Holy fucking shit joe biden

r00kieWhy do I not want the government knowing what firearms I have? Cause its non of their damn business.

I don't really want to wade into the muck here, but to play devil's advocate here... couldn't the same be said for any voter identification or voting restriction laws? Or registering vehicles? Or a myriad of other things?

Something that I would also like to add...why aren't the individuals against gun control fighting hard to get marijuana decriminalized? That itself makes a huge portion of otherwise legal and responsible gun owners felons. Just look at what happened to Kyle Myers (FPS russia). It seems to me that the government making you a felon because you have guns and your roommate has bud is much more restrictive than not being allowed to have ghost guns.

I don't really want to get into a huge debate, because its largely pointless, but just some of my thoughts.

Young_pattySettle down gun-bro, We all know how serial numbers work. I’m assuming you live out in the sticks but it’s a lot more common in urban areas for people to just ditch guns after a crime. If it’s a ghost then it doesn’t matter even if it’s found- which is the entire issue of them being “untraceable”. If someone steals your gun and ghosts it then you’ll likely never see it again- even if it’s used in a violent crime and recovered.

idk why you and others are advocating for people to be able to own these, there is literally no reason for any law abiding gun owner or civilian to own one other than so they can commit a crime with it. Like the law is suggesting we crack down on people found with them- it’s not targeting little Ricky and his dad building his first AR.

Like what, are y’all Fr keeping a ghost on your farm just to shoot raccoons and coyotes?

Why shouldn’t we crack down on people using these stolen or modified guns in crimes?

"Ghosting" a gun isn't a thing(this aint tinder bro) and ghost gun is an ambiguous term made up by Dems just like "assault weapons". Plenty of legally owned firearms don't have serial numbers. No one called them "ghost guns" until recently. Some guns are so old that their serial number just gets worn off. And apparently, you don't know how serial numbers work when you throw around terms like traceability like that's a legitimate thing in preventing gun violence. I've never had any of my guns serial numbers checked lol. And contrary to what CSI Miami told you, most people don't ditch their guns at the crime scene (not that it would matter if they filed the serial number off).

It's important for the people to maintain the ability to manufacture their own firearms because Democrats are trying to pass legislation that makes gun companies liable for crimes committed with the guns they manufactured which would allow them to be sued out of existence. EG no more guns could be manufactured. Also, we have this little thing called the 2nd amendment that says we can have guns, it doesn't mention serial numbers but it does say that it shall not be infringed...

**This post was edited on Apr 8th 2021 at 3:32:01pm

Now if you want to make background checks more stringent, then I’d be down for that. [/quote]
.

Craw_DaddyPlenty of experts and veterans disagree with you on this. The collateral damage that would be done to our civilian population and the nation's infrastructure tips the cost vs benefit of waging war in the favor of the people if the government ever decided to turn on us. Essentially, the military would need to destroy every town and kill tons of people meaning that there would be nothing left once the dust settled. Mutually assured destruction

The big defense for having assault rifles and stockpiling guns I hear is to eventually fight the government. If the government already won't wage war on us due to collateral damages then what's the point? In the meantime, the usa has a clear problem with gun violence but a significant part of the country flips shit if you suggest the ease of access to guns is part of the problem and want to fix that.

r00kieWhy do I not want the government knowing what firearms I have? Cause its non of their damn business.

You live in bum-fuck nowhere Michigan- so keep your raccoon gun, the government doesn’t care. Plus you aren’t using it for violent crimes (I’d hope) so it really doesn’t matter if you keep a pea shooter in your closet.

“it’s non of their damn business”

like bro you sound stupid as fuck, even if I was pro gun I’d be pissed that cretins like you make the whole movement look like a bunch of hillbilly’s.

AndrewGravesSVthe usa has a clear problem with gun violence

I disagree. I'm not at all worried about being shot when I go out in public. If you're not hanging around with people who might want to murder you, gangs, or drug kingpins then statistically you're more likely to be struck by lightning than you are to be killed with a firearm.

Craw_DaddyI disagree. I'm not at all worried about being shot when I go out in public. If you're not hanging around with people who might want to murder you, gangs, or drug kingpins then statistically you're more likely to be struck by lightning than you are to be killed with a firearm.

you're either trolling or straight up retarded if you think the US doesn't have a gun violence problem

look at literally every other developed country in the world man. this country has a weird obsession with guns and and gun violence problem. really not sure how people can deny this at this point

Craw_DaddyYou don't seem to know what "shall not be infringed" means so I'd chill on calling other people retarded. you retard.

