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Vail cuts Epic Pass prices by 20% for next season

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Notaskibum
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https://theknow.denverpost.com/2021/03/23/epic-pass-price-reduced-20-percent/255098/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Epic local at $583 and the main one at $783

I'm looking forward to saving a few bucks but y'all are inevitably gonna complain about more people skiing (*gasp what a terrible thing*)

**This thread was edited on Mar 23rd 2021 at 1:40:55pm
Mar 23 2021 1:38PM
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eheath
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I think that link is broken, I tried to fix your thing but vail pushed their announcement back because of the shootings in boulder. Post the link if you have it, just skip that URL embed.
Mar 23 2021 1:42PM
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Notaskibum
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eheathI think that link is broken, I tried to fix your thing but vail pushed their announcement back because of the shootings in boulder. Post the link if you have it, just skip that URL embed.


Try this one:

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:kRLeBfKoarsJ:https://theknow.denverpost.com/2021/03/23/epic-pass-price-reduced-20-percent/255098/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
Mar 23 2021 1:43PM
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BrandoComando
Posts: 1484 - Karma: 18,676
Bold strategy. I'm curious how this is going to play out.

Despite the reservation system, this was by far the most crowded season I've ever experienced at Epic resorts. Next year, passes will be cheaper and the reservation system will be eliminated. Peak days are going to be absolutely slammed at the destination locations.

Maybe Vail is forecasting that people will have less free time next season as other activities open up again, and they're trying to retain the huge number of new customers that they earned this year.
Mar 23 2021 1:49PM
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Notaskibum
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BrandoComandoBold strategy. I'm curious how this is going to play out.

Despite the reservation system, this was by far the most crowded season I've ever experienced at Epic resorts. Next year, passes will be cheaper and the reservation system will be eliminated. Peak days are going to be absolutely slammed at the destination locations.

Maybe Vail is forecasting that people will have less free time next season as other activities open up again, and they're trying to retain the huge number of new customers that they earned this year.


We've been over this already. skier visits were down 8% at epic resorts year over year. The only reason it felt crowded is because of not packing people into the lifts like normal.

**This post was edited on Mar 23rd 2021 at 1:56:40pm
Mar 23 2021 1:55PM
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eheath
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NotaskibumWe've been over this already. skier visits were down 8% at epic resorts year over year. The only reason it felt crowded is because of not packing people into the lifts like normal.

**This post was edited on Mar 23rd 2021 at 1:56:40pm


I mean you can't really assume every resort has the same experience. Whistler for example is a huge chunk of that 8%, would be interested to see a resort by resort breakdown of skier visits.
Mar 23 2021 2:08PM
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BrandoComando
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NotaskibumWe've been over this already. skier visits were down 8% at epic resorts year over year. The only reason it felt crowded is because of not packing people into the lifts like normal.

**This post was edited on Mar 23rd 2021 at 1:56:40pm


Fair enough. Although I'd be interested to see the stats on a resort-by-resort basis. Speaking from personal experience, I think a number of smaller resorts saw an increase in visitors.

For example, I spent most of my season at Kirkwood this year. It's overshadowed by Heavenly and Northstar as the two major Epic pass resorts in Tahoe. This is great for me, because the wood is amazing and it doesn't get the same crowds as the larger resorts.

This year, however, it was different. Reservations filled up at Northstar and Heavenly during all the peak holidays and weekends. Visitors who missed out on a reservation at one of the big resorts still wanted to ski, so they made their reservation at the only other Epic resort in the area - Kirkwood. I am confident that Kirkwood's visits were up this year over the last few years

And I know it was more crowded than ever not because of the lines, but because of the parking. There was a Saturday where they had cars parked throughout all the parking lots, along the entire meadows loop, and on both sides of hwy 88 all the way to Caples Lake. That doesn't happen other years.

And I know it's selfish to wish for fewer crowds. More people skiing is better for the sport. But if that's the case, they need to improve infrastructure at the smaller resorts that aren't equipped to handle that amount of people.
Mar 23 2021 2:12PM
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Notaskibum
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eheathI mean you can't really assume every resort has the same experience. Whistler for example is a huge chunk of that 8%, would be interested to see a resort by resort breakdown of skier visits.


I think its a fair pushback, i'm certain some of the resorts were actually up. But vail has like 37 resorts. Even if whistler is say .. 5% of those visits on a normal year and was down 50% thats only 2.5% of the 8%.
Mar 23 2021 2:14PM
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Notaskibum
Posts: 848 - Karma: 3,968
BrandoComandoFair enough. Although I'd be interested to see the stats on a resort-by-resort basis. Speaking from personal experience, I think a number of smaller resorts saw an increase in visitors.

