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After skiing today on a bespoke racing ski base with lo fluoro wax i can honestly say.... holy fucking shit
I tried my cheap lo fluoro all weather wax on 28-32 degree snow today i was gliding so fucking fast it was insane. Like even skiing on flat access traverses i was literally going faster and faster and faster to the point i was blowing by people going like 40 mph.
if you think fluoro wax is a meme, you would be really surprised if you slapped some of this shite on your skis.
If you are putting it on a true racing base like on the revolt 87 or head caddy/framewall its fucking crazy.
When i say you feel like a puck on an air hockey table im not exaggerating.
ski_salmon69Somebody needs to fund this mans research already
Haha thanks for the compliment man.
i posted a few months ago about trying to find a better edge system on skis so the edges were literally indestructible.
But its a tall order i think bcuz if you are a skier who weighs 150-180 pounds or more and you are busting onto rails the amount of pressure you are putting on your edges and bases is enormous.
i know i rag on armada bases for being slow but i think the reason they dont adopt ds 4000 is bcuz their s7 base material is rock hard and supports the edges really well and doesnt let them move around or loosen up when you smash your skis onto rails. So i guess its justified but it would be cool to have skis with race bases that had edges as durable as armadas.
i think there has to be a better way to secure the edges in skis to make them truly rail proof.
eheethbro now just wait till you try a HIGH fluoro wax
You jinxed me senpai!!
I just put this on my skis this afternoon. Excited to see how it performs tmrw.
I only bought one 40 gram package of it bc its really expensive, but i wanted to taste the deliciousness, even if only once or twice
its probably overkill tho bc the lo fluoro wax i had on them today was almost too fast. I skied slow down 3/4 of a groomed black today, then pointed it for the last 1/4 of the steep section, and in a few seconds i was going so fast i almost collapsed from the g force when the run went abruptly from steep to flat at the bottom.
i really hope china starts making lo fluoro waxes illegally in the future once swix and toko and holmenkol stop producing any fluoro shit, so that other ppl can experience what i experienced today.
BradFiAusNzCoCaSecond this. What do you mean by a “bespoke racing ski base”? Even bespoke manufacturers source their bases from the same 2 companies as other brands
I think he means "dedicated" race base, but even that just means "high-end sintered".
FWIW, Atomic uses the same base material from our commercial race skis (think Redster G9) on all of our adult skis, even the Punx 7. You'll see differences in tune & preparation among the skis, but same base material throughout.
You won't see "special" base materials until you start grabbing real FIS skis.
proper FIS race skis is the cool stuff, and the actual skis the top athletes get from mfg, not the commercial shit we get... but they also use them just for competitions runs, not to get edge base burns etc....
but yes, correct high fluor wax on a hot wet day, its insane how much better glide it is.
I’ve always used strictly hf waxes, they outperform everything else this is nothing new, but it is night and day difference between fluoro and non fluoro, just remember there are dangers from inhaling so wear a proper ventilator in a high airflow area if your applying it. Seems most of the medical issues arose for industry personnel applying often, but be cautious and preventative nonetheless.
onenerdykidFWIW, Atomic uses the same base material from our commercial race skis (think Redster G9)
i happened to see shiffrin at 2018 olympics on tv last night and i think her skis said Redster G9. i don't know much about the race world, do they just put a Redster G9 graphic/label on her (presumably custom, higher end than consumer product) gear?
This is actually piggybacking of something I think is as Dolan ask once - but do you have special compounds make specifically for your race ski bases? I imagine they are different depending on conditions, which would mean a different ski for conditions?
onenerdykidYou won't see "special" base materials until you start grabbing real FIS skis.
This reminds me of nascar lol but park skis do this too. Andreas Håtveit and the real Skifi guys are not riding Punx 5s.
SofaKingSicki happened to see shiffrin at 2018 olympics on tv last night and i think her skis said Redster G9. i don't know much about the race world, do they just put a Redster G9 graphic/label on her (presumably custom, higher end than consumer product) gear?
