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Playful All-mountain ski for the Alps

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lumi3456
Posts: 6 - Karma: 13
Hi everyone,

This is my first post so apologies if I missed some rules.

I am 25m 6'2 159 lbs/ 188 cm 72 kg based in Austria. I come more from a racing background and used to ski world cup slalom and giant slalom race skis, before I wanted to explore a bit more playful style of skiing. I consider myself an expert type of skier and can confidently ski every terrain I encounter on my home mountains (no couloirs and no super steep techy routes).

I own an Atomic Bent chetler 120 in 184cm for touring and the occasional deep day in the resort, which I enjoy a lot.

I also recently got a Nordica Enforcer 104 in 191 cm for those not super deep days or when the snow is already chopped up.
Those are great carvers for their width and they track phenomenally through rougher snow but due to their weight I presume they can be a handful in the trees and they are less playful than I originally hoped.

I am looking for a playful all-mountain ski that I would use primarily on soft-snow days that, for their width, would give a surfy feel in moderately deep snow and which can easily slash and slarve in softer conditions (i think the E104 lacks a bit in that regard) and which I can use to venture a bit into freestyle skiing and learn how to ski switch, do spins and butters off side-hits. I dont think I will use it in the park at all (there is none at my resort) but it would be really more focused on looking for fun, creative lines all over the mountain.

I was considering the Atomic Bent Chetler 100, the Völkl Revolt 104, the K2 Reckoner 102, and potentially the upcoming Salomon QST 98 (although I couldnt find a lot of information on it yet)

For the Bent Chetler 100 I would consider mounting it +2 or +3 but it seems to be still a quite directional ski and I wonder if it would be playful enough.

The Revolt 104 is mounted quite far forward and there I am unsure if the ski has enough shovel for me.

And the K2 Reckoner seems very soft so I wonder how it handles (softer) groomers.

Also curious on length recommendations: in the trees I found the E104 in 191 sometimes a bit much but I wonder if, e.g. the BC 100 in 188 would feel the same or if it is significantly easier due to its lighter weight.

Sorry for the long post and very grateful for recommendations!
Mar 12 2021 6:24AM
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gilbertressel
Posts: 639 - Karma: 8,506
Bentchetler 100 is pretty playful, easy to pivot and spin around, but hard to butter at recommended mount. By the time it becomes butterable you're probably mounted +5 from rec and its all mountain performance suffers. Really fun to slash and slarve, ok performance in knee deep snow but maybe not as playful as you are looking for

**This post was edited on Mar 12th 2021 at 6:32:38am
Mar 12 2021 6:30AM
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anders_a
Posts: 1680 - Karma: 5,602
BC 100 has weak shovels and STIFF tail, its a very wtf combo. this is especially bad in the 188cm version

revolt 104 188 should do you well for tight stuff, but remember its not a super strong carver vs what your used to, but for the lightweight rockerd ski it is, it does carve well, the mount point on it kinda works very well though, since camber, radius and all that stuff is made for it. this ski is very good for everything but straight ice or extremly hard snow, also speed limit is maybe 60-70kmh with it still feeeling good

for pivoting around having fun, revolt 104 is darn fun, will also handle pow and tight woods surpringly well!

your also light enough to ski the reckoner 102, but you will have even less ski when mounted -2

you have to have the freeride noodle mindset for both of them though, both will treat you well.

I would also change out that E104 for a 102 Fr.... or CT 3.0 og CT 2.0 sport bittle just put them on stupid good sale with another 50 euro off on allready lowerd prices... I payed way more for mine :o all theese skis can handle 90-100, maybe even 110km quite easy. I'd ride all of them faster with more comfort than E104 191cm.


I find the longest length enforcers to be lacking, they seem to put all their effort on the shorter models Ie I'm 6'3 and the 110 and 93 and even 100 was better (stiffer) in shorter lengths (wtf nordica)

**This post was edited on Mar 12th 2021 at 7:29:07am
Mar 12 2021 7:26AM
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Greg_K
Posts: 947 - Karma: 2,718
With your weight, the 191cm Enforcer is a big ski for tight spots especially at the factory mount. The 186cm version with the mount moved up 2cm is very surfy and fun in tight spots and still great on piste. If you like the 191cm version, you’d love the 186cm with the mount up a bit. I’d want to be 200lbs plus on the 191cm version I think.