For example, I spent most of my season at Kirkwood this year. It's overshadowed by Heavenly and Northstar as the two major Epic pass resorts in Tahoe. This is great for me, because the wood is amazing and it doesn't get the same crowds as the larger resorts.

This year, however, it was different. Reservations filled up at Northstar and Heavenly during all the peak holidays and weekends. Visitors who missed out on a reservation at one of the big resorts still wanted to ski, so they made their reservation at the only other Epic resort in the area - Kirkwood. I am confident that Kirkwood's visits were up this year over the last few years

And I know it was more crowded than ever not because of the lines, but because of the parking. There was a Saturday where they had cars parked throughout all the parking lots, along the entire meadows loop, and on both sides of hwy 88 all the way to Caples Lake. That doesn't happen other years.

And I know it's selfish to wish for fewer crowds. More people skiing is better for the sport. But if that's the case, they need to improve infrastructure at the smaller resorts that aren't equipped to handle that amount of people.


thats fair too. i would also say however that parking could be up because fewer people were carpooling, taking the bus, etc due to covid risk.
Mar 23 2021 2:16PM
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eheath
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NotaskibumI think its a fair pushback, i'm certain some of the resorts were actually up. But vail has like 37 resorts. Even if whistler is say .. 5% of those visits on a normal year and was down 50% thats only 2.5% of the 8%.


Im looking forward to seeing utahs skier days, Vail certainly isn't the most popular in Utah, but Utah has been busier than ever. Like others said, its not lift lines, its traffic, parking, etc that is the indicator.
Mar 23 2021 2:17PM
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eheath
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Notaskibumi would also say however that parking could be up because fewer people were carpooling, taking the bus, etc due to covid risk.


I dont think this is true, but I have no way to prove it. Everyone I know is riding in cars with their friends, I dont think thats a huge issue. Same with busses, I ride the bus to ski almost every time and the bus is full by the time we get to the resort, whether its 8am or 12pm.
Mar 23 2021 2:19PM
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GKS
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obligatory fuck Vail
Mar 23 2021 2:20PM
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Notaskibum
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eheathI dont think this is true, but I have no way to prove it. Everyone I know is riding in cars with their friends, I dont think thats a huge issue. Same with busses, I ride the bus to ski almost every time and the bus is full by the time we get to the resort, whether its 8am or 12pm.


The utah bus service provides its ridership data online. One of these days i'll get bored and crunch an answer for you.
Mar 23 2021 2:30PM
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Rparr
Posts: 5115 - Karma: 38,095
a 20% cheaper pass won't change the fact that they gutted the parks at my home hill.

The park crew here had to pay 700$ out of their own paychecks to finish a rail that they started constructing 2 years ago. Vail wouldn't give them even a dime to finish it.

Luckily there is a great place that isn't owned by vail pretty close to me. The parks are far better there. I know where I'll be net year.
Mar 23 2021 2:33PM
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VT_scratch
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I wonder if they'll have more sales because of this or not. It's hard to imagine Whistler being any busier than it was this season... but crazier things have happened.
Mar 23 2021 3:43PM
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eheath
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VT_scratchI wonder if they'll have more sales because of this or not. It's hard to imagine Whistler being any busier than it was this season... but crazier things have happened.


Whistler had probably the least amount of skier days in a while, seeing as international to canada travel was closed off.
Mar 23 2021 4:00PM
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TreyDudski
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Has anybody seen the results of like money made this season by EPIC passes and IKON passes... I would like to see the numbers.

But like someone said above, lift lines seem maybe a little longer but normal in some places but parking and traffic is getting gnarly as ever. Skiing up little cottonwood canyon on a pow day is one of the hardest things to do just getting to the resort.
Mar 23 2021 4:03PM
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VT_scratch
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eheathWhistler had probably the least amount of skier days in a while, seeing as international to canada travel was closed off.


Yeah but we def felt that more people local to BC and Canada in general who typically wouldn't have gone to whistler all of the sudden picked up the sport. No one could travel outside of Canada so everyone planned trips to Whistler. Gondolas start running t 830am and we would have to line up by 630 am on a pow day this year. You should see how fucked the lines were here (I imagine they were in Utah as well?)

You can partially attribute the longer lines to social distancing, but no man I'm telling you the lines have been insane and we have to get to the mountain an hour earlier than ever before.

here's a small preview on a normal semi pow day

https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/998303/RPReplay-Final1616530599-MP4
Mar 23 2021 4:21PM
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eheath
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VT_scratchYeah but we def felt that more people local to BC and Canada in general who typically wouldn't have gone to whistler all of the sudden picked up the sport. No one could travel outside of Canada so everyone planned trips to Whistler. Gondolas start running t 830am and we would have to line up by 630 am on a pow day this year. You should see how fucked the lines were here (I imagine they were in Utah as well?)