"HUUURRRDURRR MY RIGHTS ARE UNLIMITED AND HAVE ZERO RESTRICTIONS. DATS WHY I CAN OWN RPG'S, GRENADES, A-10'S AND THE D-20 WITHOUT ANY SORTS OF RESTRICTIONS OR GOOBERMANT INTERFERANCE. IT SAYS IT IN CONSTITUTIONS!!!"

Elect a fascist, get fascist policies.

skierman"HUUURRRDURRR MY RIGHTS ARE UNLIMITED AND HAVE ZERO RESTRICTIONS. DATS WHY I CAN OWN RPG'S, GRENADES, A-10'S AND THE D-20 WITHOUT ANY SORTS OF RESTRICTIONS OR GOOBERMANT INTERFERANCE. IT SAYS IT IN CONSTITUTIONS!!!"

Excellent well rounded argument dude. Shapiro would be proud.

pissnu_skisExcellent well rounded argument dude. Shapiro would be proud.

what's your argument then? originalists are the stupidest of the stupid

SammyDubzyou're either trolling or straight up retarded if you think the US doesn't have a gun violence problem

look at literally every other developed country in the world man. this country has a weird obsession with guns and and gun violence problem. really not sure how people can deny this at this point

The ACTUAL facts about gun violence in America

There are about 30,000 gun related deaths per year by firearms, this number is not disputed. (1)

U.S. population 328 million as of January 2018. (2)

Do the math: 0.00915% of the population dies from gun related actions each year.

Statistically speaking, this is insignificant. It's not even a rounding error.

What is not insignificant, however, is a breakdown of those 30,000 deaths:

• 22,938 (76%) are by suicide which can't be prevented by gun laws (3)

• 987 (3%) are by law enforcement, thus not relevant to Gun Control discussion. (4)

• 489 (2%) are accidental (5)

So no, "gun violence" isn't 30,000 annually, but rather 5,577... 0.0017% of the population.

Still too many? Let's look at location:

298 (5%) - St Louis, MO (6)

327 (6%) - Detroit, MI (6)

328 (6%) - Baltimore, MD (6)

764 (14%) - Chicago, IL (6)

That's over 30% of all gun crime. In just 4 cities.

This leaves 3,856 for for everywhere else in America... about 77 deaths per state. Obviously some States have higher rates than others

Yes, 5,577 is absolutely horrific, but let's think for a minute...

But what about other deaths each year?

70,000+ die from a drug overdose (7)

49,000 people die per year from the flu (8)

37,000 people die per year in traffic fatalities (9)

Now it gets interesting:

250,000+ people die each year from preventable medical errors. (10) You are safer in Chicago than when you are in a hospital!

610,000 people die per year from heart disease (11) Even a 10% decrease in cardiac deaths would save about twice the number of lives annually of all gun-related deaths (including suicide, law enforcement, etc.).

A 10% reduction in medical errors would be 66% of the total gun deaths or 4 times the number of criminal homicides.

Simple, easily preventable, 10% reductions!

We don't have a gun problem... We have a political agenda and media sensationalism problem.

Here are some statistics about defensive gun use in the U.S. as well.

https://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/3#14

Page 15:

Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010).

That's a minimum 500,000 incidents/assaults deterred, if you were to play devil's advocate and say that only 10% of that low end number is accurate, then that is still more than the number of deaths, even including the suicides.

Older study, 1995:

https://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=6853&context=jclc

Page 164

The most technically sound estimates presented in Table 2 are those based on the shorter one-year recall period that rely on Rs' first-hand accounts of their own experiences (person-based estimates). These estimates appear in the first two columns. They indicate that each year in the U.S. there are about 2.2 to 2.5 million DGUs of all types by civilians against humans, with about 1.5 to 1.9 million of the incidents involving use of handguns.

r/dgu is a great sub to pay attention to, when you want to know whether or not someone is defensively using a gun

——sources——

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

https://everytownresearch.org/firearm-suicide/

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhamcs/web_tables/2015_ed_web_tables.pdf

