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cultraraActually, this is exactly the type of thing I'd write on a ski in english. Many of the Line & FT products I've designed have sarcastic or non sequitur text on them. My favorite examples of this are on Tom's pro models. One of his boots says "Keep upright on landing ↑" and his 2022 ski has labeled sections that say "Place sponsor sticker here".
When the designer who worked on this graphic told me what the Japanese text said, I thought it fit Line's brand humor perfectly.
However, I do think there should be a discussion around how the Japanese characters themselves are used in this design. It's definitely hacky to simply slap Japanese on a graphic and call it a day. Often times Japanese culture is fetishized in American streetwear and that is something I try to avoid. Was it done 100% successfully in this case? Probably not. The designer crushed it on this graphic though and I still think the characters work in context.
Abstract typography is one of my favorite devices to use in design. The issue with using Japanese characters is that they are already "abstract" to a westerner — this sets the trap for putting less thought into the design because one thinks the work has already been done for them. I don't think this was the case on the Chronic but ultimately that's not for me to say.
If there are any Japanese NS'rs, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.
I'm not Japanese but I can speak the language and have spent a lot of time there. I agree that text on a graphic can be cool but in my opinion the Japanese here is, kind of like you said, used in a similar way to how bad streetwear companies just slap Japanese on things. I think makes the skis look cheap and kind of silly. Japanese writing is only abstract to people that can't read it, in the end it's just a mundane communication tool like our alphabet. Some people will probably like these just because of the Japanese though.
I could be wrong about all of this, but the skis say 坂 which is a literal translation of "hill" and isn't usually used to refer to ski hills, which are either called mountains or スキー場 (which means something like ski place). Also the verb is in plain form here, which is present or future tense, not really used to tell someone what to do. It would sound cooler as a command. As a result the Japanese sounds kind of awkward to people that can speak Japanese.
Japanese companies also do the reverse and put random English on things. It looks kind of dumb to us, and this probably looks dumb to Japanese people too.
^^^ Is why I love NS. Really cool to see both sides of that.
I'd agree with both of you that abstract typography is awesome, but can feel pretty cheap and lazy when the only abstraction is that it's a different language than the majority of your market speaks. Japanese characters, and runic lettering seem to be the two prime examples. It's so tempting to just phone it in with something "cool" looking.
This particular graphic doesn't float my boat, but I'm stoked to hear some of the backstory and see your side of the discussion.
Why the Japanese influences on a park ski though? I feel like historically this is a common trope on pow skis, that folks might buy for that dream trip to Japan, but it's interesting to see it on a park ski.
I feel like 2022 is going to be a great year for ski graphics with ON3P and K2 putting out some sick graphics this year. Hopefully they give some inspiration for other brands.
cultraraIt's an interesting relationship. There are tons of thrift stores & boutiques in Tokyo that focus on Americana. I was surprised by all the shops playing dad rock and selling LL Bean or Kiss tour shirts.
There are lots of Japanese people that are huge fans of anything American. The Americana clothing trend is real, at vintage shops in Tokyo I saw Wu-Tang shirts selling for hundreds of dollars.
This a tangent but once bar hopping in Kobe I found a cowboy themed bar called Honky Tonk. The interior was completely covered with 1950s American stuff and there was a band of people in their 50s or 60s covering retro country tracks in English with Japanese accents, all dressed in western shirts and jeans. I was the youngest person in there by about 40 years. The bartender got so excited when I said I was from Alberta and asked if I lived in the country. Not my pic but found one of the decorations.
SlowbroThere are lots of Japanese people that are huge fans of anything American. The Americana clothing trend is real, at vintage shops in Tokyo I saw Wu-Tang shirts selling for hundreds of dollars.
This a tangent but once bar hopping in Kobe I found a cowboy themed bar called Honky Tonk. The interior was completely covered with 1950s American stuff and there was a band of people in their 50s or 60s covering retro country tracks in English with Japanese accents, all dressed in western shirts and jeans. I was the youngest person in there by about 40 years. The bartender got so excited when I said I was from Alberta and asked if I lived in the country. Not my pic but found one of the decorations.
Apparently King of the Hill is big in Japan. People debate whether it should be watched in subs or dubs.
SkiHillShiterNext years bdogs I’m pretty sure. Really digging the simple graphic
I really hope they change the sizing up for next year. I heard that the 180 actually measures out to a 178. If they make a 184-186 I will be all over it.
GeorgiaJibberI really hope they change the sizing up for next year. I heard that the 180 actually measures out to a 178. If they make a 184-186 I will be all over it.
No idea the ski but there was a new colorway matching the new blue tyrolia attack’s on Emil Granbom’s story and tyrolia’s. Pretty sure Emil normally rides the caddy.
**This post was edited on Jan 21st 2021 at 5:56:12am
BradFiAusNzCoCaNo idea the ski but there was a new colorway matching the new blue tyrolia attack’s on Emil Granbom’s story and tyrolia’s. Pretty sure Emil normally rides the caddy.