BradFiAusNzCoCaThis reminds me of nascar lol but park skis do this too. Andreas Håtveit and the real Skifi guys are not riding Punx 5s.
yeah it happens with park skis but not super often really. like i said, i don't know the race world too well so i just kind of assumed the top pros would use skis that didn't even pretend to be consumer models, idk
eheethbro now just wait till you try a HIGH fluoro wax
I skied on the hi fluoro wax today and it was fast as expected. Im not sure if it was faster or slower than the lo fluoro wax i used yesterday bc yesterday was 50 degreees and today was 30 degrees, andskis glide faster the warmer the snow is.
i reckon if i compared the low fluoro and high fluoro in the same weather and temperature the high fluoro would be significantly faster, but so far the price of the hi fluoro wax is not justified by the speed advantage i noticed.
it was still lightning fast, but for the price that i got 14.25 kg of lo fluoro wax the price justification is fucking huge.
as far as i can tell lo fluoro is all you need for a reasonable pimp hand
**This post was edited on Mar 9th 2021 at 6:52:25pm
onenerdykidI think he means "dedicated" race base, but even that just means "high-end sintered".
FWIW, Atomic uses the same base material from our commercial race skis (think Redster G9) on all of our adult skis, even the Punx 7. You'll see differences in tune & preparation among the skis, but same base material throughout.
You won't see "special" base materials until you start grabbing real FIS skis.
You can tell watching fabian boeschs slope runs at xg ss 2021 that his atomic punx are very fast. So what you say makes sense. I am pretty sure tho that volkl on the revolt 87 and head on the caddy and framewall use the top of the line racing base that they use on their 1200$ race skis that actually compete.
onenerdykidI think he means "dedicated" race base, but even that just means "high-end sintered".
FWIW, Atomic uses the same base material from our commercial race skis (think Redster G9) on all of our adult skis, even the Punx 7. You'll see differences in tune & preparation among the skis, but same base material throughout.
You won't see "special" base materials until you start grabbing real FIS skis.
Also i dont know how it would make sense to half ass the features delivered to the commercial skis unless the durability was pure dog shit or something of that nature.
BruceDogFartThis man will start the next on3p on this site
Haha i wish
SessionBig difference between waxing skis and building them.
True. But as far as there seems to be a market for homemade skis i could probably learn to make something halfway decent or maybe durable.
but to me the holy grail of ski design is building something that could win an fis gs or sg or dh comp. as far as that goes i might as well be a chimpanzee.
I think thats why you will never see a designer ski win a slopestyle event. I think Good park skis come from the same fundamentals as good racing skis.
Like if i cant rely on you to build me a competitive race ski then how can i rely on you to build me a competitive park ski?
DolansLebensraumYou can tell watching fabian boeschs slope runs at xg ss 2021 that his atomic punx are very fast. So what you say makes sense. I am pretty sure tho that volkl on the revolt 87 and head on the caddy and framewall use the top of the line racing base that they use on their 1200$ race skis that actually compete.
if the true comp bases on hirschers skis are within the same ballpark of durability as other bases i guarantee you they would use this comp base on top end commercial racing skis as well as comp park skis like the revolt 87 and the caddy/framewall.
DolansLebensraumI skied on the hi fluoro wax today and it was fast as expected. Im not sure if it was faster or slower than the lo fluoro wax i used yesterday bc yesterday was 50 degreees and today was 30 degrees, andskis glide faster the warmer the snow is.
i reckon if i compared the low fluoro and high fluoro in the same weather and temperature the high fluoro would be significantly faster, but so far the price of the hi fluoro wax is not justified by the speed advantage
**This post was edited on Mar 9th 2021 at 6:52:25pm
yeah to be honest I've spent a little bit of time around different waxes from my rAcInG dAyS, and although the price might make it seem like it, high flouro, or even flouro altogether, isn't always what's going to be fastest necessarily.
The flouro in the wax is hydrophobic, which is why in wet snow or high humidity they will feel muuuch faster than a low or non flouro wax. In a low humidity or snow that isn't quite as wet, sometimes a low flouro will be a better suit as there won't be as much friction with the base, and in proper proper dry snow (think snow that you can't make resemble a snowball) sometimes skipping flouro altogether and just sticking with a hydro can be your best bet.
This isn't a hard and fast rule though, and once you get into layering waxes, and powder and spray top layers like Cera, you start to see why some teams pay pretty good money to someone purely to analyse race courses, the weather, and snow and know the best wax setup each day.
DolansLebensraumI think thats why you will never see a designer ski win a slopestyle event. I think Good park skis come from the same fundamentals as good racing skis.
Like if i cant rely on you to build me a competitive race ski then how can i rely on you to build me a competitive park ski?
Multiple Olympic medals have been won on Moments in events where the ski matter more than slopestyle.
SofaKingSicki happened to see shiffrin at 2018 olympics on tv last night and i think her skis said Redster G9. i don't know much about the race world, do they just put a Redster G9 graphic/label on her (presumably custom, higher end than consumer product) gear?