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2017/?tid=a_inl_manual

https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-accidental-gun-deaths-20180101-story.html

https://247wallst.com/special-report/2018/11/13/cities-with-the-most-gun-violence/ (stats halved as reported statistics cover 2 years, single year statistics not found)

https://www.drugabuse.gov/related-topics/trends-statistics/overdose-death-rates

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/faq.htm

https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/812603

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html

https://www.cdc.gov/heartdisease/facts.htm

Craw_Daddy"Ghosting" a gun isn't a thing(this aint tinder bro) and ghost gun is an ambiguous term made up by Dems just like "assault weapons". Plenty of legally owned firearms don't have serial numbers. No one called them "ghost guns" until recently. Some guns are so old that their serial number just gets worn off. And apparently, you don't know how serial numbers work when you throw around terms like traceability like that's a legitimate thing in preventing gun violence. I've never had any of my guns serial numbers checked lol. And contrary to what CSI Miami told you, most people don't ditch their guns at the crime scene (not that it would matter if they filed the serial number off).

It's important for the people to maintain the ability to manufacture their own firearms because Democrats are trying to pass legislation that makes gun companies liable for crimes committed with the guns they manufactured which would allow them to be sued out of existence. EG no more guns could be manufactured. Also, we have this little thing called the 2nd amendment that says we can have guns, it doesn't mention serial numbers but it does say that it shall not be infringed...

**This post was edited on Apr 8th 2021 at 3:32:01pm

Craw_DaddyI disagree. I'm not at all worried about being shot when I go out in public. If you're not hanging around with people who might want to murder you, gangs, or drug kingpins then statistically you're more likely to be struck by lightning than you are to be killed with a firearm.

Oh my god it’s cause you live in the sticks you hillbilly! Like no shit of course you aren’t worried about being shot or robbed there’s probably more cows than people around you!

Humans develop critical thinking skills in adolescence- so you have them. Please start using them and understand that those laws aren’t being made to protect you and the double you live out of in the woods. They’re created for people who are actually exposed to violent crime involving guns (a lot of people living in lower income/ urban communities) Like ffs think outside your bubble dude, you come off as a total retard who only thinks about himself.

SammyDubzwhat's your argument then? originalists are the stupidest of the stupid

I’m not saying I’m an originalist, but I think this new order is pretty wacky. Imo the things that they are trying to ban are not a threat. Honestly man I never thought this thread would explode like this lmao

pissnu_skisI’m not saying I’m an originalist, but I think this new order is pretty wacky. Imo the things that they are trying to ban are not a threat. Honestly man I never thought this thread would explode like this lmao

Welcome to NS and literally anything political hahaha

Craw_DaddyThe ACTUAL facts about gun violence in America

There are about 30,000 gun related deaths per year by firearms, this number is not disputed. (1)

U.S. population 328 million as of January 2018. (2)

Do the math: 0.00915% of the population dies from gun related actions each year.

Statistically speaking, this is insignificant. It's not even a rounding error.

What is not insignificant, however, is a breakdown of those 30,000 deaths:

• 22,938 (76%) are by suicide which can't be prevented by gun laws (3)

• 987 (3%) are by law enforcement, thus not relevant to Gun Control discussion. (4)

• 489 (2%) are accidental (5)

So no, "gun violence" isn't 30,000 annually, but rather 5,577... 0.0017% of the population.

Still too many? Let's look at location:

298 (5%) - St Louis, MO (6)

327 (6%) - Detroit, MI (6)

328 (6%) - Baltimore, MD (6)

764 (14%) - Chicago, IL (6)

That's over 30% of all gun crime. In just 4 cities.

This leaves 3,856 for for everywhere else in America... about 77 deaths per state. Obviously some States have higher rates than others

Yes, 5,577 is absolutely horrific, but let's think for a minute...

But what about other deaths each year?

70,000+ die from a drug overdose (7)

49,000 people die per year from the flu (8)

37,000 people die per year in traffic fatalities (9)

Now it gets interesting:

250,000+ people die each year from preventable medical errors. (10) You are safer in Chicago than when you are in a hospital!

610,000 people die per year from heart disease (11) Even a 10% decrease in cardiac deaths would save about twice the number of lives annually of all gun-related deaths (including suicide, law enforcement, etc.).

A 10% reduction in medical errors would be 66% of the total gun deaths or 4 times the number of criminal homicides.

Simple, easily preventable, 10% reductions!

We don't have a gun problem... We have a political agenda and media sensationalism problem.

Here are some statistics about defensive gun use in the U.S. as well.

https://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/3#14

Page 15:

Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010).

