could be accidently handed off and discharged. Someone fucked up. It was probably not Baldwin himself.
skeirmanIt looks like they are saying the crew used the gun for target practice nearby the set with live rounds, and then stored the unused live ammo in the same area as the blanks that were supposed to be used for the scene.
Ahh, I see. That sucks. That is a poor, irresponsible move on their part.
theabortionatorIt's weird how giddy some people are about this. Some of the gun people seem pretty happy about this. Even the thread title is like "LOOK SEE! ha!"
Idk, have a bunch of guns, do whatever. Not sure why somebody dying has people so hyped.
Yeah idk been seeing a lot of people this weekend acting like this is a big win
theabortionatorIt's weird how giddy some people are about this. Some of the gun people seem pretty happy about this. Even the thread title is like "LOOK SEE! ha!"
Idk, have a bunch of guns, do whatever. Not sure why somebody dying has people so hyped.
It might have to do with the fact that he supports arbitrary and unconstitutional gun laws such as magazine capacity limits and banning ARs owned by millions of Americans. Yet he managed to KILL someone due in part to his ignorance of the firearms he hates so much. I know he isnt the only factor or even the main reason it happened but you cant argue that it wasnt a factor. If youre going to publically support arbitrary bs like mandatory gun safes then you better be safe with firearms yourself. And he broke the first rule of gun safety...
steeze_louiseIts clear to me that you know nothing at all about guns, you do not need a license to own a gun. Yes, it would be legal negligence for the production company to rely on the actors to make sure the guns are safe. I never said that it should be up to the actors. What I said clearly was that when handed a real firearm it is up to you to make sure it is unloaded. ESPECIALLY if you are going to point it at someone and pull the trigger. I do not give a fuck if 100 people have made sure it was unloaded before you. It is up to the person holding the weapon to open the chamber and check. The number one rule when holding a gun is always treat it as if it is loaded no matter what, this has been drilled into my brain since I was a very little kid and it same with literally every responsible gun owner. If Alec Baldwin had any sort of gun training whatsoever and was not some anti gun moron, I guarantee this would have never have happened. He pointed a real gun at someone and pulled the trigger, therefore his responsibility. Its one thing if it was a prop gun, but it was not. It was a real firearm shooting blanks. When you do not treat lethal weapons with respect you will pay the price. The kind of attitude/reasoning that you have about this is literally the same exact reason why he shot some one in the first place. Pretty much all gun accidents are due to negligence, Alec Baldwin is a prime example. The only reason you should point a gun at a living being at all is if you intend on killing it.
From what I’ve heard it was supposed to be loaded with blanks, so if he opens the revolver and sees it’s loaded that’s to be expected from the actors perspective
Profahoben_212Nahhh I disagree. I don't know much about the situation but it's a movie. In the real world this absolutely checks out....but they are supposed to have multiple barriers so that this situation doesn't happen.
It's like getting pissed at the goalie when you get scored on in soccer. It doesn't make sense because it had to go through every other player to get there.
Sad situation all around though.
It is absolutely astounding that people think it matters that this happened on a movie set. It's a negligent discharge that killed someone. End of story. It doesn't fucking matter legally or theoretically if he was filming Dumb and Dumber 4 and trusted someone else to do basic firearms checks for him, it's HIS FUCKING FAULT. I'm astonished people are making excuses for such an obvious fault and lack of ownership. You can feel bad, you can shake your head, but only one person is responsible for a negligent discharge: the person who pulls the trigger.
Other people failed at their jobs too, but this is a pistol. Not a fighter jet. It's not a complicated machine. When you take ownership of it you own anything that comes flying out of the barrel. Hollywood needs to treat firearms as firearms and stop calling them bullshit things like "prop guns". Train anyone who is going to touch it how to clear it, like every other person on Earth who handles firearms. It's super simple and fucking idiotic to argue against considering the obviously stupid and avoidable consequences of treating guns as toys.
AaronO.Yeah idk been seeing a lot of people this weekend acting like this is a big win
Had a chat with a friend about this. Brought up a case where a drunkass firing wildly up into the air killed an asparagus picker in my hometown.
