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First-Ever Criminal Charges After An Avalanche Caused By Skier

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Vitiligo
Posts: 535 - Karma: 1,126
what do you guys think about this? IMO it’s a prosecutor trying to abuse his power, and is a slippery slope to having less backcountry riders report avys they trigger or witness others trigger

fuck 12


[URL]https://coloradosun.com/2020/10/18/criminal-charges-avalanche-colorado[/URL]/
Oct 19 2020 7:14PM
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Young_patty
Posts: 3238 - Karma: 36,713
That attorney is a retard, those dudes reported their mistake and went about it very professionally so to turn around and try to hit them with $168,000 charge is ridiculous.


honestly it just makes me think that in the future there will be a lot fewer avalanches reported since no one will want the fines, which I imagine will be a huge pain in the ass for Colorado.

**This post was edited on Oct 20th 2020 at 2:24:50am
Oct 19 2020 7:27PM
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SofaKingSick
Posts: 8906 - Karma: 57,369
Super interested to see how this plays out.

I'd need to read more and watch the whole video to have an official position, of course, but at first glance that seems like a really bad move to prosecute like this
Oct 19 2020 7:56PM
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jsweeze
Posts: 59 - Karma: 89
A couple quick thoughts:
(I live in SW Montana where we don't have the easy access provided by mountain passes you enjoy in Colorado. As far as I know there are not any popular ski routes that have the potential to risk road and highway infrastructure. I have skied both Teton pass and across from Alta/Snowbird where that risk exists)

1. Personally when assessing a slope for stability I would never consider any avalanche mitigation performed by a DOT to limit the risk for a recreational skier. The DOT blasting procedure are very different than what is employed at a ski area. The purpose of the avy mitigation is not to make the slope safe for skiers but rather to limit the size of natural avalanches.

2. Skiers and Riders need to take more personal responsibility on how their actions can affect other users. We recreate for fun our actions should not take priority over critical infrastructure, or endanger other users/rescuers. If your campfire escaped and caused a wildfire you would be held liable regardless of the fire danger.

3. The ski community needs to start self regulating backcountry activity at popular passes. Last time I was in Jackson the pass closed due to an avalanche over the road, I can't remember if it was human caused or not. Eventually someone is going to cause a fatality on a public road and we will lose access to all of this amazing backcountry skiing.
Oct 19 2020 9:32PM
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Granby_killdozer
Posts: 2298 - Karma: -11,017
Those 2 guys are idiots that deserve what they're getting. If you trigger an avalanche directly over i70 you should absolutely be charged with a crime. I love backcountry skiing and have never once thought to myself "Man skiing around all this pristine wilderness sucks. I'd rather go ski next to the interstate". They're just 2 dumbass summit county bros who thought it would be "sick" to put innocent people at risk for the gram. They honestly deserve to be charged with a felony for reckless endangerment but a $168,000 fine works too I guess. I'm not worried at all about the precedent this will set because I'm not a dumb fuck that skis avalanche terrain directly above roads. If you try to ski Mt Bethel, Mt Sniktau, the west side of the tunnel or 10 mile canyon on the sides facing i70 before May then you deserve whatever happens to you. With all the newbies heading into the backcountry this season, the consequences for dumbfuckery need to be crystal clear.