That's a minimum 500,000 incidents/assaults deterred, if you were to play devil's advocate and say that only 10% of that low end number is accurate, then that is still more than the number of deaths, even including the suicides.

Older study, 1995:

https://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=6853&context=jclc

Page 164

The most technically sound estimates presented in Table 2 are those based on the shorter one-year recall period that rely on Rs' first-hand accounts of their own experiences (person-based estimates). These estimates appear in the first two columns. They indicate that each year in the U.S. there are about 2.2 to 2.5 million DGUs of all types by civilians against humans, with about 1.5 to 1.9 million of the incidents involving use of handguns.

r/dgu is a great sub to pay attention to, when you want to know whether or not someone is defensively using a gun

——sources——

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

https://everytownresearch.org/firearm-suicide/

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhamcs/web_tables/2015_ed_web_tables.pdf

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2017/?tid=a_inl_manual

https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-accidental-gun-deaths-20180101-story.html

https://247wallst.com/special-report/2018/11/13/cities-with-the-most-gun-violence/ (stats halved as reported statistics cover 2 years, single year statistics not found)

https://www.drugabuse.gov/related-topics/trends-statistics/overdose-death-rates

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/faq.htm

https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/812603

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html

https://www.cdc.gov/heartdisease/facts.htm

We can end this thread now. Facts don’t care about privileged white liberals feelings like @skierman who I might add is a virgin.

LonelyI don't really want to wade into the muck here, but to play devil's advocate here... couldn't the same be said for any voter identification or voting restriction laws? Or registering vehicles? Or a myriad of other things?

Something that I would also like to add...why aren't the individuals against gun control fighting hard to get marijuana decriminalized? That itself makes a huge portion of otherwise legal and responsible gun owners felons. Just look at what happened to Kyle Myers (FPS russia). It seems to me that the government making you a felon because you have guns and your roommate has bud is much more restrictive than not being allowed to have ghost guns.

I don't really want to get into a huge debate, because its largely pointless, but just some of my thoughts.

a. Voting is a right reserved for citizens, confirmation of that is important.
b. My vehicle interacts with hundreds of other vehicles on public roads on my daily commute, some oversight there makes sense. My guns only interaction with the public would be the slim chance their is a present threat. Also, the point of the right to bear arms is it serves as a citizens check on the government, the government knowing who has what hinders that.
c. Not sure why the marijuana point is made but I don't think this is as partisan of an issue as it's made out to be. Plenty conservatives, particularly the more libertarian breed, support legalization.

Young_pattyYou live in bum-fuck nowhere Michigan- so keep your raccoon gun, the government doesn’t care. Plus you aren’t using it for violent crimes (I’d hope) so it really doesn’t matter if you keep a pea shooter in your closet.

“it’s non of their damn business”

like bro you sound stupid as fuck, even if I was pro gun I’d be pissed that cretins like you make the whole movement look like a bunch of hillbilly’s.

I see we have quickly reached the state of discourse where we insult the opposition, nice move. Just want to let you know that the majority of my time is spent in the second largest city in the state and that no one who knows me personally would consider me to the dumb hick you want me to be.

Jerry.at.tricksIt has to be sent to an FFA

*FFL

r00kiea. Voting is a right reserved for citizens, confirmation of that is important.
b. My vehicle interacts with hundreds of other vehicles on public roads on my daily commute, some oversight there makes sense. My guns only interaction with the public would be the slim chance their is a present threat. Also, the point of the right to bear arms is it serves as a citizens check on the government, the government knowing who has what hinders that.
c. Not sure why the marijuana point is made but I don't think this is as partisan of an issue as it's made out to be. Plenty conservatives, particularly the more libertarian breed, support legalization.




I see we have quickly reached the state of discourse where we insult the opposition, nice move. Just want to let you know that the majority of my time is spent in the second largest city in the state and that no one who knows me personally would consider me to the dumb hick you want me to be.

You don’t have a counter argument and you’re too ignorant to look at the bigger picture. Thats really why it’s over. Like wow you work in Grand Rapids? Crazy city I’ve heard, if you ever make it over to Detroit ask them how they feel about ghost guns and violent crime- it might actually open your mind a little.

Young_pattyOh my god it’s cause you live in the sticks you hillbilly! Like no shit of course you aren’t worried about being shot or robbed there’s probably more cows than people around you!