"well man, that just happens"
Brought up Alec Baldwin
Entirely different answer...but that's just how things are nowadays.
Firearms are cool. The NRA sucks. There are a lot of people in the states that shouldn't have guns. Owning and knowing how to operate a firearm is good. Carrying a firearm that you know how to use is great. Open carry is stupid af.
Unfortunately, it's all about scoring political points. Not that that's new, just seems to be the popular thing among the common man now.
I'm in agreement that the NRA sucks. Their organization is a scam but they do have a very good education program. If you want to give your money to an organization that will actually stand up for your rights then donate to Gun Owners of America
Dustin.It is absolutely astounding that people think it matters that this happened on a movie set. It's a negligent discharge that killed someone. End of story. It doesn't fucking matter legally or theoretically if he was filming Dumb and Dumber 4 and trusted someone else to do basic firearms checks for him, it's HIS FUCKING FAULT. I'm astonished people are making excuses for such an obvious fault and lack of ownership. You can feel bad, you can shake your head, but only one person is responsible for a negligent discharge: the person who pulls the trigger.
Other people failed at their jobs too, but this is a pistol. Not a fighter jet. It's not a complicated machine. When you take ownership of it you own anything that comes flying out of the barrel. Hollywood needs to treat firearms as firearms and stop calling them bullshit things like "prop guns". Train anyone who is going to touch it how to clear it, like every other person on Earth who handles firearms. It's super simple and fucking idiotic to argue against considering the obviously stupid and avoidable consequences of treating guns as toys.
Says the guy that doesn't understand how negligence works.
Yes, yes, and agree. I can also see a strong argument opposing this position of you three below, especially bringing up standards in the film industry. Of note, this was not the first time in this production that live rounds made their way "unintentionally" into a firearm, so when Baldwin shot the lady, this was the second time actual live rounds were in a gun and fired. By this point everyone knew of the previous issue and I'd argue should have been extra careful from all angles, including where you point that muzzle and squeeze the trigger. He was a producer so technically would that make him liable? I'd argue yes. At minimum civilly liable.
Ask yourself this. If this were any other scenario or production outside of Hollywood where someone was handed a gun and told it was unloaded....and then shot someone....straight to jail no questions asked. Think about that for a moment. Idgaf if you're Joe Biden. If you negligently shoot someone, that's on you and you alone. Enough excuses.
And this whole story sums up one simple fact that plagues our society. Negligent firearm injuries and deaths are 100% preventable and occur way too often. The key word is negligent. Guns don't just go off or shoot accidentally. It's either intentional or negligent. Too many people act like guns are either toys or super scary WMDs. If you choose to put a functioning firearm in your hand, you better goddamn know wtf your index finger is doing and know how to operate that piece of machinery. If you don't, then put it down. And gun laws aren't the answer, gun safety is; I've seen too many people "accidentally" shot from illegally obtained firearms.
MiIfHunteryou guys aren't asking yourself the right question
where is the smoking gun?
regardless if alec didnt know, he still shot the gun.
its second degree manslaughter at the very least
you just cant keep passing the buck bcuz once you go down that road personal liability becomes an endless circle
T.L.Discussing how this allegedly happened isn't shifting blame one direction or another. The blame lies with Alec Baldwin because he's the idiot who trusted other idiots with the safety of people's lives and then pulled the trigger.
steeze_louiseThis is totally incorrect, the fact of the matter is that he was holding a real gun, that fired blank bullets. If a real bullet is placed in it and capable of killing someone it is clearly in the category of a lethal weapon and not a prop. It does not matter how much safety protocols were in place and who checked it before you. When a gun is handed to you, you check to see if it is loaded, PERIOD. You always treat a firearm as if it is loaded even if you know it is not. Gun safety stems from good gun safety habits. This is 100% Baldwins responsibility, it may have been an accident but it was still his fault, he was the one holding the gun and the one who pulled the trigger.
theabortionatorIf anything that works against your argument. He's been handling prop guns for years and the production team has done things safely.