**This post was edited on Jan 21st 2021 at 5:56:12am
check emils personal instagram story, called the oblivion 94
Looks like they are just replacing The Show with the Oblivion 79, The Caddy with the Oblivion 84 and adding this Oblivion 94 as a new “all mountain freestyle” ski. Construction of the 79 and 84 look the same as the previous models with thicker bases and edges finally added. The Oblivion 94 seems like a wider Caddy in construction with again thick bases and edges.
Skitalk.com had a Facebook live stream at one of the only on-hill ski demos this year and was showing the new Dynastar MFree 99/Menace 98 replacement. Like a narrower version of the MFree 108 so it should easily fly over soft crud with that low rise rocker. Hoping for mid 180s sizing options too. 🤞
Greg_KSkitalk.com had a Facebook live stream at one of the only on-hill ski demos this year and was showing the new Dynastar MFree 99/Menace 98 replacement. Like a narrower version of the MFree 108 so it should easily fly over soft crud with that low rise rocker. Hoping for mid 180s sizing options too. 🤞
189 is mid 180s sizing, will accept 190 192 as well :p
anders_a189 is mid 180s sizing, will accept 190 192 as well :p
Only thing stopping me from getting a pair of the 108's (well that, and we're not a dynastar dealer), 182/192 sizing is wack, and I'm more speaking of how that relates to sales. Skis with sizing in the mid 180's always do much better.
double trouble is also that some skis are 2-3cm shorter than advertised, not takeing in the rocker....
ohh and I got the 192cm m-free 108, ohh yes! just need to mount some bindings... and get a working knee.
pics suggested they carry the 2021 over to 2022 for dynastar? :(
.nastyOnly thing stopping me from getting a pair of the 108's (well that, and we're not a dynastar dealer), 182/192 sizing is wack, and I'm more speaking of how that relates to sales. Skis with sizing in the mid 180's always do much better.
.nastyOnly thing stopping me from getting a pair of the 108's (well that, and we're not a dynastar dealer), 182/192 sizing is wack, and I'm more speaking of how that relates to sales. Skis with sizing in the mid 180's always do much better.
Agreed!! Would have a pair of MFree 108 if they made a mid 180cm version. Mid 180s sizes are always the ones that sell out the quickest it seems.
Doubting they make a 192cm MFree 99 and more likely top out closer the current 187cm Menace 98 or 186cm of their MPro lineup below 100mm. I’m sure we’ll find out sizing and specs soon.
And graphics carry over for the MFree and MPro line it looks like.
**This post was edited on Jan 21st 2021 at 10:01:11am
Greg_KAgreed!! Would have a pair of MFree 108 if they made a mid 180cm version. Mid 180s sizes are always the ones that sell out the quickest it seems.
Doubting they make a 192cm MFree 99 and more likely top out closer the current 187cm Menace 98 or 186cm of their MPro lineup below 100mm. I’m sure we’ll find out sizing and specs soon.
And graphics carry over for the MFree and MPro line it looks like.
**This post was edited on Jan 21st 2021 at 10:01:11am
I think volkl and black crows nailed it, offeringing "low" 19x like 191, 188 for revolt etc. and black crows with all their 189 skis, for a lot of people a 189 probably sounds less intimidating than a 192, but... yeah.
anders_aI think volkl and black crows nailed it, offeringing "low" 19x like 191, 188 for revolt etc. and black crows with all their 189 skis, for a lot of people a 189 probably sounds less intimidating than a 192, but... yeah.
Aren't you like 185-186cm greg?
About 184cm/almost 6’2” at 175lbs. Have 190cm powder skis and have had lots of 191cm skis but love skiing bumps so tight moguls sometimes a pain with 190cm plus skis.
Think Dynastar just needs one more size option on the MFree 108 so the length gaps aren’t so big. Most skis are 5-8cm between length options not 10cm jumps. Add a 187cm MFree 108 and I bet it would be the biggest seller.
anders_aI think volkl and black crows nailed it, offeringing "low" 19x like 191, 188 for revolt etc. and black crows with all their 189 skis, for a lot of people a 189 probably sounds less intimidating than a 192, but... yeah.
Aren't you like 185-186cm greg?
Black crows is so funny with their sizing. They get all exact labeling "189.7" or whatever and they never actually measure to that. Not even the top or base running length vs tip/tail length.
Nothing that NS cares about really changes as far as I can tell. I wish they'd give the Maestrale RS a top strap/buckle like the F1 has. I swapped one on to mine and it made transitions way faster, made them walk better, and ski just as well as stock.
I really want to try a true skimo race boot with my blades. I feel like there's a 60% chance I could get away with that new Alien 4.0. Too bad it will probably cost like $3K.
Greg_KSkitalk.com had a Facebook live stream at one of the only on-hill ski demos this year and was showing the new Dynastar MFree 99/Menace 98 replacement. Like a narrower version of the MFree 108 so it should easily fly over soft crud with that low rise rocker. Hoping for mid 180s sizing options too. 🤞
This is from Waterville, I skied it today. M-Free 99, skis a lot like the 108 just quicker edge to edge/lighter/etc. Fun ski, I skied a 182
Greg_KYou see the dimensions and turning radius at all and what length did you try?
Wasn’t paying attention to the numbers too much, sorry about that. 99 waist, radius felt pretty similar to the 108 maybe 2-3 meters tighter. I skied the 182!