Humans develop critical thinking skills in adolescence- so you have them. Please start using them and understand that those laws aren’t being made to protect you and the double you live out of in the woods. They’re created for people who are actually exposed to violent crime involving guns (a lot of people living in lower income/ urban communities) Like ffs think outside your bubble dude, you come off as a total retard who only thinks about himself.

I actually live in the suburbs of Denver about 30 - 45 mins away from where the shooting in boulder took place. Good guess though.

Craw_DaddyThe ACTUAL facts about gun violence in America

I agree there's a huge problem with media sensationalism in general and relating to this issue especially looking at the stats you posted. I think its a distraction from the bigger problems with this country and media focus on it because of how passionate people are and how no meaningful change can happen with how divided the public is.

I don't get how comparing it with other issues and death rates in our country makes it a non issue? Just because statistically you're not likely to be killed by a gun doesn't mean its not a problem. There are still more people dying to guns compared to other first world nations. That is a problem. Its shitty whenever someone tries to talk about fixing that by regulation then people immediately jump to the tyrannical government taking away the second ammendment.

I'd also argue that suicide can't be separated from gun violence and makes the choice to take your own life easier and more instantaneous.

Remember when our country was less of a shithole when Trump was president?!

I DO

iFlip*FFL

Haha thanks I noticed that too but was too late to edit

Young_pattyYou don’t have a counter argument and you’re too ignorant to look at the bigger picture. Thats really why it’s over. Like wow you work in Grand Rapids? Crazy city I’ve heard, if you ever make it over to Detroit ask them how they feel about ghost guns and violent crime- it might actually open your mind a little.

Don't need a counter argument when no argument was presented. You just hurled insults based on incorrect assumptions.

Craw_DaddyThe ACTUAL facts about gun violence in America

There are about 30,000 gun related deaths per year by firearms, this number is not disputed. (1)

U.S. population 328 million as of January 2018. (2)

Do the math: 0.00915% of the population dies from gun related actions each year.

Statistically speaking, this is insignificant. It's not even a rounding error.

What is not insignificant, however, is a breakdown of those 30,000 deaths:

• 22,938 (76%) are by suicide which can't be prevented by gun laws (3)

• 987 (3%) are by law enforcement, thus not relevant to Gun Control discussion. (4)

• 489 (2%) are accidental (5)

So no, "gun violence" isn't 30,000 annually, but rather 5,577... 0.0017% of the population.

Still too many? Let's look at location:

298 (5%) - St Louis, MO (6)

327 (6%) - Detroit, MI (6)

328 (6%) - Baltimore, MD (6)

764 (14%) - Chicago, IL (6)

That's over 30% of all gun crime. In just 4 cities.

This leaves 3,856 for for everywhere else in America... about 77 deaths per state. Obviously some States have higher rates than others

Yes, 5,577 is absolutely horrific, but let's think for a minute...

But what about other deaths each year?

70,000+ die from a drug overdose (7)

49,000 people die per year from the flu (8)

37,000 people die per year in traffic fatalities (9)

Now it gets interesting:

250,000+ people die each year from preventable medical errors. (10) You are safer in Chicago than when you are in a hospital!

610,000 people die per year from heart disease (11) Even a 10% decrease in cardiac deaths would save about twice the number of lives annually of all gun-related deaths (including suicide, law enforcement, etc.).

A 10% reduction in medical errors would be 66% of the total gun deaths or 4 times the number of criminal homicides.

Simple, easily preventable, 10% reductions!

We don't have a gun problem... We have a political agenda and media sensationalism problem.

Here are some statistics about defensive gun use in the U.S. as well.

https://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/3#14

Page 15:

Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010).

That's a minimum 500,000 incidents/assaults deterred, if you were to play devil's advocate and say that only 10% of that low end number is accurate, then that is still more than the number of deaths, even including the suicides.