You can partially attribute the longer lines to social distancing, but no man I'm telling you the lines have been insane and we have to get to the mountain an hour earlier than ever before.

here's a small preview on a normal semi pow day

https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/998303/RPReplay-Final1616530599-MP4


I think i saw something that whistler was down like 40% though. There is certainly a sense of more people because 1. the lifts cant fill up 2. lines are spaced out and 3. more locals are skiing. But whistler is down this year due to no international travel.
Mar 23 2021 4:27PM
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Notaskibum
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TreyDudskiHas anybody seen the results of like money made this season by EPIC passes and IKON passes... I would like to see the numbers.

But like someone said above, lift lines seem maybe a little longer but normal in some places but parking and traffic is getting gnarly as ever. Skiing up little cottonwood canyon on a pow day is one of the hardest things to do just getting to the resort.


For epic - they sold 20% more passes this year but made no more money (because they rolled over some passes from last year). They made 28.4% less this past quarter compared to the same quarter last year. They make $913.1 million a year off of lift tickets and passes. They do ~7M skier visits a year and 70% of those are people with passes. Assuming ~100$ a ticket (probably low but whatever) that means they make ~$700M a year off epic passes.
Mar 23 2021 4:35PM
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Notaskibum
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eheathI think i saw something that whistler was down like 40% though. There is certainly a sense of more people because 1. the lifts cant fill up 2. lines are spaced out and 3. more locals are skiing. But whistler is down this year due to no international travel.



Heres the whister context from their earnings.

Results at Whistler Blackcomb were disproportionately impacted throughout the second fiscal quarter due to the Canadian border remaining closed to international guests (including guests from the U.S.), with destination guests, including international visitors, declining to 15% of Whistler Blackcomb visits (excluding complimentary access), which compares to 48% in the same period in the prior year."

While our U.S. resorts saw material improvements in financial performance since the peak holiday period, Whistler Blackcomb's financial performance continues to be severely impacted by the continued closure of Canadian borders to international travel, a trend that will likely continue through the rest of the season."


I think more locals skiing #3 could especially make it seem like the gondolas and steeps where busy. The normal tourists gapers are all skiing the bunny hill or whatever and they didn't ski this year but they were replaced by hardcore locals etc.
Mar 23 2021 4:40PM
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TOAST.
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Pretty sure my home resort had an increase in profits this year. At capacity every weekend except March and bare bones staffing.
Going off the parking lots they were consistently more full than past years. Usually there is one day a year where the lots overflow, which did not happen this year but were always full.

Everyone has to remember that vail acquired a large population by buying the Peak Resorts, so here comes everyone from the East Coast to you guys out west. On top of that people that live on the east that "only ski real mountains" for a week every year are now skiing the local tiny hills more.
Mar 23 2021 7:04PM
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theabortionator
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Fuck bobby katz and his epic pass. If you live near it it's whatever but vail sucks. Worked for them for 5 years. Also shoutout to getting lunches deducted while not being allowed to take lunches, getting paid less than taco bell entry wage to run a 300-400k machine. What's not to love.

It's nice what they've done with beaver creek, big boulder and other parks. I trust their judgement.
Mar 23 2021 8:26PM
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BradFiAusNzCoCa
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Really curious to see the SAMinfo.com (ski area management) stats about this season
Mar 24 2021 4:42AM
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armchair_skier
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As someone looking to ski NE for most of my season then move out west for the spring, this is fantastic news for me :)
Mar 24 2021 6:11AM
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losh
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TreyDudskiHas anybody seen the results of like money made this season by EPIC passes and IKON passes... I would like to see the numbers.

But like someone said above, lift lines seem maybe a little longer but normal in some places but parking and traffic is getting gnarly as ever. Skiing up little cottonwood canyon on a pow day is one of the hardest things to do just getting to the resort.