**This post was edited on Oct 19th 2020 at 10:22:46pm
Oct 19 2020 10:01PM
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hi_vis360
Posts: 4616 - Karma: 45,401
Yeah, on one hand I hate the sue-happy culture in America, but on the other I think these guys probably should've just gone riding somewhere else on that day. I also agree that going into this season we need to be extra vigilant with calling out bad backcountry behavior.
Oct 19 2020 10:44PM
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a_pla5tic_bag
Posts: 9210 - Karma: 5,357
Shouldn't they just not allow backcountry skiing at that location? There's probably more places to ski that aren't above I70.
Oct 19 2020 10:51PM
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MilkPlanet
Posts: 74 - Karma: 353
Well those guys aren't very smart, but they did the right thing, ultimately I don't think this lawsuit is appropriate. Criminalizing every person who makes stupid decisions but with full good intentions? I think there needs to be more education about this. Expect everyone to be stupid, and don't punish them until they act against their education.
Oct 20 2020 3:50AM
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LukeTheWaffle
Posts: 1842 - Karma: 8,829
hmm yes this is a potential slide zone above a highway pogchamp lets ski it
Oct 20 2020 5:44AM
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Granby_killdozer
Posts: 2298 - Karma: -11,017
MilkPlanetWell those guys aren't very smart, but they did the right thing, ultimately I don't think this lawsuit is appropriate. Criminalizing every person who makes stupid decisions but with full good intentions? I think there needs to be more education about this. Expect everyone to be stupid, and don't punish them until they act against their education.


Ignorance of the crime you are committing doesn't absolve you from committing it. They understood that the face had the potential to slide due to the moderate rating that day from the CAIC. They knew a consequence of such a slide would be the death of innocent people and luckily for all of us that didn't happen. But they were still willing to put other people's lives at risk for the sake of their own thrill-seeking. fuck them
Oct 20 2020 10:07AM
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Dilldoes
Posts: 761 - Karma: 5,853
Craw_DaddyIgnorance of the crime you are committing doesn't absolve you from committing it. They understood that the face had the potential to slide due to the moderate rating that day from the CAIC. They knew a consequence of such a slide would be the death of innocent people and luckily for all of us that didn't happen. But they were still willing to put other people's lives at risk for the sake of their own thrill-seeking. fuck them


I really really don't want to agree as this could open chest that cannot be shut buuuuuuttttt fuck em. Colorado has 14 billion places to ski that don't endanger the rest of us.
Oct 20 2020 10:48AM
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cohen.skier
Posts: 54 - Karma: 201
shits fucked up. attorneys a fukin moron.
Oct 20 2020 11:16AM
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firecrotch
Posts: 1470 - Karma: 5,504
Too bad they made such a dumb decision, they seem like real nice dudes in the video
Oct 20 2020 12:41PM
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Childstar.
Posts: 1947 - Karma: 2,212
Lol are they dumb? Part of assessing avalanche risk is making sure that if you do trigger something, that it doesn't endanger bystanders.

Charges here are 100% justified.

Imagine killing someone, then calling the police to report it then bitching about being charged with murder. Just because you're being honest doesn't mean you shouldn't be held accountable.
Oct 20 2020 12:44PM
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freestyler540
Posts: 13045 - Karma: 18,291
The area the riders where at should have been a permantly closed area in the first place. If there are cannons for controlled avalanche, skier and riders should not be there at all. It wasnt a good idea to be there in the first place, but a criminal lawsuit is overkill and a half. By making the risk known, its up to authorities to prevent a similar incident by reevaluating avalache terrain near roads and highways.

I remember there was a lawsuit in Canada about responsibilities when riding with a partner. While 2 guys here in the back country near Vancouver an avalache was triggered killing one of the 2 riders. The wife of the deceased suied the survivor for million in reckless endangerment case. The main arguement was that the surviver had a duty to protect the victim and hence liable for his death. I dont know if there was a transaction beforehand, but the surviver was not a certified guide, just someone who knew the area.
Finally, the judge decided that in the backcountry, you should be responsible for your safety, regardless of experience and the surviver won the case.
Im glad the judge made the right decision because it set a precedance. Unless your paying for a professional guide (who’s business is insured) a partner cannot be liable for accidents in the backcountry.
Oct 20 2020 12:44PM
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SteezeJibberton
Posts: 155 - Karma: 285
a_pla5tic_bagShouldn't they just not allow backcountry skiing at that location? There's probably more places to ski that aren't above I70.