A 183cm Candide 2.0 with the mount moved back a bit or the 184cm Fisher 102 FR with the mount up a bit would be even stronger carving options that are still fun in the trees and more suitable lengths for you. Float isn’t as great on the narrower CT 2.0 but it rips everywhere. 184cm CT 3.0 shockingly good carver too on soft snow and more surfy than the 2.0. Dynastar MFree 108 also insanely surfy in trees and still pretty good on piste too but not as powerful as the others above(or the 192cm version).
Mar 12 2021 9:06AM
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FaunaSkis
Posts: 592 - Karma: 6,490
Would you be open to something more...core out of Europe, than an Atomic, a Salomon or a Volkl?

if so, I think what you describe what you want out of your skis is how our Pioneer is. I’d obviously recommend the 184. Have a look at Blister’s review and see if it might suit, and if you’re interested drop me a message.
Mar 12 2021 9:48AM
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powpatrol
Posts: 1637 - Karma: 10,725
Have a look at the black crows camox
Mar 12 2021 11:18AM
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lumi3456
Posts: 6 - Karma: 13
gilbertresselBentchetler 100 is pretty playful, easy to pivot and spin around, but hard to butter at recommended mount. By the time it becomes butterable you're probably mounted +5 from rec and its all mountain performance suffers. Really fun to slash and slarve, ok performance in knee deep snow but maybe not as playful as you are looking for

**This post was edited on Mar 12th 2021 at 6:32:38am


That actually doesnt sound too bad - it does not need to be incredible at butters. If it feels playful while skiing (easy to release the tail and do sliding turns) and can handle spins that would be great.

I got a bit hesitant as in the review at Blister they said that there are a lot better options if one wants to primarily slide across the fall line...
Mar 12 2021 12:52PM
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lumi3456
Posts: 6 - Karma: 13
anders_aBC 100 has weak shovels and STIFF tail, its a very wtf combo. this is especially bad in the 188cm version

revolt 104 188 should do you well for tight stuff, but remember its not a super strong carver vs what your used to, but for the lightweight rockerd ski it is, it does carve well, the mount point on it kinda works very well though, since camber, radius and all that stuff is made for it. this ski is very good for everything but straight ice or extremly hard snow, also speed limit is maybe 60-70kmh with it still feeeling good

for pivoting around having fun, revolt 104 is darn fun, will also handle pow and tight woods surpringly well!

your also light enough to ski the reckoner 102, but you will have even less ski when mounted -2

you have to have the freeride noodle mindset for both of them though, both will treat you well.

I would also change out that E104 for a 102 Fr.... or CT 3.0 og CT 2.0 sport bittle just put them on stupid good sale with another 50 euro off on allready lowerd prices... I payed way more for mine :o all theese skis can handle 90-100, maybe even 110km quite easy. I'd ride all of them faster with more comfort than E104 191cm.


I find the longest length enforcers to be lacking, they seem to put all their effort on the shorter models Ie I'm 6'3 and the 110 and 93 and even 100 was better (stiffer) in shorter lengths (wtf nordica)

**This post was edited on Mar 12th 2021 at 7:29:07am

Thanks for the detailed info - i think i would lean more towards the revolt 104 vs the reckoner as the revolt 104 seems to be a bit more substantial when it comes to on-piste skiing.

Yeah i was deciding between the E104 and the Ranger 102 and ultimately decided for the enforcer as I wanted more stability in variable conditions but seems like one length shorter might have been the better choice.
Mar 12 2021 12:55PM
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lumi3456
Posts: 6 - Karma: 13
Greg_KWith your weight, the 191cm Enforcer is a big ski for tight spots especially at the factory mount. The 186cm version with the mount moved up 2cm is very surfy and fun in tight spots and still great on piste. If you like the 191cm version, you’d love the 186cm with the mount up a bit. I’d want to be 200lbs plus on the 191cm version I think.

A 183cm Candide 2.0 with the mount moved back a bit or the 184cm Fisher 102 FR with the mount up a bit would be even stronger carving options that are still fun in the trees and more suitable lengths for you. Float isn’t as great on the narrower CT 2.0 but it rips everywhere. 184cm CT 3.0 shockingly good carver too on soft snow and more surfy than the 2.0. Dynastar MFree 108 also insanely surfy in trees and still pretty good on piste too but not as powerful as the others above(or the 192cm version).

Damn, now I regret getting the longer length haha.

I chose it because I wanted a ski that would do well in mixed conditions and thought the longer length might add some more stability but i didnt think it would be such a big tradeoff with agility.

Thanks for the info!
Mar 12 2021 12:58PM
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Greg_K
Posts: 947 - Karma: 2,718
lumi3456Damn, now I regret getting the longer length haha.