The top end of our race range is labeled with a "9", even the FIS-level SL & GS skis. Commercial skis are called G9, World Cup skis are called G9 FIS.
BradFiAusNzCoCaThis is actually piggybacking of something I think is as Dolan ask once - but do you have special compounds make specifically for your race ski bases? I imagine they are different depending on conditions, which would mean a different ski for conditions?
World Cup skis use special base materials. I could tell you about it, but I'd have to kill you.
We also get special waxes from Swix, which are absolutely insane.
DolansLebensraumYou can tell watching fabian boeschs slope runs at xg ss 2021 that his atomic punx are very fast. So what you say makes sense. I am pretty sure tho that volkl on the revolt 87 and head on the caddy and framewall use the top of the line racing base that they use on their 1200$ race skis that actually compete.
To be honest, commercial race bases are more than sufficient for going fast enough to scare any freeskier. And no park skier goes fast enough in a competition to warrant a base from a Super-G ski. It would be similar to giving you a car with a 1000 hp engine for the sole purpose of being able to reach 60 mph (ignoring acceleration time, just focusing on top speed).
If you take your store-bought, high-end sintered base park/all-mountain/freeride skis into a shop that has the machines & ability to tune race skis, get a world-cup base preparation for the current conditions you are skiing, and wax these skis as much as (or more than) you ski them, you will be 100% blown away by the glide quality of your skis. At that point, your skis will absolutely not be the limiting factor in your skiing.
**This post was edited on Mar 10th 2021 at 2:29:09am
eheethyeah to be honest I've spent a little bit of time around different waxes from my rAcInG dAyS, and although the price might make it seem like it, high flouro, or even flouro altogether, isn't always what's going to be fastest necessarily.
The flouro in the wax is hydrophobic, which is why in wet snow or high humidity they will feel muuuch faster than a low or non flouro wax. In a low humidity or snow that isn't quite as wet, sometimes a low flouro will be a better suit as there won't be as much friction with the base, and in proper proper dry snow (think snow that you can't make resemble a snowball) sometimes skipping flouro altogether and just sticking with a hydro can be your best bet.
This isn't a hard and fast rule though, and once you get into layering waxes, and powder and spray top layers like Cera, you start to see why some teams pay pretty good money to someone purely to analyse race courses, the weather, and snow and know the best wax setup each day.
Yes im aware that the fluoro is much more effective in warm wet snow bc ghe hydrophobic fluorocarbons prevent suction, but i have read multiple places that the fluoros are naturally slippery and it is more than just suction elimination. Otherwise in a cold fis or xc race they wouldnt use cold weather fluoros. But they do bc fluorocarbons are basically the pimp hand.
onenerdykidThe top end of our race range is labeled with a "9", even the FIS-level SL & GS skis. Commercial skis are called G9, World Cup skis are called G9 FIS.
World Cup skis use special base materials. I could tell you about it, but I'd have to kill you.
We also get special waxes from Swix, which are absolutely insane.
why wouldnt race ski companies pass these bonus features on to their commercial race skis? Do these “special” bases have longevity/durability issues? Bc if i buy 1200$ skis from a company its a pretty dick move for the company to not throw in every pimp hand available.
as far as wax, im pretty sure the best wax treatments (fluoro moly base prep, lo fluoro, hi fluoro, cera x fluoro powder/dibloc toko jetstream etc) are well known to ppl such as cross country ski teams around the world. Thats not a secret you could keep bottled up if there were 5000 people in the world who knew the ultimate wax overlay treatment secrets. If you really know about some secret shit then give us at least a hint. You might kill us after you tell us, but if you dont tell us dolan is gonna kill you first
onenerdykidTo be honest, commercial race bases are more than sufficient for going fast enough to scare any freeskier. And no park skier goes fast enough in a competition to warrant a base from a Super-G ski. It would be similar to giving you a car with a 1000 hp engine for the sole purpose of being able to reach 60 mph (ignoring acceleration time, just focusing on top speed).
If you take your store-bought, high-end sintered base park/all-mountain/freeride skis into a shop that has the machines & ability to tune race skis, get a world-cup base preparation for the current conditions you are skiing, and wax these skis as much as (or more than) you ski them, you will be 100% blown away by the glide quality of your skis. At that point, your skis will absolutely not be the limiting factor in your skiing.