This was kind of where my mind went while reading this. I thought about the system at Rogers Pass, where certain areas above the Trans-Canada highway are completely off limits to skiers. Why not have a similar set up near the tunnel or other high-risk areas along I70?
Oct 20 2020 1:09PM
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CowboySkibop
Posts: 3502 - Karma: 27,969
Idk how I feel about this. part of me is like "fuck that thats unfair" but the other half of me wonders why tf you'd go riding in close proximity to the interstate while you were "worried about a slide".. shit is just stupid, theres so much other backcountry out there
Oct 20 2020 1:36PM
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CatBoy
Posts: 234 - Karma: 990
Just to make it interesting, let’s say they did kill someone. Does that change anyone’s thoughts on the matter?
Oct 20 2020 3:04PM
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yessirskiii_
Posts: 240 - Karma: 1,659
Here’s my opinion.
1. They fucked up, but handled it professionally. Sometimes you still get bit in the ass when trying to the right thing.
2. There’s plenty of other spots to ride. Above a major interstate is not an ideal place to hike and ski.

3. I bet their dads handle it for them
Oct 20 2020 3:48PM
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Yung_Gnarley
Posts: 9091 - Karma: 3,016
avalanches are a big problem near Eisenhower. If these guys triggered a slide that bad, CDOT failed to blast correctly and the face was already loaded. Obviously they didn't help by being up there, but it's a prevention problem imo
Oct 20 2020 5:19PM
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MilkPlanet
Posts: 74 - Karma: 353
Craw_DaddyIgnorance of the crime you are committing doesn't absolve you from committing it. They understood that the face had the potential to slide due to the moderate rating that day from the CAIC. They knew a consequence of such a slide would be the death of innocent people and luckily for all of us that didn't happen. But they were still willing to put other people's lives at risk for the sake of their own thrill-seeking. fuck them

Yes, so educate people to do better. You're smart enough not to do that, you understand how bad of an idea it was, but they obviously didn't have that same judgement. Punishing these guys won't stop other people from making the same mistake.
Oct 20 2020 5:20PM
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a_pla5tic_bag
Posts: 9210 - Karma: 5,357
CatBoyJust to make it interesting, let’s say they did kill someone. Does that change anyone’s thoughts on the matter?


Yung_Gnarleyavalanches are a big problem near Eisenhower. If these guys triggered a slide that bad, CDOT failed to blast correctly and the face was already loaded. Obviously they didn't help by being up there, but it's a prevention problem imo

This being the case means it'd be a very long legal battle to determine who was at 'fault'.

To me, bottom line of this incident is that they should implement better control measures (this is hard) near important locations and ban people from being up there (this is easy).
Oct 20 2020 5:39PM
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ohmyglob8
Posts: 416 - Karma: 1,408
anyone who has been in the backcountry knows that avalanches are prone to happen no matter what or when it is. Ive set off slides inbounds where ski patrol bombs the hell out of it. Ive set them off in the backcountry too where the slopes didnt speak any words of avalanche and neither did the snow. Brown is a denver douche bro who just wants to do what will make him look good. It will honestly probably have a shockwave of under reporting too if they get charged. The two guys also have a great point, if the cannons are there, then they should be used, espeically after this last season where everyone and their mother knew of the persistent slap we had.
Oct 20 2020 11:35PM
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Deepskier
Posts: 3267 - Karma: 4,818
Seems easy to judge from behind a keyboard, stupid shit happens, thankfully no one was hurt, these guys did their best to be responsible and to punish that is fucking wack.
Oct 20 2020 11:45PM
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abar.
Posts: 1062 - Karma: 6,887
It's completely fucked that people would be charged for following proper backcountry procedures. It's a bullshit argument that because they were aware there was possible slide danger that makes them liable. It's Colorado, there's literally always possible slide danger. Also, it was above a service road, not I-70 itself, it's extremely unlikely that any lives would be at risk or that traffic would be disrupted. I agree that it's not the smartest place to ski and it should probably be closed to skiing in the future, but it wasn't when they went so I don't see how you can call that a criminal act. If you read the article you'd know that both the dudes had 10+ years backcountry experience, they weren't some jabronis who didn't know what they were doing.
Oct 21 2020 2:15AM
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skierman
Posts: 8064 - Karma: 4,793
Huh, I didn't know there was a Colorado in Italy.
Oct 21 2020 6:51AM
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strictlyplanks
Posts: 4 - Karma: 74
Vitiligowhat do you guys think about this? IMO it’s a prosecutor trying to abuse his power, and is a slippery slope to having less backcountry riders report avys they trigger or witness others trigger