I chose it because I wanted a ski that would do well in mixed conditions and thought the longer length might add some more stability but i didnt think it would be such a big tradeoff with agility.

Thanks for the info!


Honestly, if you don’t want to sell the 191cm, move up the mount 2cm which will make them easier to pivot and ski a bit shorter and then get a stone grind to make sure the bases are truly flat and get the edges reset. Many Enforcers/many skis from any company seem to come with edge high/railed bases and this makes them harder to pivot and turn which may be part of your issue.


I’d try moving the bindings forward and getting a grind/tune and retrying them as they might be transformed. The 104 has a pretty loose tail which should pivot easily.

**This post was edited on Mar 12th 2021 at 1:04:58pm
Mar 12 2021 1:04PM
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lumi3456
Posts: 6 - Karma: 13
FaunaSkisWould you be open to something more...core out of Europe, than an Atomic, a Salomon or a Volkl?

if so, I think what you describe what you want out of your skis is how our Pioneer is. I’d obviously recommend the 184. Have a look at Blister’s review and see if it might suit, and if you’re interested drop me a message.

Thanks for the suggestion - at the moment those are a bit outside my student budget but I will keep the brand in mind!
Mar 12 2021 1:05PM
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gilbertressel
Posts: 639 - Karma: 8,506
lumi3456That actually doesnt sound too bad - it does not need to be incredible at butters. If it feels playful while skiing (easy to release the tail and do sliding turns) and can handle spins that would be great.

I got a bit hesitant as in the review at Blister they said that there are a lot better options if one wants to primarily slide across the fall line...

It is certainly easy to release the tails but I would agree with Blister in that you have a lot better options for skis that will slide across the fall line. The bentchetler 100 is certainly capable but its way overhyped as a playful ski since its tails are so unreasonably stiff.
Mar 12 2021 1:13PM
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lumi3456
Posts: 6 - Karma: 13
gilbertresselIt is certainly easy to release the tails but I would agree with Blister in that you have a lot better options for skis that will slide across the fall line. The bentchetler 100 is certainly capable but its way overhyped as a playful ski since its tails are so unreasonably stiff.

Which other skis would you have in mind there?

And also do you have an opinion on the 180cm vs 188cm length?

Thanks again for the help!
Mar 13 2021 2:53AM
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lumi3456
Posts: 6 - Karma: 13
Greg_KHonestly, if you don’t want to sell the 191cm, move up the mount 2cm which will make them easier to pivot and ski a bit shorter and then get a stone grind to make sure the bases are truly flat and get the edges reset. Many Enforcers/many skis from any company seem to come with edge high/railed bases and this makes them harder to pivot and turn which may be part of your issue.


I’d try moving the bindings forward and getting a grind/tune and retrying them as they might be transformed. The 104 has a pretty loose tail which should pivot easily.

**This post was edited on Mar 12th 2021 at 1:04:58pm

Thanks a lot for the input - I will check if detuning the edges and having a look at the base changes anything and if not I will consider downsizing.
Mar 13 2021 2:56AM
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Jammu
Posts: 1796 - Karma: 328
Line sir francis bacons. I had the 2019 model, most fun and playful ski I have ever had. I mostly ski only park but this was the first ski that made me smile even just cruising some groomed slope, so agile, so much pop, so nice for carving and also best ski for carving in switch that I have ever had. Nice for butters and fooling around jibbing everything. The flex is symmetrical and good balance between supportive and playful. Had them center mounted and felt like home from the first slope. Also verry easy ski to ski.



From SFB I switched to reckoner 102, I thought they would be pretty much like the SFB, but nothing like it, almost opposite. Reckoner is pretty solid under foot, but the tips are loose for ”playfulness” but thats not the case, because the tips don’t have pop, like any. Boht are 184cm and center mounted, reckoner feels longer and less agile, maybe less rocker? At high speed cornering the tips of reckoner feel unstable when they are bouncing like crazy. Have two days on reckoner now, day one I was a bit shocked and dissapointed, after day two they feel better thought, some how I need more time to get use to these and I feel like I have to change my riding style and position. They are good for riding jumps/rails/pipe, but just skiing the slope they don’t make me smile like the SFB did. Maybe I shouldn’t have mounted them center, but it worked so good with the bacons so I went for it also with the reckoner.
Mar 13 2021 5:12PM
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dolanslebensraum
Posts: 5959 - Karma: -13,100
My brother has revolt 104s and he loves them and rides them exclusively in the park.

revolt 95 would be another good all around choice thats a little easier to throw around in the park.

revolt 87 if you want a park only ski.
Mar 13 2021 5:44PM
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