**This post was edited on Mar 10th 2021 at 2:29:09am
Of course if you have a racing ski base like on 1200$ head dh skis you are going to fly with the right wax.
i just dont understand why ski companies would hold back the goods on ski base tech.
it wouldnt be fair for one thing; if 2 high school ski racers compete against eachother, and one racer buys the old comp skis from an fis pro racer, and the other skier has to settle on the top commercial model the company sells to the public, then the former racer has an unfair advantage.
to be fair any skier should be able to buy or have access to the best a ski company has to offer, assuming these special features dont fuck with the reliability of the ski.
DolansLebensraumi just dont understand why ski companies would hold back the goods on ski base tech.
Because no one who actually has to buy their skis is good enough to feel the difference between a commercial race base and one that makes you go 0.05 seconds faster. It's complete overkill that goes unnoticed and unappreciated.
A properly maintained commercial race base from Atomic is already beyond most pro skiers' level of perception anyway.
All of us would literally be unaware of the difference.
It reminds me of f1. Most of us would not be able to drive those cars to even get the brakes or tires up to temperature or feel the 1/2 second braking response increase (or be able to even utilize it).
onenerdykidBecause no one who actually has to buy their skis is good enough to feel the difference between a commercial race base and one that makes you go 0.05 seconds faster. It's complete overkill that goes unnoticed and unappreciated.
A properly maintained commercial race base from Atomic is already beyond most pro skiers' level of perception anyway.
All of us would literally be unaware of the difference.
DolansLebensraumit wouldnt be fair for one thing; if 2 high school ski racers compete against eachother, and one racer buys the old comp skis from an fis pro racer, and the other skier has to settle on the top commercial model the company sells to the public, then the former racer has an unfair advantage.
First, that wouldn't happen- there are rules for which skis you are allowed to use in high school racing. Second, even at the World Cup level there are differences in skis within a brand and racers work hard with their service techs to select the fastest skis that other racers can't use. Ultimately, every brand is trying to have something unique and different from the other brand anyway, so there are tons of different materials being used at any given moment. It's all about having a different and better ski than your competitor.
BradFiAusNzCoCaIt reminds me of f1. Most of us would not be able to drive those cars to even get the brakes or tires up to temperature or feel the 1/2 second braking response increase (or be able to even utilize it).
Exactly, but that's probably where the F1 analogy ends given what I said above.
Can i get some of that swix? My hair spontaneously ignites sometimes so I need to go really fast
onenerdykidThe top end of our race range is labeled with a "9", even the FIS-level SL & GS skis. Commercial skis are called G9, World Cup skis are called G9 FIS.
World Cup skis use special base materials. I could tell you about it, but I'd have to kill you.
We also get special waxes from Swix, which are absolutely insane.
onenerdykidBecause no one who actually has to buy their skis is good enough to feel the difference between a commercial race base and one that makes you go 0.05 seconds faster. It's complete overkill that goes unnoticed and unappreciated.
A properly maintained commercial race base from Atomic is already beyond most pro skiers' level of perception anyway.
All of us would literally be unaware of the difference.
For a business model built on selling to the wealthy, I am very surprised to hear that they aren't selling this stuff with a 200 dollar upcharge or something. I'm sure so many people would be paying tons of money to ski on the 'stuff the pros use'
BigPurpleSkiSuitFor a business model built on selling to the wealthy, I am very surprised to hear that they aren't selling this stuff with a 200 dollar upcharge or something. I'm sure so many people would be paying tons of money to ski on the 'stuff the pros use'
Haha I thought you were fuckin around but then I looked on the Volant website and saw Atomic at the bottom of the page. When I was a kid we would go skiing with my dad's friend and he had like 4 pairs of old Volants in the garage but he always skied these beat to fuck Salomons that were probably just as old. I've seen some Volants at goodwill a few times here and have kinda wanted to buy em just for shits and giggles.
BigPurpleSkiSuitFor a business model built on selling to the wealthy, I am very surprised to hear that they aren't selling this stuff with a 200 dollar upcharge or something. I'm sure so many people would be paying tons of money to ski on the 'stuff the pros use'
This is kind of my thinking as well. Like who cares if the rich guy couldnt tell the difference. Im surprised ski companies wouldnt be more competitive when it comes to 1200-2000$ skis.
the question isnt, (why bother?). Its (why not bother?).
Hirscher and that whore michaela both ride atomic redsters so they are obv great sticks but head seems to rack up alot more points total with the finish results of gs and sg and dh races. Maybe this is just bc head sponsors more fis skiers but i have a suspicion that head skis may be superior. But who cares they are probably both insane skis
OhJay
Dolan, your next mission, should you choose to accept...