fuck 12


[URL]https://coloradosun.com/2020/10/18/criminal-charges-avalanche-colorado[/URL]/

the boys did everything right, reported it in a professional matter and remained relatively chill. Charging them is going to cause many unreported avalanches due to the fact that people don't want to be charged
Oct 21 2020 9:53AM
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SFBv420.0
Posts: 2539 - Karma: 3,124
strictlyplanksthe boys did everything right, reported it in a professional matter and remained relatively chill. Charging them is going to cause many unreported avalanches due to the fact that people don't want to be charged

dear clueless noob if yur idea of doing everything right involves endangering infrastructure 1st responders and sar by creating large destructive avalaunches that do the latter
please stay in bounds
#footyforthebois
making winners in the play dumfuck games
win dumfuck prizes game
since instahoeing started
Oct 21 2020 10:10AM
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Granby_killdozer
Posts: 2298 - Karma: -11,017
ohmyglob8anyone who has been in the backcountry knows that avalanches are prone to happen no matter what or when it is. Ive set off slides inbounds where ski patrol bombs the hell out of it. Ive set them off in the backcountry too where the slopes didnt speak any words of avalanche and neither did the snow.

Sounds like you're making a great argument for not skiing directly above the interstate in March
Oct 21 2020 11:17AM
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fucintight
Posts: 176 - Karma: 372
all i gotta say is i agree, ACAB fuck 12
Oct 22 2020 12:26AM
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Bushdid9_11
Posts: 535 - Karma: 2,208
Whats the story with this? Has the trial happened? I'm curious to see if this Bruce brown guy has pulled his head out of his ass yet
Dec 25 2020 1:33AM
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skierman
Posts: 8064 - Karma: 4,793
Bushdid9_11Whats the story with this? Has the trial happened? I'm curious to see if this Bruce brown guy has pulled his head out of his ass yet


USE GOOGLE YOU LAZY FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT
Dec 25 2020 7:42AM
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PeppermillReno
Posts: 4748 - Karma: -563
Just so many people with a skin set up these days its out of control.

The experienced knowledgable pricks who try and show off how responsible they are when really they are too cheap to buy a lift pass at a resort are worse than gaper dad eager to drop 1.5k on evo. At least that guy is only taking a chance once a year not after every dump.

Also if its deep pow lets be honest low angle skiing kind of sucks ass. You go slow as fuck. Its just not responsible all together. 10 years ago when everyone didn't have a tour rig noone really gave a fuck but game has changed.
Dec 25 2020 10:56AM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
PeppermillRenoJust so many people with a skin set up these days its out of control.

The experienced knowledgable pricks who try and show off how responsible they are when really they are too cheap to buy a lift pass at a resort are worse than gaper dad eager to drop 1.5k on evo. At least that guy is only taking a chance once a year not after every dump.

Also if its deep pow lets be honest low angle skiing kind of sucks ass. You go slow as fuck. Its just not responsible all together. 10 years ago when everyone didn't have a tour rig noone really gave a fuck but game has changed.


This happened before Covid and they were both 'veteran' travelers.
Dec 25 2020 6:13PM
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PeppermillReno
Posts: 4748 - Karma: -563
RudyGarmischThis happened before Covid and they were both 'veteran' travelers.


Yeah.

There were too many people in these spots before covid knowledgable or not and now there will be even more.

It is what it is. I just don't think you can draw a line at this point about whos doing things right and who is being an idiot.
Dec 25 2020 6:14PM
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Bushdid9_11
Posts: 535 - Karma: 2,208
skiermanUSE GOOGLE YOU LAZY FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT


oh sorry man I should really quit talking ski talk on ski forums your totally right
Dec 27 2020 12:03AM
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