I know you're out of the thread but I have to comment it only takes one mistake. Track record means nothing once you kill or harm someone, and this applies to any sector. Their processes in place aren't good enough to prevent harm, so it's up to them to revise them. There's a reason planes crash way less in the US than other countries and it's our safety checks and processes.
Things they could do (probably way more but here's what I got):
-Require an actor check immediately before use
-Keep all firearms and non-live ammunition in a separate warehouse with limited access and strict chain of custody.
-Utilize other methods of technology when selecting ammo (e.g. barcode scanning). Get some IS guys together and I'm sure they could barcode ammo, guns, you name it. Barcode scanning helps minimize the human error of things.
deathcookieQuick question: If you are handed a gun that is loaded with blanks, do they look different when loaded than normal bullets?
Meh, if you're stressed and tired and working too quickly maybe. They're not that similar though.
First is the blanks.
Second is 45 long colt (caliber used) in both fmj and lead (no jacket). Unsure which type was used. If it wasn't the fmj, then they look nothing alike. Fmj is most likely d/t penetration through and into next victim. Last is some designer ammo with a weird cross pattern similar to the blanks.
theabortionatorWhen you fully agree with skierman on a post.
It's a movie set. The people who's job it is literally to ensure this happens safety hand you the gun, you do the scene.
The only person responsible for ensuring a firearm is safe is the person holding it. It doesn't fucking matter that it's a movie set. If he drove "Prop automobile" through a crowd hammered because it was a movie, it's not the movie mechanics fault that he didn't even try to do his part in ensuring basic safety. Anytime anyone ever hands you a firearm, in any scenario....ever....you clear it yourself.
If they really want to have foolproof, truly 100% safe props, they should use guns that are props and not real firearms they call "prop guns".
Dustin.The only person responsible for ensuring a firearm is safe is the person holding it. It doesn't fucking matter that it's a movie set. If he drove "Prop automobile" through a crowd hammered because it was a movie, it's not the movie mechanics fault that he didn't even try to do his part in ensuring basic safety. Anytime anyone ever hands you a firearm, in any scenario....ever....you clear it yourself.
If they really want to have foolproof, truly 100% safe props, they should use guns that are props and not real firearms they call "prop guns".
I agree with you to a degree but movies sets are unique in that they are the only environment where you are told to point an actual firearm at someone or toward people which you would never do in real life. If this was a Colt SAA and was on a table and the actor was told it was full of blanks and to pick it up and fire it at the camera then it is up to the professional armorer to ensure the proper blanks ammo etc was used. Colt SAA revolvers are not like newer revolvers where you can flip out the revolving chamber and inspect the rounds. They need to be pushed out through the gate one by one.
What basically happened was the idiot crew used a prop gun to plink shots with live rounds between takes and forgot to unload it when they brought it back to the set which is beyond stupid and criminal IMO. Live rounds were left in the gun and the armorer didn't do her job to ensure it was safe and the actor followed directions and shot someone.
I hold Alec Baldwin more responsible as the producer than the shooter in that half the crew walked out days prior due to unsafe conditions and he allowed the situation to happen despite multiple warning signs. It was his responsibility to not allow target shooting between takes, to ensure the professionals knew what they were doing and to account for safe conditions including not using real guns for these kind of shots.
Dustin.The only person responsible for ensuring a firearm is safe is the person holding it. It doesn't fucking matter that it's a movie set. If he drove "Prop automobile" through a crowd hammered because it was a movie, it's not the movie mechanics fault that he didn't even try to do his part in ensuring basic safety. Anytime anyone ever hands you a firearm, in any scenario....ever....you clear it yourself.