For the amount of times i plan on posting about how it is very likely that no future “non fluoro” ski wax will ever match the glide performance of any old fluoro wax, it would probably be in the best interest of swix and toko and purl and holmenkol to fucking murder my ass to avoid billions of dollars in sales losses as the entire world is dolan-informed that the fluoro wax ppl buy from underground plants in china is better plus it will piss of the environment-nazis.
fluorine is in fucking toothpaste. You environmentals should keep up you authoritarian degeneracy and get toothpaste banned as well.
the environmentalists who underestimate the resiliency of ecosystems tend to massively overestimate their own intelligence.
DolansLebensraumHirscher and that whore michaela both ride atomic redsters so they are obv great sticks but head seems to rack up alot more points total with the finish results of gs and sg and dh races. Maybe this is just bc head sponsors more fis skiers but i have a suspicion that head skis may be superior. But who cares they are probably both insane skis
For the amount of times i plan on posting about how it is very likely that no future “non fluoro” ski wax will ever match the glide performance of any old fluoro wax, it would probably be in the best interest of swix and toko and purl and holmenkol to fucking murder my ass to avoid billions of dollars in sales losses as the entire world is dolan-informed that the fluoro wax ppl buy from underground plants in china is better plus it will piss of the environment-nazis.
fluorine is in fucking toothpaste. You environmentals should keep up you authoritarian degeneracy and get toothpaste banned as well.
the environmentalists who underestimate the resiliency of ecosystems tend to massively overestimate their own intelligence.
source? I majored in bio at princeton
In other words, fluorocarbon waxes are not poison. They dont kill bunny rabbits and groundhogs.
The whole anti fluoro movement is pushed by hippies who think anything humans produce is some sort of earth raping toxin.
my pet bunny pictured below has one thing to say to you tree hugging whores;
I really want to cop and see what I've been missing out on.
doit! I've spent way to much time on racing skis lately as a friend I've been teaching has been wanting to learn more, my switch slalom carves are improving :D . if you have never skied proper race skis your in for a treat. Remember to give them quite a few heat cycles & layers of wax before initial skiiing.
I really want to cop and see what I've been missing out on.
Holy shit. Why would a brand new pair of 193 race skis be this cheap? Is there a defect? Do FIS skis like fall apart after a few runs or something? Like wtf? Im literally gonna buy these if you dont.
anders_adoit! I've spent way to much time on racing skis lately as a friend I've been teaching has been wanting to learn more, my switch slalom carves are improving :D . if you have never skied proper race skis your in for a treat. Remember to give them quite a few heat cycles & layers of wax before initial skiiing.
Jesus fuck are you telling me these skis are going to force me to wax them?
this is like sado masochistic shit man. I want these skis to punish me.
I was wondering that too. Im not buying them, even though they're perfect for me
DolansLebensraum
Holy shit. Why would a brand new pair of 193 race skis be this cheap? Is there a defect? Do FIS skis like fall apart after a few runs or something? Like wtf? Im literally gonna buy these if you dont.
Jesus fuck are you telling me these skis are going to force me to wax them?
this is like sado masochistic shit man. I want these skis to punish me.
BigPurpleSkiSuitIve never raced but id love to train downhill just to see what it's like sometime.
Nice. Yrs ago i had some 188 cm volkl sg race skis with xX//SINTERED FUCKING BASES\\Xx and i used to just point them and they would be rock solid stable at 70 mph. Still debating buying these skis.... i wish onenerdykid was more clear about what differences there are between the fis race skis and the ones they sell to the public...
Do you need to know that to buy yourself a ski tho? Maybe pull the trigger don’t miss out, race skis are a blast.
is it just me but do the top sheets look seriously scuffed up on those?
DolansLebensraumNice. Yrs ago i had some 188 cm volkl sg race skis with xX//SINTERED FUCKING BASES\\Xx and i used to just point them and they would be rock solid stable at 70 mph. Still debating buying these skis.... i wish onenerdykid was more clear about what differences there are between the fis race skis and the ones they sell to the public...
What u need new rock skis or you gonna use dem on rails? J/k but aside from jokes idk 🤷
seriously meow, has durability ever been a “thing” for race and other piste skis? I always thought the only skis where durability got questioned where park skis cause of rails, soft skis cause of butters and skis that people really are wanging on in the bc ..
BigPurpleSkiSuitI was kind of wondering about durability.