Older study, 1995:

https://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=6853&context=jclc

Page 164

The most technically sound estimates presented in Table 2 are those based on the shorter one-year recall period that rely on Rs' first-hand accounts of their own experiences (person-based estimates). These estimates appear in the first two columns. They indicate that each year in the U.S. there are about 2.2 to 2.5 million DGUs of all types by civilians against humans, with about 1.5 to 1.9 million of the incidents involving use of handguns.

r/dgu is a great sub to pay attention to, when you want to know whether or not someone is defensively using a gun

——sources——

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

https://everytownresearch.org/firearm-suicide/

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhamcs/web_tables/2015_ed_web_tables.pdf

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2017/?tid=a_inl_manual

https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-accidental-gun-deaths-20180101-story.html

https://247wallst.com/special-report/2018/11/13/cities-with-the-most-gun-violence/ (stats halved as reported statistics cover 2 years, single year statistics not found)

https://www.drugabuse.gov/related-topics/trends-statistics/overdose-death-rates

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/faq.htm

https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/812603

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html

https://www.cdc.gov/heartdisease/facts.htm

AndrewGravesSVI agree there's a huge problem with media sensationalism in general and relating to this issue especially looking at the stats you posted. I think its a distraction from the bigger problems with this country and media focus on it because of how passionate people are and how no meaningful change can happen with how divided the public is.

I don't get how comparing it with other issues and death rates in our country makes it a non issue? Just because statistically you're not likely to be killed by a gun doesn't mean its not a problem. There are still more people dying to guns compared to other first world nations. That is a problem. Its shitty whenever someone tries to talk about fixing that by regulation then people immediately jump to the tyrannical government taking away the second ammendment.

I'd also argue that suicide can't be separated from gun violence and makes the choice to take your own life easier and more instantaneous.

^^. none of the stats/data you put out there to support your argument are relevant to the problem at hand. I would take a look at these two datasets and explore further how bad the us is when it comes to gun violence in comparison to our first world counterparts. this is the relevant data.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/suicide-rate-by-firearm

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/homicide-rates-from-firearms

It’s going to be pretty neat when that cop gets acquitted for that alleged murder of George Floyd.


Is this the new ahit posting thread ?

AndrewGravesSVI'd also argue that suicide can't be separated from gun violence and makes the choice to take your own life easier and more instantaneous.

Well, we could debate philosophy all day but that won't change the fact that shooting yourself and shooting someone else are two categorically different things.

zuesIt’s going to be pretty neat when that cop gets acquitted for that alleged murder of George Floyd.


Is this the new ahit posting thread ?

Stop, please and thank you.

SammyDubz^^. none of the stats/data you put out there to support your argument are relevant to the problem at hand. I would take a look at these two datasets and explore further how bad the us is when it comes to gun violence in comparison to our first world counterparts. this is the relevant data.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/suicide-rate-by-firearm

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/homicide-rates-from-firearms

I think I have the solution to all of this. We should just make murder illegal!

r00kieStop, please and thank you.

Lol it’s going to happen though. Guess the media lied to everyone. WHAT A SURPRISE.

Craw_DaddyWell, we could debate philosophy all day but that won't change the fact that shooting yourself and shooting someone else are two categorically different things.

This isn’t a philosophical question. There is an inextricable link between US gun ownership and suicide rates. This has been heavily researched and peer reviewed by the best professors at the best research institutions across America. I can link you to some if you want, but a simple google search turns up a lot of good ones.

Craw_DaddyI think I have the solution to all of this. We should just make murder illegal!

Willful ignorance it is.

Craw_DaddyWell, we could debate philosophy all day but that won't change the fact that shooting yourself and shooting someone else are two categorically different things.

Im saying both fall under gun violence because people are killing people using guns. Guns make it easy to kill people.

SammyDubzThis isn’t a philosophical question. There is an inextricable link between US gun ownership and suicide rates. This has been heavily researched and peer reviewed by the best professors at the best research institutions across America. I can link you to some if you want, but a simple google search turns up a lot of good ones.

Suicide is not an act of violence.

SammyDubzWillful ignorance it is.

I mean you seem to be the one who lives in constant fear of getting shot despite several sources telling you that it's highly unlikely. That seems pretty ignorant to me. Are quicksand and bears also major sources of anxiety for you? Maybe you should seek some professional help.

AndrewGravesSVIm saying both fall under gun violence because people are killing people using guns. Guns make it easy to kill people.

suicide isn't an act of violence

Craw_DaddySuicide is not an act of violence.

I mean you seem to be the one who lives in constant fear of getting shot despite several sources telling you that it's highly unlikely. That seems pretty ignorant to me. Are quicksand and bears also major sources of anxiety for you? Maybe you should seek some professional help.

gotta pay the troll toll to get to this boy's soul!

Craw_Daddysuicide isn't an act of violence

I'm gonna have to disagree with ya on that claim. However I do agree that using suicide death by firearm is a deceiving stat as most of those cases would have found another means if a gun were not available.

Guns are dangerous.