If they really want to have foolproof, truly 100% safe props, they should use guns that are props and not real firearms they call "prop guns".
that's not how it works on movie sets and that analogy is not an accurate one in the slightest. some people are really falling over themselves to make this baldwin's fault despite not knowing even the basics of how guns work on movie sets
SofaKingSickthat's not how it works on movie sets and that analogy is not an accurate one in the slightest. some people are really falling over themselves to make this baldwin's fault despite not knowing even the basics of how guns work on movie sets
But why is it different on a movie set? A firearm is a firearm is a firearm. Doesn't matter it's location. Yeah, clearly some handlers messed up too, but Alec failed to do a personal check as well.
r00kieBut why is it different on a movie set? A firearm is a firearm is a firearm. Doesn't matter it's location. Yeah, clearly some handlers messed up too, but Alec failed to do a personal check as well.
that's kind of the point here, "a firearm is a firearm is a firearm" isn't exactly true on a movie set-- the entire point of the set is that reality is being fucked with, blurring fake and real, and sometimes that involves the actor taking something that definitely looks like a gun (sometimes even a real gun) and pulling the trigger while aiming at or near somebody. in real life there is never a situation where i point a gun at something i don't intend to damage
so it's entirely different. the actor is not a gun expert and even if they were, their primary jobs would interfere with the gun safety aspect of it. do you want the actor being responsible for safety while also trying to be in character? of course not-- both jobs would suffer. so there are protocols and multiple supposed gun experts whose explicit job is to set things up so that they can hand the gun/prop to some dipshit actor and tell them "COLD GUN!" and the actor takes their word for it. this one was a revolver i think but they aren't always. if i'm an actor and i'm handed a prop beretta, do i unload it, check each round, put them back in the mag, then do the shot? no. it's a division of labor and the gun concerns are delegated explicitly to gun experts. on this set, they fucked up big time
could baldwin be charged in his capacity as a producer? i don't know enough to say. will he be charged in his capacity as an actor? no, not unless it's found that he made a mistake that caused pertinent issues.
like, say if it was a shot where he had blanks in his gun and he was supposed to shoot in the general direction of a far-off target, but instead ran over and shot from point blank and there was damage done, yeah he's obviously going to be in the hot seat. but if he just did his job as agreed to... it is not on him. these accidents are relatively rare and it's not because actors have been putting in effective performances as gun pros lol, it's because protocols are followed by professionals
Gun safety is crucial. I dont care what excuse people have, being on a set, etc. If its a real firearm, it can really kill you, so dont fuck around. He could've followed basic gun safety guidelines and this wouldn't have happened. They should use prop firearms imo.
SofaKingSickthat's kind of the point here, "a firearm is a firearm is a firearm" isn't exactly true on a movie set-- the entire point of the set is that reality is being fucked with, blurring fake and real, and sometimes that involves the actor taking something that definitely looks like a gun (sometimes even a real gun) and pulling the trigger while aiming at or near somebody. in real life there is never a situation where i point a gun at something i don't intend to damage
so it's entirely different. the actor is not a gun expert and even if they were, their primary jobs would interfere with the gun safety aspect of it. do you want the actor being responsible for safety while also trying to be in character? of course not-- both jobs would suffer. so there are protocols and multiple supposed gun experts whose explicit job is to set things up so that they can hand the gun/prop to some dipshit actor and tell them "COLD GUN!" and the actor takes their word for it. this one was a revolver i think but they aren't always. if i'm an actor and i'm handed a prop beretta, do i unload it, check each round, put them back in the mag, then do the shot? no. it's a division of labor and the gun concerns are delegated explicitly to gun experts. on this set, they fucked up big time
could baldwin be charged in his capacity as a producer? i don't know enough to say. will he be charged in his capacity as an actor? no, not unless it's found that he made a mistake that caused pertinent issues.
like, say if it was a shot where he had blanks in his gun and he was supposed to shoot in the general direction of a far-off target, but instead ran over and shot from point blank and there was damage done, yeah he's obviously going to be in the hot seat. but if he just did his job as agreed to... it is not on him. these accidents are relatively rare and it's not because actors have been putting in effective performances as gun pros lol, it's because protocols are followed by professionals
Thars a wordy way to say that cause he's an actor he shouldn't be expected to know how to handle a weapon while handling a weapon. The fact that it's being pointed at other people is even more reason to be extra cautious and do a check before shooting. Let's put this in skiing terms. If someone hands me a beacon, I'm going to check it myself even if the guy who engineered it handed it to me and told me its good to go. Why? Becuase my life or someone else's may depend on it. Same thing here.