I always heard how bad the traffic was going up Cottonwood canyon, and this season I finally got there and omg its hilariously not bad. I mean the canyon to alta is literally like 12 miles long, it's borderline walking distance. I'm sure it can feel inconvenient but man you guys absolutely have it made in SLC, like the difference between no traffic and bad traffic literally cant be more than 20 minutes on a good day to about an hour or so on a bad day out of the canyon. I'd give my left nut for an hour on a good day in colorado. I mean I guess I could be wrong but goddamn 12 miles of traffic vs 60-100miles is an absolute cakewalk.
Mar 25 2021 6:44PM
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eheath
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loshI always heard how bad the traffic was going up Cottonwood canyon, and this season I finally got there and omg its hilariously not bad. I mean the canyon to alta is literally like 12 miles long, it's borderline walking distance. I'm sure it can feel inconvenient but man you guys absolutely have it made in SLC, like the difference between no traffic and bad traffic literally cant be more than 20 minutes on a good day to about an hour or so on a bad day out of the canyon. I'd give my left nut for an hour on a good day in colorado. I mean I guess I could be wrong but goddamn 12 miles of traffic vs 60-100miles is an absolute cakewalk.


Thats why we live in utah and not colorado my dude.
Mar 25 2021 7:12PM
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theabortionator
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loshI always heard how bad the traffic was going up Cottonwood canyon, and this season I finally got there and omg its hilariously not bad. I mean the canyon to alta is literally like 12 miles long, it's borderline walking distance. I'm sure it can feel inconvenient but man you guys absolutely have it made in SLC, like the difference between no traffic and bad traffic literally cant be more than 20 minutes on a good day to about an hour or so on a bad day out of the canyon. I'd give my left nut for an hour on a good day in colorado. I mean I guess I could be wrong but goddamn 12 miles of traffic vs 60-100miles is an absolute cakewalk.

You can live other places then denver in CO. If your skiing weekends living in denver it is what it is. Especially on pow days
Mar 25 2021 10:02PM
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losh
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eheathThats why we live in utah and not colorado my dude.


Oh I get it, prolly my next move. I didn't know it would be like this when I was 18 and moved here, but I deal with it, not the end of the world. But I'm just recently finding out how much more easily accessible skiing is in other parts of the country.
Mar 29 2021 5:21PM
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Notaskibum
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The referenced post has been removed.

This isn't cool yo.
Mar 29 2021 8:43PM
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Film.
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loshI always heard how bad the traffic was going up Cottonwood canyon, and this season I finally got there and omg its hilariously not bad. I mean the canyon to alta is literally like 12 miles long, it's borderline walking distance. I'm sure it can feel inconvenient but man you guys absolutely have it made in SLC, like the difference between no traffic and bad traffic literally cant be more than 20 minutes on a good day to about an hour or so on a bad day out of the canyon. I'd give my left nut for an hour on a good day in colorado. I mean I guess I could be wrong but goddamn 12 miles of traffic vs 60-100miles is an absolute cakewalk.

And unlike Colorado pretending the state isn't going to grow and keeping I-70 as an already treacherous 2 lane highway that went to shit anytime it snowed going all the way back to 2005 when there were 1.5 million less people in the state. Utah is actually planning for the future. https://www.deseret.com/utah/2021/1/17/22227607/salt-lake-ski-areas-gov-spencer-cox-gondola-wasatch-canyon-little-cottonwood-canyon-alta-snowbird

Say what you want about the mormons their roads are efficient.
Mar 30 2021 12:49PM
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eheath
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Film.And unlike Colorado pretending the state isn't going to grow and keeping I-70 as an already treacherous 2 lane highway that went to shit anytime it snowed going all the way back to 2005 when there were 1.5 million less people in the state. Utah is actually planning for the future. https://www.deseret.com/utah/2021/1/17/22227607/salt-lake-ski-areas-gov-spencer-cox-gondola-wasatch-canyon-little-cottonwood-canyon-alta-snowbird

Say what you want about the mormons their roads are efficient.


We can praise them when they actually do something, the cottonwoods are nowhere near being fixed.

**This post was edited on Mar 30th 2021 at 1:17:20pm
Mar 30 2021 12:51PM
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BrandoComando
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Film.Say what you want about the mormons their roads are efficient.

Having lived in California and Nevada my whole life, I was really impressed with the roads and infrastructure throughout the SLC area. The civil engineers and UDOT planners have done a great job - at least compared to CA and NV. Anyone who's driven around LA, Sacramento, the Bay Area, or even through Reno's adorably-named "spaghetti bowl" will notice how little foresight was given to expansion and traffic management. Utah knew what they were doing. I won't comment on LCC, because I think that's a separate issue. But the Utah highway system is really well done.
Mar 30 2021 1:06PM
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Film.
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eheathWe can praise them when they actually do something, the cottonwoods is nowhere near being fixed.

Hey at least they are planning, thats a step in the right direction. Cdot really let 1.5 million move in, in the last 15 years almost all in the Denver metro area and their solution has been to let people drive on the shoulder of I-70 as a toll that's closed majority of the time.
Mar 30 2021 1:18PM
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