But you're a straight pussy to shoot someone. I'll force feed the fuck out of you like 300K other Americans and kill you slowly like all my other american brothers

zuesWe can end this thread now. Facts don’t care about privileged white liberals feelings like @skierman who I might add is a virgin.

The 2 downvotes sum up liberal ideologies pretty well. “Hey look at these relevant stats we will completely ignore while pushing an agenda that is supported by a tiny subset of the population.”

**This post was edited on Apr 8th 2021 at 6:56:38pm

might catch shit for this but I feel like politics doesn’t have a place in NS

c4demight catch shit for this but I feel like politics doesn’t have a place in NS

No one is forced to open political threads and engage in the discussion.

DrZoidbergI like gun regulation in general but the pistol brace thing seems kinda silly. Not that I was there but I'd imagine the dude who shot up King Soopers was going to kill people whether or not he had a stabilizer on his pistol. They make it sound like it's COD, where a stabilizer is like +3 mass murder ability.

I've never shot a pistol with or without such an attachment so I wouldn't know if it actually makes that much of a difference. I'd imagine it would for those people who do pistol shooting contests, but less so for a mass murderer, not to the point where it'd make or break their ability to shoot people. I feel like they could direct a law of this nature at something more impactful.

In the general reference of pistol, AR pistols are on a whole different level. I've never had a desire to have one since there really is no point other than maximum portability and effectiveness in small spaces. It's essentially an AR (of various calibers) with a super short barrel and brace for stability since you're literally shooting a rifle round out of a 9-10" barrel. The pistol brace was required by the atf to make it "legal" (someone correct me if I'm wrong) since it is so portable. You could easily conceal under a jacket. The pistol brace also helps keep you on the gun so if someone tries to fight you, it is gonna be easier to keep your gun versus if you had a gun that wasn't strapped to your forearm. Generally they fire 556 ammo which is about half the weight of a 9mm round but travels 3x as fast. Those ballistics make 556 super effective and easy to shoot for amateurs. I pray to God no psychopaths ever discover 7.62x39 or 7.62x51.

But yes +3 modifier for mobility but -3 modifier for accuracy at distance. Someone could easily dual wield these with 100rd drum mags if they wanted.

r00kieNo one is forced to open political threads and engage in the discussion.

nobody forced you to agree with my opinion lmfao

HypeBeastIn the general reference of pistol, AR pistols are on a whole different level. I've never had a desire to have one since there really is no point other than maximum portability and effectiveness in small spaces. It's essentially an AR (of various calibers) with a super short barrel and brace for stability since you're literally shooting a rifle round out of a 9-10" barrel. The pistol brace was required by the atf to make it "legal" (someone correct me if I'm wrong) since it is so portable. You could easily conceal under a jacket. The pistol brace also helps keep you on the gun so if someone tries to fight you, it is gonna be easier to keep your gun versus if you had a gun that wasn't strapped to your forearm. Generally they fire 556 ammo which is about half the weight of a 9mm round but travels 3x as fast. Those ballistics make 556 super effective and easy to shoot for amateurs. I pray to God no psychopaths ever discover 7.62x39 or 7.62x51.

But yes +3 modifier for mobility but -3 modifier for accuracy at distance. Someone could easily dual wield these with 100rd drum mags if they wanted.

Imma keep my political opinions off ns, but I'll correct you on the pistol brace part. Before modern pistol braces existed people were running them with nothing but bare buffer tubes or buffer tubes with a neoprene sleeve. No regulation on portability. The pistol brace came about as an aid to people who have weaker wrist strength so they could shoot ar pistols without issues. Then, the mainstream ar shooting public realized you could shoulder the brace like a stock, and avoid the sbr tax stamp that would be required if they used a traditional stock. The majority of ar pistol brace users are not actually strapping them to their forearms.
Another quick correction- Below 10" barrel 5.56 starts to lose muzzle velocity so it is losing in popularity to .300 blk.

The funny thing is that 80% lowers and pistols aren't cheap, or really easy to build. Criminals want easy. They are way more likely to get a Hi-point with the serial number filed off than build an 80% Glock. 80% AR's are an even bigger pain in the ass. Like, I own and enjoy firearms. But fuck building an 80%. It costs more than just going and buying one.

Craw_DaddyThe ACTUAL facts about gun violence in America

There are about 30,000 gun related deaths per year by firearms, this number is not disputed. (1)

U.S. population 328 million as of January 2018. (2)

Do the math: 0.00915% of the population dies from gun related actions each year.