Dustin.The only person responsible for ensuring a firearm is safe is the person holding it. It doesn't fucking matter that it's a movie set. If he drove "Prop automobile" through a crowd hammered because it was a movie, it's not the movie mechanics fault that he didn't even try to do his part in ensuring basic safety. Anytime anyone ever hands you a firearm, in any scenario....ever....you clear it yourself.
If they really want to have foolproof, truly 100% safe props, they should use guns that are props and not real firearms they call "prop guns".
Yes, really good example there. If he fires a prop gun handed to him by the team he's basically driving a car hammered through a closed off street of food trucks or something. Seems legit
Here's a solution to solve the whole "it was the weapons team's mistake"....Bring the ammo and firearm to the actor on scene. Then have the actor load each drum or magazine. Then no one can claim plausible deniability.
r00kieThars a wordy way to say that cause he's an actor he shouldn't be expected to know how to handle a weapon while handling a weapon. The fact that it's being pointed at other people is even more reason to be extra cautious and do a check before shooting. Let's put this in skiing terms. If someone hands me a beacon, I'm going to check it myself even if the guy who engineered it handed it to me and told me its good to go. Why? Becuase my life or someone else's may depend on it. Same thing here.
no, i directly addressed what you asked and you're just going back to the same riff (also i'm worried about y'all's understanding of analogies)
i think you guys just prefer your initial reactionary take rather than learning why you might be wrong, so have at it i guess. if any of you bozos* want to bet me that baldwin will be found responsible for the incident for not checking the weapon, be my guest and name the wager
SofaKingSickno, i directly addressed what you asked and you're just going back to the same riff (also i'm worried about y'all's understanding of analogies)
i think you guys just prefer your initial reactionary take rather than learning why you might be wrong, so have at it i guess. if any of you bozos* want to bet me that baldwin will be found responsible for the incident for not checking the weapon, be my guest and name the wager
*
I'd bet he gets cleared too cause he's wealthy, famous, and can divert blame to the prop people like you're doing. Doesn't mean every single gun safety instructur isn't going to use this as an example of why you should personally clear a gun when it's handed to you.
r00kieI'd bet he gets cleared too cause he's wealthy, famous, and can divert blame to the prop people like you're doing. Doesn't mean every single gun safety instructur isn't going to use this as an example of why you should personally clear a gun when it's handed to you.
i'm wasting my time cause it's clear you'd never admit you're wrong on this regardless, but from what we know here the most analogous situation was brandon lee's death while filming The Crow. do you also think Michael Massee, the dude who pulled the trigger, "diverted blame" through wealth and fame?
SofaKingSicki'm wasting my time cause it's clear you'd never admit you're wrong on this regardless, but from what we know here the most analogous situation was brandon lee's death while filming The Crow. do you also think Michael Massee, the dude who pulled the trigger, "diverted blame" through wealth and fame?
You're right, I'm changing myind on this cause the principles of gun safety don't change based on the setting. There is no denying that if baldwin knew how to clear the weapon himself and taken an insignificant amount of time to do so a death would have been prevented. That is fact.
SofaKingSickthat's not how it works on movie sets and that analogy is not an accurate one in the slightest. some people are really falling over themselves to make this baldwin's fault despite not knowing even the basics of how guns work on movie sets
Firearms don't give a shit what forum you place them in. Don't be a fucking idiot.
theabortionatorYes, really good example there. If he fires a prop gun handed to him by the team he's basically driving a car hammered through a closed off street of food trucks or something. Seems legit
Cool analogy jpeg
It's about responsibility and ownership, which are unquestionable when you point a fucking gun at someone and pull the trigger. Since I'm probably the only person here who has actually done that, leave me alone with your stupid sarcastic bullshit about the responsibility of handling weapons. It's an immense weight I would never and will never leave to someone else to do for me.