Statistically speaking, this is insignificant. It's not even a rounding error.

What is not insignificant, however, is a breakdown of those 30,000 deaths:

• 22,938 (76%) are by suicide which can't be prevented by gun laws (3)

• 987 (3%) are by law enforcement, thus not relevant to Gun Control discussion. (4)

• 489 (2%) are accidental (5)

So no, "gun violence" isn't 30,000 annually, but rather 5,577... 0.0017% of the population.

Still too many? Let's look at location:

298 (5%) - St Louis, MO (6)

327 (6%) - Detroit, MI (6)

328 (6%) - Baltimore, MD (6)

764 (14%) - Chicago, IL (6)

That's over 30% of all gun crime. In just 4 cities.

This leaves 3,856 for for everywhere else in America... about 77 deaths per state. Obviously some States have higher rates than others

Yes, 5,577 is absolutely horrific, but let's think for a minute...

But what about other deaths each year?

70,000+ die from a drug overdose (7)

49,000 people die per year from the flu (8)

37,000 people die per year in traffic fatalities (9)

Now it gets interesting:

250,000+ people die each year from preventable medical errors. (10) You are safer in Chicago than when you are in a hospital!

610,000 people die per year from heart disease (11) Even a 10% decrease in cardiac deaths would save about twice the number of lives annually of all gun-related deaths (including suicide, law enforcement, etc.).

A 10% reduction in medical errors would be 66% of the total gun deaths or 4 times the number of criminal homicides.

Simple, easily preventable, 10% reductions!

We don't have a gun problem... We have a political agenda and media sensationalism problem.

Here are some statistics about defensive gun use in the U.S. as well.

https://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/3#14

Page 15:

Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010).

That's a minimum 500,000 incidents/assaults deterred, if you were to play devil's advocate and say that only 10% of that low end number is accurate, then that is still more than the number of deaths, even including the suicides.

Older study, 1995:

https://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=6853&context=jclc

Page 164

The most technically sound estimates presented in Table 2 are those based on the shorter one-year recall period that rely on Rs' first-hand accounts of their own experiences (person-based estimates). These estimates appear in the first two columns. They indicate that each year in the U.S. there are about 2.2 to 2.5 million DGUs of all types by civilians against humans, with about 1.5 to 1.9 million of the incidents involving use of handguns.

r/dgu is a great sub to pay attention to, when you want to know whether or not someone is defensively using a gun

——sources——

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

https://everytownresearch.org/firearm-suicide/

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhamcs/web_tables/2015_ed_web_tables.pdf

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2017/?tid=a_inl_manual

https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-accidental-gun-deaths-20180101-story.html

https://247wallst.com/special-report/2018/11/13/cities-with-the-most-gun-violence/ (stats halved as reported statistics cover 2 years, single year statistics not found)

https://www.drugabuse.gov/related-topics/trends-statistics/overdose-death-rates

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/faq.htm

https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/812603

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html

https://www.cdc.gov/heartdisease/facts.htm

I agree with you that deaths from firearms are less frequent than other preventable deaths from obesity, overdoses, etc. But according to the CDC, 13,958 firearm-related deaths in 2018 were homicides. Idk if that includes police shootings but I thought I'd mention it.

r00kiea. Voting is a right reserved for citizens, confirmation of that is important.
b. My vehicle interacts with hundreds of other vehicles on public roads on my daily commute, some oversight there makes sense. My guns only interaction with the public would be the slim chance their is a present threat. Also, the point of the right to bear arms is it serves as a citizens check on the government, the government knowing who has what hinders that.
c. Not sure why the marijuana point is made but I don't think this is as partisan of an issue as it's made out to be. Plenty conservatives, particularly the more libertarian breed, support legalization.




I see we have quickly reached the state of discourse where we insult the opposition, nice move. Just want to let you know that the majority of my time is spent in the second largest city in the state and that no one who knows me personally would consider me to the dumb hick you want me to be.

Just to be completely clear here...

Voting is not a Right.

Voting is a privilege.

T.L.Just to be completely clear here...

Voting is not a Right.

Voting is a privilege.

Excuse me?

r00kieExcuse me?

Nowhere in the constitution does it say voting is a right.

T.L.Nowhere in the constitution does it say voting is a right.

Thats a wording I would be supportive of changing.